Supreme Court ruling on VA disability benefits for mental health

[foreverbull]

Yeah, I was a bit surprised at the defense of the court in this thread. People are definitely underestimating just how radically right leaning this court is, and how important stare decisis was as an institution within the court. Particularly now that the concept has been dragged out and stomped to death.

Yes, it seems like at certain times, the court appeared to make some decisions that seemed rational/well-considered with agreement from both liberal and conservative justices at times, so maybe people here and elsewhere were lulled into thinking that the conservative majority wouldn’t be hypocrites and go all-out political and full right-wing ideology for the big decisions. But they’re doing exactly that because that’s what they were handpicked for.

Yep, I was planning on moving to the West Coast/Hawaii this summer after my tenure goes through, but those plans will likely be sped up significantly. Also looking at immigration options, though having a disability complicates that.

Things are getting more Gilead-like each day. I don’t live in a red state, but my family members do, so I’m not sure what travel there will look in the future. It just depends on how anti-LGBT and pro-gun things start to get in those states. Rights other than gun rights have been chipped away since the 2015 Obergefell ruling at state level as much as Republicans think they can get away with.

Join us SDNers on the West Coast! We’d be happy to welcome you to our progressive shores.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[neurotic_cow]

Under his eye.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Under his eye.

I'm quite certain there are folks who watch that show and say, "you know, I don't see what the big problem with all this is."

 

[foreverbull]

….And the supremes are on a roll. They continue to chip away at church and state separation with another ruling (yes coach, go ahead and pray after public school football games on the field). They are really going full steam ahead on the side of religious “freedom of speech,” which has coincidentally been used as an excuse to refuse business to anyone Christian religions deem “sinful” or out of line with religious ideology, including LGBT folks, but also in support of teaching creationism in schools, etc.

Supreme Court further erodes separation between church and state in case of praying football coach | CNN Politics

The court said high school football coach Joe Kennedy's prayers amounted to private speech protected by the First Amendment

www.cnn.com

 

[WisNeuro]

….And the supremes are on a roll. They continue to chip away at church and state separation with another ruling (yes coach, go ahead and pray after public school football games on the field). They are really going full steam ahead on the side of religious “freedom of speech,” which has coincidentally been used as an excuse to refuse business to anyone Christian religions deem “sinful” or out of line with religious ideology, including LGBT folks, but also in support of teaching creationism in schools, etc.

Supreme Court further erodes separation between church and state in case of praying football coach | CNN Politics

The court said high school football coach Joe Kennedy's prayers amounted to private speech protected by the First Amendment

www.cnn.com

I'm just hoping this is a thing when my kids get into sports so I can start holding an alternative prayer for the Church of Satan on the 66-yard line to exercise my constitutional freedoms.

 

[foreverbull]

I'm just hoping this is a thing when my kids get into sports so I can start holding an alternative prayer for the Church of Satan on the 66-yard line to exercise my constitutional freedoms.

I’ll bring candles and rope to form a giant pentagram/sigil on the field for our prayer circle.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I'm just hoping this is a thing when my kids get into sports so I can start holding an alternative prayer for the Church of Satan on the 66-yard line to exercise my constitutional freedoms.

I mean, that’s not really going to help the situation. Hardcore Christians are fine with a few Jewish/Islamic/ Satanic gestures as long as they can be the overwhelmingly powerful religion. Otoh, maybe it’s just having gone to public schools in two extremely religious areas (one Evangelical Christian and one Mormon), but I’m not sure how separated church and state were at the extracurricular level before this. Mormons host religious services at public schools before and after the school day begins, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes hosts a morning prayer service right outside the school door every week, etc. I still think this ruling is awful, though, and this “history” standard the Court is using is as scary as hell.

 

[Sanman]

I’ll bring candles and rope to form a giant pentagram/sigil on the field for our prayer circle.

Now lets not confuse our religions. Pentagrams are generally used in Paganism not Satanism to represent the five elements as symbol of the goddess Persephone, the wife of Hades and the goddess of agriculture/the harvest.

 

[neurotic_cow]

What has everyone's organizations said about the RvW ruling? I work for a relatively large healthcare organization. On Friday and today we got some really vague email saying that we'll follow the law. It also made sure to state that we need to obey the social media policy and emphasized "respecting others' opinions." It felt very different from some of the emails we've gotten previously about other recent social topics (e.g., condemning gun violence, concerns re: racism/diversity, supporting police reform, etc.), so it seems very odd (and disturbing) to me that this organization is not taking a stand or saying that women's/reproductive rights are important. Perhaps because it's apparently now a legal issue to support a women's bodily autonomy?

Though, just today, my supervisor mentioned it to me in passing and was like "I don't see what the big deal is, it's not a constitutional right, plain and simple" and I had a visceral reaction and had to go for a walk, so I guess it's perhaps not surprising given the area I'm in.

