submitted abstract vs invited abstract?

[liquidcrawler]

M3, just finished a block and am trying to organize all my projects for ERAS coming up next year...

My PI is a big shot and whenever they attend conferences they get a talk just because, there's no submission. I guess you can call this an "invited talk." Throughout last year (well, I guess it was 2 years ago now), my PI chose to present my data at these talks twice. Once where they listed me as first author, and again where I was just a middle author. I think there are abstracts associated with these talks, but they are not published (if you dig around on the conference website you can find it, but its not indexed on pubmed / printed in a journal). I did not attend these conferences (none of the lab did). How would I go about listing this on ERAS?

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[frenchyn]

Did he just give a talk with your work or did he submit an abstract and get accept then do the talk? If former, I don’t think you can list it as abstract or presentation especially you did not present. If later, then sure. But you can definitely put it in your research experience. I don’t know what you are going into, but if something competitive and research play big role, abstracts are very low yield...

 

[GoSpursGo]

Did he just give a talk with your work or did he submit an abstract and get accept then do the talk? If former, I don’t think you can list it as abstract or presentation especially you did not present. If later, then sure. But you can definitely put it in your research experience. I don’t know what you are going into, but if something competitive and research play big role, abstracts are very low yield...

I disagree, every little bit counts for those competitive specialties.

I would list the abstracts in the appropriate area (peer-reviewed if they were reviewed, non-peer-reviewed if they weren't) and then notate that he gave an oral presentation. This would not be an "invited talk" for you.

 

[frenchyn]

I disagree, every little bit counts for those competitive specialties.

I would list the abstracts in the appropriate area (peer-reviewed if they were reviewed, non-peer-reviewed if they weren't) and then notate that he gave an oral presentation. This would not be an "invited talk" for you.

Abstract numbers are known to be inflated. No one cares lmao....especially average people can have 20 pubs/abstract/presentation...one abstract makes no difference 🤣...no one have asked me about my 15+ abstracts...abstracts often do not equal pubs...no one care unless you have nothing else on your resume I guess...

anyway, if that doc was only invited to a talk due to his expertise...no abstract submitted...n OP did not even present then it is a long shot to list it as abstract/presentation...same as a guest speaker present At a grand round...🤣

 

[Lawpy]

I disagree, every little bit counts for those competitive specialties.

I would list the abstracts in the appropriate area (peer-reviewed if they were reviewed, non-peer-reviewed if they weren't) and then notate that he gave an oral presentation. This would not be an "invited talk" for you.

How? I'm not sure how abstracts help? Is it to just get something out when the CV otherwise has nothing to show? Because papers and presentations are usually viewed to be far more important and abstracts seem to be just CV padding so PDs can easily see through?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Abstract numbers are known to be inflated. No one cares lmao....especially average people can have 20 pubs/abstract/presentation...one abstract makes no difference 🤣...no one have asked me about my 15+ abstracts...abstracts often do not equal pubs...no one care unless you have nothing else on your resume I guess...

anyway, if that doc was only invited to a talk due to his expertise...no abstract submitted...n OP did not even present then it is a long shot to list it as abstract/presentation...same as a guest speaker present At a grand round...🤣

And yet, you listed those 15+ abstracts... of course nobody asked about them, but you felt the need to show your productivity on paper just the same

OP specifically mentioned being listed as a first or middle author, so presumably an actual abstract does exist. I agree you shouldn't list your PI presenting Grand Rounds.

How? I'm not sure how abstracts help? Is it to just get something out when the CV otherwise has nothing to show? Because papers and presentations are usually viewed to be far more important and abstracts seem to be just CV padding so PDs can easily see through?

I'm certainly aware that an abstract isn't as impactful as a pub or presentation. It still isn't nothing.

 

[Lawpy]

And yet, you listed those 15+ abstracts... of course nobody asked about them, but you felt the need to show your productivity on paper just the same

OP specifically mentioned being listed as a first or middle author, so presumably an actual abstract does exist. I agree you shouldn't list your PI presenting Grand Rounds.

I'm certainly aware that an abstract isn't as impactful as a pub or presentation. It still isn't nothing.

Ok makes sense. I wish ERAS has a clear way to separate research categories into separate papers, presentations and abstract categories, because lumping all of them together in a single publication category is misleadingly inflated. 15 abstracts isn't 15 papers yet grouping everything as 15 pubs gives a false sense that a specialty is more demanding of research than otherwise

 

[frenchyn]

And yet, you listed those 15+ abstracts... of course nobody asked about them, but you felt the need to show your productivity on paper just the same

OP specifically mentioned being listed as a first or middle author, so presumably an actual abstract does exist. I agree you shouldn't list your PI presenting Grand Rounds.

I'm certainly aware that an abstract isn't as impactful as a pub or presentation. It still isn't nothing.

That is where I am unclear about his/her post hence I gave the later/former. If the attending just listed his/her name on the PowerPoint presentation as part of his/her invited talk then I don’t necessarily consider it as abstract...OP mentioned “no submission” or “I think there is an abstract but not published”...is there an abstract?.....this makes it no difference than guest speaker as grand round and again especially if OP did not present.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Ok makes sense. I wish ERAS has a clear way to separate research categories into separate papers, presentations and abstract categories, because lumping all of them together in a single publication category is misleadingly inflated. 15 abstracts isn't 15 papers yet grouping everything as 15 pubs gives a false sense that a specialty is more demanding of research than otherwise

Yes, ERAS is stupid.

That is where I am unclear about his/her post hence I gave the later/former. If the attending just listed his/her name on the PowerPoint presentation as part of his/her invited talk then I don’t necessarily consider it as abstract...OP mentioned “no submission”.....this makes it no difference than guest speaker as grand round and again especially if OP did not present.

