Student Doctor Network hate?

[Cyberdyne 101]

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There's a difference between trolling and being an a**hole. What you were describing was the former. Trolling, however, is a art. It's done without true malice, as a good troll tries to elicit feelings of anger and foolishness by hitting the absurdity of certain people's personality traits. Like, a jerk is just trying to make someone feel bad. A troll is trying to make someone upset over something they should not be upset about, but only are upset about because of a preexisting character flaw. By making people experience such discomfort in the face of their psychological flaws, it is hoped that they might realized the absurdity of such things, and maybe, just maybe, change for the better. Good trolls troll people that they find fault with not for the sake of merely eliciting a response, but in the hope of breaking people out of patterns of thought that are, at the end of the day, self destructive. At the very least, it is hoped that someone observing might learn something from the encounter by seeing how ridiculously the trollee acts, and thus might become self-aware about such behavior within themselves and avoid it in the future.

Or at least that's my philosophy on trolling. Trolling isn't done with the intent to harm, but to make the world a better place at the end of the day. Hideo Kojima is a great example of a fine troll. He has tried to teach the lesson of not expecting things and enjoying what you have, as well as many lessons about the price of pop-culture obsession. It's been lost on many gamers of the years, because they don't understand the true spirit of trolling. He didn't force people to sit through a three hour interview on Christmas only to reveal a chicken hat option for MGS V to waste their time. He let them do it of their own volition, to make them realize their time had been wasted, that their fandom had cost them three hours of a wonderful day they could have spent doing literally anything else. That maybe, next time they shouldn't hop on the hype train and spend time with their friends and family. That is what a real troll does- induces rage in the shortsighted and unreflective, but introspection in those that take the time to think about their actions and feelings and why they are happening.

Yes, I just wrote a treatise on trolling. Because being an ***hole and a troll are in no way the same thing, and that record needs to be set straight.

 

[DrMikeP]

If you're going to be a dr then you had better grow thick skin because if you aren't insulted by fellow professionals at some point you will definitely be by some patients. I find SDN helpful in application info, seeing what is going on interview wise, and to give me ideas of where to look for what info I need, but I don't take anything here as gospel.

You are a ***** and shouldn't be in med school if you base your life and important decisions like med school on a forum/message board, so if you want to drop out now then send me all of your money and I'll tell you how wonderful you are... MUHAHAHAA

Flame away, see if I care because I'm accepted!

 

[turrgavi]

If you're going to be a dr then you had better grow thick skin because if you aren't insulted by fellow professionals at some point you will definitely be by some patients. I find SDN helpful in application info, seeing what is going on interview wise, and to give me ideas of where to look for what info I need, but I don't take anything here as gospel.

You are a ***** and shouldn't be in med school if you base your life and important decisions like med school on a forum/message board, so if you want to drop out now then send me all of your money and I'll tell you how wonderful you are... MUHAHAHAA

Flame away, see if I care because I'm accepted!

Congratulations on your acceptance, idiot. 😉

 

[lcm2020]

If you're going to be a dr then you had better grow thick skin because if you aren't insulted by fellow professionals at some point you will definitely be by some patients. I find SDN helpful in application info, seeing what is going on interview wise, and to give me ideas of where to look for what info I need, but I don't take anything here as gospel.

You are a ***** and shouldn't be in med school if you base your life and important decisions like med school on a forum/message board, so if you want to drop out now then send me all of your money and I'll tell you how wonderful you are... MUHAHAHAA

Flame away, see if I care because I'm accepted!

 

[Cotterpin]

while you're right that the moderators have not banned people for expressing reality yet they do occasionally shut down threads discussing the topic, they discourage any and all MD vs. DO threads, how is pre-osteo not a subforum of pre-med but gets it's own forum, and why is the outdated and derogatory term "allopathic" being used all over the site?!

Would you mind please explaining to me why you consider the term "allopathic" to be derogatory?

 

[235009]

Would you mind please explaining to me why you consider the term "allopathic" to be derogatory?

There was a thread about it:

http://www.forums.studentdoctor.net...erogatory-term---Interesting-history.1112933/

 

[deleted407021]

There was a thread about it:

http://www.forums.studentdoctor.net/index.php?threads/"Allopathic"-was-originally-a-derogatory-term---Interesting-history.1112933/

Appropriate it, man. Own it.

