Strong programs in warm weather

Discussion in 'Internal Medicine and IM Subspecialties' started by docscience, Dec 17, 2008.

  1. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    Just an M2...no honors in any classes...just all passes (H/P/F school).
    Middle of the class.

    I am trying to get out of the COLD MIDWEST for an internal medicine residency.

    I have narrowed it down to pursue a hospitalist track/training, critical care/pulm, ID, or an internal med program with a global health component. (the global health tracts are mostly in the cold NE, but there are a few programs in TX)
    http://www.amsa.org/global/ih/resprograms.cfm
    (if anyone has an updated list please link)

    So basically good university program that is good for fellowship applications + warm weather would be great.

    I will start studying for the USMLE Step 1 this winter break and hope to get at least a 220.

    Would no honors and a 220 set me up for programs like:

    University of AZ - Tucson
    UTHS - San Antonio
    OHSU (I could perhaps bear the weather with the beautiful geography)
    University of Washington
    Baylor
    UT Houston
    USF - Tampa

    Any other non university programs in good locations with strong fellowship opportunities?

    What about UCSF? High Step 1 scores needed?

    Thanks all...and good luck during finals!
     
  2. drjitsu

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    As for good programs in warm weather:
    Texas - don't forget Scott and White (Texas A&M) and Southwestern.
    Georgia - Emory
    N. Carolina - UNC, Duke
    Kentucky
    Virginia
    Tennessee - Vanderbilt
    Missouri - Wash U (this may be too far north, but a great program)
    Tons of California programs (UCSF, UCSD, UCLA, UC Irvine, USC... etc...)

    Florida and Arizona I don't know much about, but I'm sure there are good programs.

    You can also go to Frieda or ACGME websites.

    All this being said... why are you only shooting for "at least a 220" on Step 1?? Yes you will need high board scores to be competitive at places like UCSF and U Washington as well. Aim high man... go for the best score you can get. Your grades the first two years don't mean squat. Kill Step 1, try to honor your medicine clerkship or perform well in an early AI, get a little research, some great letters, and you will be competitive for any medicine program you want.

    Anyway, I don't want to make you a gunner or anything. I just want you to be the best applicant you can when it comes time. That way interviews can be fun and not stressful. Doing well on Step 1 also makes third year more fun than stressful as well.

    Getting into the best program you can that fits you personally will also help ensure you will be able to anything you want from hospitalist to fellowship to world health, etc... Otherwise, you get cornered into being something you don't really want because your program isn't equipped to get you that fellowship or whatever. And, you never know, you may fall in love with cardiology during third year, or as late as residency.

    All I'm saying is you want to keep as many doors open as possible.

    Anyway, picking a residency by geography is a good way to do it. However, you may need to take Step 1 and get some clerkships under your belt to see how strong an applicant you'll be and then pick how many of each caliber program in a given area you feel comfortable applying to.

    I think the above list is a good mix of competitive and less so programs in warm to moderate climates.

    Hope this was some help.
     
  3. dragonfly99

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    The grades in the first 2 years don't mean diddly and probably (depending on your school) count for less than 3rd year. USMLE step 1 it's important not to do poorly but it's not the first thing medicine programs look at (unless the score is really bad).

    Of the places you mentioned, U of Washington would be the most competitive. Baylor won't be easy to get into either, but not as hard as Washington. Oregon and Seattle are cool, not warm, though.

    Surely there is a Florida program that's good? Don't know which ones...I get confused and I've never lived in Florida.

    Nobody has mentioned U of Alabama-Birmingham either...that's a well respected IM program.
     
  4. dragonfly99

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    Oops...didn't notice the OP mentioned UCSF.
    That's in the most competitive tier of IM programs. If you want to go there, better get cracking on the honors in 3rd year rotations and a 230+ or so Step 1 score.
     
  5. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    You da man! Thanks for all the information! That is so bad ass!

    I was reading another post talking about how the key to most IM residencies was AOA, but you mentioned that the first two years grades are not too important?
    I don't' think I would jive with a program where people who got honors are preferred over those who just passed anyway...grades are just a number...understanding and being a good clinician are a lot more important to me.
    Prestige doesn't matter all that much to me either.

    Most of the programs you mentioned are in the midwest!! i am trying to get out of the cold!!N. Carolina - UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Virginia are a bit too cold for me!!!
    But of course sacrifices can be made for working the rest of my life.


    USCF internal med is probably super competitive right?

    I am going to shoot for the highest score possible of course! Thanks for all the help guys!
     
