Summer research discrimination?

[sbEMT33]

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I've been looking through a lot of the summer undergraduate research programs and a bunch of different schools across the country. In most of them there is something mentioned something about being URM or something along that line in the description.

Do they give priority to these students or is the program only for those URM?


--I know I'm being vague, i will include examples in a reply

 

[kingjameslbj]

OH god. HERE WE GO

 

[sbEMT33]

http://www.bumc.bu.edu/gms/admissions/stars/
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/diversity/summer-internship-opportunities/
http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/education/phd/gpo/srip/
http://gsas.columbia.edu/summer-research-program

just a few

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

I remember confronting this issue when looking for summer opportunities during college.

The statement "undergraduates from groups that have been historically underrepresented in academia" is likely not meant to mean "poor people," even though it applies. Maybe some of them use a broad definition that includes SES and that's why they don't specify race.

If you're from a working class family of any race, I say apply to all of them and make the case in your applications that working class people are a group that has been "historically underrepresented in academia."

 

[Reckoner]

I've been looking through a lot of the summer undergraduate research programs and a bunch of different schools across the country. In most of them there is something mentioned something about being URM or something along that line in the description.

Do they give priority to these students or is the program only for those URM?

All of this information is available through the links you provided:

I am not a member of an underrepresented minority or disadvantaged group. Can I apply to the summer program?
Yes. We welcome applications from all eligible undergraduate students interested in participating in the summer undergraduate research program; however, the number of applications we receive normally allows us to fill all internships with highly qualified students who are members of groups traditionally underrepresented in the biomedical sciences.

The program targets, but is not limited to, racially and ethnically diverse students in their junior and senior years.

Eligibility Requirements
The program seeks college students who have a passion for scholarly or scientific research and demonstrate academic promise in research and/or teaching in the sciences and selected disciplines in the humanities and social sciences. Applicants must:

• Belong to a group historically underrepresented in academia and have therefore overcome challenges or hardships related to race, ethnicity, culture, socioeconomic background, family history of post-baccalaureate opportunity, gender, sexual orientation, or disability.

 

[Eaglefan]

As much as I don't want to feed the trolls...

My uni has one summer research program, and it is only for under-represented populations. There isn't one for ORMs to apply to.
Think about the irony in that.

 

[GoPelicans]

Certain grants exist to train URM's to go into research. As much as I thought it was bull**** during the 4+ months I was job-hunting after college (even had one medical school professor tell me "If you were a black woman I could get funding for you by the end of the week"), it's very alarming how underrepresented black/Latino people are in the research scene. My research building is 18 floors, and I think I have probably seen just about every person in the building at least once. There is only one black researcher, but every single janitor is black. That's a problem.

 

[kyamh]

If you are a woman and you are looking to get research experience in a science that isn't clinical/psychology/biology then you are usually an URM. There are very few women at high profile research centers involved in computational, physics, programming, and many branches of neuroscience - like physiology.

The point of summer programs is to encourage future researchers, not to give pre meds lines on their AMCAS. Students at many low tier universities don't have the chance to get involved in research during the year because their faculty don't run labs.

 

[nemo123]

Like others have said on this thread, many of these programs are targeted specifically to minorities (largely due to specific grants geared towards these groups), women, and college students who don't have many research opportunities available to them at their undergraduate institution. Most of them have a mission to train future PhDs and MD-PhDs. There are many programs that do not target URMs specifically; you just have to look for them.

In my own experience, I know that the directors of some of these summer programs are the deans of PhD admissions and is in some ways a back door in the PhD program. I also know that some programs will discriminate against applicants who say they're educational goal is to get an MD.

 

[Ironman322]

Took a free 2 week MCAT course at a medical school last summer. It was put on by the center for diversity affairs.... I have blonde hair, blue-eyes, and am a straight white male.

Felt like a poser, but raised my score 5 points 🙂

 

[Pacna]

Certain grants exist to train URM's to go into research. As much as I thought it was bullcrap during the 4+ months I was job-hunting after college (even had one medical school professor tell me "If you were a black woman I could get funding for you by the end of the week"), it's very alarming how underrepresented black/Latino people are in the research scene. My research building is 18 floors, and I think I have probably seen just about every person in the building at least once. There is only one black researcher, but every single janitor is black. That's a problem.

That's odd. Our janitors were all Latin@s. Where was this? Mine was in E Lansing.

 

[sbEMT33]

If you are a woman and you are looking to get research experience in a science that isn't clinical/psychology/biology then you are usually an URM. There are very few women at high profile research centers involved in computational, physics, programming, and many branches of neuroscience - like physiology.

The point of summer programs is to encourage future researchers, not to give pre meds lines on their AMCAS. Students at many low tier universities don't have the chance to get involved in research during the year because their faculty don't run labs.

