Student Loan Forgiveness

[BLADEMDA]

As Biden administration leans toward $10,000 in student loan forgiveness, advocates push back

Advocates expressed anger and disappointment on Friday in response to news that the Biden administration is leaning toward $10,000 in student loan relief.

www.cnbc.com

I am curious as to where most of left of center and far-left of center SDN members feel about this topic. Many of you would not receive any forgiveness while residents and students may get $10K.

Of course, I am right of center and think this is a bad idea period. Even though I would benefit from this forgiveness I oppose it on principle.

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[BLADEMDA]

Canceling $10,000 per borrower would cost around $321 billion and completely forgive the loans of about one-third of student loan borrowers.

It’s not clear how the relief would narrow with the income caps, although one analysis found that around 97% of all student debt was held by those making below the proposed thresholds.

Now the administration is looking at imposing income caps of $150,000 for individuals and $300,000 for married couples for the relief, according to The Washington Post.

 

[GassYous]

I think student loan relief is ridiculous. You knew what you were getting into when you took the loan out. What next, loan relief for homeowners that bought too much house? Ridiculous. You signed the paperwork and you are responsible for the debt.

This kind of behavior just tells students and colleges that unlimited increases to tuition is okay. They will just continue to spend irresponsibly as it is other people's money.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

No point in lowering interest rates to contain inflation if it’s paired with these types of fiscal policies

CPI about to print 10%

 

[PainDrain]

I think student loan relief is ridiculous. You knew what you were getting into when you took the loan out. What next, loan relief for homeowners that bought too much house? Ridiculous. You signed the paperwork and you are responsible for the debt.

This kind of behavior just tells students and colleges that unlimited increases to tuition is okay. They will just continue to spend irresponsibly as it is other people's money.

My only objection to the “you knew what you were getting into” argument is for physicians who, like myself, kept getting the farking run around regarding the PSLF and those of us who got railroaded by Congress when they took away the pause on interest during training. They basically were doing the bidding of the student loan industry so f@ck them.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Also I already see people on Twitter saying that it’s not enough. So you can bet it will be much more than 10000

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[anesussy]

No reason for attendings with debt to be mad.

$10k is nothing compared to the $40k+ saved from over 2 years of $0 payments toward PSLF.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

No reason for attendings with debt to be mad.

$10k is nothing compared to the $40k+ saved from over 2 years of $0 payments toward PSLF.

Yes but isn’t there an opportunity cost associated with working at places that qualify for pslf (mainly academics)

 

[BLADEMDA]

Generally, time in forbearance does not count as time in repayment but under the limited PSLF waiver, time in forbearance does apply under specific conditions:

• Borrowers with 12 or more consecutive months in forbearance will have those consecutive months treated as time in repayment if the loan is eligible for consideration under the limited PSLF waiver
• Borrowers with 36 or more cumulative months in forbearance will have all of their time all of their time in forbearance treated as time in repayment if the loan is eligible for consideration under the limited PSLF waiver.

Forbearance that includes the COVID-19 payment pause will not count toward a borrower’s 12-month, 36-month, or less- than- 12-month exceptions.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Suspended Payments Count Toward PSLF and TEPSLF During the COVID-19 Administrative Forbearance
If you have a Direct Loan and work full-time for a qualifying employer during the payment suspension (administrative forbearance), then you will receive credit toward PSLF or TEPSLF for the period of suspension as though you made on-time monthly payments in the correct amount while on a qualifying repayment plan.
To see these qualifying payments reflected in your account, you must submit a PSLF form certifying your employment for the same period of time as the suspension. Your count of qualifying payments toward PSLF is officially updated only when you update your employment certifications.

 

[chessknt]

TCJA gave 5-10x that to businesses in perpetuity who didn't need it. Strange to get upset about handouts for low income people with student loans but not for highly profitable businesses.

