Struggling BS/MD Student PLEASE HELP :'(

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hmshstdms5

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I'm a student in the BS/MD PLME at Brown. I've been having a horrid time with my academics so far, having finished my 4th semester at a 3.31 overall GPA. This past semester I failed organic chemistry (per Brown's policy, this shows up on my internal transcript but not on my external transcript). So I'm going to take it again at Brown, but I want to know 1) what tips you have for excelling in orgo; 2) how, as a BS/MD student having this no-credit on my transcript will affect my residency applications; 3) is this a predictor that I'm not cut out for medicine? I mean there are so many other kids in the PLME who seem to be doing waayyyy better than I have been, and there are non PLMEs who also are. This is all I know and all I've ever wanted to do with my life. How do I turn this around?! Someone please help a student with absolutely no self-confidence left :(

Just to clarify, I'm not kicked out of the program, so this is definitely a question about my future. Thanks for the help.
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Maybe you should become a noctor instead.
 
I doubt how you do in Orgo is a predictor of success in medical school and it certainly has will not determine what residency you'll get. Just focus on improving from last time. A b or even a c will suffice. Plenty of premeds do less than stellar in orgo and still move on to med school ( I got a C in one orgo and a W, and then two Bs) and fabulous residencies. I'm sure brown is harder than other places. Of just focus on keeping your grades up so you don't get kicked out from the bs/md program. Your already halfway there. Your so lucky to have a guaranteed spot in med school.

As for how to succeed in Orgo. I have none because I didn't do that well. I tried to mostly memorize and learn a few patterns. I recommend going to TA hours or meeting with the professor if you have time. That always helped me get As in classes and understand the material. Just didn't/couldn't make the time for it when I was an undergrad.
 
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It was my dream to be a PLME student at Brown. I didn't get into Brown or PLME. :/ Maybe I'll stand a chance at getting into Alpert!

As far as orgo goes, look for patterns. Understand why reactions happen and make sure you have the basic concepts behind orgo (resonance, acidity/basicity, nucleophilicity, electrophilicity etc) drilled into your head. If you try to get through it with rote memorization, you're gonna have a rough time. Understand the concepts and apply them. For me it also helped to use the book only as a reference and to focus on lecture as much as possible.
 
hmshstdms5 said:
I'm a student in the BS/MD PLME at Brown. I've been having a horrid time with my academics so far, having finished my 4th semester at a 3.31 overall GPA. This past semester I failed organic chemistry (per Brown's policy, this shows up on my internal transcript but not on my external transcript). So I'm going to take it again at Brown, but I want to know 1) what tips you have for excelling in orgo; 2) how, as a BS/MD student having this no-credit on my transcript will affect my residency applications; 3) is this a predictor that I'm not cut out for medicine? I mean there are so many other kids in the PLME who seem to be doing waayyyy better than I have been, and there are non PLMEs who also are. This is all I know and all I've ever wanted to do with my life. How do I turn this around?! Someone please help a student with absolutely no self-confidence left :(

Just to clarify, I'm not kicked out of the program, so this is definitely a question about my future. Thanks for the help.
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This will not affect you at all. Like how medical schools ignore high school, residency applications will ignore undergrad. So don't worry.
 
You failed a class but they keep it hush hush?

That's dirty.
 
organic chemistry as a second language is a great resource for more problems, simple explanations, etc. I would highly recommend buying it. Another tip I have is to go to your prof's/TA's office hours, not only will they give you other ways of thinking of topics that you are struggling with, they will see that you're making an effort.
 
DoktorO said:
Virtually every institution lets you retake any class that you get less than a B- in for a clean new grade.
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Yeah...no. In most cases, if it even shows up on your external transcript, AMCAS will require that both the original grade and retake be listed, and they will be counted as separate classes. In this case, if it's not on the external transcript, I'm assuming nobody would ever know. I know my school definitely lists both the original and retake grade on your official (external) transcript.
 
DoktorO said:
Virtually every institution lets you retake any class that you get less than a B- in for a clean new grade.
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I'm not so sure this is true. At my school, if you get a C- or better in a course, you're not allowed to retake it.
 
