Taking Advantage of P/F Curriculum

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

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Did you use any other sources for practice questions? What sources did you like for anatomy?

For anatomy you're probably best off studying your own notes (and, you know, the cadaver you're disecting), but Netter's atlas and Rohens photos will help a lot. Look at both, decide which one you like.

Rohen's = pictures, actual cadavers. Sometimes limited, structures we were expected to know didn't always show up. But very helpful for things that were in it.

Netter's = cartoons, often much clearer for concepts and vasculature (which sometimes look nothing like what they "should" look like).

 

[bluefalcon32]

Well for example with our pathology lectures we had some great professors and some really crappy ones.

It ended up being much easier to go through RR and Pathoma before each lecture to better understand the material and go over anything they didn't cover in lecture. Then I'd just fly through the recorded lectures at 2x speed to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Both books ultimately did a better job of explaining most diseases better than most professors. Also, in some lectures our professors had a bad habit of leaving out important material so they could have more time to go over their research, talk about public health statistics, discuss current events, or go off on some tangent about their personal views on healthcare/politics/human nature etc.. Instead spending time memorizing this stuff for our next exam I focused on the important material or other material that I found interesting.

@alpinism, thanks for your insightful post. What you wrote makes sense, but I have a question. How did you know what was "more important" or how important the material was that was not covered? Did you just ensure that you knew everything in FA? Or did you set importance by being that everything in BRS Physio or Lippincott's Biochem was important and class notes are secondary? Thanks.

 

[bluefalcon32]

For anatomy you're probably best off studying your own notes (and, you know, the cadaver you're disecting), but Netter's atlas and Rohens photos will help a lot. Look at both, decide which one you like.

Rohen's = pictures, actual cadavers. Sometimes limited, structures we were expected to know didn't always show up. But very helpful for things that were in it.

Netter's = cartoons, often much clearer for concepts and vasculature (which sometimes look nothing like what they "should" look like).

@dadaddadaBATMAN, what was your opinion of Grant's? Also, in terms of knowing important structures, how did you gauge by what was important-- FA or what your Profs stressed?

 

[bluefalcon32]

For all of you medical students, what books did you like/use for each of the subjects, like Anatomy, Biochem, Physio, Embryology, Micro, Path, Behavioral etc? Thanks.

 

[Armadillos]

Didn't read most of the posts, but everyone is different so don't necessarily worry too much about what any one person suggests. I personally just trusted my medschool to know what they were doing, went to class and studied their stuff and scored well on tests. When it came time for stepI I didnt even make it through all of uWorld b/c I didnt feel like studying more than 8 hours a day and scored 250+. Everyone is different, but I will say the people designing curriculums know more than the average SDN user gives them credit for.
(Will add that I supplemented second year with pathoma b/c that guy is an incredible lecturer)

 

[Psai]

Dude just sit through your med school lectures. Anatomy atlas for year 1, rohen and thieme atlas imo. Pathoma for organ systems and maybe usmlerx. Get first aid and uworld for your dedicated study time. That's literally all you need.

Other good books: brs physiology, how the immune system works.

Learn as much as you can because you never know when that information will come in handy.

 

[bluefalcon32]

@Psai, is this book you were talking about "How the immune system works" http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/how...7294&ean=9780470657294&isbn=9780470657294&r=1

 

[Psai]

yea

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

@dadaddadaBATMAN, what was your opinion of Grant's? Also, in terms of knowing important structures, how did you gauge by what was important-- FA or what your Profs stressed?

We were given structure lists, so spelling and memorizing weren't necessary. If you aren't, god help you. Life is bad enough when it's limited to 400 or so structures on a list.
What was important was anything on the list, and anything stressed in class.

You'll pick up on it quickly, there is no magic formula.

 

[bluefalcon32]

We were given structure lists, so spelling and memorizing weren't necessary. If you aren't, god help you. Life is bad enough when it's limited to 400 or so structures on a list.
What was important was anything on the list, and anything stressed in class.

You'll pick up on it quickly, there is no magic formula.