Again agree, my response presumes there is something that the OP can actually point to that has his/her name on it like an abstract. If it was just a name on a Power Point, then it's probably not something you can list on your CV.

 

[frenchyn]

Yes, ERAS is stupid.

Again agree, my response presumes there is something that the OP can actually point to that has his/her name on it like an abstract. If it was just a name on a Power Point, then it's probably not something you can list on your CV.

Which is what I said in my original post...but you said disagree lol...

 

[GoSpursGo]

Which is what I said in my original post...but you said disagree lol...

Specifically bolded the part where you said "abstracts are low yield." At some point I think we're debating semantics, but there's nothing wrong with ensuring that you put every piece of productivity on your CV for ERAS.

 

[frenchyn]

Specifically bolded the part where you said "abstracts are low yield." At some point I think we're debating semantics, but there's nothing wrong with ensuring that you put every piece of productivity on your CV for ERAS.

Well...yes, but for something like a research work without an abstract...I put it under research experience which is what I recommended OP to do...Abstracts are really low yield lol...Idk how many I see people submit an abstract without submitting a follow-up pub...reading an abstract can be misleading, can't cite it, or it can be a totally very well-written abstract but ****ty pub. Abstracts alone are not very useful aka low yield.

Also I listed them just because people list them. All my abstracts are followed by pubs...so they don't really help me much.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Well...yes, but for something like a research work without an abstract...I put it under research experience which is what I recommended OP to do...Abstracts are really low yield lol...Idk how many I see people submit an abstract without submitting a follow-up pub...reading an abstract can be misleading, can't cite it, or it can be a totally very well-written abstract but ****ty pub. Abstracts alone are not very useful aka low yield.

Also I listed them just because people list them. All my abstracts are followed by pubs...so they don't really help me much.

As I said, I think we're debating semantics but are more or less advocating for the same course of action.

 

[liquidcrawler]

Ok makes sense. I wish ERAS has a clear way to separate research categories into separate papers, presentations and abstract categories, because lumping all of them together in a single publication category is misleadingly inflated. 15 abstracts isn't 15 papers yet grouping everything as 15 pubs gives a false sense that a specialty is more demanding of research than otherwise

That is where I am unclear about his/her post hence I gave the later/former. If the attending just listed his/her name on the PowerPoint presentation as part of his/her invited talk then I don’t necessarily consider it as abstract...OP mentioned “no submission” or “I think there is an abstract but not published”...is there an abstract?.....this makes it no difference than guest speaker as grand round and again especially if OP did not present.

I guess a little more clarification... (also this is all basic science work, so because pubs / evidence of productivity is a little slower in this world I'm erring on the side of including more things).

The first conference was an international one. My PI is one of the leaders in the field, so I'm pretty sure she can just give a talks at any conference she wants. There was a peer-review process for trainee abstracts, but I don't think she "submitted" anything but was just given a podium because she is not a trainee. I remember this being a big deal because this was the first time she was presenting my data to this specific crowd of people and she was nervous about how they would take it. None of the abstracts from this conference are published in any journal. There was a list of the abstracts (with authors) on their website, but it seems that old website no longer exists as it has been replaced with this year's website.

The other conference was the same deal. She showed up and gave a talk. I guess this one is more "name on the powerpoint," but at this one she only exclusively presented my data. You could find the title of the talk on the conference website (but no authors are listed) and there is no abstract associated with it. My name was first on the powerpoint.

I guess, with the advice from you guys, I'd place the first one under "non-peer reviewed abstracts" and the second one under just a "research experience." I'm hoping the paper gets out before ERAS, but who knows with basic science. For the same project, I gave have a peer-reviewed abstract that a gave a talk on at a national conference. These other 2 conferences we're talking about right now are regarding the 2nd part of my project.
I'm most likely interested in IM, but would like to ideally go to a top-20 program with an emphasis on research.

 

[frenchyn]

I guess a little more clarification... (also this is all basic science work, so because pubs / evidence of productivity is a little slower in this world I'm erring on the side of including more things).

The first conference was an international one. My PI is one of the leaders in the field, so I'm pretty sure she can just give a talks at any conference she wants. There was a peer-review process for trainee abstracts, but I don't think she "submitted" anything but was just given a podium because she is not a trainee. I remember this being a big deal because this was the first time she was presenting my data to this specific crowd of people and she was nervous about how they would take it. None of the abstracts from this conference are published in any journal. There was a list of the abstracts (with authors) on their website, but it seems that old website no longer exists as it has been replaced with this year's website.

The other conference was the same deal. She showed up and gave a talk. I guess this one is more "name on the powerpoint," but at this one she only exclusively presented my data. You could find the title of the talk on the conference website (but no authors are listed) and there is no abstract associated with it. My name was first on the powerpoint.

I guess, with the advice from you guys, I'd place the first one under "non-peer reviewed abstracts" and the second one under just a "research experience." I'm hoping the paper gets out before ERAS, but who knows with basic science. For the same project, I gave have a peer-reviewed abstract that a gave a talk on at a national conference. These other 2 conferences we're talking about right now are regarding the 2nd part of my project.
I'm most likely interested in IM, but would like to ideally go to a top-20 program with an emphasis on research.

If she did not submit the abstract then it is NOT a peer reviewed abstract or any abstract lol... If it is one project I only list it as one. I have basic science research that has not been published as well, even when we are actually drafting the manuscript, I still list it under my experience but I mentioned manuscript is under drafting. You can do the same but also mention it has been presented as x and Z conference. If you list as abstract and they can’t find it as proof you risk the risk of lying....top programs in my field they check...some even don’t count the non pubmed one...let alone some random abstracts.