So, next time you see a colleague, throw a sign and be like, "Whaddup, ma allo?"

 

[22031 Alum]

@MeatTornado I don't think you and I are too far apart in our general stance/approach to the MD vs. DO argument. I don't agree that there is bias to the extent you say-- but I've only recently become active on the forums so you've had more time to let it get to you than I have. I also have the luxury of not having my name constantly brought up and pulled into discussions as the "anti-DO" poster child, like you do. I can see how that would be frustrating if overall you're just trying to help people and give advice.

I didn't know anybody considered "allopathic" a pejorative, but I've only ever seen the term here. In the real world it's just "MD" or "DO"-- when it even matters and isn't just "physician."

 

[Mad Jack]

Edit: Saw the derailment notice, my bad.

Though it does bring to light something. A big part of the reason SDN gets hate is because a lot of people here are really terrible at not seeing or caring how they come off to others, which is fine for many, but rustles the jimmies of many new members.

 

[Mad Jack]

But, but you don't have his experience!! So, you're arguments are invalid.

 

[Mad Jack]

If you're going to be a dr then you had better grow thick skin because if you aren't insulted by fellow professionals at some point you will definitely be by some patients. I find SDN helpful in application info, seeing what is going on interview wise, and to give me ideas of where to look for what info I need, but I don't take anything here as gospel.

You are a ***** and shouldn't be in med school if you base your life and important decisions like med school on a forum/message board, so if you want to drop out now then send me all of your money and I'll tell you how wonderful you are... MUHAHAHAA

Flame away, see if I care because I'm accepted!

If you've got no premed advisor or yours is absolute crap, and you have no friends or family that are in medicine or academics, where else are you going to get even half-informed information about admission to medical school if not strangers on the internet?

 

[deleted407021]

Edit: Saw the derailment notice, my bad.

Though it does bring to light something. A big part of the reason SDN gets hate is because a lot of people here are really terrible at not seeing or caring how they come off to others, which is fine for many, but rustles the jimmies of many new members.

That's common theoughout the Internet. It's secondary to the anonymity, I'm sure.

I've referred some clueless premeds to SDN on a few occasions where I've been met with some skepticism. I'm surprised to see that the impression is that pervasive.

 

[Mad Jack]

That's common theoughout the Internet. It's secondary to the anonymity, I'm sure.

I've referred some clueless premeds to SDN on a few occasions where I've been met with some skepticism. I'm surprised to see that the impression is that pervasive.

I seriously blame it on snowflakes that are averse to reality. People just want good news and support, and SDN is, more often than not, a place of planning for the worst but hoping for the best. For the types that want to plan for the best and hope for the best, SDN is not a good fit.

 

[Pedantic]

Hi,

I was listening to a podcast this morning. It was on the topic of premed resources and when someone mentioned SDN, everyone freaked out and began hating on it. Even saying not to mention "SDN" on his show again.

What makes them hate SDN?

My opinion is that many of the posts on sdn are a tad bit darker than reality. Also, some of the posts can be grotesque or outright childish.

SDN... it has potential, but it's become a netherworld of advice.

 

[deleted407021]

I seriously blame it on snowflakes that are averse to reality. People just want good news and support, and SDN is, more often than not, a place of planning for the worst but hoping for the best. For the types that want to plan for the best and hope for the best, SDN is not a good fit.

And, I think that creating an online community around a set of specific and often controversial subject, with the expectation that everyone will always remain "professional" and on-topic, is perhaps naive.

 

[Krupke]

There's a possibility that he really doesn't believe his own hyperbole and is simply trolling us. He might be laughing at us right now, saying, "haha you *****s fall for this routine every time!!"

It definitely is really hard to get a straightforward view of the challenges that a DO could potentially face on this site (some higher up people saying that as long as you work hard you can get into any specialty and other calling that an exaggeration, etc.). But I live 30mins from what is considered a top DO school and I had never even heard of DO physicians until SDN, so it's good that people can find out about opportunities they didn't know existed here.

