surgeons making millions

[Dr.Sticks]

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I'd rather make less money and help a community.. Like Dr.Quinn Medicine Woman or Dr.Baker (regarding Dr.Quinn holy crap, face transplants, craniotomies, mastectomies, etc all in the 1800s? wow LOL all by candle light too!!)

 

[Winged Scapula]

This obituary caught my eye. Granted, this guy didn't make bank until he was in his 80s but
"In 1981, Dr. Balazs, his wife and his son, Andre, founded Biomatrix, a biotechnology company that developed six hyaluronan products. It was sold in 2000 to Genzyme for an estimated $738 million."

Interesting. I didn't know that.

I'm more familiar with his son as owner of The Standard and Chateaux Marmot, and for dating Uma Thurman, Chelsea Handler and a host of other models/actresses.

 

[WingedOx]

It's non-reimbursable and relatively straightforward.

Seems like perfect use of a mid-level.

There are a lot of research proposals right now looking at eliminating the "routine" postop appointment entirely and replacing it with teleconferencing

For reference this is for ophthalmologists and having ODs do the followup. I'll let those in their own profession chime in... especially since my own specialty doesn't exactly have equivalent (I mean, I guess you could do ECT all day every day, but you'd probably have to hate psychiatry to do that).

 

[PhillyMed777]

One of my parents got offered a job there.

ok...if i ever get a job offer and its <3 mil, i'll be very disappointed in you
🙂

 

[Winged Scapula]

Most surgeons work more than double that.

No they don't.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

Hey if you're making millions in manhattan maybe you could put a down payment on this?
http://realestate.nytimes.com/sales/detail/46-1987320/200-East-69th-Street-NEW-YORK-NY-10021

 

[Seth Joo]

No they don't.

According to FACS, the statistic is supposed to be 50-60 hours a week. Many of the ones I know work more than that.

 

[Dr. Death]

And we all know that "the people Seth Joo knows" is a more representative sample than actual surveys and testimony from people who actually work in the field.

 

[allantois]

And we all know that "the people Seth Joo knows" is a more representative sample than actual surveys and testimony from people who actually work in the field.

50-60 hours is still a lot IMHO

 

[Winged Scapula]

According to FACS, the statistic is supposed to be 50-60 hours a week. Many of the ones I know work more than that.

But that's not what you said.

In response to somebody talking about 40 hour work weeks you said MOST surgeons work MORE THAN DOUBLE that.

I would counter that some work more than 80 hrs per week but most do not.

 

[StudyLater]

Explain the ethical issue with having mid level providers take care of routine postop care?

They're taking our jobs.

Because as everyone knows, PA school is just accelerated med school without residency.

Probably when they are old, maybe their kids and spouses enjoy their money.

This is stupid. I will spend every red (and white and blue) cent before anyone in my family gets their hands on it. Kids will be homeschooled while they work for their own college tuition, if they decide to go. Wife will drive a golf cart. I will bike to work, complete with snazzy safety helmet.

Many of those high performance European cars are such a wasteful indulgence anyway. It would be better to rent one for a day and drive it like it was meant to be driven on a private road or race track. There are places where you can actually do this.

Don't get me started.

You might as well just walk up to a homeless child, waft 50k in front of his/her nose, then proceed to douse it in kerosine and set fire to it.

 

[Spinach Dip]

They're taking our jobs.

Because as everyone knows, PA school is just accelerated med school without residency.



This is stupid. I will spend every red (and white and blue) cent before anyone in my family gets their hands on it. Kids will be homeschooled while they work for their own college tuition, if they decide to go. Wife will drive a golf cart. I will bike to work, complete with snazzy safety helmet.


Don't get me started.

You might as well just walk up to a homeless child, waft 50k in front of his/her nose, then proceed to douse it in kerosine and set fire to it.

If I had a device with which to measure sarcasm, it'd be going berserk right now.

 

[StudyLater]

If I had a device with which to measure sarcasm, it'd be going berserk right now.

Serious on the second thing. Except I assume my wife would have something better than an MRS degree, and as such she would actually be employed. Therefore she will not need me to provide her with vehicles, or anything else for that matter. I'm just saying if I had to, we're going electric.

She will likely drive a mid-sized sedan. She wanted a black one, but instead chose white when I advised her that it could be a possible safety hazard if she's ever driving at night with the kids in the back, as white just stands out more.