 

[Ollie123]

What has everyone's organizations said about the RvW ruling? I work for a relatively large healthcare organization. On Friday and today we got some really vague email saying that we'll follow the law. It also made sure to state that we need to obey the social media policy and emphasized "respecting others' opinions." It felt very different from some of the emails we've gotten previously about other recent social topics (e.g., condemning gun violence, concerns re: racism/diversity, supporting police reform, etc.), so it seems very odd (and disturbing) to me that this organization is not taking a stand or saying that women's/reproductive rights are important. Perhaps because it's apparently now a legal issue to support a women's bodily autonomy?

Though, just today, my supervisor mentioned it to me in passing and was like "I don't see what the big deal is, it's not a constitutional right, plain and simple" and I had a visceral reaction and had to go for a walk, so I guess it's perhaps not surprising given the area I'm in.

We've received no communication of any kind about this in my extremely right-leaning, "trigger law" state (or if we did - I missed it). I imagine there is more practical communication happening on clinical lists I'm not a part of, but definitely a conspicuous absence of organization-wide communication.

 

[Sanman]

What has everyone's organizations said about the RvW ruling? I work for a relatively large healthcare organization. On Friday and today we got some really vague email saying that we'll follow the law. It also made sure to state that we need to obey the social media policy and emphasized "respecting others' opinions." It felt very different from some of the emails we've gotten previously about other recent social topics (e.g., condemning gun violence, concerns re: racism/diversity, supporting police reform, etc.), so it seems very odd (and disturbing) to me that this organization is not taking a stand or saying that women's/reproductive rights are important. Perhaps because it's apparently now a legal issue to support a women's bodily autonomy?

Though, just today, my supervisor mentioned it to me in passing and was like "I don't see what the big deal is, it's not a constitutional right, plain and simple" and I had a visceral reaction and had to go for a walk, so I guess it's perhaps not surprising given the area I'm in.

Every social topic you mentioned has little to do with the impact on the activities of a healthcare setting, so it is easy to take a stand when it has no meaning. Coming out for something may make the org legally liable if the state outlaws it will never happen. The VA released a statement, but we were already banned from providing abortions or abortion counseling. We can also continue to provide contraception or anything else that a state may deem illegal because have shield laws and piles federal attorneys to fight stuff. If I were in medical school, I would certainly be rethinking any interest in OB/Gyn I had right now. This will only cause more shortages.

 

[WisNeuro]

I mean, that’s not really going to help the situation. Hardcore Christians are fine with a few Jewish/Islamic/ Satanic gestures as long as they can be the overwhelmingly powerful religion. Otoh, maybe it’s just having gone to public schools in two extremely religious areas (one Evangelical Christian and one Mormon), but I’m not sure how separated church and state were at the extracurricular level before this. Mormons host religious services at public schools before and after the school day begins, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes hosts a morning prayer service right outside the school door every week, etc. I still think this ruling is awful, though, and this “history” standard the Court is using is as scary as hell.

Location dependent likely, and also an ever changing demo. A third of people 35 and younger identify with no religious affiliation. It's the fastest growing religion/spiritual demographic in the US, followed by Islam. Start making non-christian based religious displays more commonplace, and we'll start to see how the right really views the concept of religious freedom.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Location dependent likely, and also an ever changing demo. A third of people 35 and younger identify with no religious affiliation. It's the fastest growing religion/spiritual demographic in the US, followed by Islam. Start making non-christian based religious displays more commonplace, and we'll start to see how the right really views the concept of religious freedom.

Oh, I have zero doubt that they really think religious freedom=freedom for Christians only, but in most places, that distinction isn't really an issue, practically. Atheists tend not to express religious beliefs, and so in most places, religious expression functionally means Christian expression 90% of the time. A kind of hilariously ironic counterpoint to this is when Louisiana started allowing vouchers to go to private religious schools, and a lot of that money ended up going to Islamic religious schools. The state legislature put up with it, surprisingly.

 

[WisNeuro]

Oh, I have zero doubt that they really think religious freedom=freedom for Christians only, but in most places, that distinction isn't really an issue, practically. Atheists tend not to express religious beliefs, and so in most places, religious expression functionally means Christian expression 90% of the time. A kind of hilariously ironic counterpoint to this is when Louisiana started allowing vouchers to go to private religious schools, and a lot of that money ended up going to Islamic religious schools. The state legislature put up with it, surprisingly.

Depends on where you live. When I lived in the PNW, a local school had an issue where a group organized a bible study on school grounds, so the Satanic Temple organized their own after school group activity at the school. It was a glorious site to behold as the other church leaders, the Baptists in particular, lost their absolute ****. The ST here is pretty active. They were just at Pride performing Unbaptisms. It's there, so so start throwing in your support and presence, they're good people.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'm quite certain there are folks who watch that show and say, "you know, I don't see what the big problem with all this is."