 

[nimbus]

As Biden administration leans toward $10,000 in student loan forgiveness, advocates push back

Advocates expressed anger and disappointment on Friday in response to news that the Biden administration is leaning toward $10,000 in student loan relief.

www.cnbc.com

I am curious as to where most of left of center and far-left of center SDN members feel about this topic. Many of you would not receive any forgiveness while residents and students may get $10K.

Of course, I am right of center and think this is a bad idea period. Even though I would benefit from this forgiveness I oppose it on principle.

Fine with me. They need the money more than I do. I went to a private med school when tuition was $16k/yr. My total debt of $60k was paid off less than 1 year after I became an attending. Not to mention my permanent ABA certificate and no MOCA nonsense. I won the birth year lottery. Things were much easier for my generation. I really feel for kids in my daughter’s generation.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

It is going to hurt everybody, rich and poor, if inflation doesn’t come back down to 2%

Inflation is a positive feedback loop. It needs to be contained or it only gets worse.

This is a good historical survey. Notice how “deficit spending” is in the title

I’m for making college more affordable, but the root causes need to be addressed or it will never be fixed.

When Money Dies: The Nightmare of Deficit Spending, Devaluation, and Hyperinflation in Weimar Germany|eBook

When Money Dies is the classic history of what happens when a nation's currency depreciates beyond recovery.In 1923, with its currency effectively worthless (the exchange rate in December of that year was one dollar to 4,200,000,000,000 marks), the German republic was all...

www.barnesandnoble.com

 

[ans2021]

As Biden administration leans toward $10,000 in student loan forgiveness, advocates push back

Advocates expressed anger and disappointment on Friday in response to news that the Biden administration is leaning toward $10,000 in student loan relief.

www.cnbc.com

I am curious as to where most of left of center and far-left of center SDN members feel about this topic. Many of you would not receive any forgiveness while residents and students may get $10K.

Of course, I am right of center and think this is a bad idea period. Even though I would benefit from this forgiveness I oppose it on principle.

Last I saw was that anyone who went to law school or med school is exempt from any loan forgiveness, regardless of income.

 

[chessknt]

It is going to hurt everybody, rich and poor, if inflation doesn’t come back down to 2%

Inflation is a positive feedback loop. It needs to be contained or it only gets worse.

This is a good historical survey. Notice how “deficit spending” is in the title

I’m for making college more affordable, but the root causes need to be addressed or it will never be fixed.

When Money Dies: The Nightmare of Deficit Spending, Devaluation, and Hyperinflation in Weimar Germany|eBook

When Money Dies is the classic history of what happens when a nation's currency depreciates beyond recovery.In 1923, with its currency effectively worthless (the exchange rate in December of that year was one dollar to 4,200,000,000,000 marks), the German republic was all...

www.barnesandnoble.com

Well repeal TCJA and don't do student loan forgiveness. There everybody loses and inflation goes down.

 

[Katheudontas parateroumen]

I have student loans and so does my wife, would love for it to be cancelled but I can see that as farfetched and probably not gonna be a good thing in the long run. I think a common sense thing to do would be to automatically place everyone to a IBR plan; and if someone has loans they made private, then idk, maybe out of luck; maybe an opt back in option? In any case, move everyone who is in PSLF 3-4 years ahead automatically towards the 10 year forgiveness as a thank you for the years of public good sacrifice! Allow all federal loans to be refinanced to a lower rate.

What I don't understand is what is truly stopping any president from perpetually allowing the interest free/no repayment? Is someone really "hurting" from it? Is this the same as just forgiving it anyways? What funds are used for PSLF forgiveness? I don't see people being up in arms about PSLF people getting forgiveness. So if we just move the target closer, maybe it's not so harmful/controversial.

Also, what can be done to stop these crazy tuition hikes? Is it because student loans are federally backed?

 

[JOHNBROCHILL]

I think student loan relief is ridiculous. You knew what you were getting into when you took the loan out. What next, loan relief for homeowners that bought too much house? Ridiculous. You signed the paperwork and you are responsible for the debt.

This kind of behavior just tells students and colleges that unlimited increases to tuition is okay. They will just continue to spend irresponsibly as it is other people's money.

