Struggling with when to apply. Please help.

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msnred

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First off I want to thank you guys in advance for your help. Even though I'm new to the SDN community I am very impressed with the quality of the answers and the maturity of everyone here. Though, I guess that's to be expected from America's future health professionals.

The goal of this thread is to determine whether or not I should apply in June of 2012 or 2013. I apologize if its long, but I want to paint a clear picture for you guys.

I graduated from the Schreyers Honors College at Penn State in December 2010 with a degree in Bioengineering (concentration in chemical engineering). My overall GPA was 3.86. I graduated with "High Distinction" (top 6% of the college of engineering) and produced an original undergraduate thesis on the molecular biomechanics of kinesin motors. I am also a member of the Tau Beta Pi engineering honors society.

I was on the boxing team for 2 years training about 15 hrs/week and I was president of my 90 man fraternity in addition to other leadership positions.

I wanted to take some time off before grad school and work (probably apply in June of 2013), but I haven't been able to get my foot in the door and find a full time job. I've been employed as a part-time private tutor for a while now. The time has come where I have to decide to stick to the plan or try to move the timeline up. For the most part I didn't consider dental school (I always thought of myself as a pre-med), but from all the research I've done dental school seems like the right choice for me.

I calculate my sGPA to be 3.88 from the classes below. The classes are as follows.

Calc 2 - A-
Calc 3 - A
Diff Eq - A

Phys Mech - A-
Phys E&M - A

Cell bio - A
Physiology - A-
Physiology lab - A

Ochem 1 - A
Ochem 2 - A
Ochem Lab - A-

I have two WP's (withdrew passing). One is for E&M honors level spring of freshman year. I was probably going to get a B- and my perfectionism wouldn't allow it at the time (I got a 4.0 that semester). I took that and DiffEQ at the local branch campus over the summer after freshman year. The second WP was for Ochem Lab spring of my senior year. My workload was way too high and I had some personal issues (sick in-house family member) and I didn't want my GPA to suffer. I went back in the following Fall as a part time student and took that course solo. I missed an A by a hundredth of a point due to the previously mentioned family member dying and me spending a lot of time traveling back home. My head just wasn't in the game.

I got AP credit for Calc 1 and for the 8 credits of inorganic chem. I also have a molecular and cellular bioengineering course which I think would likely count as biochemistry (A in that class). I'm not sure if my other engineering classes would affect my GPA, but they were mostly As and A-s with a B+ or two thrown in there.

After some research I've come to see that the AP credits for the inorganic chem would disqualify me from applying at quite a few schools (including Temple and Pitt, which is bad considering I'm a PA resident).

I see myself as having two possible plans, both of which are very open to suggestions/modifications.

1. To apply by June 2012. Take the two inorganic chem classes and lab in the spring and first summer session of this year at the local PSU branch campus, maybe with a microbiology or biochemistry class to boot. While doing this I'll shadow a dentist and study for the DATs and try to get some more volunteer work done (I have 85 hours at the local hospital from college). I will almost definitely get A's in the chem classes and I suspect I'll do well on the DATs.

2. To apply by June 2013. Move back to PSU main campus and take the chem/bio classes in the spring and summer. I'd also plan on enrolling in an EMT course and get my certification. I could also reconnect with some professors and do some more research or TA or whatever. I would have to work at least part time (waiting tables, delivery driver, etc...) in order to help pay for rent/food/living. I could probably get some shadowing/volunteering done, but I wouldn't be able to study for the DATs. I could then move back home in August, work as an EMT, volunteer, shadow and study for the DATs until the next application process.

Plan 1 allows me to move my timeline up and get my life started, but I am concerned about getting the prereqs done before even submitting the application. My prof letters and older prereqs will be more recent. I wouldn't have as much volunteering or shadowing time as plan 2, but it would be sufficient. My DAT score would probably be about the same, but maybe a little lower. I could start studying tomorrow if this is the plan.

Plan 2 gives me more time to do everything and take my classes at main campus, but I worry about my letters being a little out of date or my prereqs getting old (which seems to be an issue at a couple of schools). I could also do more research and take some more upper level classes.

Are my concerns for plan 2 valid? Do I have to worry about my college professors letters being considered "out of date" or my freshman and sophomore prereqs expiring? Is it worth it to try to perfect everything or should I just get the ball rolling and apply in June of 2012? Would being a few weeks late in the application process be a big deal if it comes to that?