In case others are like me and couldn't place the phrase right away....

What Does "Under His Eye" Mean In 'The Handmaid's Tale'? Language Is A Tool For Oppression

In Margaret Atwood's 1985 dystopian novel, The Handmaid's Tale, which is now been adapted into a series for Hulu, The United States as you know it now has been transformed into patriarchal, overtly religious, totalitarian society called Republic of…

www.bustle.com

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

….And the supremes are on a roll. They continue to chip away at church and state separation with another ruling (yes coach, go ahead and pray after public school football games on the field). They are really going full steam ahead on the side of religious “freedom of speech,” which has coincidentally been used as an excuse to refuse business to anyone Christian religions deem “sinful” or out of line with religious ideology, including LGBT folks, but also in support of teaching creationism in schools, etc.

Supreme Court further erodes separation between church and state in case of praying football coach | CNN Politics

The court said high school football coach Joe Kennedy's prayers amounted to private speech protected by the First Amendment

www.cnn.com

Time for the Satanic Temple and International Church of Cannabis to start forcing schools to acknowledge them *equally* now. Obviously they need student club representation, sponsorship in the school newspapers and yearbooks, and they definitely need to do outreach work. Bad things can happen when children aren't taught early about things, so clearly those churches need to not only participate with high schools and colleges, but also middle schools and elementary schools. EQUAL ACCESS to practice their freedom of speech. It'd be glorious.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Location dependent likely, and also an ever changing demo. A third of people 35 and younger identify with no religious affiliation. It's the fastest growing religion/spiritual demographic in the US, followed by Islam. Start making non-christian based religious displays more commonplace, and we'll start to see how the right really views the concept of religious freedom.

The Black Panthers did this w. open carry back in the day, and BAM...gun laws changed. The religious zealots forget that "religion" doesn't mean their brand of christianity only.

I'm really tempted to run for something locally. I'm kinda slammed right now, but I am more than willing to cause some good trouble if I can get a few last things square w. my PP.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Depends on where you live. When I lived in the PNW, a local school had an issue where a group organized a bible study on school grounds, so the Satanic Temple organized their own after school group activity at the school. It was a glorious site to behold as the other church leaders, the Baptists in particular, lost their absolute ****. The ST here is pretty active. They were just at Pride performing Unbaptisms. It's there, so so start throwing in your support and presence, they're good people.

I love the Satanic Temple....I have donated in the past and will continue to donate. They do some solid work, especially in regard to highlighting and forcing monuments down and/or equal representation.

 

[foreverbull]

Now lets not confuse our religions. Pentagrams are generally used in Paganism not Satanism to represent the five elements as symbol of the goddess Persephone, the wife of Hades and the goddess of agriculture/the harvest.

Fair correction. If we get technical, the upside down 5 point star/goat being the Sigil of Baphomet. I included sigil in the terms but should’ve been more specific and left off pentagram since it is the layperson (incorrect) meaning.

Either way, it tends to strike fear in the hearts of folks who refuse to read up basics on world religions (in my religion growing up, I was told not to explore other religions because they are false and paths to hell).

 

[Sanman]

Fair correction. If we get technical, the upside down 5 point star/goat being the Sigil of Baphomet. I included sigil in the terms but should’ve been more specific and left off pentagram since it is the layperson (incorrect) meaning.

Either way, it tends to strike fear in the hearts of folks who refuse to read up basics on world religions (in my religion growing up, I was told not to explore other religions because they are false and paths to hell).

I am highly amused that we have managed to discuss, the VA, the Supreme Court, and Laveyan Satanism in one thread. Some say navigating the VA benefits system is the fifth circle of hell.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Depends on where you live. When I lived in the PNW, a local school had an issue where a group organized a bible study on school grounds, so the Satanic Temple organized their own after school group activity at the school. It was a glorious site to behold as the other church leaders, the Baptists in particular, lost their absolute ****. The ST here is pretty active. They were just at Pride performing Unbaptisms. It's there, so so start throwing in your support and presence, they're good people.

I am highly amused that we have managed to discuss, the VA, the Supreme Court, and Laveyan Satanism in one thread. Some say navigating the VA benefits system is the fifth circle of hell.

I think you mean navigating VA HR.

 

[Sanman]

I think you mean navigating VA HR.

Nope, that is the 6th circle.

 

[CobraMedic]

Anyone able to explain in non-legalese what the rationale was for the ruling? I'm not disagreeing, of course! Just curious. I think I'm surprised some of these judges would go against the veteran.

Just an FYI, this guy who spent 1 week in boot camp before getting kicked out is not a Veteran. You can call him the guy who did not make it through boot camp but please don't call him a Veteran. It's very aggravating to us Veterans when VA psychologists don't know the difference.

