Sub-par applicant seeking advice

[riced]

Hello, thank you for reading my post!

I realize this is my first post, but I've come to understand that the people who browse these forums know a lot more about the application process than I do. With that said, I would love any advice I could get from all of you.

I recently graduated from a 4 year university with a BS in physiology with a cGPA of 2.85. The reason for the low GPA is for a multitude of reasons, but primarily my immaturity and lack of focus in school. So the summer after graduation I decided to study my butt off for the MCAT because I knew that was the only chance I had. After about 400+ hours, I landed a 35, which I was very happy with.

I've only shadowed one doc, volunteered at a hospital for 100+ hrs, no research at school... On paper I'm that that outstanding. So my question is what I should do at this point. My plan at the moment is to apply for an SMP (EVMS, UofCinnc, CaseWestern, etc) and prove that I can handle the medical school coursework after a year of attendance. I would apply to MD afterwards.

And I could ask this in the DO thread, but I'm not sure how a 2.85 and 35 would hold up against DO schools. My GPA is so subterranean I can't fathom an acceptance letter without any sort of post-bacc.

So should I apply for a post-bacc (SMP most likely) or will I have no chance with that as well? I know that some SMP have GPA requirements like 2.75 or 3.0, but I'm hoping that my 35 MCAT will make up for my low GPA. I would rather go for this SMP than take more quarters of undergrad because I'd just be repeating courses. What do you guys think? Do I have a shot at an SMP or other postbacc programs?

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[492618]

Hello, thank you for reading my post!

I realize this is my first post, but I've come to understand that the people who browse these forums know a lot more about the application process than I do. With that said, I would love any advice I could get from all of you.

I recently graduated from a 4 year university with a BS in physiology with a cGPA of 2.85. The reason for the low GPA is for a multitude of reasons, but primarily my immaturity and lack of focus in school. So the summer after graduation I decided to study my butt off for the MCAT because I knew that was the only chance I had. After about 400+ hours, I landed a 35, which I was very happy with.

I've only shadowed one doc, volunteered at a hospital for 100+ hrs, no research at school... On paper I'm that that outstanding. So my question is what I should do at this point. My plan at the moment is to apply for an SMP (EVMS, UofCinnc, CaseWestern, etc) and prove that I can handle the medical school coursework after a year of attendance. I would apply to MD afterwards.

And I could ask this in the DO thread, but I'm not sure how a 2.85 and 35 would hold up against DO schools. My GPA is so subterranean I can't fathom an acceptance letter without any sort of post-bacc.

So should I apply for a post-bacc (SMP most likely) or will I have no chance with that as well? I know that some SMP have GPA requirements like 2.75 or 3.0, but I'm hoping that my 35 MCAT will make up for my low GPA. I would rather go for this SMP than take more quarters of undergrad because I'd just be repeating courses. What do you guys think? Do I have a shot at an SMP or other postbacc programs?

The GPA is going to hurt you anywhere I'd imagine. If you did DO grade replacement and retook 3-4 courses, would that dramatically raise your GPA?

But if you can get into a SMP and feel confident you can do strongly in it, then it's worth considering that.

Definitely apply MD and DO though.

 

[Goro]

An MCAT of 45 will not make up for your non-competitive GPA (for either MD or DO). You need to demonstrate that you can handle medical school. Best bet will be SMP. These programs are a dime a dozen, so you can find one that will take you.

Hello, thank you for reading my post!

I realize this is my first post, but I've come to understand that the people who browse these forums know a lot more about the application process than I do. With that said, I would love any advice I could get from all of you.

I recently graduated from a 4 year university with a BS in physiology with a cGPA of 2.85. The reason for the low GPA is for a multitude of reasons, but primarily my immaturity and lack of focus in school. So the summer after graduation I decided to study my butt off for the MCAT because I knew that was the only chance I had. After about 400+ hours, I landed a 35, which I was very happy with.

I've only shadowed one doc, volunteered at a hospital for 100+ hrs, no research at school... On paper I'm that that outstanding. So my question is what I should do at this point. My plan at the moment is to apply for an SMP (EVMS, UofCinnc, CaseWestern, etc) and prove that I can handle the medical school coursework after a year of attendance. I would apply to MD afterwards.