If the point is to encourage future researchers, why make it so easy for URM's? Shouldn't the programs appeal to those who have expressed and interest in research already instead of any URM who might want to do research just for their app?

The programs should give everyone a fair shot.

 

[ready2go2]

If the point is to encourage future researchers, why make it so easy for URM's? Shouldn't the programs appeal to those who have expressed and interest in research already instead of any URM who might want to do research just for their app?

The programs should give everyone a fair shot.

Easy? How so?
And as for URMs only wanting to do research for their "app," that applies to a large group of premeds who are doing research not because they are interested in it but rather to boost their resumes. Believe it or not but some URMs are actually interested in research!! These special grants and programs recognize that URMs will have more trouble navigating the system and finding labs because they are not familiar with STEM fields. It's easier for middle to upper class ORMs to find research at say a larger research universities and that is exactly why these programs are not targeting them. ORMs will most likely do well without the help of these programs, that way nearly everyone wins.

 

[sbEMT33]

Easy? How so?
And as for URMs only wanting to do research for their "app," that applies to a large group of premeds who are doing research not because they are interested in it but rather to boost their resumes. Believe it or not but some URMs are actually interested in research!! These special grants and programs recognize that URMs will have more trouble navigating the system and finding labs because they are not familiar with STEM fields. It's easier for middle to upper class ORMs to find research at say a larger research universities and that is exactly why these programs are not targeting them. ORMs will most likely do well without the help of these programs, that way nearly everyone wins.

why is this?

 

[GoPelicans]

That's odd. Our janitors were all Latin@s. Where was this? Mine was in E Lansing.

I was in MA

why is this?

I honestly found his post little insulting, he basically insinuates that it's a URM-exclusive phenomenon to be unfamiliar with navigating academia and STEM fields. So what about ORM's who are the first in their family to go to college and would also benefit from extra help in navigating their field?

 

[sbEMT33]

Lack of role models, lesser original educational opportunities (ie less funding in school districts), less knowledge of the system of academia, cultural/racial unconscious/institutional bias on both sides, etc. The list can go and the vast cultural divide is hard grasp on either side.

There is a great difference between ignorance due to lack of opportunity to know and "clueless *****" as someone said.

If this is the case then why not inform URM's, send out email, have meetings. Someone disadvantaged like that is unable to go on the internet to site like SDN or learn about how things work? I learned for myself, why couldn't anyone else?

 

[mehc012]

If this is the case then why not inform URM's, send out email, have meetings. Someone disadvantaged like that is unable to go on the internet to site like SDN or learn about how things work? I learned for myself, why couldn't anyone else?

There are a lot of factors giving you the motivation, self-confidence, expectation of success, and yes, actual physical ability to educate yourself on this front.
SES can be a really subtle barrier - it's more about what is ingrained in people as far as what to expect out of life and what to strive/settle for, and less than you'd expect about actual financial resources (there are a fair number of free resources out there, but they can be exhausting/embarrassing to use, and do little to inspire self-confidence).

 

[Reckoner]

You would have to start before preschool, before cultural roles, societies possibilities, and all the other 10,000 things that you dont you realize that you have learned and expected about the society you are being raised in. Take a simple and perhaps extreme and controversial example of a what a 3 year old may learn when seeing a police car or officer is nearby. What do parents might tell a child just from that simple observation and what a child may learn from. Multiple that my thousands upon thousands of interactions and societal reinforcements. Now how do you a medical school or society do best to serve the healthcare needs of such disparate population and how to train to physicians?

Dude, *grammar check. I think I agree with what you're saying, but this paragraph is almost unreadable.

 

[mehc012]

Dude, spell check. I think I agree with what you're saying, but this paragraph is almost unreadable.

The spelling is all there...looks more like cell phone shenanigans to me. Actually, it looks like Dragon dictation, but that's doubtful to be the cause

 

[ready2go2]

I was in MA



I honestly found his post little insulting, he basically insinuates that it's a URM-exclusive phenomenon to be unfamiliar with navigating academia and STEM fields. So what about ORM's who are the first in their family to go to college and would also benefit from extra help in navigating their field?

See you assumed I am a male. Her*
And first generation is very much apart of the URM group, URM in research is certainly not just about race.

 

[Espadaleader]

1% of NIH funding goes to Black PIs and SDN is up in arms about these diversity programs lol. There are far more programs that are not focused on URMs like Amgen etc. so don't paint a picture like URMs are taking spots. Also, these programs consider individuals from any race if they are disadvantaged. Surprisingly, there tends to be fair representation of all races at programs like SMDEP etc because of this.

 

[mehc012]

It was dragon.....

For srs?

Even the 2nd paragraph with the bolding and the underlining?
I'd be impressed, yet dismayed, if you pulled off formatting with dictation yet the software isn't using apostrophes properly. I haven't seen THAT particular error before.