My kids will also realistically enter college at 11. This is of course considering the scientifically-proven fact that not participating in compulsory education raises one's IQ by an average of 52 +/- 28 (ref: super high-up prestigious journal I read because I'm important and educated so I use my free time to read academic journals). Hence it should only take like 5 years max to get through everything up to the end of HS. Ryan's going in when he's 12, but only because he needs the extra year to do like 20 CLEP exams so he doesn't have to waste any time on the BS freshie-sophmore courses. I thought it was a good idea, so I told him I'd get him an Xbox Infiniti and "Call of Duty 68: Really F*CKING Modern Warfare, Bro" when he's done, so it makes no difference to him.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Dr. Seuss?

Lol, Dartmouth Med is named after him!

 

[tortelliniboy]

Here's what I posted in the other thread for you.
It's not rocket science. Private practice (or productivity based) income depends primarily on 2 things.
Volume.
Payer mix.
That's it.
Maybe you can scam some named academic professorship for an extra $100k/yr for being great or the only one in the division, or be a research god and chairman and command a slice of everyone's pie for a few hundred thousand more, but it's still all about volume and payer mix.
Work 3 1/2 days a week in an area/system full of Medicare/Medicaid/self pay/trauma and you're at the bottom, bust your hump in a practice full of insured patients and you're at the top. I know 2 ENT surgeons in the same group, though they have different subspecialties, one works like a dog 7-7, little vaca, but many 3 day weekends, and makes about $1M, the other works as little as possible, takes extra vacation, golfing 1/2 days at least 1 day a week, out early most days, etc. and barely makes over 300k. They're both thrilled with their jobs.
Some of these averages you see can exclude call compensation, which for a neurosurgeon can be very high. Split call with 2 other guys at a place offering 2-3k/night and you're looking at an extra 2-400k. But you're on call for trauma 120+ nights a year. Our neurosurgeons all make over $1m, and they work their a$$es off for it. Their first wives are very happy.
And as WS noted above, ownership of a procedural facility can be extremely lucrative as you are getting fees for your services plus a share of the facility fee. One group I looked at owned their own anesthesia billing company. Partners took home a share of the profits of that company for a very reasonable buy in. It was not a fortune, but ~20k a year in passive income for a profitable, established, growing, and independent business isn't a bad deal at all.
I didn't pick the highest paying job I was offered, but I thought long and hard about where I wanted to be to weather the coming storm and chose a place where I don't work very hard (50hrs/wk), take little call (<2x/month), have good vaca/non clinical time, and still make a good income because of efficiency in the system and good payer mix, and very important for me- a very long and very stable history at a growing practice that is a regional and national (and international) leader. I didn't want to relocate if at all possible. If you want to make as much money as possible, there are jobs for you, but you will work 2x as hard.

just out of curiosity are you pain, general, or mix? And in your opinion as far as the optimal volume/payer mix for non-pain, days filled with ears/eyes?

 

[skinofteeth]

Probably when they are old, maybe their kids and spouses enjoy their money.

Gotta get that MRS degree if med school doesn't pan out lol
😍
kidding...

 

[Stagg737]

Then, when do they enjoy their millions? 🙄

After 20 years of busting their a**es when they're retired at 55-60 years old.

50-60 hours is still a lot IMHO

60 might be a little high, but 50 hours is pretty standard for most fields. When you take into account charting, other work taken home, and call I don't think 60 hours is uncommon at all.

 

[LizzyM]

Hey if you're making millions in manhattan maybe you could put a down payment on this?
http://realestate.nytimes.com/sales/detail/46-1987320/200-East-69th-Street-NEW-YORK-NY-10021

Within walking distance of the Hospital for Special Surgery. No need for a car.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

Within walking distance of the Hospital for Special Surgery. No need for a car.

Probably could afford a private ex-marine/mossad driver/body guard to drive your vehicle for you.
They cost about 100k a year

 

[LizzyM]

Probably could afford a private ex-marine/mossad driver/body guard to drive your vehicle for you.
They cost about 100k a year

About the same as the cost of a parking space on the UES. Walk, taxi, car service is the way to roll in that 'hood.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

About the same as the cost of a parking space on the UES. Walk, taxi, car service is the way to roll in that 'hood.

So if you're make 4-5 million a year in Manhattan, would you live modestly or lavishly?
I have a feeling modestly.. lol

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

So if you're make 4-5 million a year in Manhattan, would you live modestly or lavishly?
I have a feeling modestly.. lol

I'd live on the UWS if I had that kind of $$.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

I'd live on the UWS if I had that kind of $$.