And I could ask this in the DO thread, but I'm not sure how a 2.85 and 35 would hold up against DO schools. My GPA is so subterranean I can't fathom an acceptance letter without any sort of post-bacc.

So should I apply for a post-bacc (SMP most likely) or will I have no chance with that as well? I know that some SMP have GPA requirements like 2.75 or 3.0, but I'm hoping that my 35 MCAT will make up for my low GPA. I would rather go for this SMP than take more quarters of undergrad because I'd just be repeating courses. What do you guys think? Do I have a shot at an SMP or other postbacc programs?

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

Your chances aren't good without more courses, but they aren't zero either.

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html

 

[Etyan]

Do I have a shot at an SMP or other postbacc programs?

There are plenty of both. Let me ask you this: do you have a general idea of schools you're a strong match for? The reason why I ask is because different schools will approach SMP/post-bacc work differently (and a select few won't care for either). If there's a school that is a good 'fit' for you - in terms of shared vision, opportunities, etc, then it wouldn't hurt to gear yourself towards meeting their expectations.

Also, be aware that many of the 'best' SMPs are looking to take in students who *should* have gotten into medical school already with their stats, but for one reason or another, did not. Those high MD acceptance rates you see on their sites? Yeah, top SMPs want assurances that any new class they accept can keep those numbers up. This usually means accepting applicants with either 3.4+ or 33+ MCATs - and, yes, these are the kids you will be compared to. In some programs they may be your direct competitors

Nonetheless your MCAT should open doors for you. Is there a strong upward GPA trend? How will you be beefing up your ECs? Your MD application should be ready to go before your SMP begins to give you a good chance in the cycle.

As for postbaccs ... in many cases, an informal post-bacc seems to be a popular (and more financially palatable) route. It does generally take longer than an SMP, but it is possible to take 32+ science credits, get all As, and have that be enough to attract interviews. You also would not be facing the same competition and do-or-die nature of an SMP. I have heard of post-baccs with "linkages" to their medical schools, but that's something you'd need to investigate on your own.

It's a tough road, but it can be done. Good luck

 

[riced]

I feel like I don't have much of a preference when it comes to SMP's, just something that would strengthen my biology background for medical school. So I'm generally pretty open to most kinds. I wouldn't mine a focus in microbiology or physiology or even cellular biology.

But again I'm just worried that if I did apply to an SMP I would instantly be rejected. I know that it will be competitive (especially against the med-school "should-haves" that you mentioned) and my EC isn't that strong. I'm volunteering right now at a local hospital, but other than that I'm not doing much. My list so far consists of:

Volunteer 100+ hours
Physician shadowing 20+ hours
TA Biology - 1 quarter
Chemistry tutor - 2 years, 2-3 hrs a week

I might have a few more, but needless to say nothing that stands out too much. I wasn't the star student in undergrad but I just can't wait to do an SMP because I KNOW I will come into it with a completely different attitude.

My goal is to apply to SMP's this cycle, so applications in by May/June. I'm hoping this can still be realistic.. Obviously I have to get some letters of recommendation which will be hard, but I think I might be able to manage 2 or 3 by then. Any reccomendations of anything else I could be doing with my time? If I land a job somewhere in the next couple of weeks I could work there for about 3-4 months before I apply... Take a certification course (EMT, Tech, etc.) or something I'm not sure.

Would love some more feedback and advice. I would love to be able to apply to an SMP this cycle so I could start it in the fall. Let me know and please PM me if you want to share your thoughts in private with me!

Thank you for everyone's reply so far! Love it!

 

[dcamkl1]

Even if you do well in an SMP, a sub-3.0 GPA will still be a huge obstacle. Many schools have a minimum GPA, and don't get your hopes up w/ schools that claim they do not set minimum standards.

You must decide between MD or DO, which might depend on how quickly you want to start school and how much resources you are willing to spend.

For DO, retake courses you did poorly in and use grade-replacement with those. Make a spreadsheet for GPA calculation. You need to determine how many courses you will need to retake in order to bring your GPA up to at least a 3.0. Once you get both your cGPA and sciGPA above 3.0, you can apply to DO schools.

