substance abuse and back
Started by dpg
norcal81 said:
Before I get started I want to say the only thing ISU Steve did wrong is to choose this thread to get on his soapbox. I don't think that even I would have left my footprint on the OP's back. The OP was asking for advice, not to get torched. That said, anytime you post here, you take the risk of getting torched. It's a public forum and if someone has a differing opinion they have a right to post it. That's the beauty of democracy. If you can't handle criticism, don't post. If you want everyone to toe the party line, move to Cuba or North Korea. Too many of the posters on SDN were raised in an atmosphere where no score is kept in Little League games and every kid gets a trophy at the end of the season. None of you have learned anything about personal responsibility.
The above post is over-the-top hilarious. I'm going to guess norcal81 is a chick (very politically IC for me to say). Let's all have a group hug and compare our addictions. Hey everybody, I'm 1 day clean from my 10 year porn addiction!
To compare your cigarette addiction to an alcohol or illicit drug addiction is ridiculous. When has your smoking a cigarette had any repercussion to the patient's well being except they might have to wait awhile if you're taking a smoke break?When you delete all of the touchy feel good posts on this thread it is actually kind of interesting. ISU Steve, Hudley, TucsonDDS and DDSslave keep on putting thought into your posts and don't let the PC police knock you down.
Touche.hudley said:
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gumgardener2009 said:Before I get started I want to say the only thing ISU Steve did wrong is to choose this thread to get on his soapbox. I don't think that even I would have left my footprint on the OP's back. The OP was asking for advice, not to get torched. That said, anytime you post here, you take the risk of getting torched. It's a public forum and if someone has a differing opinion they have a right to post it. That's the beauty of democracy. If you can't handle criticism, don't post. If you want everyone to toe the party line, move to Cuba or North Korea. Too many of the posters on SDN were raised in an atmosphere where no score is kept in Little League games and every kid gets a trophy at the end of the season. None of you have learned anything about personal responsibility.
The above post is over-the-top hilarious. I'm going to guess norcal81 is a chick (very politically IC for me to say). Let's all have a group hug and compare our addictions. Hey everybody, I'm 1 day clean from my 10 year porn addiction!
When you delete all of the touchy feel good posts on this thread it is actually kind of interesting. ISU Steve, Hudley, TucsonDDS and DDSslave keep on putting thought into your posts and don't let the PC police knock you down.
I remember the days of keeping score in tee ball. One time I hit the rubber part of the tee and it went flying as well as the ball. One kid caught the rubber piece and one kid caught the ball and the jack-ass umpire called it 2 outs. how is that for one's self esteem. Now days I think it would be a "do over." That was a big reason why I got into solo sports. Running, riding and wrestling through High school. If I got beat it was my own fault and it made me try harder. Well sometimes it was the other wrestlers fault because he was so much better than me.
Funny, I got the impression that it was a girl also. The picture that popped into my head was Blonde, 21 years old, 117 pounds, cute but way to much trouble to date.
I agree. Don't judge people unless you're seating on a bench!gumgardener2009 said:
haha. I thought the exact same thing! They're like the Fockers type parents! It's important to teach kids about good sportmenship, fairness but they shouldn't skip out on competitiveness. They don't tell them that the loser walks alone!gumgardener2009 said:
It amazes me that there's no end to the blaming game! It's always others' faults but oneself's. I'm sick of hearing patients in Urgent care complaining that it's always their dentists' faults that their mouths turned to ****. Most of them have free dental care but you have to beg or put a gun to their heads (I wish!) for them to show up for their appoinments. When they decide to show up, most of them are late!gumgardener2009 said:
Instead of saying the school was unfair why not saying that you had screwed up! You had a chance that many others didn't. You were a liability to the school. Dental schools don't babysit you. You're pretty much on your own on everything. We're not undergrad anymore. Most of us know what to do when we need help, brown nosing, latch on to accquaintances....
Back to the original topic, I doubt that they let you go while allowing others to repeat failed classes. They had to put you on academic probation first. Did you take the medical leave without notifying the Dean or the appropriate faculty? If I had a substance abuse problem, Academic advisor is the last one I would contact for help.
Although difficult, if you want to get back in dental school then you definitely have to straighten things out with your previous dental school. Like someone posted, the application has questions about whether you have attended or dismissed from a dental or medical school.
You have to show proof to them that you had seeked counseling and you have been clean, beaten the habit....I assume that you have?!
Getting a lawyer can be back fire in your case if the school has evidence of your substance abuse. They did suggest counseling to you and you turned it down.
There must be more to the story than what you had posted but that's another story. It's easy to get into a substance abuse, it's much harder to get out of it. You have to prove to dental school that you truely deserve a second chance. If you want to get back in dental school bad enough, you'll find a way. Good luck!
Not that I am saying a drug user/addict who doesn't believe that they are an addict is "off the hook" for their actions. I believe that each person is responsible for their actions...just not responsible for their disease state.
Great topic!