I agree with PanRoasted. Most colleges will at least acknowledge that you took the course twice and this will tip off AMCAS that they will need to ask you for the grade from your first attempt at the class. Also my university (and many, many others) lists both the original grade and the retake grade on the transcript. This business about a retake not appearing on an external transcript seems fishy and a bit unfair. Of course college grading systems have never been fair or consistent.

To the OP: In my opinion, the F in Orgo is a big warning sign. Orgo is in the premed curriculum mainly because it is hard. It requires a lot of rote memorization (some concepts too, but still mostly memorization) just as most med school courses will. That F in Orgo means that as of now you probably don't have what it takes to tackle med school coursework. But remember this: F grades usually aren't about knowledge or aptitude. They are about effort. I would guess that nearly all Brown students have the aptitude for an A. Whether or not they have the work ethic is another question.

You still have two more years ahead of you. You can make the change. Promise yourself that you are going to learn how to study right, that you are going to put in the hours, and that you are going to get an A in your retake.
 
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Same at my institution. Both are reported on your transcript.And you should report both to AMCAS. You can only retake lower than a C- for a letter grade at my school. It doesn't matter in his situation though as he has a guaranteed spot at brown med. I'm not surprised if some Ivys or elite universities grade inflate. Otherwise I imagine there would be way fewer people succeeding getting into med school etc. It's not fair but I guess the Ivys think they are entitled to do whatever to get their students to succeed and keep their prestige.
 
I thought Brown BS/MD students could take everything P/F... just do that.
 
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Right. But OP needs to pass them at least. Plus, there is a GPA requirement too, I believe.
 
Euxox said:
I agree with PanRoasted. Most colleges will at least acknowledge that you took the course twice and this will tip off AMCAS that they will need to ask you for the grade from your first attempt at the class. Also my university (and many, many others) lists both the original grade and the retake grade on the transcript. This business about a retake not appearing on an external transcript seems fishy and a bit unfair. Of course college grading systems have never been fair or consistent.
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It's not to "tip off AMCAS" that colleges do this; it's a requirement. If you take a course twice, you need to list it twice. That's generally why, if you retake a class at all, that you better get an A. Having said that, I'm not sure it's exactly ethical that Brown doesn't include the failed course on your external transcript. Presumably, you won't need to use AMCAS and be applying to med school since you can stay at Brown.

OP: Orgo is one of the buggest weeder classes there is. It's here where you really have to learn to learn. And it's here where you really just have to put in the hours of study to understand. It's there for you; you just have to want it. A few tips I learned along the way: don't get behind! It's cumulative, and what you are introduced in one class, you'll have to apply that in the next. Be sure you keep up. And, just like any challenging math: practice, practice, practice. Yes, you also need to be really good at memorizing too. And if all else fails, refer to Khan Academy on a regular basis. The more times you see a concept, the more comfortable you will become.
 
learn the orgo fundamentals cold, don't just memorize. do practice problems ad nauseum. go to get help from profs and other students, even tutors. orgo will not be a predictor of how you are cut out for medicine. However, what will be telling is how you address your failure and improve your situation. If you give up at the first failure, you should question how badly you want it in the first place. If you want it bad enough, this will merely be a bump in the road.
 
Guh, getting behind in either orgo or biochem is probably the worst mistake you can make....it just becomes a real mess. A lot of well intentioned, good students get Cs and Ds in orgo/biochem because they skipped out on studying for a couple lectures.
 
Plenty of PLMEs don't do so well in Orgo. Brown's orgo is known as being extremely difficult. I didn't pass the first time either, and I got an A the second time around and got on with my life. This might be something to worry about if you were thinking about applying out, but it really isn't a big deal if you're planning on continuing on to Alpert. Just talk to your PLME advisor - I'm sure he/she will tell you the same thing. Feel free to PM me.
 
I didn't even know there were Ivies that still allowed retakes. Work hard and consider yourself lucky and spoiled by Brown's liberalness, then. At HYP here, there's no such thing.
 