Thanks so much. I assume similar breakdowns of importance were given in your other classs-- like Biochem, Path, Physio etc. Please correct me if I wrong, but it seems that the general consensus in terms of doing well is to (1) pay attention in class (2) use class notes & what prof says in class as a skeleton for what you must know (3) use FA to supplement important topics (4) use review books like BRS, Panthoma, Goljan, etc to supplement/clarify topics (5) do questions, questions questions (6) go in-depth into anything else presented within those books at your leisure.

To touch on another point, many have said that there is boundless info and one can go crazy trying to learn everything b/c it is impossible. With that, if I follow the above 5 pts but then supplement that with practice questions from say Kaplan Qbank, I should be fine. I ask because option (6) can last forever.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

Thanks so much. I assume similar breakdowns of importance were given in your other classs-- like Biochem, Path, Physio etc. Please correct me if I wrong, but it seems that the general consensus in terms of doing well is to (1) pay attention in class (2) use class notes & what prof says in class as a skeleton for what you must know (3) use FA to supplement important topics (4) use review books like BRS, Panthoma, Goljan, etc to supplement/clarify topics (5) do questions, questions questions (6) go in-depth into anything else presented within those books at your leisure.

To touch on another point, many have said that there is boundless info and one can go crazy trying to learn everything b/c it is impossible. With that, if I follow the above 5 pts but then supplement that with practice questions from say Kaplan Qbank, I should be fine. I ask because option (6) can last forever.

That assumption doesn't hold for our other classes. Our pharm class has a list of terms and drugs, but only because it isn't multiple choice. Our method of examination is somewhat unique so I'll avoid mentioning it (besides, it's probably useless to you).

Experiences may vary, but here's my take.

1. Yup
2. Sure, if that's your thing
3. If you have that sort of time, why not. (You won't, unless you make time for it)
4. If that's your thing...probably won't have time if you do 1/2
5. When possible. They don"t always provide them
6. see 3.

 

[DermViser]

A lot of schools only show you parts of the MSPE...they leave out the concluding page which includes the not-secret secret code word, and they leave out the appendix which gives the key to the code

Why @southernIM? Or are they afraid students will start contesting it if they're shown it and their rank isn't what they want it to be? Don't people need to know where they stand before choosing a specialty to apply to?

 

[bluefalcon32]

Why? Or are they afraid students will start contesting it? Don't people need to know where they stand before choosing a specialty to apply to?

Some schools view this as classified info and you are on a "need to know" basis. Maybe your school or the schools that you are familiar do divulge the info but some outliers do exist. I think the safe bet to approach this is to assume the worst in that (1) your school won't divulge or totally divulge the Dean's Letter to you
(2) you are ranked in MS 1 & 2 regardless of the P/F system that your school has

 

[DermViser]

Some schools view this as classified info and you are on a "need to know" basis. Maybe your school or the schools that you are familiar do divulge the info but some outliers do exist. I think the safe bet to approach this is to assume the worst in that (1) your school won't divulge or totally divulge the Dean's Letter to you (2) you are ranked in MS 1 & 2 regardless of the P/F system that your school has

I don't know any school that doesn't let you know where you stand in your class. This info, is quite necessary so you can know which specialties you have a high chance of matching into, and which specialties you don't have a high chance to match into. The point is if you know the med school you're going to (I guess you're not going to Case which is "true" P/F in the first 2 years) you can easily find out.

Some even trumpet the "true" P/F feature on their school website. Example:
https://pritzker.uchicago.edu/admissions/faq.shtml
Q. What does a Pass/Fail grading system mean?
A. Pass/Fail grading at the Pritzker School of Medicine is both a true pass/fail for years 1, 2, and 4. Third year—the clerkships—is a “graded” year with the grades of Honors, High Pass, Pass, Low Pass, and Fail. All four years are uncurved. You are evaluated on your master of the material, not your mastery compared to others in the class. These qualities—pass/fail and uncurved grading—result in a highly collaborative learning environment.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I don't know any school that doesn't let you know where you stand in your class. This info, is quite necessary so you can know which specialties you have a high chance of matching into, and which specialties you don't have a high chance to match into. The point is if you know the med school you're going to (I guess you're not going to Case which is "true" P/F in the first 2 years) you can easily find out.