  6. VandyMed2009

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    a lot of the "Top" im programs use 230 step 1 score as a screen. They also screen by Honors in your internal medicine clerkship and Honors in your AI.

    Your first 2 year grades are fine right now. No one cares what your 1st 2 years grades are, as long as you didn't fail anything. Do well on step one, and focus on kicking butt in Internal Medicine.

    If you do decide you want to go to a particular place, you could do an away elective there to increase your chances of matching.


    I would highly recommend Vanderbilt as a strong IM program with warm weather. And while its competitive, its not AS competitive as, say, UCSF.
     
  7. viostorm

    viostorm Senior Member
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    I agree with many of the posters, I'm going to limit my advice to REALLY warm places. Places like Vandy et cetera still get cold.

    * Baylor
    * Emory - good but you have to be willing to work at Grady memorial, which you should make sure you are willing to do, but I guess it gets cold here too.
    * UCSD - 72 degrees year round.

    Mayo Scottsdale, Jacksonville or CCF has Ft. Lauderdale would also be great location places.

    I personally did not like UTSW and I think there are MUCH better programs in Texas... 1 year ACGME accredidation and Parkland is broke ... you'll never do any of the latest and greatest with either meds or technology..

    Scott & White is definitely a great program, but your fellowship match would be limited to regional or Scott & White.

    UCSF is cold as hell so I'd be very suspicious of someone saying otherwise.
     
  8. TommyGunn04

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    I'd strongly urge you to consider Duke. The weather and cost of living are tough to beat here in NC, and we have an incredible global health program, not to mention a top notch internal medicine training program. It's about 65 degrees here today, in mid-December! (but we still have actual seasons too, which is a nice way to break up the monotony of Cali-like weather)

    We even have a new global health residency program! There are a number of opportunities for residents to spend 3 months in one of several overseas sites, including Australia, Tanzania, Thailand, etc.

    Check out the program's website here: http://residency.medicine.duke.edu

    Here's the Duke Global Health Institute's website, which has info about the global health residency program on it as well: http://www.dukeglobalhealth.org/index.html
     
  9. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    TommyGunn,

    How competitive is this program?

    I suppose I will PM you also or you can post on the board so everyone can learn.
    Thanks.
     
  10. TommyGunn04

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    Sorry I wasn't a bit more clear about this. To clarify, even though it's called the global health "residency" program, it's almost more like a fellowship. It's only open to people who are already doing graduate medical training at Duke. It sounded like you were most interested in IM programs that provide opportunities for international work, that's why I mentioned this, because it's a pretty unique thing. This year was actually the first year it was offered as a formal training track, and they took 1 medicine resident and 3 other folks, from OB/Gyn, psych, and neurosurgery. I don't think it was particularly competitive. It also allows you to get an MHS in global health, which is a pretty neat opportunity. As it stands now, you can't apply for this program directly out of medical school...it would need to be part of an existing residency experience at Duke. That's why I put the link to the Duke internal medicine training program website above as well.

    The global health residency program is just one example of how you could do something like this at Duke. The less involved way would be to just do an international elective. You can spend a 3 month rotation in one of the sites I mentioned earlier, such as Tanzania, Thailand, Australia (either Northern or Southern parts), or even on a Native American Reservation in the Southwest US, which technically isn't international but is certainly an "other-worldly" experience. There are other sites too, which are slipping my mind at the moment. Somewhere in the range of 8-12 Duke IM residents do an international elective each year, and generally everyone who wants to go is able to go. As you look around you'll see that Duke residents have a wider range of opportunities for international electives, and that they're less limited in number than the vast majority of programs. Everyone loves to say it's a possibility, but we clearly make it a reality for a good number of residents year.

    The medicine program at Duke is quite phenomenal and unique in many ways. It's definitely worth a serious look.
     
  11. Cards21aceking

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    #11 Cards21aceking, Dec 23, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
  12. viostorm

    viostorm Senior Member
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    Where did you get this "Internal Medicine" ranking for US News????

    They are not on "Best Hospitals" list and the rest is subspecialty?

    http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/best-hospitals/2008/07/10/best-hospitals-honor-roll.html

    This obviously my own opinion and somewhat flawed methodology, however my personal belief that the most important metric for a IM program is where can it place its residents for fellowship and % that match cards/gi. I believe that combines reptutation, intelligence/motivation of residents, research opportunities, and to some degree clinical training (one might think a fellowship program would be more or less likely to take another resident from a program if they were well trained).
     