 

[Long Way to Go]

The professors at your school do research. Many probably will have funding for you. Certainly if you're qualified to get into these programs, your professors should want you enough to pay you some. If it bothers you that much, don't go through the process; just find someone at the institution that you already know and will have connections to even after the summer is over.

 

[tanhauser19]

Unpopular opinion time:

I don't get how so-often the pro-URM argument is URM=SES. I get that SES is a real disadvantage. Your parents are undereducated, your peer group pressures you to remain in low-SES, you're under-informed and under-resourced to succeed or to even know how to succeed in medicine or higher ed.

The problem is that URM does not necessarily imply low SES, just as white or ORM does not necessarily imply high SES. In fact, it is, by definition, racist to assume so. You can argue the correlation may generally hold, by statistical average, but you cannot assume it is a rule.

In fact, the real problem is that these research programs---and admissions faculty---often forget that SES is the biggest measure of disadvantage, not racial status. It is an injustice when these programs only care about race. It completely screws over low-SES whites and ORMs. It assumes all whites or Asians are high SES so they don't need to worry about white people or Asians. Or it assumes they're just smart enough to pull themselves up by their bootstraps---again, a racist thought, implying that the URMs inherently lack the intellectual or behavioral capacity to do so. Why is it social justice to give a boost to a rich URM over a poor ORM? I thought America is supposed to be the land of opportunity, not the land of quota-filling. Mindless discrimination purely on the basis of skin color only strengthens our perception of race and takes us farther from a color-blind cultural consciousness.

If a program requires its URMs to also be low-SES, I am all for that. Otherwise, it's just a system that says their evaluation of applicants is merely skin-deep.

 

[mehc012]

Unpopular opinion time:

I don't get how so-often the pro-URM argument is URM=SES. I get that SES is a real disadvantage. Your parents are undereducated, your peer group pressures you to remain in low-SES, you're under-informed and under-resourced to succeed or to even know how to succeed in medicine or higher ed.

The problem is that URM does not necessarily imply low SES, just as white or ORM does not necessarily imply high SES. In fact, it is, by definition, racist to assume so. You can argue the correlation may generally hold, by statistical average, but you cannot assume it is a rule.

In fact, the real problem is that these research programs---and admissions faculty---often forget that SES is the biggest measure of disadvantage, not racial status. It is an injustice when these programs only care about race. It completely screws over low-SES whites and ORMs. It assumes all whites or Asians are high SES so they don't need to worry about white people or Asians. Or it assumes they're just smart enough to pull themselves up by their bootstraps---again, a racist thought, implying that the URMs inherently lack the intellectual or behavioral capacity to do so. Why is it social justice to give a boost to a rich URM over a poor ORM? I thought America is supposed to be the land of opportunity, not the land of quota-filling. Mindless discrimination purely on the basis of skin color only strengthens our perception of race and takes us farther from a color-blind cultural consciousness.

If a program requires its URMs to also be low-SES, I am all for that. Otherwise, it's just a system that says their evaluation of applicants is merely skin-deep.

The assumption is not that all people of color are low SES.
The issues is that the word minority in underrepresented minority includes more groupings than simply skin color.

Those of a low SES background are underrepresented in research. Thus, they are URM, regardless of their skin color.

 

[Patros]

Unpopular opinion time:
... Why is it social justice to give a boost to a rich URM over a poor ORM?

First, that is not an unpopular opinion. It is probably one of the most common arguments against affirmative action. Hell, this entire discussion has been repeated ad nauseam.

My understanding is that it doesn't matter if a URM doctor/researcher was rich or very poor, as far as society is concerned. In the end, we just need to have a decent number of qualified individuals from every racial and cultural group to serve the nation and their own communities. Surely you can see why it is a problem if 99% of physicians and scientists in the US are white or asian. Think of it in a public health perspective: would you expect a relatively homogenous white/asian physician workforce to be perfectly perfectly fair to all ethnicities, all the time? Would you expect a homogenous white/asian scientist workforce to actively research health conditions in black or hispanic populations? Maybe or maybe not, but the other alternative is to encourage URM kids to pursue these careers and serve their own communities, which is just more straightforward.

Yes it would be better to help poor URM than wealthy URM, nobody is denying that. These programs are designed with that purpose in mind. But if that doesn't work, then might as well push non-poor URM to pursue medicine/research. It's a shame that very deserving ORM kids are being denied their ambitions, but as far as society is concerned, those individuals don't matter in the grand scheme of things. I am saying this as an ORM kid who was rejected to every summer research program I applied to, but was still accepted to multiple medical schools in the end.

 

[nemo123]

If the point is to encourage future researchers, why make it so easy for URM's? Shouldn't the programs appeal to those who have expressed and interest in research already instead of any URM who might want to do research just for their app?

The programs should give everyone a fair shot.

Can we please not turn this into an URM debate thread? This topic has been discussed ad naseum and if you want answers to your questions, there's plenty of in those threads.