Student Adcom Member - Ask me anything!

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StudentAdcom

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Made this throwaway account because I've written all over the application threads for the school that I attend. I'm currently a second year student at a U.S. allopathic school and member of our adcom - AMA!
 
How much power do student interviewers really have? (How much do they actually affect your admission decision?)
 
How much power do student interviewers really have? (How much do they actually affect your admission decision?)
We don't have student interviewers at our school, so I can't really speak to this. On the committee, my vote carries equal weight to the rest of the adcom members, though.
 
Account created today offering blanket advice on an admissions process. Very nice.
I gave my reason for my account being created today. I've utilized your advice once or twice in the past, @mimelim. I just figured I may as well share my experiences, having gone from an applicant to an adcom member in a relatively short period of time. I have no intention of overstepping my boundaries or offering advice beyond my experiences to date. I've made clear that this is an AMA, not an advice forum. I'll leave that to the career adcom members that have posted on here thousands of times.
 
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What is something you look for when you vote for a candidate? Can you share a story (without revealing the candidate too much)?
 
Are you at a state or private school?
 
What is something you look for when you vote for a candidate? Can you share a story (without revealing the candidate too much)?
I try to get a feel for whether someone was merely completing the "checklist" or if they actually showed some passion for the things that they were involved in. An applicant that I came across put down 10 different organizations that they were part of, but didn't show much initiative in any single one in terms of actually getting involved and building something from it. You can be involved in a ton of things superficially, but medicine is not the type of career that you can be superficially involved in.

If I come across a candidate that has committed 1000s of hours to something particular (ie. research, scribing, or even an organization), it doesn't bother me that they might be missing out on one of the classic unwritten requirements. They were passionate about something, and really immersed themselves in that commitment.
 
I gave my reason for my account being created today. I've utilized your advice once or twice in the past, @mimelim. I just figured I may as well share my experiences, having gone from an applicant to an adcom member in a relatively short period of time. I have no intention of overstepping my boundaries or offering advice beyond my experiences to date. I've made clear that this is an AMA, not an advice forum. I'll leave that to the career adcom members that have posted on here thousands of times.
Show us proof so we know it's real.
 
Show us proof so we know it's real.
I'm not really sure how to do that while remaining anonymous or without disclosing my affiliation, neither of which I'd like to, or can, do. If you don't trust me, then feel free to ignore the thread.
 
Do you find your opinion on specific applicants to often be drastically different from the rest of the presumably older/more traditional adcom members? Or does your opinion generally lineup with theirs?

What do you consider to be your most important "value add" to the adcom?

Having seen both sides of the application process, which side has it harder? The adcom side slugging through hundreds or even thousands of apps or being an applicant hoping to be one of the people picked out of the adcom's pile?

Strangest (non-identifiable) thing you've seen on an amcas app?
 
Made this throwaway account because I've written all over the application threads for the school that I attend. I'm currently a second year student at a U.S. allopathic school and member of our adcom - AMA!

What's your favorite color?
 
State school.

How does an OOS applicant best appeal to your school's mission? I know its not believable for say a new yorker or californian to tell a rural state school that they want to live and practice in that state but if the mission of the school is to produce doctors that will practice instate, how can an oos applicant best appeal to that mission and get in?
 
Do you find your opinion on specific applicants to often be drastically different from the rest of the presumably older/more traditional adcom members? Or does your opinion generally lineup with theirs?

What do you consider to be your most important "value add" to the adcom?

Having seen both sides of the application process, which side has it harder? The adcom side slugging through hundreds or even thousands of apps or being an applicant hoping to be one of the people picked out of the adcom's pile?

Strangest (non-identifiable) thing you've seen on an amcas app?

Do you find your opinion on specific applicants to often be drastically different from the rest of the presumably older/more traditional adcom members? Or does your opinion generally lineup with theirs?

I think that my opinions generally align with the rest of the traditional adcom members. As expected, they're really good at picking through applications quickly without overlooking highlights and while still being able to idenify key items that might be missing. Granted, the picture is generally relatively clear at this stage (early in the process) - most of the applicants that we're deciding on have high scores, great ECs, etc.

That being said, there have been a couple of instances where my opinions haven't lined up. Sometimes, applicants have amazing numbers, but they appear as "robots" on paper. Since the institution's main concern is choosing students that will be successful academically, the traditional adcom members love these high-scoring applicants. I tend to ask the question "Will they fit in with the class?" or "Are they really passionate about medicine?"

What do you consider to be your most important "value add" to the adcom?