 

[Mad Jack]

It definitely is really hard to get a straightforward view of the challenges that a DO could potentially face on this site (some higher up people saying that as long as you work hard you can get into any specialty and other calling that an exaggeration, etc.). But I live 30mins from what is considered a top DO school and I had never even heard of DO physicians until SDN, so it's good that people can find out about opportunities they didn't know existed here.

It's actually pretty straightforward- you'll be limited in your options in top fields and top programs within less competitive fields. You'll be more geographically limited. You can get into some of the more competitive specialties, but only if you're exceptional- and anyone going into medical school planning to be the exception is foolish. You might find you have an interest in something during rotations that is out of your reach. But you'll get to be a doctor, and if you're okay with the above, you'll be a happy and successful one.

 

[Lucca]

When I started on the pre-med track again (I quit after my first year of college), SDN was a kick in the butt and helped me get things done. I'm grateful for that. At the same time though, in hindsight, my pre-med advisor was a pretty awesome guy and he told me exactly what I needed to do in order to get into medical school. My biggest problem with SDN, at least with the popular pre-allopathic board is where members are placing their priorities. For instance, way too much weight is being put into the pre-med journey, almost to the point where they are making it seem even more important than getting into medical school in the first place! People are being pressured to take on way more ECs, entry-level clinical jobs, and other things they DO NOT NEED in order to get into medical school. If it gets them in, then great! If not, then you'll have people stuck in either entry-level clinical jobs or underemployed in unrelated industries, because they were pushed, often due to advice on this site, to put all of their eggs in one basket.

That's why I like to contribute here, and help people take a step back, and look at the big picture. At the end of the day, once you're sitting in that medical school seat, no one will care about how many hours you volunteered at however many places, or if you were an EMT, scribe, or CNA. And if you follow the advice here and bite off more than you can chew, any decent future employers won't care either about how many hours you volunteered at however many places, or if you were an EMT, scribe, or CNA. And if a pre-med on this site fails the process and decides to call it quits, then you won't hear from them again. How often will someone create a thread about them failing? That's why people on here get a false sense of things that are going on.

As others have said, you need to sift through the junk to find the gems. And listen to your pre-med advisers, a lot of them know what they are talking about. They aren't idiots like people make them out to be. And stop acting like your ECs are some badge of honor, eventually no one will care, and they can bite you in the ass. Here's what sums up my philosophy:

"The SDN Philosophy: The pre-med journey should be a meaningful one, where you do things that you're passionate about. You should grow significantly as a person. You will enjoy it, because if you don't, well then you don't want to know."

"The Planes2Doc Philosophy: The purpose of pre-med is simple. Get a seat in medical school. The journey itself isn't important. Pre-med is potentially a huge sacrifice. Too many applicants put all of their eggs in one basket, and if medical school doesn't work out, then their lives can be ruined."

The advice in allopathic and later threads is more helpful. People are definitely more realistic, and not spewing the idealistic stupid crap you find all over pre-allo, no offense.

I have to disagree with you on principle Plans2Doc, not because I don't think you bring up valid points but about your conclusion.

I would take your same points and reach precisely the opposite conclusion: SDN reframes going to college as strictly a pre-medical undertaking rather than the multi-dimensional and highly-influential journey it actually is. You may want to call me a romantic (or delusional) when I make the claim that undergraduate education is more important and expansive than a series of hoops but if you look at university students who are not easily trapped into the pre-professional treadmill (the premeds, hardcore pre-laws, pre anything really, and the ibanking gunners) then you will find college to them is more of an exploratory process, open-ended, with no clear purpose or path that seems to have some deeper meaning but is elusive to the one pursuing it. Figuring out what you want out of college and then pursuing it is difficult and for some people they could not care less about this problem, some may even say it does not exist. However, it is how many students including myself view their education -- namely, as having a purpose greater and external to my professional/economic/social success, as being about development and citizenship and thinking about things more critically than I was able to do before under my parent's roof and will be able to do in the future when my adult life is consumed by practical concerns. The alternative is your model in which the journey itself is unanalyzed, unimportant and secondary to the end. I just don't think this is true and this is precisely why I think the term "premed" itself is as ridiculous as the laundry list required to earn the moniker.

