TCOM average COMLEX approaches 600 (594)

[Beautiful Sunset]

Idk if you've seen this but there's still some correlation and trend between the two. You don't see 450s scoring 250. If you're good at standardized tests and did well in M1/M2 you have a chance to do well on both.




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No doubt there is a correlation, but how strong? Some students don't study much for OMM and thus their COMLEX is artificially low while their USMLE is high. OMM is roughly 20% of COMLEX.

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[AlteredScale]

No doubt there is a correlation, but how strong? Some students don't study much for OMM and thus their COMLEX is artificially low while their USMLE is high. OMM is roughly 20% of COMLEX.

Don't think that correlation strength really matters as long as r r is between 0 and 1 meaning if you do well on Step you can probably/most likely can do well on on comlex since it's the same basic sciences. However yes it's true that NBOME just doesn't have the same man power to analyze their exams as well as that of NBME.


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[Beautiful Sunset]

Don't think that correlation strength really matters as long as r r is between 0 and 1 meaning if you do well on Step you can probably/most likely can do well on on comlex since it's the same basic sciences. However yes it's true that NBOME just doesn't have the same man power to analyze their exams as well as that of NBME.


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I agree with you entirely.

 

[68PGunner]

Is it common to have more than that? We only had 2.5 hrs and it felt like too much

Yes, I have 4 hrs of OMM every week. Totally a buzz kill. We have two didactic exams per semester along with a written finals exam. It's a requirement to score 70+% on that written OMM exam. Fortunately for me, OMM comes pretty natural for me so I don't have to spend a lot of time on this time sink. However, I can't say the same for some of my classmates. Their board scores will most likely suffer in the end.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Yes, I have 4 hrs of OMM every week. Totally a buzz kill. We have two didactic exams per semester along with a written finals exam. It's a requirement to score 70+% on that written OMM exam. Fortunately for me, OMM comes pretty natural for me so I don't have to spend a lot of time on this time sink. However, I can't say the same for some of my classmates. Their board scores will most likely suffer in the end.

Tbh, I think OS on the COMLEX is rarely something that requires a refined understanding of it. Sacral, cranial, viscerosomatics, scoliosis, and occasionally counterstain make up the bulk of OS on COMLEX. For the first two it takes a little bit of practice and watching maybe 3 videos on youtube. VS isn't difficult to get down. Scoliosis is more difficult, but the green book does it well. And counterstain is the harder stuff that you pray isn't on yours.

Overall, I studied the green book and I got above average.

 

[68PGunner]

Tbh, I think OS on the COMLEX is rarely something that requires a refined understanding of it. Sacral, cranial, viscerosomatics, scoliosis, and occasionally counterstain make up the bulk of OS on COMLEX. For the first two it takes a little bit of practice and watching maybe 3 videos on youtube. VS isn't difficult to get down. Scoliosis is more difficult, but the green book does it well. And counterstain is the harder stuff that you pray isn't on yours.

Overall, I studied the green book and I got above average.

I bought that green book and am fully prepared just to pass this garbage exam. My nightmare would be to beast on the Step 1 and then fail the Comlex. Congrats on that Step 1 btw.

 

[Roxas]

I bought that green book and am fully prepared just to pass this garbage exam. My nightmare would be to beast on the Step 1 and then fail the Comlex. Congrats on that Step 1 btw.

Odds of that happening are pretty low

 

[Mad Jack]

Everything Dr. Dubin touches turns to gold. Every current student at TCOM, KCU, and RVU should say a prayer every night for this man.

Should probably specify your Dubins, because one implies schools, the other implies EKG books and children...

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I bought that green book and am fully prepared just to pass this garbage exam. My nightmare would be to beast on the Step 1 and then fail the Comlex. Congrats on that Step 1 btw.

The converse is far more likely to happen. Step 1 is by far the most treacherous wall I've ever scaled in my life. COMLEX by comparison was manageable.

 

[lolwhatcomlex]

Idk if you've seen this but there's still some correlation and trend between the two. You don't see 450s scoring 250. If you're good at standardized tests and did well in M1/M2 you have a chance to do well on both.

Data collection for 2017 update to reddit USMLE/COMLEX/NBME score correlations • r/medicalschool

I plotted out the data points between 500 and 650 where the majority of DO students fall. RR is 0.22. A 600 comlex can fall anywhere from a 210 to 245 on the usmle...

I didnt need to even graph this out. I knew comlex is a poor test when their own reports state that SEM is nearly equal to 1 SD.

 

[AlteredScale]

I plotted out the data points between 500 and 650 where the majority of DO students fall. RR is 0.22. A 600 comlex can fall anywhere from a 210 to 245 on the usmle...

