Systemic dentistry

[SugarNaCl]

I don't know if this thread will last long or not...but I thought it may be 'cool' to have a recent thread on how oral health affects the entire body. The suggestion that the low grade inflammation of periodontal disease contributes to or intensifies the effects of cardiovascular disease, preterm birth and diabetes is pretty interesting. Since cytokine and chemokine production can cause all sorts of complications and/or therapeutic effects depending on the system you are considering... this stuff seems pretty important. What do you find interesting out there that relates to systemic dentistry?

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[collegeboy30000]

porphyromonas gingivalis


http://www.dental.ufl.edu:1180/Offices/Oral_Bio/Faculty_pages/AProgulske_Fox.html

 

[SugarNaCl]

porphyromonas gingivalis


http://www.dental.ufl.edu:1180/Offices/Oral_Bio/Faculty_pages/AProgulske_Fox.html

Oh wow, yeah...that IS interesting. So they are suggesting a more active hypothesis, more along the line of a bacterial infectious disease that penetrates cells of the vascular system directly, disrupting/destroying endothelial cells... rather than more indirect generalized inflammation. How cool...so I guess this could technically have an impact on the potentiation of any acute thromboembolic event? What I think is interesting about this, from reading more on it, is that there seems to be evidence that this gram negative bacteria's primary mode isn't through extracellular methods, but rather translocation directly into neighboring cells. In a sense then, it is protected largely from B cell response while it is colonizing. That's pretty interesting when a bacterial infection can spread, largely without running into antibody production! I wonder how long ago research on this started.

 

[collegeboy30000]

For Senior seminar I presented on the microbe porphyromonas gingivalis


http://www.joponline.org/doi/abs/10.1902/jop.2006.050336

http://www.perio.org/consumer/heart-disease.htm?rss

http://www.joponline.org/doi/abs/10.1902/jop.2000.72.9.1221

http://www.pgingivalis.org/pathogen.htm

 

[SugarNaCl]

Is it possible that only 2 people care about this on SDN?

 

[collegeboy30000]

lol, maybe if the title of the thread was, "***Offical...[insert something here]/ Offical name the most interesting microbe/Do I have a chance microbe?/ Please evaluate this microbe....etc"

 

[SugarNaCl]

lol, maybe if the title of the thread was, "***Offical...[insert something here]/ Offical name the most interesting microbe/Do I have a chance microbe?/ Please evaluate this microbe....etc"

HAHAHAHAHAH... I wish I had thought like that before I started this "went over like a lead balloon" thread.

 

[cdmOMR]

This thread would probably do a little better in the Dent section....not many pre-dents have too much knowledge about oral pathogens and connections to systemic diseases when they have to worry about gen chem and orgo and all the boring stuff.

I personally wish I had more time to devote to studying more useful things like this, but I have enough on my plate as it is. (however I did do a little research paper on bisphosphonate related osteonecrosis of the jaw for my Orgo class).

 

[Regmata]

The systemic effects of oral infection have been studied since 1985 or so. There was an increase in research over the last decade. Research findings have varied a bit. There are several plausible hypotheses for the mechanism although the degree of the actual effect and increased risk for atherosclerosis hasn't been well established.

It is a very interesting field of research though. Oral pathogens have been found in atherosclerosis plaques, suggesting that they do pass into systemic circulation and increase the risk for developing atherosclerosis. Increased risk for atherosclerosis in turn, likely increases risk for CVD. A direct correlation has been difficult to identify due to a multitude of confounding factors (e.g. smoking, diet, lack of exercise).

Oral inflammation releases cytokines, CRP, increase nuetrophil numbers etc...the inflammation damages the bodies own tissue, leading to more problems.

There are several good peer reviews on the subject that sum up the research. I believe the last one was in 2005 by Mattila et al. Although there has been a good bit of research since.

Periodontology can offer quite an interesting link between medicine and dentistry.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

From my experience of going to periodontal seminars is that there are more and more evidence that periodontal disease have a role in systemic disease. I know that advanced stage of periodontitis (plaque covering teeth, loose teeth, red gums with pus oozing out) makes the his/her partner want to puke when they French kiss (rapid expulsion of stomach content). Thay's all I know about the role of dentistry in systemic "well being". DP

 

[Regmata]

A big problem with figuring out exactly what that role is, is that patients with periodontal disease have often not only not taken care of their teeth, but have not taken care of the rest of their bodies either. At the end of the day, the other risky lifestyle choices these patients make may well have had a much greater effect on their systemic health than their rotting teeth did...

 

[Fuji]

Beyond the pathogenic effects, you also have to consider the impact on nutrition that accompanies oral pain and/or endentulism. Patients with meth mouth often revert to high sugar and starch diets because they are easy to ingest (and the drug makes them crave sweets). TMD can also affect eating and sleeping habits.