I think my greatest value is in offering a fresh perspective. Many of our adcoms have sat on the committee for many years, so their approaches might be a bit more fixed, whereas mine are a bit more variable. I also think that, having been an applicant relatively recently, I see the very real human side of this process. The course of many candidates' lives are dependent on the decisions made in these meetings.

Having seen both sides of the application process, which side has it harder? The adcom side slugging through hundreds or even thousands of apps or being an applicant hoping to be one of the people picked out of the adcom's pile?

I think that both sides are incredibly hard. I was a waitlisted applicant that sweat it out until late in the process before being accepted, which made for one of the most difficult years of my life, but the reality is that there is no "work" that you need to put in as an applicant, once apps are in and interviews are completed - all you can do is wait. Meanwhile, from the adcom perspective, it isn't easy to decide between various applicants when each one has relatively similar MCAT/GPA/ECs, and the adcom meets every week for hours at a time working through the details of each app that comes across the table.

Strangest (non-identifiable) thing you've seen on an amcas app?

Someone wrote their personal statement about their love of cheese.
 
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How does an OOS applicant best appeal to your school's mission? I know its not believable for say a new yorker or californian to tell a rural state school that they want to live and practice in that state but if the mission of the school is to produce doctors that will practice instate, how can an oos applicant best appeal to that mission and get in?
We actually had a discussion about this at our last meeting. We are located in an urban area, and so we generally look to ensure that an OOS applicant will have a support system, or that they have more than a generic reason for coming here (aside from "research opportunities" or "the curriculum"). We just want to make sure that they will be able to adjust upon arrival and be successful. Being that we're in a pretty densely populated area, the school's mission isn't necessarily to keep every graduating physician in-state, but it tends to happen anyway.
 
I try to get a feel for whether someone was merely completing the "checklist" or if they actually showed some passion for the things that they were involved in. An applicant that I came across put down 10 different organizations that they were part of, but didn't show much initiative in any single one in terms of actually getting involved and building something from it. You can be involved in a ton of things superficially, but medicine is not the type of career that you can be superficially involved in.

If I come across a candidate that has committed 1000s of hours to something particular (ie. research, scribing, or even an organization), it doesn't bother me that they might be missing out on one of the classic unwritten requirements. They were passionate about something, and really immersed themselves in that commitment.
What if we mistyped 200 when it was actually 2000...
 
What if we mistyped 200 when it was actually 2000...
I wouldn't worry about it. Often, the amount of time put in is really apparent when we read what the applicant writes about his/her experience. We've discussed situations where applicants have noted that they put 500 hours into an experience, but wrote three generic sentences about their "involvement." I was in college recently enough to know that "Attended meetings, took part in community service events and assisted with..." means that a person went to the minimum number of meetings/events to be an official member of an organization. You can call it 500 hours, but someone on the adcom will offer that it was likely a typo (AKA 50 total hours).
 
How is an applicant who is actively helping medical students on their research projects in a multi-collaborative lab, along with other bench work, viewed in the eyes of the admission process ?

I was just wondering if this was a shining point that the said applicant was helping "one of our own" would be viewed positively ? Or as much weight as helping anyone in the lab really....

Would it be more favorable and a tipping point if the person's name was on the medical student's paper ?
 
How is an applicant who is actively helping medical students on their research projects in a multi-collaborative lab, along with other bench work, viewed in the eyes of the admission process ?

I was just wondering if this was a shining point that the said applicant was helping "one of our own" would be viewed positively ? Or as much weight as helping anyone in the lab really....

Would it be more favorable and a tipping point if the person's name was on the medical student's paper ?
I don't imagine that it would receive any more weight than helping anyone in a lab. So many of the breakthroughs in medicine (and the teaching in medical school) comes from PhDs - they are just as much "one of our own" as med students, residents, attendings, etc.

That being said, it sounds like a great EC regardless, and having your name on a paper definitely could not hurt your application.
 
I don't imagine that it would receive any more weight than helping anyone in a lab. So many of the breakthroughs in medicine (and the teaching in medical school) comes from PhDs - they are just as much "one of our own" as med students, residents, attendings, etc.

That being said, it sounds like a great EC regardless, and having your name on a paper definitely could not hurt your application.


Very nice point. Expanded my view on things.

thank you for the reply !
 
Thanks for doing this!

Can you think of a time where there was significant disagreement among the adcoms about an applicant? What was the issue and how did it play out?

What makes the difference between an interviewee getting accepted versus waitlisted?