  13. Cards21aceking

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    I agree wholeheartedly that these are very important measures for the overall productivity and prestige of the IM program. However, that sort of information isn't readily available at a lot of programs until you go and interview there and actually speak with current residents. Until then, you have to rely on some sort of objective measure that is published.

    The rankings that I was citing were from here:

    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6162629&postcount=20

    This is another list that is a bit outdated (2004), but gives an indication of the level of research being conducted within the program.

    http://report.nih.gov/award/rank/internal04.htm
     
  14. BlackNDecker

    BlackNDecker Paid da cost 2 be da bo$$
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    :laugh: This is just a list of programs...

    So SDN is now an objective, peer-reviewed reference?:laugh:

    I have no objections that UAB is a strong program, but...

    C'mon Man!
    (for those of you that watch ESPN's NFL wrap-up.)
     
  15. Danbo1957

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    Baylor College of Medicine in Houston; really warm weather and a complete IM program that has sent dozens of MDs into Cards, GI, Heme-Onc and ID...
     
  16. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    I didn't want this to become a ranking list of programs...who cares really? How many patients ask their doc where they did their residency? I suppose it is the career ladder that will be influenced by where you went to school.
    I mean, everyone finds their "niche" if they think out their career plans appropriately.

    I was just looking for some internal medicine programs that would help me achieve my goals while being warm. I HATE COLD WEATHER. I can do 40 degrees minimum...I hate it when it gets colder.

    I want to work in international medicine and most programs as per the AMSA link are in cold weather (i.e. minnesota, NYC, etc)
    I also wouldn't mind working as a hospitalist either or perhaps pursuing a fellowship after residency.

    I have yet to figure out those goals yet (as I am just an M2).

    So I have compiled this list so far for decent university based WARM INTERNAL MED PROGRAMS :laugh::

    USC
    UAB (birmingham might be too cold for my ***** ass)
    University of Arizona (looks hella warm and pretty good for fellowships)
    UCLA
    USF (Tampa looks bad ass)
    Emory (still a bit chilly)
    University of New Mexico (bit chilly but the geography makes up for it...albuquerque is a bit of a boring town though i hear)
    Texas Tech-El Paso
    UT-Galveston
    Baylor
    UT-Houston
    Texas Tech-Lubbock (boring boring town)
    UTHSC - San Antonio
    Texas A&M Scott and White


    Please contribute to the growing list or please feel free to comment on programs, life in the towns,weather, etc.
     
  17. arrhythmia7

    arrhythmia7 New Member
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    I would go to UCLA. It's the best warm weather program in the country, and a top program by any rankings. San Francisco is NOT warm (i.e. it frosts in the winter there). Furthermore, if you're single, LA is an adult playground. UCSD is a solid choice as well, as are Harbor-UCLA and Cedars/VA (very cush). If you're concerned about reputation, go with UCLA.
    Also, I don't think you need to worry about targeting programs with a "hospitalist track" when you apply. Any good traditional medicine program at a tertiary center will train you more than adequately for hospitalist medicine, and hospitalist fellowships are kind of a waste of time and ~200k.
     
  18. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    arrythmia! man i am diggin the names on SDN...first it was TMP-SMX..now it is arrythmia...ha!

    UCLA, UCSF, Baylor, etc.
    Those all seem like top programs.

    Anyone shoot out some decent stats to be able to apply to these programs?

    Step 1 > 230?
    AOA? (of course it helps, but i was thinking about the 12% of the class)
    Honoring preclinical courses?
    Honoring medicine in third year is big I take it?
     
  19. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    p.s. i see that "UCLA" has lots of internal medicine residencies per Frieda..

    anyone want to educate this AZ resident about this? I have never been to Cali and don't know much about LA....

    Any other residency programs in the warmth of cali that would be good for a hospitalist/fellowship seeker?

    Thanks again
     
  20. HMSBeagle

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    A friend of mine told me they've got great weather year round in puerto rico.
     
  21. Goober

    Goober Senior Member
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    UCSD- San Diego has the best year round weather from everywhere I have been.

    University of Hawaii- Can't beat that for warm weather!
    :thumbup:
     
  22. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    I appreciate the Puerto Rico suggestion! lol....but I don't think I would like to train there...would like to be on the mainland...PR is freaking beautiful though! And one would have to learn spanish.

    UCSD....isn't that an incredibly tough program to get into?

    Bump on the UCLA question....why are there so many listed on Frieda? Are there tons of different campuses?

    How competitive is UCSD and UCLA?
     