Some even trumpet the "true" P/F feature on their school website. Example:
https://pritzker.uchicago.edu/admissions/faq.shtml
Q. What does a Pass/Fail grading system mean?
A. Pass/Fail grading at the Pritzker School of Medicine is both a true pass/fail for years 1, 2, and 4. Third year—the clerkships—is a “graded” year with the grades of Honors, High Pass, Pass, Low Pass, and Fail. All four years are uncurved. You are evaluated on your master of the material, not your mastery compared to others in the class. These qualities—pass/fail and uncurved grading—result in a highly collaborative learning environment.

Pritzker still uses a "secret" adjective in the MSPE - I've seen it

 

[coffeesnob]

How does "uncurved grading" result in "a highly collaborative learning environment"? Enlighten me.

 

[ChEMD]

How does "uncurved grading" result in "a highly collaborative learning environment"? Enlighten me.

I'm not sure who originally posted this, but are you being sarcastic? No curve means your performance, as reflected by your grade, is not dependent on the performance of your classmates. This makes it more likely for people to help others and work together.

 

[DermViser]

Pritzker still uses a "secret" adjective in the MSPE - I've seen it

I'm not at all disagreeing with you. My point was that in the P/F years at Pritzker (1, 2, and 4) those are in fact "true" P/F years. Thus a lot of their class rank rides on MS-3 grades. http://pritzker.uchicago.edu/current/students/ResidencyProcessGuide.pdf

• The Pritzker School of Medicine does not use a numeric ranking system. Generalized descriptors given to each student including “exceptional performer,” “outstanding,” “excellent,” “very good,” and “good” are based on the student’s performance in the third year. The MSPE appendix includes two graphs showing 1) the distribution of clerkship internal designators within the class and 2) the distribution of summary designators within the class.

I must admit that as a medical school they are very transparent about things with their own medical students.

 

[coffeesnob]

I'm not sure who originally posted this, but are you being sarcastic? No curve means your performance, as reflected by your grade, is not dependent on the performance of your classmates. This makes it more likely for people to help others and work together.

But there is still class ranking.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Learn as much as you can because you never know when that information will come in handy.

Definitely. I came across a handful of questions on Step 1 that I wouldn't have known the answer to had I not paid attention to and done well in my classes.

@Psai, is this book you were talking about "How the immune system works" http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/how...7294&ean=9780470657294&isbn=9780470657294&r=1

It's an excellent book. Not fully comprehensive, but as an intro to immunology, it's fantastic summer reading. I always thought immuno was confusing until I gave that a read.

During your immunology block/class/whatever, I also suggest giving the immuno section in Lange: Review of Medical Microbiology and Immunology a read. It's around 90 pages, but it should make immunology a breeze.

 

[DermViser]

How does "uncurved grading" result in "a highly collaborative learning environment"? Enlighten me.

Ask Pritzker - that's directly quoted off their FAQ page, not me. Assuming you're not being sarcastic, if your class is not curved, then your assigned grade is not based on OTHER people's performance, and thus you're not competing against another person in your class. It is to your benefit to master the information as best as possible and not worry about where your grade falls in relations to others bc it doesn't affect the assigning of grades, which is a moot point at Pritzker bc the only grades are "P" or "F".

 

[MilkIsGood]

Pritzker still uses a "secret" adjective in the MSPE - I've seen it

The adjectives in the MSPE only describe 3rd year performance. We are ranked for 3rd year.

 

[MilkIsGood]

How does "uncurved grading" result in "a highly collaborative learning environment"? Enlighten me.

Because if 100% of the class meets the requirements to get honors, then 100% of the class will get honors. No "only 10% of the class" crap that some other schools do.

 

[DermViser]

For all of you medical students, what books did you like/use for each of the subjects, like Anatomy, Biochem, Physio, Embryology, Micro, Path, Behavioral etc? Thanks.

Using the search function might help on this, esp. as you're asking about books for coursework vs. board review.

 

[DermViser]

The adjectives in the MSPE only describe 3rd year performance. We are ranked for 3rd year.

And they state that directly on their website:
https://pritzker.uchicago.edu/admissions/faq.shtml
Q. What does a Pass/Fail grading system mean?
A. Pass/Fail grading at the Pritzker School of Medicine is both a true pass/fail for years 1, 2, and 4. Third year—the clerkships—is a “graded” year with the grades of Honors, High Pass, Pass, Low Pass, and Fail.

