Sub-3.0 BCPM GPA & Accepted to top 25!

[Jon Davis]

I always just seem to get pulled aside in airport screens, have to take off my belt, my socks, extra layers and essentially felt up by some really heinous looking women, and get my luggage rifled through at just about every airport. (Ok, I know know that showing up unkempt and keeping my piercings in is the right way to do things because a real terrorist makes sure he is really clean for his 72 virgins, go figure....)

Welcome to the Police State of America. This is exactly what happens when people give up freedom for security. All for a cause that is under very heavy suspicion. Like how Hitler burned his own Reichstag and blamed the communists. Give up your freedoms due to fear and live in this kind of world. It has to stop or when will it end?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[letmein!please?]

By the way, URMs compose such a small percentage of most med schools that this really should not be a topic of the utmost concern.

Agreed. It's a useless debate anyway, people for the URM thing think anyone who is against it is young or naive, and vise-versa. I do think, though, that PC-ness is a big factor here...which is an entirely different debate...

 

[Flyfisher]

No joke. I'm not a URM (I'm Indian and dark and I look like a terrorist) and I get followed around in department stores and treated like a criminal in a lot of places. At one Macy's I even had a woman come out into the parking lot after I tried on a shirt to ask me where I left the shirt (it was in the dressing room). I always just seem to get pulled aside in airport screens, have to take off my belt, my socks, extra layers and essentially get felt up by some really heinous looking women, and get my luggage rifled through at just about every airport. (Ok, I know know that showing up unkempt and keeping my piercings in is the right way to do things because a real terrorist makes sure he is really clean for his 72 virgins, go figure....) I know my black and hispanic friends (I grew up in NM, we've got plenty of hispanics. Or as we like to call them: MFs. Mexican Friends, that's right.) have it even worse.
I'm not bitching about this, I deal with it. Despite all this, I'm still an over-represented minority. It's the best of all worlds. Am I upset that I'm not getting into med school? Of course, but I've got to get over that and see what I'm doing wrong rather than grasp blindly at external causes.
It should be said that fewer URMs are college educated, they have a higher infant mortality rate, a lower life-expectancy, they have more out-of-wedlock children, perform worse on the SATs, they earn less, and they are just plain not doing well. Why shouldn't we as a nation do something to address this?

I'm glad someone understands what I'm talking about. for many years I was "race oblivious" but I learned about social justice issues in college and its been eye opening for me. being oblivious is almost as bad as being racist.

 

[Napoleon4000]

Flyfisher...you are truly a master. I hope that people can have their eyes openned more. Maybe they could travel throughout the US and see how dangerous ignorance is. I mean...just look at Kansas! People there are practically through back several thousand years of evolution. Ignorance is a disease, just like CVD, AD and diabetes. It can kill you. Thanks for the heads up Flyfisher.

 

[letmein!please?]

I'm glad someone understands what I'm talking about. for many years I was "race oblivious" but I learned about social justice issues in college and its been eye opening for me. being oblivious is almost as bad as being racist.

aww thats cute

 

[hsvpan]

This is a fun game to play. Pick a top 20 school and look at the list of interview invites for 2006. Try to pick the URMs... no peeking

For example, this is from Northwestern, URMs have stars:
The following profiles matched your search:
brown university, 40 MCAT, 3.38 GPA, applied 2006
Carleton College, 36 MCAT, 3.63 GPA, applied 2006
Case Western Reserve University, 36 MCAT, 3.88 GPA, applied 2006
Case Western Reserve University, 31 MCAT, 3.93 GPA, applied 2006
Columbia University, 38 MCAT, 3.65 GPA, applied 2006
Cornell University, 33 MCAT, 3.82 GPA, applied 2006
*CUNY, 31 MCAT, 3.55 GPA, applied 2006
Dartmouth College, 41 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2006
Emory University, 37 MCAT, 3.79 GPA, applied 2006
Harvard, 36 MCAT, 3.44 GPA, applied 2006
Harvard University, 39 MCAT, 3.81 GPA, applied 2006
Johns Hopkins University, 35 MCAT, 3.46 GPA, applied 2006
Johns Hopkins University, 37 MCAT, 3.67 GPA, applied 2006
Lehigh University, 34 MCAT, 3.86 GPA, applied 2006
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 37 MCAT, 3.77 GPA, applied 2006
Michigan State University, 40 MCAT, 3.97 GPA, applied 2006
*Morgan State University, 28 MCAT, 3.71 GPA, applied 2006
Northwestern University, 35 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2006
Northwestern University, 36 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2006
Pomona College, 38 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2006
Rice University, 34 MCAT, 3.73 GPA, applied 2006
*Simmons College, 30 MCAT, 3.52 GPA, applied 2006
St. Olaf College, 35 MCAT, 3.96 GPA, applied 2006
Stanford, 34 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2006
Stanford University, 35 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2006
The Ohio State University, 34 MCAT, 3.84 GPA, applied 2006
*Towson University, 22 MCAT, 3.32 GPA, applied 2006
UC Berkeley, 40 MCAT, 3.99 GPA, applied 2006
UC Irvine, 34 MCAT, 3.94 GPA, applied 2006
UC San Diego, 34 MCAT, 3.75 GPA, applied 2006
*UC San Diego, 27 MCAT, 3.73 GPA, applied 2006
University of British Columbia, 36 MCAT, 3.58 GPA, applied 2006
University of Colorado, 34 MCAT, 3.61 GPA, applied 2006
University of Michigan, 38 MCAT, 3.76 GPA, applied 2006
University of Michigan, 33 MCAT, 3.60 GPA, applied 2006
*University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, 31 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2006
University of Minnesota - Twin Cities, 37 MCAT, 3.82 GPA, applied 2006
University of North Carolina at Chapel H, 41 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
University of Pittsburgh, 33 MCAT, 3.79 GPA, applied 2006
University of Texas at Austin, 40 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
University of Texas at Austin, 39 MCAT, 3.67 GPA, applied 2006
University of Wisconsin, 36 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2006
University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee, 35 MCAT, 3.79 GPA, applied 2006
Vanderbilt University, 38 MCAT, 3.99 GPA, applied 2006
Washington University - St. Louis, 36 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2006
Washington University in St. Louis, 34 MCAT, 3.59 GPA, applied 2006
Washington University in St. Louis, 31 MCAT, 3.96 GPA, applied 2006
Yale University, 37 MCAT, 3.88 GPA, applied 2006
Yale University, 38 MCAT, 3.92 GPA, applied 2006