 

[seansk]

I don't know if this thread will last long or not...but I thought it may be 'cool' to have a recent thread on how oral health affects the entire body. The suggestion that the low grade inflammation of periodontal disease contributes to or intensifies the effects of cardiovascular disease, preterm birth and diabetes is pretty interesting. Since cytokine and chemokine production can cause all sorts of complications and/or therapeutic effects depending on the system you are considering... this stuff seems pretty important. What do you find interesting out there that relates to systemic dentistry?

Don't get ahead of yourself!! you'll learn all this in D-school, and if you're in Dental school, this topic should be posted in the dental section!!

 

[aphistis]

Don't get ahead of yourself!! you'll learn all this in D-school, and if you're in Dental school, this topic should be posted in the dental section!!

I hate to be the wet blanket here, but don't get too carried away with the "systemic dentistry" stuff just yet. You'll learn this when you get into school and start dealing with periodontists, but a lot of the recent research they're running around beating their chests over needs to be taken with a few big grains of salt. Many, if not most, of these studies have serious issues of confounding variables and/or research bias that needs to be resolved before anything is considered conclusive.

 

[collegeboy30000]

Don't get ahead of yourself!! you'll learn all this in D-school, and if you're in Dental school, this topic should be posted in the dental section!!

Hardly anyone ever replies on the dental section, most of them lurk back to the pre-dent forum.

Whats wrong with having a discussion that is very relevant to our profession? Yea were not in D-school yet, but does that mean to exclude topics that do matter? Or do you prefer the
"[Insert school name here] vs [insert school name here]"
or the--
"Please help/advice/evaluate me,...I have a 4.0 and a 23AA...Do I even stand a chance to get in?"
--topics that are recycled every three days?

 

[cdmOMR]

I think its good to have convo's like this, I just dont think that you are going to get as comprehensive of a discussion here in the pre-dent compared to in the dent forum, albeit it would probably take longer for people to respond because most of the dent students are, well...busy.

 

[seansk]

I think its good to have convo's like this, I just dont think that you are going to get as comprehensive of a discussion here in the pre-dent compared to in the dent forum, albeit it would probably take longer for people to respond because most of the dent students are, well...busy.

well said

 

[SugarNaCl]

I hate to be the wet blanket here, but don't get too carried away with the "systemic dentistry" stuff just yet. You'll learn this when you get into school and start dealing with periodontists, but a lot of the recent research they're running around beating their chests over needs to be taken with a few big grains of salt. Many, if not most, of these studies have serious issues of confounding variables and/or research bias that needs to be resolved before anything is considered conclusive.

See aphistis...it is ok to be a wet blanket, but having my MS in neuroimmunology, having done my 2 years of research and thesis on Interleukin 1 beta production by macrophages through utilization of their own catecholamine production...binding to their own adrenergic receptors, and subsequent years of cancer research, I would like to believe that not everything is so cut and dry. I'm not an expert, of course, but I would hate to consider my time and publications wasted. If innate immune cells (macrophages in my research) can act on themselves to have systemic effects (raising and lowering of blood pressure etc), I am not above believing that oral pathogens, inflammation etc may contribute to systemic effects as well. Actually at the cancer hospital where I am involved in my current research, there is a whole dental department (not me...I'm in the dept of medicine) dealing with clinical research along with other invitro and invivo studies obviously. Indeed some of these studies look into preventing oral cancer and into the possibility that some oral viruses may potentiate the development of oral cancer...and you better believe that cancer has systemic effects! I'm sure you do.

I believe that nothing is true until proven scientifically and nothing is impossible until refuted scientifically over..and over again.

 

[SugarNaCl]

Hardly anyone ever replies on the dental section, most of them lurk back to the pre-dent forum.

Whats wrong with having a discussion that is very relevant to our profession? Yea were not in D-school yet, but does that mean to exclude topics that do matter? Or do you prefer the
"[Insert school name here] vs [insert school name here]"
or the--
"Please help/advice/evaluate me,...I have a 4.0 and a 23AA...Do I even stand a chance to get in?"
--topics that are recycled every three days?

I think I'm in love with you... will you marry me? Of course my husband and your s/o may have a problem with that

 

[Dauber]

Don't get ahead of yourself!! you'll learn all this in D-school, and if you're in Dental school, this topic should be posted in the dental section!!

I hate to be the wet blanket here, but don't get too carried away with the "systemic dentistry" stuff just yet. You'll learn this when you get into school and start dealing with periodontists, but a lot of the recent research they're running around beating their chests over needs to be taken with a few big grains of salt. Many, if not most, of these studies have serious issues of confounding variables and/or research bias that needs to be resolved before anything is considered conclusive.

No kidding. Pre-Dental means "before dental school." As much as I'd like to read a discussion by pre-dents on what they googled...