Even if it is difficult to actually paint the modern college going experience in this light and even more difficult to try to exemplify my conclusion in your conduct as a student, it is a good thing to sell to students because it is worth believing in.

That being said, I agree that considering the "premed" journey to be separate and even more important than the experience of going to college to begin with is ridiculous. The premed journey is a fabrication, a list of boxes animated into a grotesque, ponderous monster. It's worth being a little more critical about why you do things so that once you achieve what you set out to achieve you do not feel empty, robbed, miserable, or like you wasted your time.

 

[Mad Jack]

I have to disagree with you on principle Plans2Doc, not because I don't think you bring up valid points but about your conclusion.

I would take your same points and reach precisely the opposite conclusion: SDN reframes going to college as strictly a pre-medical undertaking rather than the multi-dimensional and highly-influential journey it actually is. You may want to call me a romantic (or delusional) when I make the claim that undergraduate education is more important and expansive than a series of hoops but if you look at university students who are not easily trapped into the pre-professional treadmill (the premeds, hardcore pre-laws, pre anything really, and the ibanking gunners) then you will find college to them is more of an exploratory process, open-ended, with no clear purpose or path that seems to have some deeper meaning but is elusive to the one pursuing it. Figuring out what you want out of college and then pursuing it is difficult and for some people they could not care less about this problem, some may even say it does not exist. However, it is how many students including myself view their education -- namely, as having a purpose greater and external to my professional/economic/social success, as being about development and citizenship and thinking about things more critically than I was able to do before under my parent's roof and will be able to do in the future when my adult life is consumed by practical concerns. The alternative is your model in which the journey itself is unanalyzed, unimportant and secondary to the end. I just don't think this is true and this is precisely why I think the term "premed" itself is as ridiculous as the laundry list required to earn the moniker.

Even if it is difficult to actually paint the modern college going experience in this light and even more difficult to try to exemplify my conclusion in your conduct as a student, it is a good thing to sell to students because it is worth believing in.

That being said, I agree that considering the "premed" journey to be separate and even more important than the experience of going to college to begin with is ridiculous. The premed journey is a fabrication, a list of boxes animated into a grotesque, ponderous monster. It's worth being a little more critical about why you do things so that once you achieve what you set out to achieve you do not feel empty, robbed, miserable, or like you wasted your time.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I have to disagree with you on principle Plans2Doc, not because I don't think you bring up valid points but about your conclusion.

I would take your same points and reach precisely the opposite conclusion: SDN reframes going to college as strictly a pre-medical undertaking rather than the multi-dimensional and highly-influential journey it actually is. You may want to call me a romantic (or delusional) when I make the claim that undergraduate education is more important and expansive than a series of hoops but if you look at university students who are not easily trapped into the pre-professional treadmill (the premeds, hardcore pre-laws, pre anything really, and the ibanking gunners) then you will find college to them is more of an exploratory process, open-ended, with no clear purpose or path that seems to have some deeper meaning but is elusive to the one pursuing it. Figuring out what you want out of college and then pursuing it is difficult and for some people they could not care less about this problem, some may even say it does not exist. However, it is how many students including myself view their education -- namely, as having a purpose greater and external to my professional/economic/social success, as being about development and citizenship and thinking about things more critically than I was able to do before under my parent's roof and will be able to do in the future when my adult life is consumed by practical concerns. The alternative is your model in which the journey itself is unanalyzed, unimportant and secondary to the end. I just don't think this is true and this is precisely why I think the term "premed" itself is as ridiculous as the laundry list required to earn the moniker.

Even if it is difficult to actually paint the modern college going experience in this light and even more difficult to try to exemplify my conclusion in your conduct as a student, it is a good thing to sell to students because it is worth believing in.

That being said, I agree that considering the "premed" journey to be separate and even more important than the experience of going to college to begin with is ridiculous. The premed journey is a fabrication, a list of boxes animated into a grotesque, ponderous monster. It's worth being a little more critical about why you do things so that once you achieve what you set out to achieve you do not feel empty, robbed, miserable, or like you wasted your time.