Lucky Louie said:
It's not to "tip off AMCAS" that colleges do this; it's a requirement. If you take a course twice, you need to list it twice.
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Right, but if your transcript doesn't indicate that you retook a class, then you could lie about it on the AMCAS and no one would ever know. It's unethical, but I'm sure it has been done before.
 
hmshstdms5 said:
I'm a student in the BS/MD PLME at Brown. I've been having a horrid time with my academics so far, having finished my 4th semester at a 3.31 overall GPA. This past semester I failed organic chemistry (per Brown's policy, this shows up on my internal transcript but not on my external transcript). So I'm going to take it again at Brown, but I want to know 1) what tips you have for excelling in orgo; 2) how, as a BS/MD student having this no-credit on my transcript will affect my residency applications; 3) is this a predictor that I'm not cut out for medicine? I mean there are so many other kids in the PLME who seem to be doing waayyyy better than I have been, and there are non PLMEs who also are. This is all I know and all I've ever wanted to do with my life. How do I turn this around?! Someone please help a student with absolutely no self-confidence left :(

Just to clarify, I'm not kicked out of the program, so this is definitely a question about my future. Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

Wait, if you were excellent enough as a high school applicant to get into PLME, how are you doing badly in your classes, much less at the most grade-inflated institution of all the Ivies?

My friend applied to that program, didn't get in, but is acing her science classes there. :|
 
Aerus said:
Wait, if you were excellent enough as a high school applicant to get into PLME, how are you doing badly in your classes, much less at the most grade-inflated institution of all the Ivies?

My friend applied to that program, didn't get in, but is acing her science classes there. :|
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+1 for the grade inflation comment. I thought my Ivy was bad...
 
OP, I bought a huge piece of bath board ( just like a white board) for 15 bucks at home depot. It covered almost an entire wall at my house. My and one of my orgo classmates would take turns making up practice problems for each other on that board a couple of times a week. It really helped to have something like that and saved A LOT of paper. Practice is key. Make sure you are keeping up with each topic...they build on each other.
 
I know someone who failed a course in a BS/MD program in cali but still continued into medical school. It's not the end of the world. Organic chemistry concepts are very low yield in the medical school curriculum and they won't be tested on. Ever (unless your PhD lecturer biochem teacher was a orgochem background).

Get a tutor or some friend who really understand organic chemistry that can teach you and not confuse you.

Looking back 5 years ago (holy crap, it's been so long), I did tons of practice problems and that helped me ace all my orgo classes.
 
I think I became over-committed to my extracurriculars, just because I'm involved in clubs and groups that I feel at home in. Obviously that's the worst thing to happen to me. I think I need a step back. Did you take orgo again at Brown over the summer?
 
amfvm said:
Plenty of PLMEs don't do so well in Orgo. Brown's orgo is known as being extremely difficult. I didn't pass the first time either, and I got an A the second time around and got on with my life. This might be something to worry about if you were thinking about applying out, but it really isn't a big deal if you're planning on continuing on to Alpert. Just talk to your PLME advisor - I'm sure he/she will tell you the same thing. Feel free to PM me.
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I think I just became over-committed to my extracurriculars, and obviously that hasn't been good for me. Did you take orgo at Brown again in the summer?
 
Aerus said:
Wait, if you were excellent enough as a high school applicant to get into PLME, how are you doing badly in your classes, much less at the most grade-inflated institution of all the Ivies?

My friend applied to that program, didn't get in, but is acing her science classes there. :|
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There is grade inflation in many classes at Brown, including a ton of humanities classes, but orgo at Brown is incredibly difficult.

OP, you probably just have to study more and study smarter for orgo. Did you go to many of the problem sessions offered by the professors or by TAs? When I was took the class, there were 4-5 of these sessions each week, and attending them regularly was an enormous help. Shoot for going to one or two a week, or more if you are ambitious.
 
Strudel19 said:
How did you not get kicked out.
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Brown doesn't kick people out. Didn't you know? None of the Ivies really do.

Unless you fail a certain percentage of your credits, which I assume OP has not yet done so.
 
inycepoo said:
Brown doesn't kick people out. Didn't you know? None of the Ivies really do.