Not quite the same. Buying a home involves downpayment, proof of income, credit check. Done usually as an adult after some real world experience. Then there is taking out 50k/yr as an 18 year old, everyone telling you "go to college, its the right thing to do!" All you need here is the ability to sign a paper. We are in this because of pure greed from schools, some of which have endowment in the billions.

 

[nimbus]

Not quite the same. Buying a home involves downpayment, proof of income, credit check. Done usually as an adult after some real world experience. Then there is taking out 50k/yr as an 18 year old, everyone telling you "go to college, its the right thing to do!" All you need here is the ability to sign a paper. We are in this because of pure greed from schools, some of which have endowment in the billions.

No means testing or future means testing for student loans. Funny money directly into the coiffures of universities. The universities should have some risk and accountability for the loans taken out by their students. If their graduates have a high default rate, it means the products…er degrees…they are selling are worthless and the university should be on the hook for repaying the loans. They’re selling lemons. Spread the loan risk to both parties, maybe the banks too since they are making out like bandits in this enterprise.

 

[maxxor]

I'll just take reduction in my interest rate, thanks. 6.8% sheesh.

 

[UscGhost]

Certainly better than those tax cuts for the rich and businesses.

The economy is driven by consumers at the bottom. That's why the government flooded the public with money during the pandemic (consumer demand dried up due to nobody going on vacation, out to dinner, etc) and why the economy came roaring back (consumers with lots of spending money)

 

[JoelJoel84]

I have a large amount of medical school debt, and while I’d love for it to magically disappear, I know it’s not going to happen, and don’t really agree with the whole full-forgiveness idea in principle.

A good compromise would be just eliminate the interest rate on federal loans; there’s no need for the US Government to be profiting off my loans at 7%, with most people’s monthly payments not even covering that interest, and their total debt ballooning over decades.

 

[maxxor]

I'd love some of these circa 2002 rates kthx.

Historical Federal Student Interest Rates and Fees

The interest rates on federal student loans are among the lowest interest rates available to college students. Interest rates on Federal student loans reset annually on July 1, based on the last 10-year Treasury Note auction in May. Previously the interest rates were pegged to the 91-day T-Bill...

www.savingforcollege.com

 

[okayplayer]

At the risk of coming across like a boomer, my wife and I collectively accrued and have paid off $800,000 in med school student loans. This was done through a lot of hard work and sacrifice on our part.

I wish our student loan balance hadn’t been that high, I wish the rate wasn’t 6.8-8.5%, etc. BUT we signed up for them and we weren’t coerced into doing so. I think we all should own what loans we sign up for, including stud loans, mortgage, etc. without expectation that anyone will pay them for us. If you’d like school paid for, join the military or a public service health care program taking care of low income patients that exists specifically for that reason.

Ready for the onslaught of “ok boomer.”

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

as somebody who comes from a working class family (ie. first to go to school, low enough household income to get full need based at Ivy etc.), I don’t think it’s necessarily fair or right for construction workers, firefighters, bartenders etc. to be paying off doctors loans when the average doctor makes 5x or sometimes even 10x these professions.

If it is in fact means tested then it’s a different story, but a lot of medical residents, SC clerks who will all be making a lot in due time would qualify.

Obviously some will disagree

I do agree with pslf because at least then it usually involves taking a pay cut and serving disadvantaged communities.

 

[nimbus]

I just don’t have strong feelings about the government giving $10k of my tax money to someone who needs it. That’s only 500x$20 cheeseburgers. I’m probably better off not eating all that.


My daughter has a very kind hearted friend who will be graduating in a few days with an Econ degree from UCLA. She has a good job lined up with Bloomberg starting later this summer. Currently she works at a boba shop. She adopted and took home one of the feral cats that was hanging out in our yard. Yesterday my daughter told me she sold her plasma to help pay the vet bill for the cat. I’m more than willing to help people like that.

Orange Julius aka OJ.

