TEMPLE vs NYCPM

[moneymoneymoney]

disclaimer: i know this has been spoken about before but the threads i found were dated from 2009 I'm sure some thigns have changed since then

I happen to like the Temple campus and facilities a lot more ( who wouldnt comapred to nycpm) And from what i spoke about with students in both schools, Temple has an easier schedule and students tend to get higher grades one xams (from the many grade postings i was looking at in front of the classrooms.) Board rates are pretty much the same and so are residency matching rates. NYCPM will be substantially cheaper for me since I can live at home. Temple offered me a solid scholarship too but can only garuntee it for the first year unless I stay in the top 10%. NYCPM just wants a 3.2 GPA and I can keep the yearly scholarship
Anyway will picking one school over the other drastically change my future as a podiatrists? I obviously plan on working hard no matter where I am. Would someone look at the top NYCPM student as being slightly better or worse than the top Temple student? Or do residency directors know that each school gives a solid education?

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[SuperFeisty]

The top students will be dominant everywhere. Doesn't matter what institution. That being said, I doubt that there's a difference between the tops of each class. It may just come down to who ate the better breakfast.

 

[347932]

Anyway will picking one school over the other drastically change my future as a podiatrists? I obviously plan on working hard no matter where I am. Would someone look at the top NYCPM student as being slightly better or worse than the top Temple student? Or do residency directors know that each school gives a solid education?

It won't matter one bit.

If a residency director discriminates between schools like that, I'd question the program as a whole tbh. A top student is a top student. Period.

 

[flyhi]

Go where it's substantially cheaper, imo. Great podiatrists come out of all of the schools.

 

[Ferocity]

NYCPM offers FREE plastic forks and moist towelettes in their cafeteria while Temple offers none of this.

This should make your choice easy.

 

[arez10]

And from what i spoke about with students in both schools, Temple has an easier schedule and students tend to get higher grades one xams

I have no idea if this is true, and frankly, I don't care. But this makes me kind of sad that you're factoring this into your decision. Higher grades does not mean you will be a better podiatrist. I probably sound like a grandmother right now and I'm only a third year, but you will have your free time no matter what school you go to (well maybe not Western...) so don't look for an easier schedule. Look for the better education.

 

[bobdolerson]

I would assume that any reputable residency program would assume that motivation of students attending the different schools is more or less the same, and that GPA would play a less important role than a class rank.

I think your performance compared to other students is more important than exam scores (ie, it doesn't matter if you have a 3.8 GPA if you're in the bottom 5 students of your class), and your performance during externships would be the best indicator of performance during residency.

 

[PADPM]

The school shouldn't matter if you are a good student. The cream rises to the top. Pick the school where you believe you will be most comfortable and fit in. Of course in many instances finances play a large role in that choice. If finances weren't an issue, I personally would choose Temple, though in my opinion the quality of Temple's clinical staff has deteriorated. Yes, there are still some excellent docs, but there are others I could not take seriously in an educational role.

As previously mentioned, the top of the class may often have an advantage when it comes to residency programs, but top of the class does not always equate with more successful than your peers.

 

[studentdpm31]

If finances weren't an issue, I personally would choose Temple, though in my opinion the quality of Temple's clinical staff has deteriorated. Yes, there are still some excellent docs, but there are others I could not take seriously in an educational role.

Would you mind elaborating on this? I personally was offered a scholarship to both NYCPM and Temple and chose NYCPM because I had heard/read/found out that NYCPM's clinicals are stellar.

We know that grades don't determine the success of the podiatric physician. Clinical experience will probably help the student doctor more, but you just said that Temple's clinical staff has deteriorated, so why wouldn't you choose the school with a better clinical staff/experience?

After your explanation of Temple, I'm confused as to why you're endorsing it. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[SuperFeisty]

The cream rises to the top.

Not if it's... heavy cream!

 

[PADPM]

Would you mind elaborating on this? I personally was offered a scholarship to both NYCPM and Temple and chose NYCPM because I had heard/read/found out that NYCPM's clinicals are stellar.

We know that grades don't determine the success of the podiatric physician. Clinical experience will probably help the student doctor more, but you just said that Temple's clinical staff has deteriorated, so why wouldn't you choose the school with a better clinical staff/experience?

After your explanation of Temple, I'm confused as to why you're endorsing it. Thank you for the clarification.