 

[Will Ferrell]

This is a fun game to play. Pick a top 20 school and look at the list of interview invites for 2006. Try to pick the URMs... no peeking

you really can't make any conclusions based off MDapplicants. Only superstars make profiles. I'm sure there are many whites & asians with sub-par stats getting interviews.

 

[exmike]

you really can't make any conclusions based off MDapplicants. Only superstars make profiles. I'm sure there are many whites & asians with sub-par stats getting interviews.

Not trying to fan the flames or anything, but you could say that for every ethnic group. One would expect equivalent skewing across all ethnic groups.

 

[MrBurns10]

This is a fun game to play. Pick a top 20 school and look at the list of interview invites for 2006. Try to pick the URMs... no peeking

With your admirably open attitude towards your fellow minority applicants, I promise no URMs are taking your spot in med schools.

 

[Napoleon4000]

Funny, I thought that each school decides whom to award entrance to. I don't recall a "spot" as designated to any one person. This is a form of hubris.

 

[princessd3]

This is a fun game to play. Pick a top 20 school and look at the list of interview invites for 2006. Try to pick the URMs... no peeking

For example, this is from Northwestern, URMs have stars:
The following profiles matched your search:
brown university, 40 MCAT, 3.38 GPA, applied 2006
Carleton College, 36 MCAT, 3.63 GPA, applied 2006
Case Western Reserve University, 36 MCAT, 3.88 GPA, applied 2006
Case Western Reserve University, 31 MCAT, 3.93 GPA, applied 2006
Columbia University, 38 MCAT, 3.65 GPA, applied 2006
Cornell University, 33 MCAT, 3.82 GPA, applied 2006
*CUNY, 31 MCAT, 3.55 GPA, applied 2006
Dartmouth College, 41 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2006
Emory University, 37 MCAT, 3.79 GPA, applied 2006
Harvard, 36 MCAT, 3.44 GPA, applied 2006
Harvard University, 39 MCAT, 3.81 GPA, applied 2006
Johns Hopkins University, 35 MCAT, 3.46 GPA, applied 2006
Johns Hopkins University, 37 MCAT, 3.67 GPA, applied 2006
Lehigh University, 34 MCAT, 3.86 GPA, applied 2006
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 37 MCAT, 3.77 GPA, applied 2006
Michigan State University, 40 MCAT, 3.97 GPA, applied 2006
*Morgan State University, 28 MCAT, 3.71 GPA, applied 2006
Northwestern University, 35 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2006
Northwestern University, 36 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2006
Pomona College, 38 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2006
Rice University, 34 MCAT, 3.73 GPA, applied 2006
*Simmons College, 30 MCAT, 3.52 GPA, applied 2006
St. Olaf College, 35 MCAT, 3.96 GPA, applied 2006
Stanford, 34 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2006
Stanford University, 35 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2006
The Ohio State University, 34 MCAT, 3.84 GPA, applied 2006
*Towson University, 22 MCAT, 3.32 GPA, applied 2006
UC Berkeley, 40 MCAT, 3.99 GPA, applied 2006
UC Irvine, 34 MCAT, 3.94 GPA, applied 2006
UC San Diego, 34 MCAT, 3.75 GPA, applied 2006
*UC San Diego, 27 MCAT, 3.73 GPA, applied 2006
University of British Columbia, 36 MCAT, 3.58 GPA, applied 2006
University of Colorado, 34 MCAT, 3.61 GPA, applied 2006
University of Michigan, 38 MCAT, 3.76 GPA, applied 2006
University of Michigan, 33 MCAT, 3.60 GPA, applied 2006
*University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, 31 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2006
University of Minnesota - Twin Cities, 37 MCAT, 3.82 GPA, applied 2006
University of North Carolina at Chapel H, 41 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
University of Pittsburgh, 33 MCAT, 3.79 GPA, applied 2006
University of Texas at Austin, 40 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
University of Texas at Austin, 39 MCAT, 3.67 GPA, applied 2006
University of Wisconsin, 36 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2006
University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee, 35 MCAT, 3.79 GPA, applied 2006
Vanderbilt University, 38 MCAT, 3.99 GPA, applied 2006
Washington University - St. Louis, 36 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2006
Washington University in St. Louis, 34 MCAT, 3.59 GPA, applied 2006
Washington University in St. Louis, 31 MCAT, 3.96 GPA, applied 2006
Yale University, 37 MCAT, 3.88 GPA, applied 2006
Yale University, 38 MCAT, 3.92 GPA, applied 2006