 

[koochooloo]

See aphistis...it is ok to be a wet blanket, but having my MS in neuroimmunology, having done my 2 years of research and thesis on Interleukin 1 beta production by macrophages through utilization of their own catecholamine production...binding to their own adrenergic receptors, and subsequent years of cancer research, I would like to believe that not everything is so cut and dry. I'm not an expert, of course, but I would hate to consider my time and publications wasted. If innate immune cells (macrophages in my research) can act on themselves to have systemic effects (raising and lowering of blood pressure etc), I am not above believing that oral pathogens, inflammation etc may contribute to systemic effects as well. Actually at the cancer hospital where I am involved in my current research, there is a whole dental department (not me...I'm in the dept of medicine) dealing with clinical research along with other invitro and invivo studies obviously. Indeed some of these studies look into preventing oral cancer and into the possibility that some oral viruses may potentiate the development of oral cancer...and you better believe that cancer has systemic effects! I'm sure you do.

I believe that nothing is true until proven scientifically and nothing is impossible until refuted scientifically over..and over again.

hahahah you wet blanket

 

[SugarNaCl]

hahahah you wet blanket

Go home Smart Ass! Aphistis is the wet blanket here, not me!

 

[SugarNaCl]

No kidding. Pre-Dental means "before dental school." As much as I'd like to read a discussion by pre-dents on what they googled...

<---- This pre-dent (for 4 more months before my promotion) searches scientific journals, not wikipedia The dental forum is virtually non-exist.

 

[Dauber]

<---- This pre-dent (for 4 more months before my promotion) searches scientific journals, not wikipedia

Haha alright alright. But you may be the only one.

 

[collegeboy30000]

Haha alright alright. But you may be the only one.

No, I too searched on scientific journals

....

"How you doin'?"

 

[koochooloo]

"How you doin'?"

HAHAAHH scandalous...

 

[SugarNaCl]

Kooch... your dancing banana could be misinterpreted as being scandalous.

 

[darksky]

of course this stuff is important!! systemic effect is just common sense.
anything, bacteria or whatever, gets into the blood system and the lymph system and travels to every corner of the organs. if the body immune system can not fight off toxans then you have a big medical or dental? problem. anybody got 18 on the rc dat can read about this stuff.

 

[darksky]

many old timer dentists think systemic dentistry is ???
because they used to work without glove and mask before the aids epidemic.
some still wear the cheap masks that have big hole, dont filter out microbes.
their immune system works very hard to fight off toxans.

 

[koochooloo]

Kooch... your dancing banana could be misinterpreted as being scandalous.

that would not be a misinterpretation...

 

[aphistis]

See aphistis...it is ok to be a wet blanket, but having my MS in neuroimmunology, having done my 2 years of research and thesis on Interleukin 1 beta production by macrophages through utilization of their own catecholamine production...binding to their own adrenergic receptors, and subsequent years of cancer research, I would like to believe that not everything is so cut and dry. I'm not an expert, of course, but I would hate to consider my time and publications wasted. If innate immune cells (macrophages in my research) can act on themselves to have systemic effects (raising and lowering of blood pressure etc), I am not above believing that oral pathogens, inflammation etc may contribute to systemic effects as well. Actually at the cancer hospital where I am involved in my current research, there is a whole dental department (not me...I'm in the dept of medicine) dealing with clinical research along with other invitro and invivo studies obviously. Indeed some of these studies look into preventing oral cancer and into the possibility that some oral viruses may potentiate the development of oral cancer...and you better believe that cancer has systemic effects! I'm sure you do.

I believe that nothing is true until proven scientifically and nothing is impossible until refuted scientifically over..and over again.

It's not a matter of thinking I'm "above" something. It's a simple question of research quality, and a lot of the studies in that area are junk that should be called propaganda instead of research. The "not everything is cut-and-dry" argument doesn't work exclusively in your favor here.

 

[SugarNaCl]

It's not a matter of thinking I'm "above" something. It's a simple question of research quality, and a lot of the studies in that area are junk that should be called propaganda instead of research. The "not everything is cut-and-dry" argument doesn't work exclusively in your favor here.

I'm gonna need some proof aph... Ok enough about this. I don't even know if you have conducted research and I'm not here to judge you. I'm a researcher (medical, not dental)...this is my current life and I hope research continues to be part of it into my dental career. I don't believe you can dispute anything that I have stated... and I am cynical enough as it is. I dont need the mod team against me As stated before I'm a skeptic who believes that nothing is true until proven scientifically and nothing is impossible until refuted scientifically.. over..and.. over again. So let's move past this if we can. I will ALWAYS believe that not everything is cut and dry. It is my job to be skeptical.

 

[darksky]

periodontitis is a leading risk factor for premature birth baby. how the heck ???
see the article

http://focus.hms.harvard.edu/1999/June25_1999/alum.html

 

[SugarNaCl]

periodontitis is a leading risk factor for premature birth baby. how the heck ???
see the article

http://focus.hms.harvard.edu/1999/June25_1999/alum.html

Hmmm... I'll have to search for this related journal. I had never heard this being a leading risk factor, just a risk factor. Interesting, but I wonder if anything has been published since on this. Looks like more of a proposal. Interested in finding out anyway... cool.