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68PGunner

Not surprising that all gunner DO schools like AZCOM, CCOM, TCOM, and RVU have the highest board averages while only having 2 hrs of OMM per week.
 
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jw3600

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Pass rate is meaningless. Failing boards has 0% to do with a medical school and is entirely on an individual. Average scores are where it's at.
 
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AlteredScale

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TCOM (thus confirmed as the /GOAT/) is sitting at 99.1% this year as per the article you neglected to open

Congrats. Be sure to share that stat to the program directors every day while on your audition rotations.


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JamesPotterMS-3

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Everything Dr. Dubin touches turns to gold. Every current student at TCOM, KCU, and RVU should say a prayer every night for this man.
 
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Drrrrrr. Celty

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Yah, KCU's score was a 587. So TCOM seems to have taken the lead this year.

But there's really no getting around the fact that the Dubin curriculum has been doing good for board scores. That or this year's comlex average was like a 550.
 
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Staphylococcus Aureus

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Meanwhile MSUCOM is in an antiquated fantasy land (c/o 2018 was quite below the national average). Board prep was not as big a deal since they had stronghold over their GME, and are late to catch up to the idea that some of their students will have to match outside the MSU bubble.
 
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Peach Newport

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No surprises there. TCOM has always been on the shortlist of strongest DO schools in the country.
 
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Drrrrrr. Celty

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DMU was 99.6% pass rate and mean of 591

Seems like it was a good year to sit for level 1

Either the average is going to be a 540 or the stronger schools are progressively just becoming farther apart from the schools with low entrance scores.
 

IsWhat

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I wonder what the uptick in scores is attributable to. My program is small and we had multiple 800's and 260+ step 1 scores this year.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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I wonder what the uptick in scores is attributable to. My program is small and we had multiple 800's and 260+ step 1 scores this year.

Reddit and SDN probably. Class of 2018 and 2019 are very strongly represented. So I imagine that it caused a lot more people to use better resources and plan better.
 
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BorntobeDO?

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Pass rate is meaningless. Failing boards has 0% to do with a medical school and is entirely on an individual. Average scores are where it's at.
Disagree, I would bet dollars to donuts there is a very statistically significant correlation between pass rate and increasing board scores. After all, if a school couldn't get all their students to 400, what about that curriculum says it is geared towards high performance? Even at the 92% national average that is 20+ students failing at many DO schools (15 if your 165, 20 if your 250, 28 or w/e for 330).
 
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BorntobeDO?

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It says a lot about a program when their students are hitting over 80th percentile as an average.
I just hope COMLEX doesn't screw with the scores again. Lots of places just use the numbers for a cut off, so making 50 percentile a 500 every year is a real disservice. I prefer the USMLE route where a 230 today is equal to the 230 of yesteryear, even if more people are hitting it. Its stupid to punish students because we perform better overall than our predecessors did.
 

shadowlightfox

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If you don't mind me asking, what were the averages of Touro, Rowan, PCOM, and NYIT COM? Or is TCOM Touro?
 

Roxas

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I wonder what the uptick in scores is attributable to. My program is small and we had multiple 800's and 260+ step 1 scores this year.
I think there is an arms race between prep companies and test writers. As soon as something like sketchy comes out and students started becoming wizzes at relevent micro, numbers start rising and we start seeing more wtf micro on comlex. It's a constant struggle for test companies to stratify us while prep companies become wise to what stuff to teach students. All the while scores keep going up. Same thing happened with the MCAT. It seems 20 years ago a 30 was a guaranteed MD acceptance. Now I know several at my DO school with 33+ MCATs where it just wasn't impressive enough for MD
 

Roxas

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Either the average is going to be a 540 or the stronger schools are progressively just becoming farther apart from the schools with low entrance scores.
Might be a bit of both. I'd be shocked if the average this year is below 535. Then the surge in med applicants in recent years has more and more highly qualified applicants ending up at DO schools.
 

Rekt

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DMU was 99.6% pass rate and mean of 591

Seems like it was a good year to sit for level 1

Not really. Just makes COMLEX even more meaningless when applying ACGME when the average varies that much.
 