I believe that's my profile to put an asterisk next to. Let's see, the average MCAT at UMich is about 34. From what I've seen on SDN and MD applicants, you would think that most people who get accepted had scores of 35 and up. How would that average to 34. Doesn't make mathematical sense. I assure you that there are non-URMs being accepted with MCAT scores close to mine. Well all I have to say is thank God I am not defined by an MCAT score. I am a very unique and driven individual with an incredilble story of determination and triumph. Don't mean to be defensive but it upsets me when people make sweeping generalizations without knowing the whole story.

 

[Napoleon4000]

I think that is what most pre-meds are good at...making sweeping generalizations: Let me have this GPA, this MCAT score, this and that leadership activity, but no personality to match. No wonder the majority are stupified by their lack of interviews and rejections. Ofcourse there are a few exceptions. Those shining superstars like the first female valedictorian at the Military Academy in NY a few years back. Not many people can survive the rigors of West Point and excell in academics. She entered medical school and I'm sure not many would question her ability to succeed and strength of character. All of the activities, scores and grades WILL NOT make up for strength of character, courage, work ethic, determination and sincerity. I praise your comment princessd3. Kudos to you! I still remember that people like to project. If you are good, you will project that. Let your light shine, iluminating the darkness; smile; be happy. People will always wonder.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

I think that is what most pre-meds are good at...making sweeping generalizations: Let me have this GPA, this MCAT score, this and that leadership activity, but no personality to match. No wonder the majority are stupified by their lack of interviews and rejections.

Real talk Napoleon... real talk I think you just characterized a good 90% of pre-med SDN'ers on that one... sometimes it saddens me that some of these posters will be my future colleagues, all numbers and no personality

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

I wish I wasn't white.

Tell that to a Katrina victim.

Ok, I have no idea why I've posted on yet another one of these URM threads, but here it is. I looked at your MDapps, you are already in to three medical schools so what's the problem? I just don't understand; I promise there is more to being a minority than Affirmative Action.

 

[jackets5]

Someone made the point about giving preference to an "All-american wide reciever" and to a URM. It is not the same the at all. Being the All-American WR is something tangible, something that requires hard work and dedication (of course it has to do with born talent as well) but being born a minority isnt something tangible. There is no reason at all a minority who grew up in a middle to upper class upbringing, had access to good schools etc get an edge no matter how small it is because of the color of their skin. IMO discrimination by race is diminshing it is more of poor-rich thing. Its so annoying to hear things like "george bush hates black people" give me a break colin powell and condelezza rice are in the highest positions african americans have ever been in our government under george bush. Say George Bush dislikes poor, people fine ill probally end up agreing with you.

 

[somewhere2010]

This is a fun game to play. Pick a top 20 school and look at the list of interview invites for 2006. Try to pick the URMs... no peeking

For example, this is from Northwestern, URMs have stars:
The following profiles matched your search:
brown university, 40 MCAT, 3.38 GPA, applied 2006
Carleton College, 36 MCAT, 3.63 GPA, applied 2006
Case Western Reserve University, 36 MCAT, 3.88 GPA, applied 2006
Case Western Reserve University, 31 MCAT, 3.93 GPA, applied 2006
Columbia University, 38 MCAT, 3.65 GPA, applied 2006
Cornell University, 33 MCAT, 3.82 GPA, applied 2006
*CUNY, 31 MCAT, 3.55 GPA, applied 2006
Dartmouth College, 41 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2006
Emory University, 37 MCAT, 3.79 GPA, applied 2006
Harvard, 36 MCAT, 3.44 GPA, applied 2006
Harvard University, 39 MCAT, 3.81 GPA, applied 2006
Johns Hopkins University, 35 MCAT, 3.46 GPA, applied 2006
Johns Hopkins University, 37 MCAT, 3.67 GPA, applied 2006
Lehigh University, 34 MCAT, 3.86 GPA, applied 2006
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 37 MCAT, 3.77 GPA, applied 2006
Michigan State University, 40 MCAT, 3.97 GPA, applied 2006
*Morgan State University, 28 MCAT, 3.71 GPA, applied 2006
Northwestern University, 35 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2006
Northwestern University, 36 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2006
Pomona College, 38 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2006
Rice University, 34 MCAT, 3.73 GPA, applied 2006
*Simmons College, 30 MCAT, 3.52 GPA, applied 2006
St. Olaf College, 35 MCAT, 3.96 GPA, applied 2006
Stanford, 34 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2006
Stanford University, 35 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2006
The Ohio State University, 34 MCAT, 3.84 GPA, applied 2006
*Towson University, 22 MCAT, 3.32 GPA, applied 2006
UC Berkeley, 40 MCAT, 3.99 GPA, applied 2006
UC Irvine, 34 MCAT, 3.94 GPA, applied 2006
UC San Diego, 34 MCAT, 3.75 GPA, applied 2006
*UC San Diego, 27 MCAT, 3.73 GPA, applied 2006
University of British Columbia, 36 MCAT, 3.58 GPA, applied 2006
University of Colorado, 34 MCAT, 3.61 GPA, applied 2006
University of Michigan, 38 MCAT, 3.76 GPA, applied 2006
University of Michigan, 33 MCAT, 3.60 GPA, applied 2006
*University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, 31 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2006
University of Minnesota - Twin Cities, 37 MCAT, 3.82 GPA, applied 2006
University of North Carolina at Chapel H, 41 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
University of Pittsburgh, 33 MCAT, 3.79 GPA, applied 2006
University of Texas at Austin, 40 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
University of Texas at Austin, 39 MCAT, 3.67 GPA, applied 2006
University of Wisconsin, 36 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2006
University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee, 35 MCAT, 3.79 GPA, applied 2006
Vanderbilt University, 38 MCAT, 3.99 GPA, applied 2006
Washington University - St. Louis, 36 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2006
Washington University in St. Louis, 34 MCAT, 3.59 GPA, applied 2006
Washington University in St. Louis, 31 MCAT, 3.96 GPA, applied 2006
Yale University, 37 MCAT, 3.88 GPA, applied 2006
Yale University, 38 MCAT, 3.92 GPA, applied 2006