  23. viostorm

    viostorm Senior Member
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    I think you are missing out by not including:

    Mayo-Jacksonville, FL
    Mayo-Scottsdale, AZ
    Cleveland Clinic - Weston, FL
     
  24. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    Thanks for the extra programs viostorm!!
    Here is the updated list!

    USC
    UAB (birmingham might be too cold for my ***** ass)
    University of Arizona (looks hella warm and pretty good for fellowships)
    UCLA
    USF (Tampa looks bad ass)
    Emory (still a bit chilly)
    University of New Mexico (bit chilly but the geography makes up for it...albuquerque is a bit of a boring town though i hear)
    Texas Tech-El Paso
    UT-Galveston
    Baylor
    UT-Houston
    Texas Tech-Lubbock (boring boring town)
    UTHSC - San Antonio
    Texas A&M Scott and White

    Mayo-Jacksonville, FL
    Mayo-Scottsdale, AZ
    Cleveland Clinic - Weston, FL
     
  25. dragonfly99

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    San Antonio and Houston are both pretty hot if you like that.
    Isn't it warm in Dallas also?

    OP, isn't there a big U of Florida hospital too? (I mean other than USF...).
     
  26. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    Thanks man. I think I had the San Antonio (UTHSC) on my list already.
    Baylor (Dallas is on my list), but I will add the Methodist and Presbyterian programs...but they are not university programs

    You are right. I totally forgot about the University of Florida programs. I will add those also.

    USC
    UAB (birmingham might be too cold for my ***** ass)
    University of Arizona (looks hella warm and pretty good for fellowships)
    UCLA
    USF (Tampa looks bad ass)
    Emory (still a bit chilly)
    University of New Mexico (bit chilly but the geography makes up for it...albuquerque is a bit of a boring town though i hear)
    Texas Tech-El Paso
    UT-Galveston
    Baylor
    UT-Houston
    Texas Tech-Lubbock (boring boring town)
    UTHSC - San Antonio
    Texas A&M Scott and White
    University of Florida - Gainsville

    (non university)
    Mayo-Jacksonville, FL
    Mayo-Scottsdale, AZ
    Cleveland Clinic - Weston, FL
    Jackson Memorial - Miami
    Methodist Program - Dallas
    Presbyterian - Dallas

    Please let me know if anything is not accurate. Thanks guys.
     
  27. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    [​IMG] Houston




    [​IMG] Tucson


    I would LOVE to have a high in the 60s in December!! Sorry for the warm weather rant!
     
  28. doc20

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    Louisiana have some good programs too right? Tulane? oschner? maybe add them to list as well
     
  29. ercxi

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    The University of South Alabama has an IM program although I'm not sure of its reputation. But Mobile is a very nice city to live in.
     
  30. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    I updated the list and was thinking that we could add a few more programs and perhaps discuss the most desirable location out of them all and the most desirable program out of them all...a ranking of sorts...not meant to be a flame war.


    University of Southern Alabama - Mobile (one poster says it is a great place to live)
    USC
    UAB (birmingham might be too cold for my ***** ass)
    University of Arizona (looks hella warm and pretty good for fellowships)
    UCLA
    USF (Tampa looks bad ass)
    Emory (still a bit chilly)
    University of New Mexico (bit chilly but the geography makes up for it...albuquerque is a bit of a boring town though i hear)
    Texas Tech-El Paso
    UT-Galveston
    Baylor
    UT-Houston
    Texas Tech-Lubbock (boring boring town)
    UTHSC - San Antonio
    Texas A&M Scott and White
    University of Florida - Gainsville
    Tulane University- Louisiana

    (non university)
    Mayo-Jacksonville, FL
    Mayo-Scottsdale, AZ
    Cleveland Clinic - Weston, FL
    Jackson Memorial - Miami
    Methodist Program - Dallas
    Presbyterian - Dallas
     
  31. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    p.s. i am not sure how the programs in louisiana are doing post katrina
    anyone care to contribute?

    also anyone have an answer to the UCLA question? are there many campuses? ( i am an AZ med student and don't know sorry)
    do you apply to all of them?
     
  32. BearCat

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    is it ok with you if the place snows? Lubbock can be hot in the summer, however is freezing during the winter months, and it snows. So does El Paso, it snows about once or twice a year, and is only 3 hours away from skiing in New Mexico. Lubbock has a population of about 200,000, it's very affordable living, good traffic, having Texas Tech University in town means lot of various culture events coming through. El Paso, is right across from Juarez, and hasn't been getting the best press lately due to the crime in Juarez, but combined together, it's quite a big metropolitan area.
    Temple TX is a much smaller town, however it's only an hour from Austin, which is the greatest city in Texas. Scott and White also is a very nice hospital with a strong IM program.

    your criteria - does it only include weather and program? how about cost of living? since both UAB and UCLA may be great IM program and in warm cities, the difference of the cost of living between the 2 cities is night and day.