Unless you fail a certain percentage of your credits, which I assume OP has not yet done so.
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Hah, I know here (not Brown), if you fail a class, you're strongly suggested to take a leave of absence for a semester, so I can sort of agree with the not kicking people out. Do schools really do that anymore, though? I would find it pretty hard to fail so many classes to get kicked out if you're reasonably trying.
 
inycepoo said:
Brown doesn't kick people out. Didn't you know? None of the Ivies really do.

Unless you fail a certain percentage of your credits, which I assume OP has not yet done so.
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So, the reason why I asked which Ivy you go to is because you were writing about grade inflation at the Ivy league and brought up your own school; therefore, since you were making a comparison, I thought it was relevant to know what you were comparing. Seems pretty logical to me...

This last statement you made doesn't make much sense to me. Ivy's don't really "kick" people out, but if you fail a certain percentage of credits they will? As opposed to schools that do what, exactly? Dismiss them after failing one course? I highly doubt there are a large number of schools, if any, that dismiss students after failing one course, regardless if they are Ivy's or not, but I could be wrong. If you find something please let me know.

http://www.college.columbia.edu/bulletin/universitypolicies.php

http://yalecollege.yale.edu/content/academic-penalties-and-restrictions

http://www.brown.edu/academics/grad...demic Code & Rules of Non-Conduct 2010-11.pdf

http://static.fas.harvard.edu/registrar/ugrad_handbook/current/chapter5/ad_board.html

There's no reason to kick someone out for failing ONE course. Usually, from my limited understanding, schools will place these students in probation, and if not improved, they will be dismissed; this extends past Ivy institutions.
 
Sophocles said:
So, the reason why I asked which Ivy you go to is because you were writing about grade inflation at the Ivy league and brought up your own school; therefore, since you were making a comparison, I thought it was relevant to know what you were comparing. Seems pretty logical to me...

This last statement you made doesn't make much sense to me. Ivy's don't really "kick" people out, but if you fail a certain percentage of credits they will? As opposed to schools that do what, exactly? Dismiss them after failing one course? I highly doubt there are a large number of schools, if any, that dismiss students after failing one course, regardless if they are Ivy's or not, but I could be wrong. If you find something please let me know.

http://www.college.columbia.edu/bulletin/universitypolicies.php

http://yalecollege.yale.edu/content/academic-penalties-and-restrictions

http://www.brown.edu/academics/grad...demic Code & Rules of Non-Conduct 2010-11.pdf

http://static.fas.harvard.edu/registrar/ugrad_handbook/current/chapter5/ad_board.html

There's no reason to kick someone out for failing ONE course. Usually, from my limited understanding, schools will place these students in probation, and if not improved, they will be dismissed; this extends past Ivy institutions.
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I took OP to be referring to being kicked out of the PLME program. My response was a sarcastic response alluding to a common stereotype often heard in the press and sites like CC that Ivies don't punish their students for doing poorly. Has to do with the whole grade inflation and meritocracy thing brought up before

You need to calm down. This is SDN. If you can't take even the tiniest amount of trolling, I don't understand how you put up with this website.
 
DoktorO said:
Virtually every institution lets you retake any class that you get less than a B- in for a clean new grade.
Click to expand...

Not unheard of (but only when I got to SDN, that is), but I guarantee you it is not "virtually every institution." Seems rather blasphemous to me, even if the previous grade is shown on transcripts. Also, sounds rather risky to me. How would you explain a retake that's not an A or A- grade? Something like that could be viewed as even worse than only doing poorly the first time around.
 
inycepoo said:
I took OP to be referring to being kicked out of the PLME program. My response was a sarcastic response alluding to a common stereotype often heard in the press and sites like CC that Ivies don't punish their students for doing poorly. Has to do with the whole grade inflation and meritocracy thing brought up before

You need to calm down. This is SDN. If you can't take even the tiniest amount of trolling, I don't understand how you put up with this website.
Click to expand...

Yeah because trolling is tolerated on SDN....
 
Agent B said:
Yeah because trolling is tolerated on SDN....
Click to expand...

If I get banned for making a quip about Ivies, so be it. But hopefully the mods have better things to do.
 
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