wait a minute...so you ACTUALLY went through 49 profiles to see who was a URM and make this point to us? you've got issues! and i assure you that being black, hispanic, or native american would not resolve them...

i'd also like to point out that i, a URM, did not receive an interview invitation from northwestern. i hope that makes you feel better, hsvpan

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

Its so annoying to hear things like "george bush hates black people"

I take it you're not a Kanye West fan

 

[drmota]

ben folds-

sorry nobody has responded to your question yet. its kinda sad that a lot of people post on SDN just cuz they like hearing their own voices (e-voices, whatever).

URMs have an advantage because for a given population of hispanics or blacks there aren't an equivalent number of hispanic/black physicians out there. So if the black population in America is around 12% they want to make sure that about 12% of doctors are black too. Now, obviously a white doctor can treat a black patient just as well as any other doctor but people like to think that a black doctor will most likely practice in an area that is heavily populated by people of his/her own race. And I can't help but think that this is at least somewhat accurate, except for the rare exceptions. My dad is Iranian, and I'd say about 50% of his patients are Iranian as well (many of whom can't speak English and feel more comfortable having an Iranian doctor) So, I think you have your perceptions of URMs a little skewed...its not about what kind of upbringing (rich or poor) they had, its about them serving their own communities once they are certified MDs. Don't let this bog you down. In the end it'll only make you a better doctor. I'm not necessarily a gungho affirmative action advocate but I see and can understand WHY it exists. And I commend it at times. Either way, I respect you from your posts in the past and don't want this to get you in trouble down the line. Just focus on your own goals and you'll be money. rock and roll.
-mota

 

[jackets5]

Kayne west is a terrible rapper, i want to choke myself everytime i hear that golddigger song. hes a good producer but as a rapper he is crap. Its like when puffy started rapping he was following in Biggie's coatails, Kayne is doing the same thing off of Jay-z. It seems all you have to do is throw some crappy, pop sounding hook into a song. I love rap music and alot of it is crap. They had to kill biggie and Pac, why not someone like Chingy

I take it you're not a Kanye West fan

 

[MrBurns10]

Kayne west is a terrible rapper, i want to choke myself everytime i hear that golddigger song. hes a good producer but as a rapper he is crap. Its like when puffy started rapping he was following in Biggie's coatails, Kayne is doing the same thing off of Jay-z. It seems all you have to do is throw some crappy, pop sounding hook into a song. I love rap music and alot of it is crap. They had to kill biggie and Pac, why not someone like Chingy

Well, at least we agree on something! I can't stand Kanye West either...he was my college's last day of classes concert when I was a junior and it BLEW. I think he was on for like 40 minutes total.

And considering GW Bush is the first president in decades to have absolutely no Jews in his cabinet, he seems more anti-Jew than anti-black, regardless of his stance on Israel.

 

[LooKing4Ward]

URM = Under Represented Minority

I think it's actually "under represented in medicine" now (which I guess is suppose to mean any race under represented in medicine).

They're trying to get away from "under represented minority" which consisted of Blacks, Mexican-Americans, Native Americans (that is, American Indians, Alaska Natives, and Native Hawaiians), and mainland Puerto Ricans.

How much the new definition is put into practice is up for debate?

 

[Saluki]

.
It should be said that fewer URMs are college educated, they have a higher infant mortality rate, a lower life-expectancy, they have more out-of-wedlock children, perform worse on the SATs, they earn less, and they are just plain not doing well. Why shouldn't we as a nation do something to address this?

I think that we as a nation should do something to address this. But I don't think lowering the bar for minority applicants is the way to do it; the only real solution is to improve the education level at the elementary and high school levels, and an organization called Teach for America is already working on it....

 

[jebus]

I think that we as a nation should do something to address this. But I don't think lowering the bar for minority applicants is the way to do it; the only real solution is to improve the education level at the elementary and high school levels, and an organization called Teach for America is already working on it....