     
  33. sluggo

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    University of Florida has a great program in great weather!
     
  34. tripleJ

    tripleJ Member
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    If you are going to AZCOM you will have to cross quite a few off your list.
     
  35. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    Man you bring up some great points! I don't mind snow too much...just wouldn't be able to handle the snows of the midwest and northeast...i don't want to be scraping my car windshield or slipping on ice!!
    I don't consider Lubbock as freezing as the average high is around 50-60 degrees in the winter (though the low is in the mid to upper 20s) I think I could maybe handle that...

    I thought I added those texas programs...but I need to redo the programs in the "sun belt" i suppose.


    That is something I did not mention. Who doesn't want to live in a place with a low cost of living (especially if you will have looming debt like me)? Perhaps it won't be an issue for some, but cost of living is definitely a point to look at.
    However, I don't want to sacrifice culture and opportunities. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money right? (perhaps not in this economy)

    So I guess I would say hot, SUNNY weather > program strength > cost of living
    A university program would be nice as I might be interested in doing a fellowship in critical care or heme/onc

    Another poster pointed out that I forgot University of Florida -Gainesville...will add playa..thanks..sorry i forgot it
     
  36. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    Which programs don't consider DO's at all do you think? Thanks
     
  37. tripleJ

    tripleJ Member
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    UCSF, Duke, U of A, Mayo-Scotts, to name a few. Unfortunately, many University programs will look down on DOs. Check the "current residents" page of any programs online- if you don't see any DOs- could be an uphill battle. (please, no n=1 retorts)
     
  38. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    U of A's page has quite a few DOs and FMGs.
     
  39. tripleJ

    tripleJ Member
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  40. MrTee

    MrTee Senior Member
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    UCLA might be a tough interview to get unless you have very strong clinical grades and step 1 >230. I don't know how many DO's they take per year, if any. But if you need to live in LA, and position yourself well for a fellowship afterwards, that is the program to go to.

     
  41. MrTee

    MrTee Senior Member
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    I saw quite a few interns who came from the OP's medical school, so yes, there are definitely DO's there.

     
  42. docscience

    docscience AZCOM (Junior Member)
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    sorry dude, you are right...i clicked on pg-3 i think and saw a DO on the list
    i will have to call the program up or ask my AZCOM "advisors"

    i will try to "rank" the programs to my knowledge in a few days
     
  43. MrTee

    MrTee Senior Member
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    Oops, I was mistaken...AZCOM is not the same as University of Arizona College of Medicine...you're right.
     
  44. CANE4LIFE

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    removed
     
    #44 CANE4LIFE, Jan 11, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
  45. ResidentMD

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    How easy or difficult is it for graduates from Texas (Baylor, UTSW, UT-Houston) to move to the West or East coast for fellowships (lets take Cards and GI, because there is lesser competition below that).
     
  46. obiwan

    obiwan Junior Member
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    In Texas, UTSW is by far the top program for IM with baylor a distant second (baylor still has a strong program but they have declined according to my school's various attendings) and so UTSW definately has the reputation with coastal ivory towers... its been mentioned several times on various threads on SDN how program directors from big programs think very highly of UTSW
     
  47. ResidentMD

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    The interesting thing I later found out was, not a lot of people apply to UTSW because its considered a very malignant program (not 'not cush' malignant, but some posters have described it as "residency being hell"...)

    Could you elaborate specifically about what your attendings have said about Baylor? Anything about UT Houston? And their reputation on the "coastal ivory towers" (well put ;) )?
     
  48. Frugal Traveler

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    I have heard UTSW's program referred to as "cowboy." I do not know if this was used in a pejorative sense or not. I don't know much about Texas except about the Alamo because it was the main impetus of a Pee Wee Herman movie.
     
  49. drfunktacular

    drfunktacular ANA ≠ SLE
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    UTSW's program is rough. Certainly, anyone in TX should interview there, but I think you'll get a feel pretty quickly on your interview day whether their program is for you or not. It was most assuredly NOT for me.

    If when you read "Pulmonary" on your schedule you think Pulm HTN and MICU rather than PFTs and pulm consults, then UTSW might be for you.
     

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