 

[coffeesnob]

Because if 100% of the class meets the requirements to get honors, then 100% of the class will get honors. No "only 10% of the class" crap that some other schools do.

But there are still numerical grades, based on which the school can generate a ranking. That's why I still don't understand how P/F and uncurved grading help.

Ask Pritzker - that's directly quoted off their FAQ page, not me. Assuming you're not being sarcastic, if your class is not curved, then your assigned grade is not based on OTHER people's performance, and thus you're not competing against another person in your class. It is to your benefit to master the information as best as possible and not worry about where your grade falls in relations to others bc it doesn't affect the assigning of grades, which is a moot point at Pritzker bc the only grades are "P" or "F".

My school is not curved and it's P/F. But we are nonetheless neurotic and competitive because we worry about where our grades fall in relations to the class mean of each test. Also there is class ranking based on my numerical grades. The ranking is external, so we know where we stand.

 

[DermViser]

But there are still numerical grades, based on which the school can generate a ranking. That's why I still don't understand how P/F and uncurved grading help. My school is not curved and it's P/F. But we are nonetheless neurotic and competitive because we compare our performance based on the median score of each test. Also there is class ranking based on my numerical grades. The ranking is external, so we know where we stand.

Then your med school, by definition, is not actually classified as a "true" P/F school. Hence the 2 categories: P/F and true P/F. Pritzker's med school is "true" P/F in the first 2 years unlike yours, which keeps internal rankings.

If you look at their selection for AOA in that PDF, they even say:

• "Because Pritzker has a Pass/Fail grading system in the first two years, there is no Junior AΩA."
• "Students who are in the top academic quartile (based on third year designators only) of their class are eligible for election"

There used to be schools years ago, that would say they were "Pass/Fail" and what they meant was that they graded Honors/High Pass/Satisfactory Pass/Marginal Pass/Fail vs. A/B/C/D/F. The devil is in the details. It's good for students to find this out before matriculating so they know exactly how they are assessed and evaluated.

 

[ChEMD]

But there are still numerical grades, based on which the school can generate a ranking. That's why I still don't understand how P/F and uncurved grading help.



My school is not curved and it's P/F. But we are nonetheless neurotic and competitive because we worry about where our grades fall in relations to the class mean of each test. Also there is class ranking based on my numerical grades. The ranking is external, so we know where we stand.

That's unfortunate that your student body is like that. We are graded at my school based on numerical cutoffs, not a curve, and I don't feel any competition at all. I feel like the only person I'm competing with is myself, trying to make sure I stay above the cutoff for my desired grade. It really doesn't matter to me how many people get A's or Honors in any class, as long as I do my best to be one of them. I would never purposely not help someone just because I'm afraid they might be ahead of me in the class ranking as the end of my 4 years.

 

[tantacles]

I will be attending a P/F medical school for the first 2 years. Such a curriculum allows one more flexibility with their studies as they do not have to focus so much on the nitty gritty low yield details of their profs but can use their time more efficiently to study for what truly matters-- Step 1. I fully understand that I do not comprehend medical school yet, what details/things are more important than others, etc until I start school. But from those of you currently in school, what would you advise me to do to get the most use out of my time as I review?

I want to throw in my $0.02 here. The point of a pass/fail curriculum, in my eyes, is not so that you can spend every waking moment studying for Step 1. It's so that your grades aren't such a huge priority that they cast a dark shadow over your life, which is important.

As you may know, medical students have a [deserved] reputation for being neurotic and overtaxed stressballs, ready to crack from the pressure at any second. However, In an ideal world, medical students absolutely would not spend every minute studying, whether for Step 1 or for classes, and would take time to do things they enjoy and things that will add to their experience in a meaningful way. Studying for Step 1 is not one of those things; it does not add to your experience in any way during medical school with the exception of possibly giving you the joy of seeing a higher number on your score report.