I always appreciate these threads, I think they're probably one of the more helpful things someone can use SDN to do. Thanks again!
 
Thanks for doing this!

Can you think of a time where there was significant disagreement among the adcoms about an applicant? What was the issue and how did it play out?

What makes the difference between an interviewee getting accepted versus waitlisted?

I always appreciate these threads, I think they're probably one of the more helpful things someone can use SDN to do. Thanks again!
I think that so far, some of the biggest disagreements have been over students that have great scores (3.9+, 34+) but seem to have very superficial applications. For example, sometimes applicants have two parents that are physicians, and write about their motivations coming from their families pushing them towards medicine, but don't show any passion of their own for a career in the field. Sure, family can be an influence, and of course their scores may be great, but if they are doing it to satisfy their parents, they will very quickly find themselves losing motivation.

I think that the biggest difference between acceptance versus waitlist comes down to the interview. For obvious reasons, we don't choose to interview applicants that could not handle the rigors medical school - there's no reason to waste their time, or give them false hope. Therefore, the large majority of the applicants appear ready academically, but it is the interview that turns out to be the make-or-break factor. Sometimes a student just isn't as polished in an interview as they appeared on paper. There can be a disconnect in personality, maturity, etc. that can become obvious to faculty that have interviewed many candidates over time.
 
I think that so far, some of the biggest disagreements have been over students that have great scores (3.9+, 34+) but seem to have very superficial applications. For example, sometimes applicants have two parents that are physicians, and write about their motivations coming from their families pushing them towards medicine, but don't show any passion of their own for a career in the field. Sure, family can be an influence, and of course their scores may be great, but if they are doing it to satisfy their parents, they will very quickly find themselves losing motivation.

I think that the biggest difference between acceptance versus waitlist comes down to the interview. For obvious reasons, we don't choose to interview applicants that could not handle the rigors medical school - there's no reason to waste their time, or give them false hope. Therefore, the large majority of the applicants appear ready academically, but it is the interview that turns out to be the make-or-break factor. Sometimes a student just isn't as polished in an interview as they appeared on paper. There can be a disconnect in personality, maturity, etc. that can become obvious to faculty that have interviewed many candidates over time.

can u give some background on ur school? it would be nice to have some context
 
Thank you so much for answering some questions! It is really nice to hear more about how at least one school might do things. 🙂 I'm glad to have another perspective to take into account!

1. You've mentioned a little bit about applicants with super high scores but not a lot of passion. What about the other way around? If an applicant has, let's say, lots of experience, good recs, ECs, etc, but a low GPA or a low MCAT score, what is that discussion like in your adcom?

2. I know this works differently at every school, but once you invite an applicant to interview at your institution, how much do their scores count afterward? Is it more based on fit, or could you still end up rejecting that applicant for a lower GPA/MCAT?

3. How many people see each application at your school? What determines when an applicant is rejected or invited to interview? (For example, I've heard of one school that has 2 people review your app initially. If both say yes, you get an interview -- if both say no, you are rejected -- and if they disagree, your app gets passed to a third person)

4. How much do essays count, in your experience? And letters of rec? Or are they more of things that can hurt your app if not done well but often not really help you?

Thanks again!! Sorry for all of the questions!
 
If every student interviewer and committee member made an account... hmmm imagine that.
 
Thank you so much for answering some questions! It is really nice to hear more about how at least one school might do things. 🙂 I'm glad to have another perspective to take into account!

1. You've mentioned a little bit about applicants with super high scores but not a lot of passion. What about the other way around? If an applicant has, let's say, lots of experience, good recs, ECs, etc, but a low GPA or a low MCAT score, what is that discussion like in your adcom?

2. I know this works differently at every school, but once you invite an applicant to interview at your institution, how much do their scores count afterward? Is it more based on fit, or could you still end up rejecting that applicant for a lower GPA/MCAT?

3. How many people see each application at your school? What determines when an applicant is rejected or invited to interview? (For example, I've heard of one school that has 2 people review your app initially. If both say yes, you get an interview -- if both say no, you are rejected -- and if they disagree, your app gets passed to a third person)

4. How much do essays count, in your experience? And letters of rec? Or are they more of things that can hurt your app if not done well but often not really help you?

Thanks again!! Sorry for all of the questions!