 

[The Duck Knows]

Personally I don’t mind if others get assistance with loan repayment and I don’t. That’s life and life isn’t fair. I have a great job and a great life and I want other people to be happy, even if that means me paying slightly higher taxes.

I’ve never understood arguments like “that’s a slap in the face to people who paid off their loans” or “you knew what you were getting into.” You could apply the same logic to all of our gripes about diminishing reimbursement or midlevel encroachment. We knew going in that Medicare and Medicaid were the main drivers of what we end up getting paid, yet now we are surprised to be getting paycuts? We knew that our congressmen and women love making sweetheart deals that benefit lobbyists and hospital administrators, yet we are shocked that they would promote “cheaper” CRNAs and pocket the difference?

Then on the flip side, yes us millennials all “knew what we were getting into,” except for the hundreds of variable like multiple economic crashes (with government bailouts), crazy inflation and housing markets, midlevel encroachment and private equity groups suppressing pay, outsourcing of jobs, increasing taxation of the upper and upper-middle class, etc.

This has turned into a bit of a rant, but if I had to boil it down to a few points I would say:
1. Life isn’t fair and we can’t perfectly control who benefits from change. Sometimes it’s the foolish millennial getting loans forgiven. Sometimes it’s the corporations getting bailed out after greedy, aggressive business strategies bite them in the rear. Sometimes it’s the baby boomers who bought a house in San Diego 40 years ago and see it’s value increase 1000%.
2. I would rather be surrounded by educated people than *****s. For that reason I think we should value education, even liberal arts degrees. We can also address the ridiculous nature of $50k undergraduate tuition, but I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[aneftp]

I’m gonna to play devils advocate here. From 2007-2016? The mortgage and forgiveness loan act allowed a ton of people to escape bad loans and homes under water. It actually made the housing crash even worse from 2008-2012. Cause it was like a get out of jail card.

They didn’t really audit people who walked away from these loans I know tons of peeps in my area who were self employed and walked away.

Usually if u have a debt cancellation (short sale or foreclosure) the irs sends a 1099-C. So they were sure darn never want to mess with irs mortgage and forgiveness especially short sales.

Notice short sales tanked after the law ended. Cause scammers didn’t want to deal
With. 1099C.

So same with student loan forgiveness. If students can show they are making 400% of poverty. Their loans shouldn’t be forgiven. I use the 400% poverty line mark cause that’s the Obamacare requirements. But setting income
Limits of 150k/300k is ridiculous. Biden just trying to buy votes.

 

[OptionOffense]

Leave things as is and in 5 years Med school will be 150k per year if not more, undergrad will be 75 per year and student loans will continue to balloon and more and more people will NOT participate in the economy (buying cars, houses, getting married etc) which will effect everyone. I say forgive the interest on all the loans in existence now and going forward the interest will be nominal, 1 percent or so. Principle would remain outstanding. Then, put schools on notice (they already are.. they know their brand is in trouble.. Im looking at you Ivys). Raise awareness about the actual value of getting an education at a state school vs an ivy league education. Is it that much different? And push the utilization of community colleges.

 

[CHARLESTONMMM]

Let’s be honest college is a scam. If someone can rack up $100k+ on a gender studies degree then something is wrong and until you fix it then there’s no point in subsidizing student loan debt. There needs to be more manufacturing in this country not more art majors.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I'll just take reduction in my interest rate, thanks. 6.8% sheesh.

Why haven't you refinanced yet? We did that a few years ago, got the rate down to 2.75%.

 

[okayplayer]

Why haven't you refinanced yet? We did that a few years ago, got the rate down to 2.75%.

This is a great option and something my wife and I did also post-residency.

When we were in residency there was no option to privately refinance loans because we didn’t make enough money (and no companies were offering it at that time). A LOT of interest accrued.

 

[pgg]

$10K of loan forgiveness is a stupid and unjust idea. I'm disgusted by it to my core for all of these reasons:

1) It's insignificant to the people who are actually drowning in massive student loan debt. It doesn't really help them.