I didnt need to even graph this out. I knew comlex is a poor test when their own reports state that SEM is nearly equal to 1 SD.

I understand the correlation isn't that strong but as I've reiterated before, R is positive, and there's a positive correlation albeit weak correlation. I've never denied that it was a weak correlation.




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[Rekt]

Comlex scores have been odd this year. Among my friends and I, there is now zero correlation between usmle and comlex.

Calling 100% bull**** on this chart. Where did it come from? There's no way the national COMLEX average has been kept around 500-520 for the past several years to all the sudden jump to 570s, also a 98% pass rate? I really doubt that.

 

[lolwhatcomlex]

Calling 100% bull**** on this chart. Where did it come from? There's zero way the national COMLEX average has been kept around 500-520 for the past several years to all the sudden jump to 580s, also a 98% pass rate? I really doubt that.

Straight from faculty at my school. And given that now we have TCOM, KCU, DMU, and my school all posting class average of >580, the data for national average seems solid to me.

You can ask your advisor to pull the chart up to see where you stand in terms of residency prospects.

 

[Rekt]

Straight from faculty at my school. And given that now we have TCOM, KCU, DMU, and my school all posting class average of >580, the data for national average seems solid to me.

You can ask your advisor to pull the chart up to see where you stand in terms of residency prospects.

I suppose it could be possible then. It's largely irrelevant for me as I took step one and am applying ACGME and still scored quite a bit higher than this "new average". All this does is muddy the waters further for programs that are only somewhat familiar with COMLEX scoring to have this huge jump in averages. This will just increase the importance of Step 1 even further.

 

[AlteredScale]

Straight from faculty at my school. And given that now we have TCOM, KCU, DMU, and my school all posting class average of >580, the data for national average seems solid to me.

You can ask your advisor to pull the chart up to see where you stand in terms of residency prospects.

It's probably important to remember that that national average probably doesn't have all DO schools compiled into its calculation as well. So that average may drop.


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[lolwhatcomlex]

It's probably important to remember that that national average probably doesn't have all DO schools compiled into its calculation as well. So that average may drop.


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That data is straight from NBOME. It includes every single graded exam up to august.

 

[AlteredScale]

That data is straight from NBOME. It includes every single graded exam up to august.

Link from NBOME??


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[ortnakas]

CBT Score Conversion

According to this, in the last academic year, a 517 was a 50th percentile.

Yes, I know mean and median aren't the same thing, but a jump from a 517 median up to a 580 average in one year seems odd. Something is fishy.

Edited because I forgot a word

 

[BorntobeDO?]

CBT Score Conversion

According to this, in the last academic year, a 517 was a 50th percentile.

Yes, I know mean and median aren't the same thing, but a jump from a 517 median up to a 580 in one year seems odd. Something is fishy.

They must be using the same stats my school does when they talk about their 'pass rate' to us during the deans hour. Somehow the one they are forced to published is 4 percent lower than the 'real one' they give us during the talk.

 

[NontradCA]

Comlex needs to go away

 

[hallowmann]

That data is straight from NBOME. It includes every single graded exam up to august.

Yeah, but honestly its hard to tell if its real, because it looks like a random edited table to all of us.

Also, there are COMs that have their students take the exams late, and there are COMs that make the lower performing students wait longer before taking it, so this may very well change in the next few months when everyone takes it.

 

[Eagles6389]

Straight from faculty at my school. And given that now we have TCOM, KCU, DMU, and my school all posting class average of >580, the data for national average seems solid to me.

You can ask your advisor to pull the chart up to see where you stand in terms of residency prospects.

My school's average was in the 520-530s. Let's not be naive enough to think that after a decade where the COMLEX average has been 500-520ish, that it is suddenly going to jump 50-60 points to a 580 all within one year, because one person on SDN posts some chart.

 

[Goro]

Calling 100% bull**** on this chart. Where did it come from? There's no way the national COMLEX average has been kept around 500-520 for the past several years to all the sudden jump to 570s, also a 98% pass rate? I really doubt that.

As I mentioned above, national avg's are up this year.
I'm waiting for the NBOME explanation.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

As I mentioned above, national avg's are up this year.
I'm waiting for the NBOME explanation.

up sure, 580 no. Maybe 530-535.

 

[Goro]

up sure, 580 no. Maybe 530-535.

I will post the NBOME national avg's my Dean sent me, later today.