So if you were to ask me how to take advantage of a P/F curriculum, it would be in this way: Study to learn and not to get a 90-100 on your exams. Try to immerse yourself in the material for a reasonable amount of time each day, reasonable being defined as an amount of time that doesn't make you want to pull your hair out, clench your teeth, or harm yourself, and then go do something else. Something fun, something interesting, something exciting, or just something that you wouldn't have done had you been studying for 14 hours rather than 10.

You can buckle down and be a crazy person when the time comes to take Step 1, but try to have a normal life as you go through this process; I don't go to a pass/fail school, but I absolutely treated my school as I would have a pass/fail school, and it resulted in a stress free M1/M2 year. Once February of M2 year came, I knuckled down, ready to apply what I'd learned in the past 1.5 years to Step 1. Feel free to call this out as being a humblebrag, but many of my classmates who objectively studied for more hours and definitely got better grades than I did are not doing as well on their NBME practice exams and shelf exams, so I've clearly done something right.

So what did I do when I wasn't studying like crazy? I started a hosting/mentoring program, worked at a distillery (extremely part-time), sang professionally (again, extremely part-time), helped open a new free clinic, and ran an LGBT organization. These are all experiences that contributed to me intellectually and personally, and while they may not all be useful for ERAS, I don't particularly care. I had fun and I got to use my time in medical school to explore a bunch of different opportunities and gained insight into how I might want to structure my future career. That is what you should be aiming for, and that, in my opinion, is how a pass/fail system should be utilized.

tl;dr: A pass/fail system allows you to have experiences you wouldn't have if you spent 12 hours each day studying. Don't take the opportunity for granted.

 

[Anastomoses]

It's an excellent book. Not fully comprehensive, but as an intro to immunology, it's fantastic summer reading. I always thought immuno was confusing until I gave that a read.

During your immunology block/class/whatever, I also suggest giving the immuno section in Lange: Review of Medical Microbiology and Immunology a read. It's around 90 pages, but it should make immunology a breeze.

What did you find confusing about immuno? Immuno seems detailed but straight-forward. I'm just curious as to what might trip someone up.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

What did you find confusing about immuno? Immuno seems detailed but straight-forward. I'm just curious as to what might trip someone up.

Never had a class on immuno before that, so all I knew about immunology was that neutrophils were first-responders, T cells killed other cells, and B cells pooped out little Ys. In summary, I was relatively ignorant about immuno. Sompayrac's book did a great job of being reader-friendly and having numerous examples to solidify basic concepts. I'd call it essential summer reading.

But yeah, after I took immuno, I thought it was relatively straight-forward, I mean, compared to something like renal physiology where there are 3-4 mechanisms to explain each phenomenon.

 

[Psai]

What did you find confusing about immuno? Immuno seems detailed but straight-forward. I'm just curious as to what might trip someone up.

People don't explain it right. Things have different names for the same thing and there's no overarching concept. It felt like my professors dove right into integrins, leukemia/lymphoma, cluster designations without taking the time to explain the whole lymphocyte trafficking to target the immune response, co-stimulation requirements and why it's important for polysaccharide capsule vaccinations, etc.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Are you a Pritzker alumni?

No, but I read I think 5 or 6 applications from pritzker students this year.

 

[bluefalcon32]

Never had a class on immuno before that, so all I knew about immunology was that neutrophils were first-responders, T cells killed other cells, and B cells pooped out little Ys. In summary, I was relatively ignorant about immuno. Sompayrac's book did a great job of being reader-friendly and having numerous examples to solidify basic concepts. I'd call it essential summer reading.

But yeah, after I took immuno, I thought it was relatively straight-forward, I mean, compared to something like renal physiology where there are 3-4 mechanisms to explain each phenomenon.

what else do you deem to be important "essential summer reading"?

 

[CherryRedDracul]

what else do you deem to be important "essential summer reading"?

Since you haven't started medical school yet, your essential summer reading should be whatever books you've been wanting to read. Use this summer to relax, knock some things off your bucket list ... y'know, have fun. Pre-studying before MS1 is totally not worth it.

I took immuno in second year so I used that summer vacation to read Sompayrac's book. Besides that, no other "essential summer reading" books come to mind. I was swamped with a research project so I didn't find much time reading anything else but books on osteoporosis and mechanics.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

what else do you deem to be important "essential summer reading"?

