Student Loan Debt

[jetproppilot]

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DEBT IS AN ANCHOR.

Yeah, I know you pre meds and med students and residents are tired of hearing this from me.

I DON'T CARE.

Because I know it's true.

There are some LIVELY DISCUSSIONS right now on SDN Anesthesiology that have one goal:

AWARENESS.

It's VERY EASY to sail thru college, med school and residency

JUST SIGNING PROMISSORY NOTES,

FORGETTING ABOUT THEM,

AND BEING

COMPLETELY UNAWARE

not thinking about how those loan notes will

DELETERIOUSLY EFFECT YOUR FUTURE.

We're all intellectual adults here. I'm not trying to insult you. However

I'VE BEEN THERE MAN

in the financial aid office signing and signing and signing

JUST TO MAKE EVERYTHING OK SO I CAN GET THE M.D. DEGREE.

I've been there.

We all have to do what we have to do to make

MEDICINE....THIS AMAAAAAZING PROFESSION

happen for us.

Very well.

BUT... if you are borrowing sizable amounts of benjamins to finance your medical education

(you WON'T hear this in the financial aid office at your med school)

YOU HAFFTA HAVE A PLAN TO PAY THAT S H IT OFF

Or it will linger and fester and

HAUNT YOU.

Don't ignore it man.

If you've Gotta Borrow,

very well. I get it.

Just

BE AWARE and

THINK AHEAD.

Love,

Jet

 

[F0nzie]

Love it man. You're my debt coach.

 

[Sonny Crocket]

Could not agree more about this topic. Student loans will haunt you. But lets also talk about car and house loans once student loans are paid off. There is a lack of financial education in the United States. I see some very dumb things happening with the people that I work with. They buy crazy cars and houses because they are making bank and they are depending on this type of income continuing forever. But will it?

Will that huge house and BMW really improve your quality of life that much that it is worth the debt burden an stress?

 

[Silent Cool]

Jet's right.

Med school shouldn't cost 500K. Something needs to change.

SC out.

 

[imfrankie]

Don't know details, but I've see Oregon (OHSU) talk about free tuition for serving in rural areas.

 

[deleted126335]

I have spent considerable time studying finance and the history of markets. Jet is completely correct.

 

[GTFOOMICT]

Yes, awareness is good!

Keep it up.

Ill plug Dave Ramsey. I drink the Kool aid. I think he is wrong about some investing things but his debt snow ball works. My family income is less than half of a practicing anesthesiologist and I am destroying my debt thanks to him.

 

[wjs010]

I will work for free ( live off spousal income) for probably 5 straight years when I finally get a job. I won't spend a penny until I'm breaking zero.

 

[BLADEMDA]

👍

I will work for free ( live off spousal income) for probably 5 straight years when I finally get a job. I won't spend a penny until I'm breaking zero.

👍

Wow. Lets see if you stick with that plan

 

[yappy]

Good thread, Jet.

Just wondering how many people here are boggleheads? I notice a lot of the ideas presented on this forum resemble those on bogglehead investing boards.

-save emergency fund
-get out of debt
-live below your means
-invest early and often: Vanguard funds 33% 33% 33% : whole domestic, international, bonds.
-rebalance each year as neccesary

IMO Dr. Boggle > Dave Ramsey because Dave stops at getting out of debt.

 

[herkyMD]

Quick question for those of you dealing with student debt now/have dealt with in the past. Would you recommend doing IBR during residency? (Probably around $400/month in my case) I figured it out and IBR vs deferrment would save me roughly $60,000 through a 4 year residency. Do you think this savings is worth it with the earning potential as an attending? During residency this $400/mo would really help the standard of living for my family. So i'm just curious if you guys think it is worth it for the savings?

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

We need one of these Jet debt threads over in pre-allo. I sizable percentage of us don't understand this issue until we are already neck deep. Never too early to start planning.

 

[NorthGas]

Hi folks,

I have been lurking these forums for some time, but just thought I'd throw in my own experience with all the recent debt-talk that has been going on. I completely agree with Jet, Blade, etc. Debt sucks and will not only haunt you, but limit your freedom. Although I currently practice in Canada, the principles are still the same.

Last year, I was not amongst the lucky few with a full-time position lined up after residency. It's a long story, but my offer was taken away and I was given the reason of "budget constraints" (read: some old fart wouldn't retire fast enough). So come last July, I had no income, no real job prospects, and a fair amount of debt. The only thing I had was a license of practice independently.

In any case, I ended up contacting a couple hospitals in the city where I attended medical school and only received offers for some locum positions. I was desperate for cash, so I filled out the credentialing packages and got to work. Before leaving, they even offered me a couple more weeks in October. With my prospects continuing to look pretty grim and my expenses continuing to pile up, I looked elsewhere. I sold my car, moved all my stuff out of my apartment and back to my parent's place (using it as a home base of sorts), and then headed up north in search of some easier locum jobs.

From then, I began to contact places which either had recently built new hospitals or might be cool to visit. I had to fill out a lot of credentialing and licensure forms, but it wasn't too painful. Eventually word got around of an anesthesiologist looking for locum positions, and before I knew it, I was booking gigs all over the place and had a full schedule at least 6 months out. At this point, the offers were coming in so fast I had to start turning them down!