For MD, retake courses that you got less than a C. Spend at least 1-2 years doing post-bacc work and take advanced science courses (getting mostly A's). Calculate what your GPA will be if you get a 4.0 in say 30 credits or something. Again, you need to bring your GPA up to at least a 3.0. I said 1-2 years, but I honestly think you will need 2 years to bring up your GPA dramatically. Afterwards, apply to SMP programs. Do well in the SMP and then apply to MD school. Note that it may be more than 3-4 years when you apply, meaning your MCAT will expire. Plan on a potential retake in this case.

 

[riced]

Even if you do well in an SMP, a sub-3.0 GPA will still be a huge obstacle.

I definitely understand this, but I feel that even if I'm applying to an MD school... 2 years of postbacc and 1 year of an SMP seems extreme for me. I do realize that my GPA is terribly low but I feel like I'm just going to be repeating courses over and over.

If I apply to an MD school, lets say, with a 2.85 undergraduate GPA and an 3.75 SMP GPA, I feel like they would immediately see a huge turnaround in my work ethic. Is it really worth the extra $30,000 to retake classes for 2 years to get my cGPA up to a 3.3 and then apply to an SMP? An SMP is already very expensive and 2 more years of postbacc would kill me at this point. I'm wondering, are you telling me this advice from experience or otherwise? Thank you for the quick reply!

 

[Etyan]

Be aware a number of MD programs prefer post-bacc work over graduate work (and occasionally vice versa). That's why exploring the MD programs you are interested in before deciding upon the post-bacc/SMP route is important.

An SMP is already very expensive and 2 more years of postbacc would kill me at this point. I'm wondering, are you telling me this advice from experience or otherwise? Thank you for the quick reply!

From personal experience: you can be accepted into a top SMP program (I define "top" as an SMP that achieves > 80% MD matriculation) with a sub-3.0 uGPA. Just be aware that at these top programs, a number of your classmates will be sitting at > 3.4 uGPAs and potentially be much more academically prepared (or at the very least more experienced with averaging in the 90%s) than you. Your MCAT is good enough to catch SMP AdCom's attention; your ECs (as far as I can tell) are not enough to get your foot in the door. Please feel free to not answer the following question if it's too personal, but what's driving you towards a career in medicine? What have you done to show your commitment? If you have a meaningful story to tell, and actions to back it up, that can play a huge role in getting you in.

If not, no worries. Commit some time this year to an informal post-bacc and apply to the SMP next cycle. Take a few upper-division science courses and knock them out of the ballpark. Invest $1000 into an EMT course, if that interests you, and get a bit of income while gaining significant clinical experience. Who knows, maybe that will help you with the introspective journey that the "Why medicine" question entails!

 

[dcamkl1]

I definitely understand this, but I feel that even if I'm applying to an MD school... 2 years of postbacc and 1 year of an SMP seems extreme for me. I do realize that my GPA is terribly low but I feel like I'm just going to be repeating courses over and over.

If I apply to an MD school, lets say, with a 2.85 undergraduate GPA and an 3.75 SMP GPA, I feel like they would immediately see a huge turnaround in my work ethic. Is it really worth the extra $30,000 to retake classes for 2 years to get my cGPA up to a 3.3 and then apply to an SMP? An SMP is already very expensive and 2 more years of postbacc would kill me at this point. I'm wondering, are you telling me this advice from experience or otherwise? Thank you for the quick reply!

SMPs are high-risk. If you don't do well in an SMP, then med school is pretty much out of the question. I am not exaggerating--this is the general opinion of the experienced SDNers on the post-baccalaureate thread. While it is good that you are committed to doing well from now on, going from a 2.85 UG to a 3.7+ in an SMP (taking real med-school courses) is easier said then done. Taking courses as a post-bacc not only maximizes your GPA, it also will help you learn how to handle harder courses.

Reading back, you said you were a physiology major, so I assume you took a good amount of science courses. You will need to find classes that you have not taken. Possible courses are math (calculus and higher), biochem, molecular biology, genetics, etc.

You should definitely checkout the post-bacc thread on SDN. The people there have more knowledge and advice for you.