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Taking post-bacc classes or SMP for a PhD grad?
Started by vlada5
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Hopefully you're not expecting to apply this year. Your MCAT exam date is too late for this year, even if your other stats were strong.
Unfortunately even if you break 35, you're still missing the academic performance asset that med schools need to see to feel confident in you. Success and pubs in a PhD program can be assumed to get you past low GPA screens, but that low undergrad GPA is going to sink you when ~90% of the candidates have to get thrown overboard after interviews.
For better or worse, your undergrad academic performance predicts your academic success in med school, but your grad work does not. The ability to memorize large piles of simple content and then take multiple choice exams has to be demonstrated for med school. You may have demonstrated incredible focus and competence as a grad student, along with other great characteristics, but unfortunately that's not enough to get into med school, and more importantly, med schools have no way to evaluate your grad work. Adcoms aren't going to look at your pubs to see whether your journals are well-respected or not, unless you get incredibly lucky and one of your adcoms is a former biophysicist.
A very structured grueling SMP might help you. I say "might" because your undergrad GPAs are still front and center on your app, regardless of your MCAT or SMP score.
More undergrad would definitely help you, but you'd need to do 2+ full time years of additional undergrad to break through your cumulative GPAs. I doubt you're willing to do that after a PhD.
What I'd recommend is:
0. Get a clinical volunteering gig, 4 hrs/wk, and keep doing it forever. Show me you're willing to clean stretchers and do menial labor just for the privilege of being in a clinical environment.
1. Use this next academic year to build a respectable stockpile of fresh undergrad A's in hard classes like biochem, micro, neurosci etc. I'd say at least 4 classes, so you're doing 2 per semester, presumably on top of a job. If I'm your adcom I want you to show me that you're respectful of the med school admissions process by ponying up more undergrad effort to help me evaluate you against 40 billion squeaky-clean eager premeds who have never failed to succeed academically.
2. Use your September '14 MCAT score to get into a strong SMP that starts August '15.
3. Apply June '16 for best results. Or, be impatient and apply June '15 pending your SMP results to get in "somewhere".
Usually people hate this advice.
Best of luck to you.
Unfortunately even if you break 35, you're still missing the academic performance asset that med schools need to see to feel confident in you. Success and pubs in a PhD program can be assumed to get you past low GPA screens, but that low undergrad GPA is going to sink you when ~90% of the candidates have to get thrown overboard after interviews.
For better or worse, your undergrad academic performance predicts your academic success in med school, but your grad work does not. The ability to memorize large piles of simple content and then take multiple choice exams has to be demonstrated for med school. You may have demonstrated incredible focus and competence as a grad student, along with other great characteristics, but unfortunately that's not enough to get into med school, and more importantly, med schools have no way to evaluate your grad work. Adcoms aren't going to look at your pubs to see whether your journals are well-respected or not, unless you get incredibly lucky and one of your adcoms is a former biophysicist.
A very structured grueling SMP might help you. I say "might" because your undergrad GPAs are still front and center on your app, regardless of your MCAT or SMP score.
More undergrad would definitely help you, but you'd need to do 2+ full time years of additional undergrad to break through your cumulative GPAs. I doubt you're willing to do that after a PhD.
What I'd recommend is:
0. Get a clinical volunteering gig, 4 hrs/wk, and keep doing it forever. Show me you're willing to clean stretchers and do menial labor just for the privilege of being in a clinical environment.
1. Use this next academic year to build a respectable stockpile of fresh undergrad A's in hard classes like biochem, micro, neurosci etc. I'd say at least 4 classes, so you're doing 2 per semester, presumably on top of a job. If I'm your adcom I want you to show me that you're respectful of the med school admissions process by ponying up more undergrad effort to help me evaluate you against 40 billion squeaky-clean eager premeds who have never failed to succeed academically.
2. Use your September '14 MCAT score to get into a strong SMP that starts August '15.
3. Apply June '16 for best results. Or, be impatient and apply June '15 pending your SMP results to get in "somewhere".
Usually people hate this advice.
Best of luck to you.
DrMidlife, your advice is not hated here but much appreciated. Thank you.
0. Already done and continuing to do this.
1. Unfortunately I am funded by a government-sponsored fellowship that precludes my taking any classes until August 2015 if I want to keep my (low paying academic) job. I will have to pass on taking undergrad courses unless I choose to do that in place of my SMP as my advisor suggested. How much does this hurt me?
2. Yes, ma'am.
3. Will evaluate these options once I get my MCAT score.
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Are you saying your govt-funded job won't pay for you taking undergrad courses or that they disallow you from taking classes? I'd be surprised if you're not allowed to take some classes on the side. Such as at night.
If the issue is how to pay for some undergrad classes, that's a chump change problem if you consider the big picture. Look at Berkeley Extension et al.
I'm more or less assuming you're in California, and my advice is geared to getting you into a UC if possible. My advice doesn't change much if you're elsewhere.
We are strongly discouraged from doing any job or activity including classes outside of our work, since our fellowship is contingent upon us putting all of our efforts toward fulfilling our job duties. Identical rules exist for NIH training grants for graduate students. Paying for the classes is not an issue, but I do need to stay in my boss's good graces for my LOR.
Maybe we can get some of the nontrad PhD's to pipe up on this issue (paging Q to the white courtesy phone).
I personally would reflect on whether I could remain a strong performer at work if I took on a couple of classes, and whether I really think my LOR is at stake if I have a life outside work. Presumably other fellows are dating, planning weddings, doing yoga, playing soccer, and other things after work that people in their 20's do regardless of what their govt contract says. Yeah, if you take a couple classes after work then yeah, you give up other life balance stuff.
You'll need 3-4 faculty LORs. An LOR from your thesis adviser isn't going to overcome your uGPA, and an SMP isn't going to hide your uGPA.
I personally would reflect on whether I could remain a strong performer at work if I took on a couple of classes, and whether I really think my LOR is at stake if I have a life outside work. Presumably other fellows are dating, planning weddings, doing yoga, playing soccer, and other things after work that people in their 20's do regardless of what their govt contract says. Yeah, if you take a couple classes after work then yeah, you give up other life balance stuff.
You'll need 3-4 faculty LORs. An LOR from your thesis adviser isn't going to overcome your uGPA, and an SMP isn't going to hide your uGPA.
QofQuimica
Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
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15+ Year Member
I actually think you could be a good candidate for an SMP, assuming your MCAT score is decent, and assuming you do well in the SMP. But doing a FT do-it-yourself post bac is fine too. Regardless of which GPA remediation path you choose, it is absolutely essential that you have your act together and are prepared to do what is necessary to make all As (or as close to it as possible). So definitely work on improving your study habits if you haven't already. If you don't do very well in your SMP or post bac classes, you will end up digging yourself into an even deeper hole that may be impossible to climb out of.
On a side note, don't go counting on a "stellar" MCAT score until you actually have one in hand. The MCAT is a standardized exam with a scoring structure set up such that only about 5% of all test-takers per year will score 35+ on it. (Last year's data, if you're interested.) Your advisors should know better than to make an assumption that you or any other unproven candidate will be in the top 5% of all test-takers this year.
On a side note, don't go counting on a "stellar" MCAT score until you actually have one in hand. The MCAT is a standardized exam with a scoring structure set up such that only about 5% of all test-takers per year will score 35+ on it. (Last year's data, if you're interested.) Your advisors should know better than to make an assumption that you or any other unproven candidate will be in the top 5% of all test-takers this year.