I agree with you. At the same time, I'd like to note that one's "college experience" can be different than another. For instance, I'm a first-generation American, and come from an immigrant family. For them, it was important for me to choose a major that would allow me to find a well-paying job. Since I wasn't too great in mathematics, I didn't pick an engineering field (what my dad does), and thus I went into economics (my school doesn't have business majors). Therefore, I balanced college between studying for classes and having fun with friends doing the "typical" things. While I wasn't exactly a party animal or heavy drinker, I went out and had fun here and there. There are also people who go to college and pursue what they are passionate in, which includes liberal arts majors (and thus have trouble finding well-paying jobs later). These are the people that feel the need to enrich themselves, and it goes beyond just using college as a stepping stone to get to a high-paying job. I believe this is what you were hitting on, and I agree with you. For many people, this is what college means to them, and this is what they do. Now, if you go to a college party, you'll see lots of people from all different majors, whether it's business, STEM, or liberal arts majors. Now what I hit on in my posts is that becoming a "pre-med" suddenly adds this whole level of fakeness to the experience. So instead of going to a party like one might have wanted to go to, they will be ladling bowls of soup in a soup kitchen. Or instead of majoring in sociology or economics, they will major in biology. Suddenly, the need to get into medical school alters the entire course of their college experience, and they find themselves doing these things they never wanted to do, and never would have done had it not been for medical school. I think you've touched on this too. So, I am guessing we are in agreement then?

 

[jl lin]

@Lucca impressive treatise.

I find too often people are either overly pragmatic or overly idealistic. There are always hoops through which one must jump. Yet, too often the journey, the process, the good things you can cull out of all these moments can get lost. One's life is made up of each of these moments.

Indeed Socrates made a most excellent point: "The unexamined life is not worth living." Education is part of one's journey in life. In fact it is a continuous part of the journey. So I would extend Socrate's point to education. 'Unexamined education is not worthing doing.'

Yes, there is pressure to meet certain metrics. There always is such pressure in the world in which we live. It doesn't mean, however, that we can't find the joy or goodness or value in the process of learning. In fact, I suggest that for perhaps some medical students, the fact that they have to truncate a flow of learning in which they are feasting in order to be stuffed w/ a lot of material they may not have opportunity to fully consider and process is troubling to them. I like to learn for learning's sake. But that does not mean I have not nor will not be forced to consume massive amounts of information from which I will never truly be intellectually nourished. It's sad when such learning becomes a luxury.

 

[Lucca]

I agree with you. At the same time, I'd like to note that one's "college experience" can be different than another. For instance, I'm a first-generation American, and come from an immigrant family. For them, it was important for me to choose a major that would allow me to find a well-paying job. Since I wasn't too great in mathematics, I didn't pick an engineering field (what my dad does), and thus I went into economics (my school doesn't have business majors). Therefore, I balanced college between studying for classes and having fun with friends doing the "typical" things. While I wasn't exactly a party animal or heavy drinker, I went out and had fun here and there. There are also people who go to college and pursue what they are passionate in, which includes liberal arts majors (and thus have trouble finding well-paying jobs later). These are the people that feel the need to enrich themselves, and it goes beyond just using college as a stepping stone to get to a high-paying job. I believe this is what you were hitting on, and I agree with you. For many people, this is what college means to them, and this is what they do. Now, if you go to a college party, you'll see lots of people from all different majors, whether it's business, STEM, or liberal arts majors. Now what I hit on in my posts is that becoming a "pre-med" suddenly adds this whole level of fakeness to the experience. So instead of going to a party like one might have wanted to go to, they will be ladling bowls of soup in a soup kitchen. Or instead of majoring in sociology or economics, they will major in biology. Suddenly, the need to get into medical school alters the entire course of their college experience, and they find themselves doing these things they never wanted to do, and never would have done had it not been for medical school. I think you've touched on this too. So, I am guessing we are in agreement then?

Essentially we are, I am glad you cleared those things up. I understand where you are coming from to as an immigrant myself. I don't discount all of the practical preparations one should make in college to make sure they have food on the table, etc etc but like others have mentioned no one dimension of going to school has to consume your entire life or become the sole purpose.