2) It gives NO incentive to universities to fix the underlying problem of runaway costs. They are most of the root cause of the debt problem in the first place, and they suffer no consequences.

3) It's unfair to the people who sacrificed to avoid debt, who won't get a handout. All of the students who worked part time in school instead of taking bigger loans. All of the students who chose a community college for two years before transferring, instead of doing all four years at the expensive university. All of the students who enlisted in the military to earn GI bill benefits before going to college. All of the parents who sacrificed by paying their kids' costs, or contributing to 529s instead of their own 401k. And what about all the kids who simply didn't go to college at all, and instead entered the workforce immediately - their sacrifice is lower lifelong earnings? No $10K freebie for any of those people.


It's pants-on-head, clownshoes, so stupid it should be wearing a helmet.


And it's infuriating because an actually effective and fair solution is so simple:

1) Lower the interest rate to 0% or thereabouts. The ability of borrowers to pay back their debt would dramatically increase if each of their payments wasn't mostly covering interest. It was always outrageous that in an era of historic low interest rates on everything else, student loans were 6.8% or higher.

2) Make student loan debt dischargeable in bankruptcy. For the people truly buried in debt, this is a way out - but one that comes with appropriate consequences to their credit score for a few years. While it's understandable that college kids made bad decisions about taking on excess debt, that bad decision really should be reflected in their credit history for a while, because they actually are higher credit risks.

 

[OptionOffense]

Why haven't you refinanced yet? We did that a few years ago, got the rate down to 2.75%.

you refinanced sure, but not with the govt. Your loans do not have the protections as before

 

[maxxor]

Why haven't you refinanced yet? We did that a few years ago, got the rate down to 2.75%.

The phenomenon of companies refinancing resident loans at a rate which was worth the loss in federal protections did not really pick up until my last years of residency/fellowship (2019-2020). I looked into it but in-training rates were still ~5% versus lower for attendings. Then COVID happened so I stopped looking into it.

 

[Guillemot]

Everyone likes free money. Businesses and rich people like free money. Students and poor people like free money. Middle-class individuals like free money.

I do not like giving away free money because while the money may be free to the recipient, it isn't free to me. I am donating it to all these moochers through my taxes.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The phenomenon of companies refinancing resident loans at a rate which was worth the loss in federal protections did not really pick up until my last years of residency/fellowship (2019-2020). I looked into it but in-training rates were still ~5% versus lower for attendings. Then COVID happened so I stopped looking into it.

Yeah the resident option wasn't a thing for us (I finished in 2013) but getting it as an attending was shockingly easy.

I definitely get not moving on this during COVID given the reprieve everyone got there.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

you refinanced sure, but not with the govt. Your loans do not have the protections as before

Still discharged upon death, all my wife really lost at the time was the disability discharge.

We didn't get the reprieve with COVID and wouldn't get this 10k (not that we would anyway with the income limits).

 

[anesussy]

Let’s be honest college is a scam. If someone can rack up $100k+ on a gender studies degree then something is wrong and until you fix it then there’s no point in subsidizing student loan debt. There needs to be more manufacturing in this country not more art majors.

Not that I don't think gender studies are valuable/stimulating/important, but it's clearly not the path to a high-paying job.

I wish colleges were made to follow the CS bootcamp model of charging a certain % of future income (income share agreement). That would go a long way towards making colleges actually care about their students' future prospects.

edit: Just spoke with a friend and found out income share agreements are in legal trouble right now because (of course) traditional colleges don't like the idea. Their argument is that it's inequitable that people are paying different amounts for the same product. What a joke.

Murica, the land of innovation - until you start undercutting the fatcats. Then it's a problem.