Teach for America and AmeriCorps are great! And you're right, AA is not enough! I can think of nothing more offensive than the implicit racism of lowered expectations. It would be great if we had complimentary programs to Teach for America, because the problem is not just about secondary education. I would go into this more but I don't know much about it and I really don't want to get all pedagogical and nerdy - especially about stuff that I don't know about.
And if you work for Teach for America you get clothed, too!

 

[masterMood]

does this discussion really matter? In the end, the type of doctor that you become depends not on your skin color but how well you do in med. school. So what if you get into Harvard Med with a 3.0/4.0 gpa and 25 mcat score with urm status. Does this mean that you have it made? If you couldn't pull off at least an average score (like 3.6 and 30 mcat), then you will definitely have decreased performance compared to the rest of the class. Even if you work your ass off at Harvard Med School, something about your background says that you aren't really prepared as the other students. So the end result is that you will become a doctor, but not necessarily in the field you want. This is because you can't become a neurosurgeon with mediocre stats since you'll end up most likely being a bad neurosurgeon. Not that i'm saying a person will, but this is what I think will happen most likely.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

They had to kill biggie and Pac, why not someone like Chingy

Real talk jacket.... real talk

 

[nena]

this is how i look at this whole situation. URMs are compared to URMs only. adcoms pick the best of the group. i can be hispanic and still have good stats but not get in because there are other hispanics out there with better stats. unfortunently the caucasians are competing with cream of the crop, i.e. 4.0, +35 mcat. so does it suck that you are white and are not at the top of your game as your other white counterparts? yea it does. but it also sucks to be black, or hispanic and not get in because youre also not at the top of your game compared to the caucasion applicants AND the other URM applicants.

this whole process is one of hardship and unfairness. is it fair that you really want to be a doc and not get in, and then someone you know that could care less if they get in, gets accepted? no its, not. but you just suck it in, and make the sacrifices you need to make to get yourself ahead, regardless of your race. if i have to be broke for a whole semester so i can dedicate myself to school, then thats what i'll do. but you gotta sacrifice stuff to get ahead, and its those that do, that get to where they are at; not those that sit there and complain about their crappy life.

now congrats to the OP. URM or not, you made it, now go kick ass while you're in school!

 

[benelswick]

I argree with Da mota on all counts. AA = Imperfect tools for a perfectly messed up human situation.

To all my over-represented bro's/sis's who are frustrated, who work full-time, pay their own way through college, who have no time to augment their applications, who struggle to pay the rent while trying to study under the pressure of competing against kids who have more time and some of whom will not have to compete at the same performance level due to a particular ethnicity...........LET IT GO! These are fruitless concerns.

Focus on the game afoot. Be crafted by its design. Waste no energy worrying about what others do off the field. The game is in the here and now of your own life. If we really could experience the passage into to this place that the ancestors of some our competitors experienced i can safely bet any feelings of animosity would fade away.

You have only yourself to answer for. When faced with the questions of how you can best serve as a physician in any situaion or problem you'll be faced with, how so-n-so got into med school will never enter your mind. Peace,--ben.

 

[LooKing4Ward]

If I do very well in everything else, but I have a very low gpa and there are URM programs out there whose gpa requirements I meet, then I would like to have the advantage of URM status, because there aren't very many programs out there for me.

 

[Chinorean]

this is how i look at this whole situation. URMs are compared to URMs only. adcoms pick the best of the group. i can be hispanic and still have good stats but not get in because there are other hispanics out there with better stats. unfortunently the caucasians are competing with cream of the crop, i.e. 4.0, +35 mcat. so does it suck that you are white and are not at the top of your game as your other white counterparts? yea it does. but it also sucks to be black, or hispanic and not get in because youre also not at the top of your game compared to the caucasion applicants AND the other URM applicants.

Hmmm...I really hope this is not how the process really works, because that implies that there IS a quota to be filled. If you're going to compare each group against itself, in order to fill up your class you would have to say: Ok we need 100 whites, 20 asians, 10 blacks and a partridge in a pear tree...etc. etc.

I wish I had some real statistics to look at (mdapplicants is such a poor indicator) of how many URMs apply each year and how many are accepted. So I will have to go by my limited knowledge instead, and I apologize in advance because it may tick some of you off.

I think that there aren't that many URMs applying to medical school to begin with. In general, a lot of people who start out pre-med drop out when they think they don't have a chance because of poor MCATs and GPAs. So in order to select the "cream of the crop" of the URMs as you stated, there probably aren't enough for all the schools to share around. I mean, top 10% of an already small number won't come out to much. In order to fill a quota, the school would have to think--well this person might not go to my school, so I am also going to accept a lesser candidate to fill in the spot. So conceivably the URMs who aren't at the top of their game have a decent shot at going to a great school...but it wouldn't work the same for non-URMs because the volume of applicants would give a large number of top 10%-ers.

 

[princessd3]

does this discussion really matter? In the end, the type of doctor that you become depends not on your skin color but how well you do in med. school. So what if you get into Harvard Med with a 3.0/4.0 gpa and 25 mcat score with urm status. Does this mean that you have it made? If you couldn't pull off at least an average score (like 3.6 and 30 mcat), then you will definitely have decreased performance compared to the rest of the class. Even if you work your ass off at Harvard Med School, something about your background says that you aren't really prepared as the other students. So the end result is that you will become a doctor, but not necessarily in the field you want. This is because you can't become a neurosurgeon with mediocre stats since you'll end up most likely being a bad neurosurgeon. Not that i'm saying a person will, but this is what I think will happen most likely.