 

[Mad Jack]

I agree with you. At the same time, I'd like to note that one's "college experience" can be different than another. For instance, I'm a first-generation American, and come from an immigrant family. For them, it was important for me to choose a major that would allow me to find a well-paying job. Since I wasn't too great in mathematics, I didn't pick an engineering field (what my dad does), and thus I went into economics (my school doesn't have business majors). Therefore, I balanced college between studying for classes and having fun with friends doing the "typical" things. While I wasn't exactly a party animal or heavy drinker, I went out and had fun here and there. There are also people who go to college and pursue what they are passionate in, which includes liberal arts majors (and thus have trouble finding well-paying jobs later). These are the people that feel the need to enrich themselves, and it goes beyond just using college as a stepping stone to get to a high-paying job. I believe this is what you were hitting on, and I agree with you. For many people, this is what college means to them, and this is what they do. Now, if you go to a college party, you'll see lots of people from all different majors, whether it's business, STEM, or liberal arts majors. Now what I hit on in my posts is that becoming a "pre-med" suddenly adds this whole level of fakeness to the experience. So instead of going to a party like one might have wanted to go to, they will be ladling bowls of soup in a soup kitchen. Or instead of majoring in sociology or economics, they will major in biology. Suddenly, the need to get into medical school alters the entire course of their college experience, and they find themselves doing these things they never wanted to do, and never would have done had it not been for medical school. I think you've touched on this too. So, I am guessing we are in agreement then?

Yeah, I was kind of in your boat myself. Doing "what I enjoy" or having a college experience for the sake of the experience simply wasn't an option. I was paying my own tuition and going into debt for every course I took, and thus had to made my education have a net positive effect on my income after graduation, because if I came out of school as a barista, I'd be stuck with a lifetime of poverty and debt. So I picked a career that lead to certification that had a good chance of getting me employed- respiratory therapy. Every mandatory humanities class and the like really just felt like an obstacle to me, because college wasn't an experience, it was a means to an end. I think it's cool for people to enjoy college or to pursue things they love or whatever, but for many of us, college is all about tangible results at the end of the day and that should be fine too.

 

[Mad Jack]

Essentially we are, I am glad you cleared those things up. I understand where you are coming from to as an immigrant myself. I don't discount all of the practical preparations one should make in college to make sure they have food on the table, etc etc but like others have mentioned no one dimension of going to school has to consume your entire life or become the sole purpose.

The big reason I'm inclined to agree with you is that many of those that are gunning premeds are putting themselves through that whole nightmare unnecessarily. You don't have to agonize over every course, every test, participate in all the ECs, etc to get into med school. Many become obsessed and take things too far. Being a premed doesn't have to consume you, hell, it doesn't even have to be a big part of your college experience. I took the premed courses, but didn't decide on medicine until after my grades came back- I was like, well, ****, I've got the scores, why not give it a shot. I can't imagine how much my experience would have suffered if I'd been obsessing over things the whole time like many here seem to do.

 

[Cotterpin]

I agree with you. At the same time, I'd like to note that one's "college experience" can be different than another. For instance, I'm a first-generation American, and come from an immigrant family. For them, it was important for me to choose a major that would allow me to find a well-paying job. Since I wasn't too great in mathematics, I didn't pick an engineering field (what my dad does), and thus I went into economics (my school doesn't have business majors). Therefore, I balanced college between studying for classes and having fun with friends doing the "typical" things. While I wasn't exactly a party animal or heavy drinker, I went out and had fun here and there. There are also people who go to college and pursue what they are passionate in, which includes liberal arts majors (and thus have trouble finding well-paying jobs later). These are the people that feel the need to enrich themselves, and it goes beyond just using college as a stepping stone to get to a high-paying job. I believe this is what you were hitting on, and I agree with you. For many people, this is what college means to them, and this is what they do. Now, if you go to a college party, you'll see lots of people from all different majors, whether it's business, STEM, or liberal arts majors. Now what I hit on in my posts is that becoming a "pre-med" suddenly adds this whole level of fakeness to the experience. So instead of going to a party like one might have wanted to go to, they will be ladling bowls of soup in a soup kitchen. Or instead of majoring in sociology or economics, they will major in biology. Suddenly, the need to get into medical school alters the entire course of their college experience, and they find themselves doing these things they never wanted to do, and never would have done had it not been for medical school. I think you've touched on this too. So, I am guessing we are in agreement then?