Innovation - but only when it makes the rich richer.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I think that there should be some cutoff date in which all colleges have to either meet full financial need or close. This would both incentivize colleges to cut spending and would also prevent a college bubble (ie prevent so many students from graduating into jobs that don’t pay enough to reduce loans)

 

[OptionOffense]

Who's to say the schools are not in cahoots with the politicians who in turn are in cahoots with the loan servicers and banks who are racking up fees. There is a force to have reform in the industry but in my opinion a BIGGER force to keep the scam going. The chickens are coming home to roost and blowing the lid off the entire scam

 

[anesussy]

Who's to say the schools are not in cahoots with the politicians who in turn are in cahoots with the loan servicers and banks who are racking up fees. There is a force to have reform in the industry but in my opinion a BIGGER force to keep the scam going. The chickens are coming home to roost and blowing the lid off the entire scam

I feel like this is pretty obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense.

 

[cchoukal]

$10K of loan forgiveness is a stupid and unjust idea. I'm disgusted by it to my core for all of these reasons:

1) It's insignificant to the people who are actually drowning in massive student loan debt. It doesn't really help them.

2) It gives NO incentive to universities to fix the underlying problem of runaway costs. They are most of the root cause of the debt problem in the first place, and they suffer no consequences.

3) It's unfair to the people who sacrificed to avoid debt, who won't get a handout. All of the students who worked part time in school instead of taking bigger loans. All of the students who chose a community college for two years before transferring, instead of doing all four years at the expensive university. All of the students who enlisted in the military to earn GI bill benefits before going to college. All of the parents who sacrificed by paying their kids' costs, or contributing to 529s instead of their own 401k. And what about all the kids who simply didn't go to college at all, and instead entered the workforce immediately - their sacrifice is lower lifelong earnings? No $10K freebie for any of those people.


It's pants-on-head, clownshoes, so stupid it should be wearing a helmet.


And it's infuriating because an actually effective and fair solution is so simple:

1) Lower the interest rate to 0% or thereabouts. The ability of borrowers to pay back their debt would dramatically increase if each of their payments wasn't mostly covering interest. It was always outrageous that in an era of historic low interest rates on everything else, student loans were 6.8% or higher.

2) Make student loan debt dischargeable in bankruptcy. For the people truly buried in debt, this is a way out - but one that comes with appropriate consequences to their credit score for a few years. While it's understandable that college kids made bad decisions about taking on excess debt, that bad decision really should be reflected in their credit history for a while, because they actually are higher credit risks.

I'm so leftist it hurts, and I STILL think this is a bad idea. PGG for president!

 

[pgg]

Who's to say the schools are not in cahoots with the politicians who in turn are in cahoots with the loan servicers and banks who are racking up fees. There is a force to have reform in the industry but in my opinion a BIGGER force to keep the scam going. The chickens are coming home to roost and blowing the lid off the entire scam

Well of course

Otherwise their solution would be the one I outlined, and not this awful plan of redirecting taxpayer money (and future federal debt) to the very entities which caused the problem.

What's sad is that people support the $10K forgiveness because they think it's a fair redistribution of wealth.

 

[chessknt]

Well of course

Otherwise their solution would be the one I outlined, and not this awful plan of redirecting taxpayer money (and future federal debt) to the very entities which caused the problem.

What's sad is that people support the $10K forgiveness because they think it's a fair redistribution of wealth.

I am agnostic since the last administration got to shower money all over their favorite people so it makes sense that the next one should too since that is the world we live in but you make salient points. I agree that this arbitrary amount is too small to be meaningful at current criminal interest rates and too widely applied. If they were serious about this they would have a bulletproof means test and direct more money toward those individuals who need it most. You are right in that it doesnt treat the underlying cause of the problem but since businesses, Congress and the judiciary are populated with products of the Ivy system that is as likely to happen as gun control and a national abortion law.

 

[deleted875186]

Didn’t read everything above.

I don’t mind forgiving 10k, I don’t think t argument “I paid my loans so I want everyone else to suffer” is a good argument. As noted above, Trump tax cuts gave away a boatload of taxpayer money to people that didn’t need it. We are all privileged with high paying salaries, but the amount of people with low lying jobs and student loan debt is real, and this would help them.