 

[cara susanna]

Just an FYI, this guy who spent 1 week in boot camp before getting kicked out is not a Veteran. You can call him the guy who did not make it through boot camp but please don't call him a Veteran. It's very aggravating to us Veterans when VA psychologists don't know the difference.

Sorry, I didn't read the details close enough to see that he didn't make it through bootcamp. I definitely know what makes someone a veteran or not, since part of my administrative role entails working closely with VA eligiblity.

 

[WisNeuro]

Sorry, I didn't read the details close enough to see that he didn't make it through bootcamp. I definitely know what makes someone a veteran or not, since part of my administrative role entails working closely with VA eligiblity.

From a technical view of statute, I believe that someone who had an inuury in training can still qualify as a Veteran

"Veteran has the meaning given the term in 38
U.S.C. 101(2). A Reservist or member of the
National Guard called to Federal active duty or
disabled from a disease or injury incurred or
aggravated in line of duty or while in training
status also qualify as a veteran."

 

[Sanman]

From a technical view of statute, I believe that someone who had an inuury in training can still qualify as a Veteran

"Veteran has the meaning given the term in 38
U.S.C. 101(2). A Reservist or member of the
National Guard called to Federal active duty or
disabled from a disease or injury incurred or
aggravated in line of duty or while in training
status also qualify as a veteran."

From my understanding the term veteran has more to do with how you were discharged than whether you made through basic training. I see veterans who were injured during training and never made it to service but have an honorable discharge and a service connection. Legally, they are as much a veteran as anyone else.

 

[Dr_Bee]

From my understanding the term veteran has more to do with how you were discharged than whether you made through basic training. I see veterans who were injured during training and never made it to service but have an honorable discharge as a service connection. Legally, they are as much a veteran as anyone else.

Yep - I happened to see folks who served in the military for multiple years but received an "other than honorable" discharge and in the chart it literally stated "NOT A VETERAN." They were later denied services at the VA because they were "NOT A VETERAN." Don't know how often it happens, but thought it was interesting to be considered "NOT A VETERAN" despite serving multiple years.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Yep - I happened to see folks who served in the military for multiple years but received an "other than honorable" discharge and in the chart it literally stated "NOT A VETERAN." They were later denied services at the VA because they were "NOT A VETERAN." Don't know how often it happens, but thought it was interesting to be considered "NOT A VETERAN" despite serving multiple years.

Not sure if they put "NOT A VETERAN" in charts (I only ever recall seeing flags for spouses who had some access to VA services), but VA fairly recently expanded some services, such as some mental health services, to people with other than honorable discharges.

 

[cara susanna]

I thought that there was a basic requirement for minimum time of service to qualify. I am a bit rusty, though! I only know the rules for my specific population (MST), which have changed over the recent years.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Well, that's the end of American democracy (not an exaggeration)

 

[WisNeuro]

2022 FiveThirtyEight Election Forecast

Latest forecasts and polls for the 2022 midterm elections from ABC News’s FiveThirtyEight

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

Just in case anyone was wondering how things are currently looking in early goings, lots of time to go, though.

 

[futureapppsy2]

2022 FiveThirtyEight Election Forecast

Latest forecasts and polls for the 2022 midterm elections from ABC News’s FiveThirtyEight

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

Just in case anyone was wondering how things are currently looking in early goings, lots of time to go, though.

I’m somewhat more convinced by this methodology, fwiw: Predicting the 2022 Elections | Polls and Political News

 

[WisNeuro]

I’m somewhat more convinced by this methodology, fwiw: Predicting the 2022 Elections | Polls and Political News

I'm not as familiar with that site, but I'll look into it. 538 has been fairly accurate with projections in recent elections, above and beyond many of the bnig name national pollsters, so they're one of my go-tos. They're also meticulously transparent with their methodology and data, which I like.

 

[Sanman]

I thought that there was a basic requirement for minimum time of service to qualify. I am a bit rusty, though! I only know the rules for my specific population (MST), which have changed over the recent years.

Because I am bored with paperwork:

​

veteran​

(2) The term “veteran” means a person who served in the active military, naval, air, or space service, and who was discharged or released therefrom under conditions other than dishonorable.

active military, naval, air, or space service​

(24) The term “active military, naval, air, or space service” includes— (A) active duty; (B) any period of active duty for training during which the individual concerned was disabled or died from a disease or injury incurred or aggravated in line of duty; and (C) any period of inactive duty training during which the individual concerned was disabled or died— (i) from an injury incurred or aggravated in line of duty; or (ii) from an acute myocardial infarction, a cardiac arrest, or a cerebrovascular accident occurring during such training.

Source​

38 USC § 101(2)