If you are foolish enough to spend your last true free time reading immunology, I hope someone you love has the sense to kick you in the balls.

For F**ks sake, do something, anything but that. Medical school is difficult, but not impossible. You can do well without taking ridiculous and futile measures. Just take advantage of the time you'll have available.

Please, please, please do not waste your last summer. As every other person who has done it will tell you, you will regret pre-studying. You don't have any idea what's actually important, and you probably won't keep a rigorous enough pace to accomplish anything. If you're doing medical school right, you'll pretty much be going full speed all the time. At an absolute max, the amount of studying you accomplish over a summer would be 1-2 blocks of material.

And the reality is, you will probably accomplish more like 2-3 weeks worth of medical school work at max., and that work will have no direction. So that makes it even less worth it.

You will not regret living that time up as best you can.

Source: I was as stupid as you're trying to be, and I realized my mistake later. Don't do it.

 

[DermViser]

what else do you deem to be important "essential summer reading"?

• First Aid for Step 1
• Rapid Review Biochemistry
• High Yield Gross Anatomy
• High Yield Neuroanatomy
• High Yield Histology
• High Yield Embryology
• Physiology by Costanzo (the bigger book, not BRS)
• Rapid Review Pathology by Goljan (or Pathoma)
• Katzung and Trevor Review of Pharmacology
• BRS Behavioral Science
• Lange Review of Microbiology and Immunolgy by Levinson (for Immuno part only)
• Clinical Micro Made Ridiculously Simple (for Micro)

 

[Psai]

nvm

 

[bluefalcon32]

Thank you for the wisdom @dadaddadaBATMAN. I will heed your advice.

As a side question, what is the difference b/w junior/senior AOA? Basically, some individuals can earn it in their junior year, while others can earn it later on. I may have gotten this confused/backwards but is there a difference between when you get it? I feel it mainly depends on one's school and their criteria for electing students. Thanks.

 

[Psai]

Junior AOA are the super legit kids

 

[DermViser]

If you are foolish enough to spend your last true free time reading immunology, I hope someone you love has the sense to kick you in the balls.

For F**ks sake, do something, anything but that. Medical school is difficult, but not impossible. You can do well without taking ridiculous and futile measures. Just take advantage of the time you'll have available.

Please, please, please do not waste your last summer. As every other person who has done it will tell you, you will regret pre-studying. You don't have any idea what's actually important, and you probably won't keep a rigorous enough pace to accomplish anything. If you're doing medical school right, you'll pretty much be going full speed all the time. At an absolute max, the amount of studying you accomplish over a summer would be 1-2 blocks of material.

And the reality is, you will probably accomplish more like 2-3 weeks worth of medical school work at max., and that work will have no direction. So that makes it even less worth it.

You will not regret living that time up as best you can.

Source: I was as stupid as you're trying to be, and I realized my mistake later. Don't do it.

At least he's being creative. Most Medical Student (accepted)'s who ask this question are asking about studying Gross Anatomy before starting. He changed it up a little by going with Immunology.

 

[DermViser]

Junior AOA are the super legit kids

Or the ones who got it based off of MS-1/MS-2 grades and Step 1 score only. Depends on how and when your school calculates it though.

 

[chronicidal]

Let me take this discussion in a different direction, away from talk about which details to learn, to talk about the methods of learning. It is true that a pass/fail curriculum means you are not beholden to the homemade slides and questions that your professors write, so you do not have to stress about the nitty gritty that separates the middle of the bell curve between 88 (high pass) from 90 (honors). That's nice.

The most important difference, in my opinion, between studying for class versus studying for boards and life is that the latter requires long-term retention. You can memorize slides in an intense few days before exams and do extremely well on your course exams. If you do not review that material, however, you will promptly forget it. For select high-yield material, you will have to relearn it again for your classes the next year, for boards, for shelf exams.

The most efficient way to develop long-term retention is through purposeful, spaced repetition of retrieval practice (e.g. Anki). Such a method requires an additional investment of time. You will be doing a little review of anatomy every day even though your anatomy class ended a month ago. You have limited time, so you must prioritize the material you learn. Only purposefully use spaced repetition for high yield material.