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Drrrrrr. Celty

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I just hope COMLEX doesn't screw with the scores again. Lots of places just use the numbers for a cut off, so making 50 percentile a 500 every year is a real disservice. I prefer the USMLE route where a 230 today is equal to the 230 of yesteryear, even if more people are hitting it. Its stupid to punish students because we perform better overall than our predecessors did.

I think them moving the minimal passing score to a 420 for example similar to how the USMLE shifted from a 188 to 193 over a decade may be appropriate. But I also think it could end up causing a lot of extra failures too.
 
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AnatomyGrey12

Either the average is going to be a 540 or the stronger schools are progressively just becoming farther apart from the schools with low entrance scores.

Probably a little of both. More MD caliber students are ending up at the stronger DO schools than ever before. Even our school apparently had a fairly decent COMLEX average this year according to the grapevine, like 550+. Not bad for a state school where lots of people come in aiming for FM or peds from day 1
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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Not really. Just makes COMLEX even more meaningless when applying ACGME when the average varies that much.

My hope is that it causes more schools to adopt changes to facilitate improvement in boards performances.
 
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BorntobeDO?

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I think them moving the minimal passing score to a 420 for example similar to how the USMLE shifted from a 188 to 193 over a decade may be appropriate. But I also think it could end up causing a lot of extra failures too.
Agree, they also need to come out with a test that better predicts the performance of students tho. This whole if you get a 500+ on the COMSAE you probably won't fail business is malarkey.
 
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ThreeCheers

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This really is great news but remember that these statistics do not account for students that had to push back their exams, which tend to be weaker test takers overall. The stats will probably be a bit lower at the end of the year, but I still expect the average to rise from last year. The pressure has been on for the recent classes with the incoming merger.

Also my school has the highest board scores of them all, and my dean can beat up your dean.
 
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jw3600

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Disagree, I would bet dollars to donuts there is a very statistically significant correlation between pass rate and increasing board scores. After all, if a school couldn't get all their students to 400, what about that curriculum says it is geared towards high performance? Even at the 92% national average that is 20+ students failing at many DO schools (15 if your 165, 20 if your 250, 28 or w/e for 330).
You have 2 friends. They are each describing a party where there's a bunch of single girls. One guy says his party of 100 girls has an average rating of 7.3 with a 4% untirely undatable population. Your other friend says his equally populated party ONLY has a 2% undatable population but the average there is only 6.8. Which party are you going to?
 

BorntobeDO?

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You have 2 friends. They are each describing a party where there's a bunch of single girls. One guy says his party of 100 girls has an average rating of 7.3 with a 4% untirely undatable population. Your other friend says his equally populated party ONLY has a 2% undatable population but the average there is only 6.8. Which party are you going to?
Thats not how this is working. Why would the party with more undatable girls have a higher average rating? The same guy invited the 4% undatable as the 96 datable ones, thus proving that he was less effective at wooing good looking women. If you can pull an average of 7.3 why would you have 4 undatables in the first place? The guy who is pulling an average of 6.8 is obviously more likely to have undatables because his average is lower thus demonstrating his inability to pull higher quality girls consistently. Common man think with your head (the other one...well actually, maybe either in this example).
 

jw3600

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Thats not how this is working. Why would the party with more undatable girls have a higher average rating? The same guy invited the 4% undatable aas the 96 datable ones, thus proving that he was less effective at wooing good looking women. If you can pull an average of 7.3 why would you have 4 undatables in the first place? The guy who is pulling an average of 6.8 is obviously more likely to have undatables because his average is lower. Common man think with your head (the other one...well actually, maybe either in this example).
...boy can you read?
 

Eagles6389

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This really is great news but remember that these statistics do not account for students that had to push back their exams, which tend to be weaker test takers overall. The stats will probably be a bit lower at the end of the year, but I still expect the average to rise. The pressure has been on for the recent classes with the incoming merger.

Also my school has the highest board scores of them all, and my dean can beat up your dean.

What was the average for 2016? Around 520?

I would bet the average will rise to around 530 this year.
 

BorntobeDO?

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...boy can you read?
Your scenario is a logical fallacy. I will try explaining a different way: You get invited to those same two partys, but all you know is that one party has 4 undatables, and the other has 2. Which one do you think has the higher average attractiveness?

