Sutter Health / Palo Alto Foundation Medical Group

[Teleblockop]

Hi all,

I am looking into the northern California due to significant other's nonmedical job prospects. I am not from California but since my partner is from a suburb in the Bay, I was looking for new opportunities and came across Sutter Health, affiliated with Palo Alto Foundation Medical Group.

From what I understand it is
400+ provider multispeciality group. Numerous offices spread throughout Bay area.
Starting base salary $400,000 guarantee with RVU Bonus potential
Purely based RVU-based compensation after 2 years
4 1/2 day work week
Become eligible for a shareholder track after 2 years with profit sharing

On impression, it seems like a well established multispeciality group. Being not from the region, just wanted to see what others know about this practice.

What is the reputation of this group in the community?
Is this like Kaiser Foundation?
What are potential benefits and downsides of joining this group?

Would appreciate any feedback or information

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[gutonc]

Sutter is a well respected MSG and has a lot of resources that make some of it's practices academ-ish with clinical trials and research opportunities.

You need to get them to tell you the median post-guarantee compensation for the group as a whole and the office(s) you'll be working at to get a better idea of whether the compensation is right for you.

I'd also check the call schedule and expectations.

I think 4.5 days a week is dumb...4 or GTFO.

Overall seems like a decent option.

 

[Angler]

PAMF is very well respected and it's a big player in No Cal.

Is this like Kaiser Foundation?

Kaiser is completely different! Their medical group employs docs to provide care to Kaiser patients. Docs don't have much control over their schedule or office setup. Benefits are good; compensation minus benefits likely better elsewhere. The medical group is their employer, but docs own a part of it, so leadership is theoretically held accountable. Biggest attraction to Kaiser is that docs don't have to worry about RVU's, hiring, firing, etc. They just show up to work and take care of patients.

 

[onconc]

Hi all,

I am looking into the northern California due to significant other's nonmedical job prospects. I am not from California but since my partner is from a suburb in the Bay, I was looking for new opportunities and came across Sutter Health, affiliated with Palo Alto Foundation Medical Group.

From what I understand it is
400+ provider multispeciality group. Numerous offices spread throughout Bay area.
Starting base salary $400,000 guarantee with RVU Bonus potential
Purely based RVU-based compensation after 2 years
4 1/2 day work week
Become eligible for a shareholder track after 2 years with profit sharing

On impression, it seems like a well established multispeciality group. Being not from the region, just wanted to see what others know about this practice.

What is the reputation of this group in the community?
Is this like Kaiser Foundation?
What are potential benefits and downsides of joining this group?

Would appreciate any feedback or information

Reputation is very good. Stable company. Decent WLB
Not like kaiser.

What is the RVU conversion rate they are offering after 2 years ? I mean dollars per RVU?

 

[Duke1K]

Hi all,

I am looking into the northern California due to significant other's nonmedical job prospects. I am not from California but since my partner is from a suburb in the Bay, I was looking for new opportunities and came across Sutter Health, affiliated with Palo Alto Foundation Medical Group.

From what I understand it is
400+ provider multispeciality group. Numerous offices spread throughout Bay area.
Starting base salary $400,000 guarantee with RVU Bonus potential
Purely based RVU-based compensation after 2 years
4 1/2 day work week
Become eligible for a shareholder track after 2 years with profit sharing

On impression, it seems like a well established multispeciality group. Being not from the region, just wanted to see what others know about this practice.

What is the reputation of this group in the community?
Is this like Kaiser Foundation?
What are potential benefits and downsides of joining this group?

Would appreciate any feedback or information

PAMF is good. Stanford should've bought them years ago when they had the chance, but didn't and now they're competitors. They have an established network of providers across the Bay Area and provide overall decent care with excellent facilities in general. Your offer is pretty standard for NorCal in my experience, both in pay and work arrangement.

Kaiser's model is very different; while PAMF is a typical group practice, Kaiser is a self-contained system of healthcare delivery; they are not RVU-based and are completely physician-run. In practice, this means that things like prior auth/fighting with insurance is not a thing - if you feel like a drug is required for your patient, you just order it and no one calls you out on it. You do not have RVU pressures other than a general expectation to fill your clinic schedule, and benefits/work-life balance are generally good. There are clinical trial and research arms as well. My experience is that they do care of populations very well (general screening, etc.) but complex oncologic care can be lacking.

 

[ShuperNewbie]

Agreed with everything above. Both Kaiser and PAMF/Sutter are extremely well established and respected in the area. The fundamental difference for oncologists is the model of healthcare delivery that people above were alluding to.

-PAMF/Sutter is a traditional movie theater. They bill more depending on how many people watch your movie. This can feel "fairer" to people who want to hustle, be their own boss, and reap the profits of their success. It's like a traditional capitalist model.
-Kaiser is a Netflix. They don't make money based on how many people stream a movie, they make money based on how many subscribers they can attract. People still work hard, obviously, but this model can work better for people who don't want the pressures and politics that usually comes with a big system, and there's a lean towards QOL. It's like a traditional socialist model.

Neither is right nor wrong. It all depends on your preferences and your personality. I know people who are very happy in both systems, just pick what's right for you.

 

[bobsmith]

Agree with others that Sutter / PAMF is generally a well run, well respected institution.

That being said, they have many locations so hard to generalize -- for example, a well-established clinic with a handful of docs who have been there for a while is going to be a different experience than if you're going to be one of only 1-2 new doctors at a new site. I know some doctors who have been there their entire careers, and then also a few that have left for various reasons.

RVU Bonus potential
Purely based RVU-based compensation after 2 years

Would be helpful to hear ranges for what they've told you

 

[Teleblockop]

Appreciate all the replies, they have been super helpful in understanding PAMF and Kaiser.

From discussing more with the recruiter, there is only 2-3 oncologists at this location. Will follow up with one of their providers. I guess I would suspect q2-3 based on just that fact.

I was told the doctors earn about 5000-7000 median RVUs annually and salary range can be from mid to high 6 figures once partner (he could not give me any more specifics prior to offer/contract)

 

[gutonc]

Appreciate all the replies, they have been super helpful in understanding PAMF and Kaiser.

From discussing more with the recruiter, there is only 2-3 oncologists at this location. Will follow up with one of their providers. I guess I would suspect q2-3 based on just that fact.

I was told the doctors earn about 5000-7000 median RVUs annually and salary range can be from mid to high 6 figures once partner (he could not give me any more specifics prior to offer/contract)

That’s a very reasonable RVU goal. The call may be miserable or may be just fine, depending on the clinic and hospital situation. Definitely something to ask about.

And if the recruiter is internal, that’s a bulls*** and unacceptable answer about the median compensation and $/wRVU. If it’s an external recruiter, that's a pretty typical response and you just need to ask the medical director or some administrator about it. Definitely get that information before you sign a contract.

As a medical director, I always give potential recruits all of those numbers early on in the discussion.

 

[onconc]

I was told the doctors earn about 5000-7000 median RVUs annually and salary range can be from mid to high 6 figures once partner (he could not give me any more specifics prior to offer/contract)

The critical piece of information missing is the dollars per RVU conversion rate.

 

[HemOncCheng]

I totally agree, if they hide these internal number, it not a fair recruitment.

 

[onconc]

Sutter job posting with salary numbers in norcal

We offer:

• Salary: $575,000 to $600,000, depending on experience
• Competitive signing bonus $100,000 - $200,000
• Directorship compensation at $80,000 to $100,000
• Total first year package $755,000 - $900,000 based on experience

@Teleblockop , fyi ^^

btw, what is the RVU-to-dollar conversion numbers you heard from them ?