I'll answer your questions in the order asked:

1. We have definitely come across a few applicants that have lower scores, but some incredible experiences (ie. founding charitable organizations, worked to support themselves through college while still shadowing/volunteering). At the end of the day, we don't doubt these applicants' passions for the field. The question becomes, "will they be able to handle to rigor of the academics?" The answer becomes multifactorial. Did they spread themselves too thin, for example, by taking 20+ credit semesters, which resulted in a few poor performances? What does their trend look like? Are there major life events that coincided with academic slips? Did they not prepare for the MCAT effectively in a way that it underestimates their potential? To answer simply, there's a theoretical line that is drawn where it's just too low and admitting them would be too risky, but that line is different from applicant to applicant based on circumstance.

2. I sort of alluded to this earlier, but with very few exceptions that I've seen thus far, we don't interview applicants that don't have the scores necessary for admission. Therefore, the interview is more based on fit than on scores. Although, the interview help us make a decision on an applicant with low scores if the applicant is unable to provide an explanation for their performance.

3. I'm not sure about the interview selection process at our institution - I'm not involved in that aspect. But the example you provided might be the way that interviews are handled at our school.

4. I think that essays are generally regarded as neutral, unless they provide explanations for gaps that appear confusing in the application. For example, in an application where a candidate has transferred 3 times, finding out that they transferred 3 times due to an illness in their immediate family in their essay, versus assuming that they were just being indecisive provides a very different perspective on an applicant.
 
What background would you like?

Is your school a research powerhouse or is it more about training clinicians for a particular community, is there a local bias, does your school aggressively recruit high stats people and have really high medians, etc, do they adore non trade or are indifferent
 
Apologies if this question is too broad. What kind of signs do you see in applicants that indicates a lack of maturity, especially as this is evident in the interview?

As you can imagine, there are a wide range of things that indicate a lack of maturity. I don't interview, so I can't provide specifics based on my own personal experience interviewing candidates. But based on discussions that we've had within the committee, it can be really simple things: arrival time (showing up late), dressing inappropriately for an interview, communication skills, etc. Someone brought their parents, and asked if his/her parents could sit in the interview room. That was looked upon as a bit immature.
 
As you can imagine, there are a wide range of things that indicate a lack of maturity. I don't interview, so I can't provide specifics based on my own personal experience interviewing candidates. But based on discussions that we've had within the committee, it can be really simple things: arrival time (showing up late), dressing inappropriately for an interview, communication skills, etc. Someone brought their parents, and asked if his/her parents could sit in the interview room. That was looked upon as a bit immature.

I feel uncomfortable just envisioning that conversation...
 
My Gawd! @gyngyn wasn't making stuff like this up! I take it that you're not in a school in CA?

As you can imagine, there are a wide range of things that indicate a lack of maturity. I don't interview, so I can't provide specifics based on my own personal experience interviewing candidates. But based on discussions that we've had within the committee, it can be really simple things: arrival time (showing up late), dressing inappropriately for an interview, communication skills, etc. Someone brought their parents, and asked if his/her parents could sit in the interview room. That was looked upon as a bit immature.
 
Is your school a research powerhouse or is it more about training clinicians for a particular community, is there a local bias, does your school aggressively recruit high stats people and have really high medians, etc, do they adore non trade or are indifferent
I think on the spectrum of research powerhouses to community-based clinical practice, my institution falls somewhere in the middle. As a state school, there is a local bias in terms of IS vs. OOS, but I wouldn't say that there's a bias regarding parts of the state. I'd say the distribution is relatively similar to the population density (although I don't have any exact figures to confirm that). We definitely don't aggressively recruit high stats applicants, but many high stats applicants apply, and it's hard to turn many of them down if they are not the "robots" that I described in a previous post. There's no preference made here between non-trads and traditional applicants, at least in my experience.
 
If I quit residency now and reapply will it give me a leg up in the application? Also, can I go straight to 3rd year so I don't have to do preclincals again. Thanks.
It depends on how many hours you list on your AMCAS application. Not sure if you'll be able to get credit for all of the hours you've put in since it limits you to 9999.
 
Is this a presumptuous statement for an application essay:
For many people this would have been their one moment that spurred their desire to pursue medicine, but I am fortunate and have experienced many moments.
 
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I have a few questions on components of my personal statement. I feel that my essay is complete, and I am no longer actively adding to it, but someone brought a few interesting points up when reading my essay, and I was wondering if anyone could take a look, and let me know what they think.

Double post. Mods delete.
 
1) How do you decide if a Hispanic is URM at your school and 2) how does your approach change for someone who is a URM?

Edit. also 3) Do you weight the secondaries different or do you just treat those the same as the PS/overall app?
 
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