I agree though that it’s a bad policy. It doesn’t fix the problem. It’s the easiest solution for Biden who I believe would prefer to do nothing on student loans, but he’s trying to buy votes. Solutions are numerous

1. Lower student loan interest rates
2. Automatic IBR signup for everyone
3. Make more student loan interest tax Deductable, or make some portion of student loan payments tax Deductable, or incentivize business to offer student loan repayment assistance with changes in tax code.
4. Put a stricter limit on student loan maximums per year, force schools to contain tuition costs.
5. Make community college free

Sadly I think most of these things that I think most Americans would feel less angered by are probably more expensive for the government, so they’ll never happen. People are making money off student loans and SLABs, sadly it won’t change.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The only thing is that forgiving this right now will almost certainly stoke inflation. Maybe they should repeal the tax cuts and aggressively raise rates but when inflation is at fifty year highs, it’s not time for more fiscal stimulus. Wait until inflation is more tamr

 

[GravelRider]

It never made sense to me that my student debt hovered around 6-8% for some loans, but I could get a loan for a car that I couldn’t afford at 0% interest. There is no reason why student debt has to carry any interest at all.

The universities that took in billions upon billions of easy dollars and essentially used it for fancy landscaping and renovated lobbies should be required to give some of that money back.

The whole student loan system was a scheme devised by politicians, bankers, and universities to transfer wealth from the working and middle class into the pockets of the rich. It should have never existed in the first place. It was a disaster from the start and education costs have skyrocketed because of it. $10k does little to solve the problem and seems more like political pandering to grab headlines. I would rather see universities and banks held accountable for handing out easy money and doing little to reign in costs.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I’m all for being responsible etc. I think the reasons people are comfortable with student loan forgiveness despite the responsibility issue are that the whole education/tuition/loans/student loan servicing system is completely screwed up/corrupt, it is very hard to plan for and predict the future, there’s been massive degree creep with corporations requiring bachelors and higher when not needed (for same pay). and we give bailouts to corporations and others for dumb decision making all the time so why not the little guy who tried to do the tight thing by working hard and getting an education, and there’s a societal benefit to not having a significant portion of people not be drowning in debt and able to participate in the economy.

I think @pgg and @dipriMAN have great suggestions. I would totally be on board with those. Interst should be very low and just enough to cover govt servicing of the loan (not corrupt private servicers).

I also think tuition and loan interest need to be locked in on at the start of the degree. My grad school tuition for a 48 credit degree was $620/credit my first year. I planned for tuition and fee increases each year, but was still shocked when it jumped to $980 my second year and over $1100 the next. All my planning spreadsheets were worthless at that point.

I’m uncomfortable with this idea of worthless degrees. I get the premise. It used to be a college degree showed you had critical thinking skills and were teachable and just about any degree was valuable for getting a job after. Then corporations shifted and wanted people pre-trained essentially and degree creep and more specific degree requirements ensued. There’s value in having art, music, books, and movies. Those are the things that keep me sane after ****show days in the hospital. The world can’t run in STEM alone. Plus value changes considerably over time.

Another example of this is where a news organization contacted a university history dept to ask for an expert on Ukraine and the geopolitical factors behind the war with Russia. They didn’t have one because of funding cuts. They were missing expertise in a lot of other geopolitically important areas as well due to funding cuts. This was happening across the country. But history degrees are often thought of as worthless... until…

So I’m fine with forgiveness and/or the solutions above. That can’t be the only response and the whole dysfunctional, corrupt system needs to be fixed.

*As for inflation, can we also talk about/address the part where major corporations are somehow managing to still have record profits/give massive shareholder payouts right now but insist they have to raise consumers prices cuz inflation? That should be our first target.

 

[chessknt]

The only thing is that forgiving this right now will almost certainly stoke inflation. Maybe they should repeal the tax cuts and aggressively raise rates but when inflation is at fifty year highs, it’s not time for more fiscal stimulus. Wait until inflation is more tamr

I think repealing TCJA would be an incredible move for inflation that will never happen. Even better fund the ****ing IRS so they can actually do their job especially with the rise of crypto.