That is how you look at pass rate, you don't know the average score, but you do know how many 'undateables' there are at the party. KCU may have only 1, while LUCOM has 10. Which one of those parties has the higher attractiveness based on the information you actually have? And if one party consistently produces more undatable girls, why in the world would you expect it to have a higher average (as the average must include these undatable girls)?
 
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ThreeCheers

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What was the average for 2016? Around 520?

I would bet the average will rise to around 530 this year.

I think I read that last year's mean was 515ish, which was a bit higher than the class of 2017's mean. I expect the upward trend to continue over the next couple of years.
 

hallowmann

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Personally I think pass rate says more about the school than anything else. Schools should be preparing people to pass. How good they do above that is based on the hours, sweat and tears they individually put in. If you're getting through the first 2 yrs of school and not passing the COMLEX, then something is most likely wrong with the curriculum, because it should have prepared you to do at least that.

Also, let's not pretend that pass rates and board averages aren't correlated. I mean a pass is literally based on a score cutoff, right? You have to score above a certain amount, and if a population has a better pass rate most likely they will probably, but not necessarily, have higher board scores, because less people are pulling down the average. Again, its not always the case, but it's certainly correlated.

In any case, none of this matters. As a DO applicant, you can't predict how well you're going to do on boards, but you know passing boards will get you a residency spot somewhere. If you're school can't practically guarantee that happening, then it's doing you a disservice.
 
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jw3600

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Your scenario is a logical fallacy. I will try explaining a different way: You get invited to those same two partys, but all you know is that one party has 4 undatables, and the other has 2. Which one do you think has the higher average attractiveness?

That is how you look at pass rate, you don't know the average score, but you do know how many 'undateables' there are at the party. KCU may have only 1, while LUCOM has 10. Which one of those parties has the higher attractiveness based on the information you actually have? And if one party consistently produces more undatable girls, why in the world would you expect it to have a higher average (as the average must include these undatable girls)?
Your first, second, and third iterations of this post are all pretty weak. Think whatever you want.
 

lolwhatcomlex

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Comlex scores have been odd this year. Among my friends and I, there is now zero correlation between usmle and comlex.
oZsk9cB.png

HiS2NG9
 
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AlteredScale

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Comlex scores have been odd this year. Among my friends and I, there is now zero correlation between usmle and comlex.
oZsk9cB.png

HiS2NG9

Zero correlation? So far what I've seen is that this scoring 240-250+ also score 700+ while those scoring 220+ get around 600+. There's def variation but I've yet to see a 207 score 690 on comlex.


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Not surprising that all gunner DO schools like AZCOM, CCOM, TCOM, and RVU have the highest board averages while only having 2 hrs of OMM per week.

They spend more time studying something useful and their board scores reflect that. Shocking!
 
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lolwhatcomlex

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Zero correlation? So far what I've seen is that this scoring 240-250+ also score 700+ while those scoring 220+ get around 600+. There's def variation but I've yet to see a 207 score 690 on comlex.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
just among my group of friends who took both and shared their scores, it's
600+ 215
600+ 220
600+ 245
550 240
550 225


Our nbme's were for the most part within plus/minus 5 of our real usmle.

The comlex is not a robust measure whatsoever.
 
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Beautiful Sunset

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just among my group of friends who took both and shared their scores, it's
600+ 215
600+ 220
600+ 245
550 240
550 225


Our nbme's were for the most part within plus/minus 5 of our real usmle.

The comlex is not a robust measure whatsoever.

Not robust? How could you say that? The NBOME is hard at work developing innovative tests and they are the worldwide assessment leader. The NBOME president told our class the NBME modeled the USMLEs after COMLEX.
 

AlteredScale

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just among my group of friends who took both and shared their scores, it's
600+ 215
600+ 220
600+ 245
550 240
550 225


Our nbme's were for the most part within plus/minus 5 of our real usmle.

The comlex is not a robust measure whatsoever.

Idk if you've seen this but there's still some correlation and trend between the two. You don't see 450s scoring 250. If you're good at standardized tests and did well in M1/M2 you have a chance to do well on both.

Data collection for 2017 update to reddit USMLE/COMLEX/NBME score correlations • r/medicalschool
 
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