Alan
Great topic!
Alan
ISU_Steve said:
Actually buddy there are 2 issues here, #1. Addiction which is a psychological issue and #2 physiological dependence, which indicates a drug that leads to withdrawal symptoms when you dont take it. Very few drugs actually cause these withdrawal symptoms, "heroin and alcohol" are the most popular ones. Other drugs such as marijuana and cocaine do not cause these withdrawal symptoms.
I was merely saying that there are physiological issues at play here in regards to the roots of addiction....which have already been discussed, so no need to rehash them; not necessarily that it had to be physiological dependence that was producing his problems.
You're right, it's the body having gotten so used to having the substance that it freaks out when the substance is no longer there (physiological dependence, or physical addiction, as you described). And remember that even if the OP was addicted to pain pills, those still fall in the same class of medications as heroin (which is diacetyl morphine- that is the product of morphine combined with acetic acid- first pass metabolism through the liver and it's converted back to morphine).
As for cocaine not causing withdrawals.....Have you ever seen a crackhead who can't get his fix? I have and it ain't pretty...people become both psychologically and physicially dependent on cocaine. Here's a link about the symptoms of cocaine withdrawal: http://www.cocaine-addiction.info/withdrawal.htm
Other medications that produce potent and marked withdrawal due to physical dependance are nicotine, methamphetamine, and alcohol as noted before. Even psychotropic medications (such as the various antidepressants) can produce a marked withdrawal syndrome if stopped abruptly. Anecdotal reports indicate that Paxil and Effexor carry high risks of this. Even the beta-adrenergic antagonists that are used to manage hypertension can cause rebound hypertension if discontinued abruptly, so to say that only a few medications cause withdrawal symptoms is not necessarily correct.
Marijuana is not normally physically addictive, but there have been a few scattered case reports in various journals in regards to this.
You're right, it's the body having gotten so used to having the substance that it freaks out when the substance is no longer there (physiological dependence, or physical addiction, as you described). And remember that even if the OP was addicted to pain pills, those still fall in the same class of medications as heroin (which is diacetyl morphine- that is the product of morphine combined with acetic acid- first pass metabolism through the liver and it's converted back to morphine).
As for cocaine not causing withdrawals.....Have you ever seen a crackhead who can't get his fix? I have and it ain't pretty...people become both psychologically and physicially dependent on cocaine. Here's a link about the symptoms of cocaine withdrawal: http://www.cocaine-addiction.info/withdrawal.htm
Other medications that produce potent and marked withdrawal due to physical dependance are nicotine, methamphetamine, and alcohol as noted before. Even psychotropic medications (such as the various antidepressants) can produce a marked withdrawal syndrome if stopped abruptly. Anecdotal reports indicate that Paxil and Effexor carry high risks of this. Even the beta-adrenergic antagonists that are used to manage hypertension can cause rebound hypertension if discontinued abruptly, so to say that only a few medications cause withdrawal symptoms is not necessarily correct.
Marijuana is not normally physically addictive, but there have been a few scattered case reports in various journals in regards to this.
Anyone on SDN knows how much I hate disagreeing with posts like this--so I'll just let other people do it for me. 😉DREDAY said:
Cocaine
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/cocaindep.html
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000947.htm
http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/000947sym.htm
Marijuana
http://www.drugabuse.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol15N1/Evidence.html
http://www.mclean.harvard.edu/PublicAffairs/20001126_marijuana_withdrawal.htm
http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun01/marijuana.html
And there are plenty more where those came from.
DREDAY said:
I recently gave a talk at a dental school regarding this very subject.
The terms physical dependence and addiction are two different things.
Physical dependence: the presence of withdrawal (abstinence syndrome) from a particular drug
Addiction (or alcoholism or chemical dependence): continued use of drugs/alcohol despite continuing adverse consequences.
Many long term hospital patients become physically dependent on narcotic pain medications over a long use for managing pain and will have withdrawal when the administration of the drug is reduced or removed. This does NOT make them an addict.
The best example of addiction that I can think of is the difference between getting one DUI (an "oh my God" moment for most people) and those who have 2, 3 or more. The ones with multiple DUI's and likely punishment with jail, prison, loss of license, etc. continued to use even though they had consequences right in their face!
No drug causes addiction. Having a genetic predisposition to addiction and then being exposed to a drug for a period of time can cause addiction.
Many addicts do show withdrawal symptoms (abstinence syndrome), but presence of it is not necessary for diagnosis of addiction/chemical dependence.
I hope this makes some sense!
Alan
DREDAY said:
I'll agree with you, for sheer misery of the withdrawal, nothing compares with heroin. I've seen several people go through it and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy. Alcohol withdrawls (DT's and the whole slew of accompanying symptoms) would be another thing I wouldn't wish upon anyone. While I believe people should be held accountable for their choices in life, I don't think they should be allowed to physically suffer because of them. I may be a hardnosed SOB at times, but I'm not totally heartless.