I only took jobs that focused on either peds, OB, or outpatient surgery, since that's where most of the money could be made (fee for service). I worked like a dog on these jobs and took as much call as I could. These places often had great financial incentives, reimbursing me for relocation, housing, and transportation. The only thing I had to pay for was my food and entertainment. I never had to ask for vacation -- I just wouldn't book a job when I wanted to relax. For the first time since medical school, I was able to take both Christmas and New Years off. I got to travel around and meet some great new people. I was essentially living on the road for free!

So needless to say, since my expenses were so minimal and my income was so high, the debt started to come down... crashing down. And as if I wasn't having enough fun, the hospital that screwed me out of the initial job offer came back with an even sweeter package. I guess the old man finally walked off into the sunset.

On the day I finished residency, my debt stood at $185K. Not as high as some of the good folks around here, but still high enough for me to feel trapped. In about 2 weeks, or just 10 short months after finishing residency, my line of credit will go black for the first time since starting medical school. I am now in the market for a new car, a swanky downtown condo, and a nice long trip to Southeast Asia before starting my dream job.

I kicked the debt in less than a year. I finally feel free. Life is good. 🙂

 

[deleted307836]

Fantastic story, North. Congrats 👍

 

[sazerac]

Good thread, Jet.

Just wondering how many people here are boggleheads? I notice a lot of the ideas presented on this forum resemble those on bogglehead investing boards.

-save emergency fund
-get out of debt
-live below your means
-invest early and often: Vanguard funds 33% 33% 33% : whole domestic, international, bonds.
-rebalance each year as neccesary

IMO Dr. Boggle > Dave Ramsey because Dave stops at getting out of debt.

With the appropriate LifeStrategy or TargetRetirement fund, Vanguard will even rebalance for you automatically.

Bogglehead since 1994. Debt free since 2006.

 

[deleted126335]

Good thread, Jet.

Just wondering how many people here are boggleheads? I notice a lot of the ideas presented on this forum resemble those on bogglehead investing boards.

-save emergency fund
-get out of debt
-live below your means
-invest early and often: Vanguard funds 33% 33% 33% : whole domestic, international, bonds.
-rebalance each year as neccesary

IMO Dr. Boggle > Dave Ramsey because Dave stops at getting out of debt.

Huge fan of Bogleheads. Doing above will outperform most people by far. But if you want to squueze every particle of return out of you portfolio for a given level of risk you will need to do a bit more which will take some time and effort. Learn about multi-asset class investing, tax loss harvesting, and tax management, asset location, value tilting. The Boglehead Wiki has just about everything that you need.

 

[sheeed]

Hi folks,

I have been lurking these forums for some time, but just thought I'd throw in my own experience with all the recent debt-talk that has been going on. I completely agree with Jet, Blade, etc. Debt sucks and will not only haunt you, but limit your freedom. Although I currently practice in Canada, the principles are still the same.

Last year, I was not amongst the lucky few with a full-time position lined up after residency. It's a long story, but my offer was taken away and I was given the reason of "budget constraints" (read: some old fart wouldn't retire fast enough). So come last July, I had no income, no real job prospects, and a fair amount of debt. The only thing I had was a license of practice independently.

In any case, I ended up contacting a couple hospitals in the city where I attended medical school and only received offers for some locum positions. I was desperate for cash, so I filled out the credentialing packages and got to work. Before leaving, they even offered me a couple more weeks in October. With my prospects continuing to look pretty grim and my expenses continuing to pile up, I looked elsewhere. I sold my car, moved all my stuff out of my apartment and back to my parent's place (using it as a home base of sorts), and then headed up north in search of some easier locum jobs.

From then, I began to contact places which either had recently built new hospitals or might be cool to visit. I had to fill out a lot of credentialing and licensure forms, but it wasn't too painful. Eventually word got around of an anesthesiologist looking for locum positions, and before I knew it, I was booking gigs all over the place and had a full schedule at least 6 months out. At this point, the offers were coming in so fast I had to start turning them down!

I only took jobs that focused on either peds, OB, or outpatient surgery, since that's where most of the money could be made (fee for service). I worked like a dog on these jobs and took as much call as I could. These places often had great financial incentives, reimbursing me for relocation, housing, and transportation. The only thing I had to pay for was my food and entertainment. I never had to ask for vacation -- I just wouldn't book a job when I wanted to relax. For the first time since medical school, I was able to take both Christmas and New Years off. I got to travel around and meet some great new people. I was essentially living on the road for free!

So needless to say, since my expenses were so minimal and my income was so high, the debt started to come down... crashing down. And as if I wasn't having enough fun, the hospital that screwed me out of the initial job offer came back with an even sweeter package. I guess the old man finally walked off into the sunset.

On the day I finished residency, my debt stood at $185K. Not as high as some of the good folks around here, but still high enough for me to feel trapped. In about 2 weeks, or just 10 short months after finishing residency, my line of credit will go black for the first time since starting medical school. I am now in the market for a new car, a swanky downtown condo, and a nice long trip to Southeast Asia before starting my dream job.

I kicked the debt in less than a year. I finally feel free. Life is good. 🙂

Great story...lessons to be learned here

 

[pgg]

Huge fan of Bogleheads.

Not sure if I ever explicitly thanked you for pointing me at the boglehead forums. Thanks. 🙂

My accounts were a disorganized, inefficient, high-expense, actively-managed mess. My life is so much easier now.

 

[deleted126335]

You are very welcome.