Is it really that cut and dry?

 

[mitosisman123]

This whole URM thing is BS and, I dont support it!!! AA is just a welfare(handout) for rich and middle class URM's... IF only 500 black and 500 hispanics can get in on merit then that is how many should be in med school... I dont understand why a urm who has 3.5 and 30 should be boosted to JHU and UMICH??? Let the qualified URM's get rewarded and let the dumber ones goes to schools where they have the merit to be at... One last point: If you look at the URM stats most URMS could get into at least a DO school thus, if that is what they merit that is where they should be!!!

 

[Beau Geste]

Well, at least we agree on something! I can't stand Kanye West either...he was my college's last day of classes concert when I was a junior and it BLEW. I think he was on for like 40 minutes total.

And considering GW Bush is the first president in decades to have absolutely no Jews in his cabinet, he seems more anti-Jew than anti-black, regardless of his stance on Israel.

Incorrect. Michael Chertoff, Secretery of the Department of Homeland Security is also an Isreali citizen (via his mother, El Al's first flight attendant), and his grandfather was a Jew from Russia. His father is also a rabbi. Bush also has Americans that are from african, asian, and hispanic descent in his cabinet as well.

 

[jebus]

I wish I had some real statistics to look at of how many URMs apply each year and how many are accepted.

Here you go, this is MCAT scores and GPAs by race for 2005. It's for both matriculants and applicants:
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2005/mcatgparaceeth.htm
I think it's interesting just how few URMs actually applied and matriculated last year.... there were only like 3000 URM matriculants.

 

[jackets5]

Your using terrible logic by saying letting the dumber ones in. Some people have real bad circumstances growing, lack of money, quality of education. The problem i have with AA and i think it is for most. AA really dosent try to help the people who need and deserve a chance. AA goes to help the upper middle class and upper class URM's who have had quality education and a stable financial situation. There is really no excuse for letting someone in with special consideration because of their race when their parents are making $100k a year, they have had no hardships. A hardship is not knowing if your going eat on a given day or where your going to live next month. Im sorry not being able to get a cab in the blink of an eye is not a hardship it is an incoveince or having to settle for a coach bag instead of a louis vuiton. To say that simply being a minority puts you at a disadvantage and you cant compete with the rest of the field is racist in its self. Let AA go to help the poor and truly disadvantaged and alot less people would have a problem with.

This whole URM thing is BS and, I dont support it!!! AA is just a welfare(handout) for rich and middle class URM's... IF only 500 black and 500 hispanics can get in on merit then that is how many should be in med school... I dont understand why a urm who has 3.5 and 30 should be boosted to JHU and UMICH??? Let the qualified URM's get rewarded and let the dumber ones goes to schools where they have the merit to be at... One last point: If you look at the URM stats most URMS could get into at least a DO school thus, if that is what they merit that is where they should be!!!

 

[beponychick]

This whole URM thing is BS and, I dont support it!!! AA is just a welfare(handout) for rich and middle class URM's... IF only 500 black and 500 hispanics can get in on merit then that is how many should be in med school... I dont understand why a urm who has 3.5 and 30 should be boosted to JHU and UMICH??? Let the qualified URM's get rewarded and let the dumber ones goes to schools where they have the merit to be at... One last point: If you look at the URM stats most URMS could get into at least a DO school thus, if that is what they merit that is where they should be!!!

ignorance is bliss!!!

 

[mitosisman123]

ignorance is bliss!!!

What was ignorant about my post??Most Americans would agree with me... Lets cut the PC... If the majority in a country do not support a policy the minority should have to live with it...

Thank God for Judge Alito, hopefully this discussion will be gone in 2-3 years

 

[MrBurns10]

Incorrect. Michael Chertoff, Secretery of the Department of Homeland Security is also an Isreali citizen (via his mother, El Al's first flight attendant), and his grandfather was a Jew from Russia. His father is also a rabbi. Bush also has Americans that are from african, asian, and hispanic descent in his cabinet as well.

So he appointed one, in his second term. Still not very impressive. I mean, Pat Buchanan had a black female as his presidential running mate, but do you really think he's all about equality? Anyway it doesnt matter, it was just a side note. I don't want to get into yet another argument about our president since that seems to happen to me WAY too often

 

[jebus]

Judge Alito, hopefully this discussion will be gone in 2-3 years

You know, the sad part is you're probably right about this... whether this is positive or negative is certainly up for debate...