I thought the UES was where the rich people lived.. lol
I guess I'm too country to understand city politics.. XD

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I thought the UES was where the rich people lived.. lol
I guess I'm too country to understand city politics.. XD

Rich people live all over Manhattan-lol.
I just think the UWS is prettier. It has more of that vintage Manhattan look and might also be pricier than the UES.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

Rich people live all over Manhattan-lol.
I just think the UWS is prettier. It has more of that vintage Manhattan look and might also be pricier than the UES.

haha
Now if you could make that kind of cash..
I suppose in a concierge model of medicine where you cater to the rich only it could net you millions, plus many times over if you invest wisely..

To be honest, I think there will be a HUGE market for concierge doctors if this single payer bull crap passes.. We live in a society where everyone wants everything right then, and there..
The rich will totally pay extra to see a physician the same day.. And they do it already!
Imagine the demand if we do get single payer.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

haha
Now if you could make that kind of cash..
I suppose in a concierge model of medicine where you cater to the rich only it could net you millions, plus many times over if you invest wisely..

To be honest, I think there will be a HUGE market for concierge doctors if this single payer bull crap passes.. We live in a society where everyone wants everything right then, and there..
The rich will totally pay extra to see a physician the same day.. And they do it already!
Imagine the demand if we do get single payer.

I'm pretty sure some of the HSS doctors don't take insurance. And such a practice is probably more common in areas where there's a substantial concentration of wealth. It's definitely not easy to pull off though.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

I'm pretty sure some of the HSS doctors don't take insurance. And such a practice is probably more common in areas where there's a substantial concentration of wealth. It's definitely not easy to pull off though.

Yeah, you really have to be established to pull it off I suppose.
Plus you got a lot of competition. I guess prestige matters in this case? If you went to a prestigious residency you might get recruited by top practices/hospitals.

I have no idea how it works though.. I know that going to Harvard Law will set you up with a great high six figures job vs going to some unknown state law school.
Maybe someone more qualified than I am can answer this one..
"Does residency prestige matter?"

 

[allantois]

Yeah, you really have to be established to pull it off I suppose.
Plus you got a lot of competition. I guess prestige matters in this case? If you went to a prestigious residency you might get recruited by top practices/hospitals.

I have no idea how it works though.. I know that going to Harvard Law will set you up with a great high six figures job vs going to some unknown state law school.
Maybe someone more qualified than I am can answer this one..
"Does residency prestige matter?"

What's up with this mentality of getting recruited by someone?

 

[Psai]

It's non-reimbursable and relatively straightforward.

Seems like perfect use of a mid-level.

There are a lot of research proposals right now looking at eliminating the "routine" postop appointment entirely and replacing it with teleconferencing

If someone sticks their hand in me, I would hope that they would take the time to say hello to me afterwards and make sure I'm okay. Why would I want to see a mid-level who had nothing to do with the operation?

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

If someone sticks their hand in me, I would hope that they would take the time to say hello to me afterwards and make sure I'm okay. Why would I want to see a mid-level who had nothing to do with the operation?

Some midlevels are involved in surgeries. However, I do see your point. I too would rather see a doctor after the procedure.

 

[Psai]

Some midlevels are involved in surgeries. However, I do see your point. I too would rather see a doctor after the procedure.

So are scrub techs. I still wouldn't want to go see them after I've had my procedure done.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

So are scrub techs. I still wouldn't want to go see them after I've had my procedure done.

I agree with you. Although, unlike scrub techs, PAs are trained to see patients

 

[AvrgPreMedKid]

500k is not unheard of in oral surgery (the average is 460, and 600 for top 25%), and no you don't have to work like a dog (averages are 41 and 45 hours respectively).

My uncle is a maxillofacial surgeon, and he pulls over $1,000,000. He also only works 4 days per week. He has his own practice in a kind of rural area. Idk how relevant oral/maxillofacial surgery is to this threat, though - they are usually DDS/MD, DMD/MD, or just DMD's or DDS's.

 

[allantois]

My uncle is a maxillofacial surgeon, and he pulls over $1,000,000. He also only works 4 days per week. He has his own practice in a kind of rural area. Idk how relevant oral/maxillofacial surgery is to this threat, though - they are usually DDS/MD, DMD/MD, or just DMD's or DDS's.

It really is the most lifestyle-friendly surgical field out there. They can also do a fellowship in facial plastics these days (although not common since oral surgery will make you more money).

 

[AvrgPreMedKid]

It really is the most lifestyle-friendly surgical field as well. They can also do facial plastics these days.

Yep. I see that you are pre-dent. Lucky you! Lol. I'm too deep in to switch to dental, or I would try to shoot for that and take over my uncle's practice.

 

[WingedOx]

It really is the most lifestyle-friendly surgical field out there. They can also do a fellowship in facial plastics these days (although not common since oral surgery will make you more money).

yeah, but the inside of the mouth is icky.