I'm really struggling with this decision and I need to make my mind up soon before it is made up for me. I'd like to get into a good dental school and eventually specialize so I can use the engineering side of my brain (maybe ortho?). Can you guys offer any advice? Am I over thinking this way too much? I really really appreciate it.
 
I will go with plan 1 man.. only because you have a very high GPA and it will show that you can handle a full summer course load when you apply. Im pretty sure you will get the A's in gen chem and probably beast micro, so why not apply...

I would first do your research on the DAT exam so you know what to expect when studying for it. you should set up a DAT study schedule during your intercession so that after your done taking your summer courses youll have some direction and plan on what to do next.

Try to do some shadowing with different dental specialties, and some volunteering in a dental related environment and im sure you wont have a problem getting an acceptance next year Dec.

Plan 2: I think is just not worth it, no time to study for the DAT is "no bueno"..
Although working as an EMT would make you a diverse applicant, i think it would help more so when applying to med school than dental school. imo.

Best of Luck!
 
I appreciate your quick and thorough response, though I think you may have misunderstood the second option. I would have a lot more time to study for the DAT because I would be putting it off for a year. Do you still think the first plan is the way to go?

If I go with plan 1 I would probably take chem and maybe microbio (7 credits total) in the spring while studying for the DATs (I'll have 2 months of study time in by then) and trying to shadow/volunteer. Ill probably quit my job to do this. Ill take the second chem course in the first summer session. I'll do my best to get my application in on time in June 2012. Think its a good plan?
 
you will get in
 
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Apply to DS in spring of 2012. You are going to crush the DAT with your history of good grades in tough classes. Take gen chem 1 this spring and gen chem 2 this summer or next fall. It will be 2014 when you start Dschool if you wait, which will seem like a really long time from now when you are qualified to be in DS a year sooner.
 
I feel your pain...I was a post-bac non-traditional student trying to figure out the best way to expedite the process but still maintain high grades and get a good DAT score. From what you have posted, here is what I would suggest:

Spring 2012: Take Gen Chem 1 w/lab and Bio 1 w/lab and see if you can grab Micro while gathering resources for the DAT

First Summer Session: Full time study for the DAT (PAT, OChem, QR, Reading, Bio 1/Gen Chem 1 stuff) and finish your application/letter of rec etc. --> application will be submitted w/out DAT score July 1st (still very early)

Second Summer Session: Take Bio 2 w/lab and Gen Chem 2 w/lab if possible

Fall 2012: Take DAT three weeks after done with second summer session. Bio 2 and Gen Chem will be fresh in your head, and you will have already prepped for all the other sections in the first summer session. After rocking the DAT, fax your score sheet to your schools waiting for your application so they receive them that day...approx. Sept. 10.

With this schedule you will have maximized all areas of your application without being late in the application process. I know lots of people who did this same schedule (apply early, get verified and mailed to schools in July but took DAT late August, early Sept.) and have multiple interviews with lower stats than you.

This schedule will also give you a lot of time to study for the DAT and take the classes you still need for the DAT and dental school. All of these science classes will be fresh in your mind and will minimize your study time and maximize your score. Case in point, I took the DAT the summer after finishing Bio 1/2 and Ochem 1/2 and got a 26 and 27 respectively. Its just sound planning to take the DAT right after the classes end...

One thing that I ran into with my schedule was just figuring out the sequence of classes and when they actually were available. Bio 2 and Gen Chem 2 may only be held summer session 2 at your school, and may be overlapping.

Anyway you seem like a smart kid who can figure it all out...Good Luck with everything and let me know if you have any questions!
 
I vote plan 1. Plan 2 seems like you are just really stretching things out. I see that you'll be taking gen chem, but you also need the intro biology series. Some d schools require intro bio classes even if you have taken upper division bio so the physio/lab you have listed will not count. Also it is important to shadow a dentist but you don't have to spend hundreds of hours. Some schools only havr a minimum of 30-50 hours. I suggest you find out about the schools you're interested in.

If you could take intro bio series, g chem series, shadow for atleast 50 hours, get letters of rec, and take the DATs by June... Or even till July 2012, you have a great shot.
 