 

[IsWhat]

Honestly, who cares if COMLEX scores are up or down. It's functionally a pass/fail test now.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I will post the NBOME national avg's my Dean sent me, later today.

kk

 

[deleted244469]

Yes, I have 4 hrs of OMM every week. Totally a buzz kill. We have two didactic exams per semester along with a written finals exam. It's a requirement to score 70+% on that written OMM exam. Fortunately for me, OMM comes pretty natural for me so I don't have to spend a lot of time on this time sink. However, I can't say the same for some of my classmates. Their board scores will most likely suffer in the end.

Same here. MUST have a 70% average on both the Exams and the Lab Skills portion to pass.

Grrrrr.

 

[DoReMiFaSo]

I will post the NBOME national avg's my Dean sent me, later today.

Anything you can share Goro?

 

[Goro]

Anything you can share Goro?

I thought I had the file on my home computer, but did not. So be patient and I will post it later today

 

[Goro]

Comlex scores have been odd this year. Among my friends and I, there is now zero correlation between usmle and comlex.

Hi all, This chart is identical to the one I have received from our Dean. At the time, some 6164 students had taken the exam. The national pass rate was 97.66% I can't share our results without outing myself, but we've been happy. In my own discipline, my students are well above the national mean.
At this point about 95% of my kids have taken the exam. That means about some 4-6 people are left. I'm not too worried about them.

 

[CCmetal94]

Probably a little of both. More MD caliber students are ending up at the stronger DO schools than ever before. Even our school apparently had a fairly decent COMLEX average this year according to the grapevine, like 550+. Not bad for a state school where lots of people come in aiming for FM or peds from day 1

This is something I've noticed. I'm at one of the more "established" DO schools with class averages a decent amount above the average for DO schools nationally. I only applied DO but a crap ton of people in my class interviewed and were waitlisted at MD schools.

 

[jw3600]

Hi all, This chart is identical to the one I have received from our Dean. At the time, some 6164 students had taken the exam. The national pass rate was 97.66% I can't share our results without outing myself, but we've been happy. In my own discipline, my students are well above the national mean.
At this point about 95% of my kids have taken the exam. That means about some 4-6 people are left. I'm not too worried about them.

Hi all, This chart is identical to the one I have received from our Dean. At the time, some 6164 students had taken the exam. The national pass rate was 97.66% I can't share our results without outing myself, but we've been happy. In my own discipline, my students are well above the national mean.
At this point about 95% of my kids have taken the exam. That means about some 4-6 people are left. I'm not too worried about them.

I'm confused. Why are there scores associated with each discipline? You don't say I got a 219 in psychiatry and a 250 in microbiology?

 

[Goro]

I'm confused. Why are there scores associated with each discipline? You don't say I got a 219 in psychiatry and a 250 in microbiology?

There are eight difference disciplines in COMLEX that are assessed are scored: Anatomy (includes Neuroscience), Physiology, OPP, Pathology, Pharmacology, Behavioral Medicine, Med Micro and Biochem. You are scored on each, as well as a total score. Obviously, the total score is what counts.

Offhand, I don't know if students see the score breakdowns.

USMLE is divided into organ systems (Respiratory, Cardiology, etc).

 

[zero0]

Who cares? How'd they do on USMLE?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

There are eight difference disciplines in COMLEX that are assessed are scored: Anatomy (includes Neuroscience), Physiology, OPP, Pathology, Pharmacology, Behavioral Medicine, Med Micro and Biochem. You are scored on each, as well as a total score. Obviously, the total score is what counts.

Offhand, I don't know if students see the score breakdowns.

USMLE is divided into organ systems (Respiratory, Cardiology, etc).

We get a very uninformative bar. So we know we're either above average or not much at all.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Hi all, This chart is identical to the one I have received from our Dean. At the time, some 6164 students had taken the exam. The national pass rate was 97.66% I can't share our results without outing myself, but we've been happy. In my own discipline, my students are well above the national mean.
At this point about 95% of my kids have taken the exam. That means about some 4-6 people are left. I'm not too worried about them.

Here's the thing, the pass rate wasn't much different than last year and it was a 520-30 something. A national mean that's randomly 40-50 points higher than it usually is and the same pass rate makes absolutely no sense.

 

[SurgDoc95]

Here's the thing, the pass rate wasn't much different than last year and it was a 520-30 something. A national mean that's randomly 40-50 points higher than it usually is and the same pass rate makes absolutely no sense.

Inflating the percentiles of students so they'll look better for acgme programs? (Assuming they only take comlex)

 

[Goro]

Who cares? How'd they do on USMLE?

Haven't seen that data yet.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Hi all, This chart is identical to the one I have received from our Dean. At the time, some 6164 students had taken the exam. The national pass rate was 97.66% I can't share our results without outing myself, but we've been happy. In my own discipline, my students are well above the national mean.
At this point about 95% of my kids have taken the exam. That means about some 4-6 people are left. I'm not too worried about them.