Are you saying that there are people out there who major in economics because they actually enjoy it?

 

[Planes2Doc]

Are you saying that there are people out there who major in economics because they actually enjoy it?

I actually enjoyed a good portion of it. But it started in high school with a really good teacher. There was still a balance between classes I enjoyed and hated. To each their own.

 

[Lucca]

The big reason I'm inclined to agree with you is that many of those that are gunning premeds are putting themselves through that whole nightmare unnecessarily. You don't have to agonize over every course, every test, participate in all the ECs, etc to get into med school. Many become obsessed and take things too far. Being a premed doesn't have to consume you, hell, it doesn't even have to be a big part of your college experience. I took the premed courses, but didn't decide on medicine until after my grades came back- I was like, well, ****, I've got the scores, why not give it a shot. I can't imagine how much my experience would have suffered if I'd been obsessing over things the whole time like many here seem to do.

If I've learned anything in school is that the key to academic balance is taking what you do very seriously; yourself, not so much.

Which I realize is hilarious coming from me since I spend some amount of my free time writing way-too-long posts on SDN.

I take my writing assignments seriously, even if nobody but my professor will read them and they are mostly about stuff that happened a long time ago and things dead people thought about, but the assignments themselves, the coursework I take, etc have nothing to do with me as a person. They may have affected or influenced me in some way but they are not directly tied to my ego. When the entire purpose of going to school is getting into medical school then how can you separate your CV from how you think about yourself and - more importantly - other people?

 

[Lucca]

Yeah, I was kind of in your boat myself. Doing "what I enjoy" or having a college experience for the sake of the experience simply wasn't an option. I was paying my own tuition and going into debt for every course I took, and thus had to made my education have a net positive effect on my income after graduation, because if I came out of school as a barista, I'd be stuck with a lifetime of poverty and debt. So I picked a career that lead to certification that had a good chance of getting me employed- respiratory therapy. Every mandatory humanities class and the like really just felt like an obstacle to me, because college wasn't an experience, it was a means to an end. I think it's cool for people to enjoy college or to pursue things they love or whatever, but for many of us, college is all about tangible results at the end of the day and that should be fine too.

Your story is very common among college students since very few people can pay up front for their schooling. I consider my family very wealthy by national standards and they wouldn't be able to pay my very-cheap public school education up front (admittedly, the debt would also be way more manageable than what some students face). If I wasn't on a full tuition scholarship, I guarantee you I would've majored in engineering or computer science, maybe dropped my humanities degree (I wouldn't today but I didn't know much as a freshman) and the yearly round of consulting/business/biotech industry recruiting fairs would have looked a whole lot more appealing. I can tell you another thing, I certainly wouldn't be considering going to school for 8 more years to get two doctorates. Education should be liberating but when it is prohibitively expensive then its value is reduced in spite of the price tag.

 

[Lawpy]

Are you saying that there are people out there who major in economics because they actually enjoy it?

Of course they enjoy it for reasons outside of careers. Even though i wasn't an econ major, i took plenty of courses and did a lot of econ stuff in ECs because i enjoy it a lot and see its crucial significance in medicine.

 

[Goro]

I don't know about the "top" part, but it must be my school. We're simply terrible at self-promotion.

It definitely is really hard to get a straightforward view of the challenges that a DO could potentially face on this site (some higher up people saying that as long as you work hard you can get into any specialty and other calling that an exaggeration, etc.). But I live 30mins from what is considered a top DO school and I had never even heard of DO physicians until SDN, so it's good that people can find out about opportunities they didn't know existed here.

 

[Oh_Gee]

I don't know about the "top" part, but it must be my school. We're simply terrible at self-promotion.

hire samsung or apple

 

[Cotterpin]

Of course they enjoy it for reasons outside of careers. Even though i wasn't an econ major, i took plenty of courses and did a lot of econ stuff in ECs because i enjoy it a lot and see its crucial significance in medicine.