 

[MrBurns10]

Your using terrible logic by saying letting the dumber ones in. Some people have real bad circumstances growing, lack of money, quality of education. The problem i have with AA and i think it is for most. AA really dosent try to help the people who need and deserve a chance. AA goes to help the upper middle class and upper class URM's who have had quality education and a stable financial situation. There is really no excuse for letting someone in with special consideration because of their race when their parents are making $100k a year, they have had no hardships. A hardship is not knowing if your going eat on a given day or where your going to live next month. Im sorry not being able to get a cab in the blink of an eye is not a hardship it is an incoveince. To say that simply being a minority puts you at a disadvantage and you cant compete with the rest of the field is racist in its self. Let AA go to help the poor and truly disadvantaged and alot less people would have a problem with.

my point exactly

 

[mitosisman123]

Your using terrible logic by saying letting the dumber ones in. Some people have real bad circumstances growing, lack of money, quality of education. The problem i have with AA and i think it is for most. AA really dosent try to help the people who need and deserve a chance. AA goes to help the upper middle class and upper class URM's who have had quality education and a stable financial situation. There is really no excuse for letting someone in with special consideration because of their race when their parents are making $100k a year, they have had no hardships. A hardship is not knowing if your going eat on a given day or where your going to live next month. Im sorry not being able to get a cab in the blink of an eye is not a hardship it is an incoveince or having to settle for a coach bag instead of a louis vuiton. To say that simply being a minority puts you at a disadvantage and you cant compete with the rest of the field is racist in its self. Let AA go to help the poor and truly disadvantaged and alot less people would have a problem with.

AA is in its last days

 

[Napoleon4000]

I feel bad for Native Americans, not only did they have their country taken away, but they have to watch those same people parade huge ballons of children's toys on Thanksgiving. Personally, I'm not a fan of giving thanks only once a year. And, when I look at my class, there really is not as much diversity as people think there are. This is a form of speculation, but I wonder that the demographics of schools around the country would be like without Affirmative Action? Like every other tool in society, AA is imperfect, but because of it there has been an increase in divesity in schools around the country. Blacks will still outnumber whites in prison. Hispanics/Latinos will still have high rates of pregnancy and AIDS at younger ages. The overprivileged and sanctamonious people will still go to professional school. And we will still have ignorance running rampant throughout the majority of this country. Education tends to make some people think they are royalty. At some point, our healthcare system will collapse in on itself. Perhaps, AA is a bad idea. Perhaps we should not grant opporunity to people of different backgrounds. Maybe your MCAT score equals your personality. Funny. It's like we are going backwards in time. People get pissy because they had an opportunity taken from them. WELL GUESS WHAT...THAT'S LIFE. People talking about "spots" like it's their own. Just look around you at conferences, your classrooms, your medical/law school class/graduate classes. The number of URM's is small. I guess fear and insecurity arise because of inadquacies we all have. Sad...very sad. Just be glad for the post. Be glad that someone succeeded inspite of adversity. So many of you are self righteous! Why? Good grades and high scores are only one part of the big picture. Just go to Kansas, as I did. Or Oklahoma or Texas. People are ignorant. Very dangerous these times are. Careful we must be not to be lured to the dark side. Meditate on this some more I will.

 

[lynn42]

Most of you are not understanding the reason adcoms participate in AA. It is to fix a PROBLEM. AA helps to pump physicians into 4,000 governmentally designated locations with severe health care shortages. Within these areas, 35 million people are inhabitants- most of whom are MINORITIES. 35 million people are not receiving basic health care because there aren't enough physicians in those areas. There is simply a shortage of health care. Now to my point: It is human nature to surround yourself with people who have the same attitudes and beliefs as yourself. Hence, physicians are more likely to have patients that are the same ethnicity as themselves. Thus, it is hoped that URM's in medicine will alleviate this problem by helping other MONORITIES. I totally see where the adcoms are coming from. URM's have to take the same boards and pass the same classes. For whatever reasons, URM's have lower stats. Who cares. Worry about yourselves and not if some "URM is taking YOUR spot in med school." Understand why they are being accepted. Medicine is about HELPING people and releiving suffering. As med school applicants, you ALL should support that. If it takes lowing stats to matriculate URM into medicine, who cares??? It will help the sick of America. I think it is wonderful.

 

[heatherkmd]

Firstly, CONGRATS TO HOPE! What a great story and I am happy for you~ and amen to what Napoleon just wrote~ life is not fair~ adjust, work harder and move on! what other choice do we have! ?
Fellow URM,
Heatherkmd

I feel bad for Native Americans, not only did they have their country taken away, but they have to watch those same people parade huge ballons of children's toys on Thanksgiving. Personally, I'm not a fan of giving thanks only once a year. And, when I look at my class, there really is not as much diversity as people think there are. This is a form of speculation, but I wonder that the demographics of schools around the country would be like without Affirmative Action? Like every other tool in society, AA is imperfect, but because of it there has been an increase in divesity in schools around the country. Blacks will still outnumber whites in prison. Hispanics/Latinos will still have high rates of pregnancy and AIDS at younger ages. The overprivileged and sanctamonious people will still go to professional school. And we will still have ignorance running rampant throughout the majority of this country. Education tends to make some people think they are royalty. At some point, our healthcare system will collapse in on itself. Perhaps, AA is a bad idea. Perhaps we should not grant opporunity to people of different backgrounds. Maybe your MCAT score equals your personality. Funny. It's like we are going backwards in time. People get pissy because they had an opportunity taken from them. WELL GUESS WHAT...THAT'S LIFE. People talking about "spots" like it's their own. Just look around you at conferences, your classrooms, your medical/law school class/graduate classes. The number of URM's is small. I guess fear and insecurity arise because of inadquacies we all have. Sad...very sad. Just be glad for the post. Be glad that someone succeeded inspite of adversity. So many of you are self righteous! Why? Good grades and high scores are only one part of the big picture. Just go to Kansas, as I did. Or Oklahoma or Texas. People are ignorant. Very dangerous these times are. Careful we must be not to be lured to the dark side. Meditate on this some more I will.