This is overall pass rate, not first time correct?

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Now I get it why people were getting 600 and then 'only' 230's on USMLE. The percentile still correlates. People weren't getting 80 percentiles on COMLEX at 600, they were getting 60 percentilish. Amazing that Comlex performance is improving while USMLE stays more consistent. Maybe it was the good pictures?

 

[Goro]

This is overall pass rate, not first time correct?

Overall pass rate. Every test cycle included second time takers

 

[jw3600]

Now I get it why people were getting 600 and then 'only' 230's on USMLE. The percentile still correlates. People weren't getting 80 percentiles on COMLEX at 600, they were getting 60 percentilish. Amazing that Comlex performance is improving while USMLE stays more consistent. Maybe it was the good pictures?

Comparing percentiles aren't as useful between comlex and usmle because the populations taking the tests are so different.

 

[Eagles6389]

Hard to believe that the national average jumped 40-50 points all in one year. If the NBOME decided to inflate the scores this year, then that really screws over the GTAs/students who took COMLEX last year with a national mean of 520-530, but are now in the class of 2019 for w/e reason. Imagine being a GTA who scored a 570 COMLEX last year only to find out that his/her score is now only "average" thanks to this inflation...

It also just makes taking USMLE that much more important.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Hard to believe that the national average jumped 40-50 points all in one year. If the NBOME decided to inflate the scores this year, then that really screws over the GTAs/students who took COMLEX last year with a national mean of 520-530, but are now in the class of 2019 for w/e reason. Imagine being a GTA who scored a 570 COMLEX last year only to find out that his/her score is now only "average" thanks to this inflation...

It also just makes taking USMLE that much more important.

Admittedly I agree. I think it really is going to hurt students without a USMLE score.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Comparing percentiles aren't as useful between comlex and usmle because the populations taking the tests are so different.

My post was not as much about comparing percentile as explaining phenomena this year, I had multiple people in my program complaining that they did 'better' on COMLEX rather than USMLE, saying they got a 600 or 80 percentile but only say a 235 on USMLE (more like 60th percentile). They were basing the idea that they got 80th percentile on the COMLEX using the average for last years COMLEX. They really didn't do way better on COMLEX, the mean shifted up. Which of course, means that just using a COMLEX score as a cutoff is a bad idea since it is so variable and thus further decreases the value of the test to residency directors who are already confused by it. Heck, I am a DO student who cares what the score means, and I still don't understand everything about it.

Actually this leads me to question: Is NBOME still 'readjusting' means down every 3 years or have they switched to a USMLE like model where a 230 this year is the same as a 230 was 15 years ago etc.

 

[Rekt]

If this is true, this is quite confusing to me why a statement wouldn't be made from NBOME. This could affect how/where/what specialties and programs that people apply to with COMLEX only. Most people aren't even going to know where they stand if the average is truly that different. Last year, 50th percentile was a 516, where it's kind of been for awhile so most people know these numbers of 500-520 as average-ish. If someone this year scored a 580-590, they might be pretty happy about it, thinking it's a more competitive score because they would have theoretically been approaching 75-80th percentile ranges, but now that score would be nearly useless.

I know not every student has finished taking the exam, but if @Goro confirmed the chart as accurate, the remaining (likely small amount of students) will largely not affect the average.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

If this is true, this is quite confusing to me why a statement wouldn't be made from NBOME. This could affect how/where/what specialties and programs that people apply to with COMLEX only. Most people aren't even going to know where they stand if the average is truly that different. Last year, 50th percentile was a 516, where it's kind of been for awhile so most people know these numbers of 500-520 as average-ish. If someone this year scored a 580-590, they might be pretty happy about it, thinking it's a more competitive score because they would have theoretically been approaching 75-80th percentile ranges, but now that score would be nearly useless.

I know not every student has finished taking the exam, but if @Goro confirmed the chart as accurate, the remaining (likely small amount of students) will largely not affect the average.

That's how the USMLE does things though, a 230 still means a 230 even if the average went up.

 

[Rekt]

That's how the USMLE does things though, a 230 still means a 230 even if the average went up.

Huh? Around 230 is what NBME tries to keep average (my score report said 228), but this change by the NBOME is the opposite of what NBME is doing.

 

[Eagles6389]

Huh? Around 230 is what NBME tries to keep average (my score report said 228), but this change by the NBOME is the opposite of what NBME is doing.

Exactly. You would think that NBOME would include on their score report the average of all test takers from a certain time frame, like the NBME does with the USMLE score report. But no, all that the COMLEX score report says is "an approximate mean of 520 in recent administrations of the exam"without specifying the mean score for the last month or test takers.