Thanks twentytwelve and destinedserious. I am a little confused by your responses though. Maybe I wasn't clear. I shouldnt have written cell biology, it was just called Biology (BIOL 110). It is the first biology course science majors have to take. Also, I took human physiology (BIOL 141). These two are supposed to fulfill the requirements for biology for med school according to PSU, unless somehow dental school is different. I was questioning about whether to take an upper level bio or maybe a microbiology course for some diversity. What are your thoughts?
 
Yea I thought the same thing before I applied, but I asked about it and I was told Anatomy/Physiology would not fulfill Bio II requirement.
 
Anatomy/Phys will not count for the majority of dental schools. Check out the dental school's websites to see what their requirements are, or call the school to see if it will count. Keep in mind that even if it does count, it won't hurt to take a Bio 2 class...it will look good on a transcript to see more bio courses and only help you on the DAT.

Make sure you do your research on DENTAL SCHOOLS and not med schools to base what classes you take. Most requirements are the same, but some differ...for example...some schools require BioChem...
 
anatomy/phys will not count for the majority of dental schools. Check out the dental school's websites to see what their requirements are, or call the school to see if it will count. Keep in mind that even if it does count, it won't hurt to take a bio 2 class...it will look good on a transcript to see more bio courses and only help you on the dat.

Make sure you do your research on dental schools and not med schools to base what classes you take. Most requirements are the same, but some differ...for example...some schools require biochem...

+1
 
Go with plan 1. Admissions are only getting more competitive every year. If you want to apply in the summer of 2012 you will need to either plan to take the chems next spring or summer. As for your "classes to boot", I would take microbiology and biochem. Those classes will help you gain the most attention on an application, not to mention that they are downright requirements for a lot of school.

Also, your GPA is already great...there is no reason to move back up to State College. Courses at a branch campus will suffice...it seems like you will ace them.

Good luck. Make haste!
 
You don't need to have all prereqs finished by the time of application. So I recommend applying in June 2012. You only need to finish all your prereqs before you enroll in dental school.
You got good grades and surely you have a good solid foundations of ochem. With a fast review in ochem and bio, and getting your genchem now you should be good to test for DAT in the summer soon after your application is done. So get good grades this year, apply for school early June, prep and take the DAT early to mid July and by the time they verify your grades and distribute your application (takes about 6 weeks if you apply early June), your DAT scores should show up on AASAS too. Bamm, all done!
 
Also, your calc AP courses probably won't count. Don't worry...only a handful of schools would need that anyway as an absolute requirement. And they may even accept the AP credits.
 
I would most definitely go with plan 1. I'm a bioengineering major myself who's applying this cycle. I graduated this past May and WAS planning on working for a year or so, but I couldn't find a "bioengineering" job either. I decided my priority is getting into dental school, so I stopped looking for a job and concentrated on the application itself.
You will most definitely get in with your GPA and all your research/extracurriculars (assuming you'll do well on DAT, which I think you will). My GPA was wayyyy lower. I think the most important thing is start shadowing ASAP and think about your recommendation letters. These things take time! The DAT you can study for 1-2 months and take it with ease. The prereqs are no problem either. You can finish them even after you get accepted.
So just apply early on 2012 with shadowing, DAT, and recommendations ready, then you're set. Good luck man!
 
i've got AP credits but i got interviews at those 2 schools so just apply to them
 
The way I see it is that we have our whole lives to dedicate to dental school and our carreers. If you have ambissions that you wish to accomplish then do so before applying! Why not??
 
Dantemac,
Yea i figured thats the case, but with the calculus I have Calc 3 and DiffEQ in addition to Calc 2. I have zero taken credits for inorganic chem. I don't see how the calc AP credits could possibly be an issue.

Everyone else,
You are awesome. Thanks for all the help.
 
Dantemac,
Yea i figured thats the case, but with the calculus I have Calc 3 and DiffEQ in addition to Calc 2. I have zero taken credits for inorganic chem. I don't see how the calc AP credits could possibly be an issue.

Everyone else,
You are awesome. Thanks for all the help.

Yeah don't worry about the calcs, worry about your biochem and microbio (requirements for some schools). Taking those classes will open up many application possibilities.

I was in the same position with you, I thought a gap year would lean to gainful employment and peace of mind knowing I was better prepared for dental school. It actually just turned into a nerve-racking, regretful, wait game. Definitely apply ASAP.
 
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