 

[somewhere2010]

This whole URM thing is BS and, I dont support it!!! AA is just a welfare(handout) for rich and middle class URM's... IF only 500 black and 500 hispanics can get in on merit then that is how many should be in med school... I dont understand why a urm who has 3.5 and 30 should be boosted to JHU and UMICH??? Let the qualified URM's get rewarded and let the dumber ones goes to schools where they have the merit to be at... One last point: If you look at the URM stats most URMS could get into at least a DO school thus, if that is what they merit that is where they should be!!!

yeah, you have a point. but the purpose of the "URM advantage" is not to make URMs happy and ORMs bitter, but to increase the number of URMs in all areas of medicine in order to result in a likely increase in the number of minorities who will receive health care.

as for the admissions process, super high GPAs, MCAT scores, and URM status are all ways of people standing out to med schools: the former reasons because they look good, and the latter because it serves to increase service to underserved communities. as for "undeserving" URMs getting into top schools, this is probably a way of facilitating entry of URMs into all fields of medicine by having the name of a top med school and all of its resources at your fingertips before residency.

the truth is, people at the worst and the best med schools are all smart enough to be doctors, maybe even (gasp!) neurosurgeons, so weighing the academic greatness of one intelligent applicant against another won't necessarily tell you who has more potential for a successful career in medicine...in my humble opinion.

 

[jackets5]

If the point of AA is to make people work in underserved areas then how come minorities tend to work in these underserved areas at about the same rate as other groups. If your a upper middle class minority, odds you are going to work in an upper middle class area. Also, i dont want to hear that there is a shortage of doctors in these areas that only having AA will help, there is a doctor shortage in america as a whole. Guess, what if it is the only job a majority doctor can get is working in an underserved area he or she will work in that area.

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

If the point of AA is to make people work in underserved areas then how come minorities tend to work in these underserved areas at about the same rate as other groups. If your a upper middle class minority, odds you are going to work in an upper middle class area. Also, i dont want to hear that there is a shortage of doctors in these areas that only having AA will help, there is a doctor shortage in america as a whole. Guess, what if it is the only job a majority doctor can get is working in an underserved area he or she will work in that area.

This is not true. Maybe you should read up on health disparities

http://www.tcwf.org/news_archive/june_9_2003.htm

 

[nena]

why are you guys assuming that upper, middle class URMs are being accepted based on their URM status?? maybe they're getting accepted b/c they have good stats comparable to those of the other races. those that are getting accepted with lower stats could be the lower class URMs and not necessarily the middle and higher class URMs.

 

[gostudy]

Every single AA/URM debate I read on SDN is absolutely hilarious. It's basically similar to any other message board where people rant. It is usually insecure people ranting. For example, the skinny distance runners that rant on letsrun.com are middle of the road runners who wish they could be national caliber so they take shots at other teams and runners. In the case of SDN, you don't see any 4.0 40+ whites/east-asians ranting on these AA/URM threads because they got their s*** done in undergrad. Those whites/asians that are posting are just insecure that like 5-15 URMs are gonna take their spots in a given class. Seriously, AA would be a real problem if it resulted in an OVER-representation of URMs in med school, but the fact of the matter is that it does not. AA may be flawed but it's all we got about now. So anyone URM or non-URM that is insecure about their situation should pack it in instead of taking potshots at schools they can't get into.

 

[somewhere2010]

If the point of AA is to make people work in underserved areas then how come minorities tend to work in these underserved areas at about the same rate as other groups. If your a upper middle class minority, odds you are going to work in an upper middle class area. Also, i dont want to hear that there is a shortage of doctors in these areas that only having AA will help, there is a doctor shortage in america as a whole. Guess, what if it is the only job a majority doctor can get is working in an underserved area he or she will work in that area.

minorities who live in areas populated primarily by other minorities often do not feel comfortable with, or do not as readily trust, doctors of other racial or ethnic groups, particularly those by whom they may feel threatened for one reason or another. i think it's really sad, but it's reality...thus, one of the best ways to effectively treat many minority populations is with doctors of their same racial or ethnic group.

i don't have any numbers to quote, but i think that more minority medical students - as health disparities are becoming increasingly publicized to the middle and upper classes - will spend time during their careers serving lower-income minority communities.

this is all the neat, logical thought behind this facet of the admissions process...but schools are likely more interested in making themselves look good in the short-term by having a relatively high percentage of URM students than in the aforementioned health care goals. there are probably similarly thought out theories that result in mystical, unfair admissions practices, like wanting well-rounded students over bookworms...the nerve!

 

[jackets5]

Its not complaining by people they are debating the situation and stating their views it dosent mean their complaining. Hypothetically, what if they said there arent enough white guys in the NBA, so less skilled white players will take away 2 or 3 rosters spots per team, would that be okay since they are URM in the NBA. The reason people make the claim it is all upper/middle class URM getting the advantage ( which i truly believe is true, from my own experiences) is because there is no stipulation or provisions to make sure that the opportunities provided by AA go to the people who have experienced real hardships. I would find much more acceptable and absolutely correct to give a spot/chance to a minority that grew up absolutley impoverished and had a 2.8 and 24 than a minority who has a 3.2 and 26 who grew up in a middle classs upbrining with went to quality schools, and had no REAL worries growing up.