The freedom that a pass/fail system allows is that instead of learning 90%+ of a mix of important and unimportant details and promptly forgetting a mixed bag of a third of it by a few months out, you can spend just a little more time to learn the most important 70-80% and make sure you hold on to all of that for the long term. With spaced repetition systems, you control what you retain.

The question is, what do you choose to learn, and what do you choose to retain? You will develop an intuition for what is important over time. First Aid is an excellent starting point. It is a guide to content; it is not a primary learning source. Yes, you can and should "memorize First Aid", but reading First Aid should not and cannot be the fundamental basis of your learning. First Aid gives you structure and points out key facts. Watch a lecture or read a textbook or browse an article on UpToDate, all while cross-referencing First Aid to ensure you understand the basis for all the important facts. For those important facts, do flashcards and questions to solidify that understanding and move those memories from short-term to long-term storage.

This is the learning method of the future, but only a minority of current med students will appreciate the flexibility of P/F curricula through such a lens.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

This is the learning method of the future, but only a minority of current med students will appreciate the flexibility of P/F curricula through such a lens.

In general I agree with you, but I guess to me, true long term learning only happens by learning concepts. I like the idea of spaced repitition, but so long as it's only being applied toward bulk memorization I think you're still going to forget it over time.

There are absolutely things in medical school which require sheer memorization (not many ways to "understand" that hep c has a core protein which reduces p53 or causes heaptic steatosis, etc), but wherever possible knowing the how/why makes things infinitely easier to remember for me. You need to know the characters before you can understand the plot, but the plot is what stays with me.

 

[DermViser]

In general I agree with you, but I guess to me, true long term learning only happens by learning concepts. I like the idea of spaced repitition, but so long as it's only being applied toward bulk memorization I think you're still going to forget it over time.

There are absolutely things in medical school which require sheer memorization (not many ways to "understand" that hep c has a core protein which reduces p53 or causes heaptic steatosis, etc), but wherever possible knowing the how/why makes things infinitely easier to remember for me. You need to know the characters before you can understand the plot, but the plot is what stays with me.

Yes, the spaced repetition stuff is almost always rote memorization stuff.

 

[DermViser]

The adjectives in the MSPE only describe 3rd year performance. We are ranked for 3rd year.

Yes, and that rank is your overall rank.

 

[Pathisfun43S]

Forget class rank, all that matters is step 1 (and maybe step 2)
At the end of second year, I didn't even study for class exams, I only studied for step 1. I did average in my class rank but well above average on step 1. Would not have wanted it in reverse.

 

[JJMrK]

Forget class rank, all that matters is step 1 (and maybe step 2)
At the end of second year, I didn't even study for class exams, I only studied for step 1. I did average in my class rank but well above average on step 1. Would not have wanted it in reverse.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Everything matters. Period.

Step 1 gets you past a program's initial screens and can be helpful above a 250, but AOA and top 10/15% of class adjectives in the MSPE are important as well. Do everything well if you can.

 

[DermViser]

I disagree wholeheartedly. Everything matters. Period.

Step 1 gets you past a program's initial screens and can be helpful above a 250, but AOA and top 10/15% of class adjectives in the MSPE are important as well. Do everything well if you can.

THANK YOU. This I don't care about grades (long term medical school performance), the only thing that matters is Step 1 (a one day exam) is the worst advice given on SDN, regardless of specialty. I would say 24o+ (1 standard deviation above the mean) on USMLE Step 1 puts you in good shape entering any specialty.

 

[Pathisfun43S]

I disagree wholeheartedly. Everything matters. Period.

Step 1 gets you past a program's initial screens and can be helpful above a 250, but AOA and top 10/15% of class adjectives in the MSPE are important as well. Do everything well if you can.

I still don't agree with you. Though I will reduce the strength of my statement. Learning in classes is important for the sake of step1.
Class grades are still not that important.

Yeah step 1 is only one day but tests 2 years of knowledge and is an objective standard that measures everybody. Class rank....pfft. I didn't give a PENIS about that. Actually I got mostly Cs and Bs, with 1 A. But I got 250s on step1. Couldn't be happier!! I actually liked to brag about all the straight A students who I beat on step1 at my school!! Woot!!! ~~~