I think you guys are taking my post more seriously than I meant it. I was just making a little joke about economics being a dry subject.

 

[Lawpy]

I think you guys are taking my post more seriously than I meant it. I was just making a little joke about economics being a dry subject.

🙁

 

[Krupke]

hire samsung or apple

The school actually advertises some of its other programs on Pandora. Don't know if I've ever heard one for the osteopathic program though

 

[deleted407021]

🙁

Trek Trivia!! There was a pro-LGBT Easter egg in that particular episode.

 

[235009]

@MeatTornado I don't think you and I are too far apart in our general stance/approach to the MD vs. DO argument. I don't agree that there is bias to the extent you say-- but I've only recently become active on the forums so you've had more time to let it get to you than I have. I also have the luxury of not having my name constantly brought up and pulled into discussions as the "anti-DO" poster child, like you do. I can see how that would be frustrating if overall you're just trying to help people and give advice.

I didn't know anybody considered "allopathic" a pejorative, but I've only ever seen the term here. In the real world it's just "MD" or "DO"-- when it even matters and isn't just "physician."

Of course our views align because we've both seen enough of reality to know the truth. I haven't come across a single resident or attending who disagrees with my views... even DOs. It's only the pre-meds, pre-clinical students, a few clinical students and a particular non-physician adcom member who have tried to demonize me for attempting to educate people about the difficulties and shortcomings of taking the DO path. I specifically stayed out of the thread @Cyberdyne 101 mentioned until you guys weighed in and someone called me out by name so that it din't devolve into the usual shoot the messenger herd mentality that tends to happen.

I didn't know allopathic was pejorative either and hadn't seen it used anywhere but here until I read that thread. Puts things into context though seeing as the founder of SDN is a DO and the extreme pro-DO stance of this website. Of course at the end of the day we as MDs don't really care to make a fuss about it because we realize our "privileged" position ...to borrow a term from the youth 😉

 

[jqueb29]

SDN is extremely helpful. It helped me get into medical school, and it helps me still today in medical school. The kind of people who can't detect what is and is not BS on here are the kind of people who probably don't need to be doctors anyway. If you can't sniff out BS on here, you're probably going to be that doctor who thinks your patient really does need a prescription for 100 dilaudids a day.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

It's actually pretty straightforward- you'll be limited in your options in top fields and top programs within less competitive fields. You'll be more geographically limited. You can get into some of the more competitive specialties, but only if you're exceptional- and anyone going into medical school planning to be the exception is foolish. You might find you have an interest in something during rotations that is out of your reach. But you'll get to be a doctor, and if you're okay with the above, you'll be a happy and successful one.

This should be pasted on every MD/DO thread.

 

[onceawolverine]

SDN has a reputation for neuroticism, vitriol, and incorrect or misguided advice to the lay-premed. Of course there are elements of these present, but experienced users are able to wade through the BS and pick out the things that will actually help them when applying to medical school and beyond.

Reported for making 48 robot accounts to like that post

 

[DrMikeP]

It's actually pretty straightforward- you'll be limited in your options in top fields and top programs within less competitive fields. You'll be more geographically limited. You can get into some of the more competitive specialties, but only if you're exceptional- and anyone going into medical school planning to be the exception is foolish. You might find you have an interest in something during rotations that is out of your reach. But you'll get to be a doctor, and if you're okay with the above, you'll be a happy and successful one.

I work in one of the largest public hospital systems in the US and we have a lot of DO's in a very wide range of specialties, even neurosurgery. So it is definitely possible to get into many specialties and some DO's are awesome, but then others aren't the most exceptional students. It's also a public hospital, so that makes a difference in opportunities for DO's. There is definitely still sporadic bias against DO's as well.

I totally agree that it's more challenging with a DO and if you want to be something like the best surgeon in an ultra-competitive specialty at one of the top US hospitals then getting a DO is adding a huge hurdle. One can also say similar about where you do undergrad and what med school you attend. Certain undergrad schools get you into the best MD schools and then certain MD schools are known for getting people into the most competitive of residencies. Why add an extra hurdle in an already ultra-competitive race if you don't have to, if you get stuck with one then get ready to work even harder! Assess your goals and create the most effective path to reach them.