Having the experience of working with residents for many years, I've always been the most impressed by students from Temple and Chicago (I've lost track of whatever name it is now!) Yes, this IS a generalization, but it's based on my experience. And that experience made me have the opinion that students from NYCPM were not on par with the other schools I've mentioned. This isn't meant to be a controversial comment, it's simply the students and residents I met in my circle.

I know of many of the doctors who taught and now teach at Temple. Over the past few years some excellent clinical docs have moved on, and some of those hired do not impress me. But when adding all the factors together, Temple may still have the edge in my eyes.

Since Scholl/Chicago moved out of the city, I don't know much about the school anymore.

 

[347932]

I agree with PADPM.

Temple is still an excellent place to get a solid foundation of knowledge. There is no question about it (I'm a little biased as I graduated from there).

After Temple University took over from PCPM in 1999 (or 1998?), there was a big shift in the attendings and professors and I think the school really took a hit in that regard. There has been some stability since then, but it also seems that there is a constant in and out flux of talent. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but can lead to a certain sentiment of instability surrounding the attendings, staff and professors (wow, I hope that came out the way I intended).

That being said, as I've said before, the school clinic is NOT where you're going to learn most of what you will learn clinically. You will get MUCH more out of a well designed externship experience. If you are lucky you will have good upperclassmen in the school clinic to show you the ropes, and ignite that spark.

 

[frankcfromny]

Just a quick note.

The largest ortho group in my area which is incredibly successful, employs about 20 orthos and 2 pods. I really wanted to shadow these pods and found out they both graduated from Temple.

This doesn't really mean anything, but I'm just throwing it out there.

 

[bunion123]

Just a quick note.

The largest ortho group in my area which is incredibly successful, employs about 20 orthos and 2 pods. I really wanted to shadow these pods and found out they both graduated from Temple.

This doesn't really mean anything, but I'm just throwing it out there.

where is "your area" if it happens to be right next door to nycpm that is saying something. if its in philly not saying much

 

[347932]

where is "your area" if it happens to be right next door to nycpm that is saying something. if its in philly not saying much

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Why does that matter?

I've also heard of Large Ortho groups hiring Pods to act as gatekeepers for their surgical volume. The Pods don't actually do the surgery, but turf any cases they think needs it to the Ortho in the practice. Nice, huh?

 

[josebiwasabi]

like the others have said, a top student is a top student. choose whichever school you felt more comfortable at.

 

[Achdus]

I understand the posted question is in regards to the actual schools; however, how much of a factor on admissions is the scope of practice in their respective states?From what I've seen, there are better chances at being matched with a local residency which likely leads to practicing in the state of the school you attended (obviously does not always happen).
So, in that case, wouldn't the limited scope of practice in certain states affect the decision to attend the schools in those states?

 

[jonwill]

I agree with PADPM.

After Temple University took over from PCPM in 1999 (or 1998?), there was a big shift in the attendings and professors and I think the school really took a hit in that regard. There has been some stability since then, but it also seems that there is a constant in and out flux of talent. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but can lead to a certain sentiment of instability surrounding the attendings, staff and professors (wow, I hope that came out the way I intended).

Yea, I think that is correct. I went into DMU in the early 2000's and knew a fair amount of people at Temple. In talking with a lot of them, you could tell that the program was coming through some struggles. I think it was a rough transition. The ones I knew all still did fine though.

 

[frankcfromny]

where is "your area" if it happens to be right next door to nycpm that is saying something. if its in philly not saying much

Upstate NY.

 

[frankcfromny]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Why does that matter?

I've also heard of Large Ortho groups hiring Pods to act as gatekeepers for their surgical volume. The Pods don't actually do the surgery, but turf any cases they think needs it to the Ortho in the practice. Nice, huh?

That's interesting.

It could be legit too, because when I talked to him about it he told me that there are 3 people in the group that specialize with the foot. 2 pods and an ortho.

As an aside, their website lists their physician providers and non-physician providers. The pods are listed under PHYSICIAN PROVIDERS. I hope someone reads this when the great debate of whether or not pods are physicians inevitably ensues

 

[jonod1107]

I have no idea if this is true, and frankly, I don't care. But this makes me kind of sad that you're factoring this into your decision. Higher grades does not mean you will be a better podiatrist. I probably sound like a grandmother right now and I'm only a third year, but you will have your free time no matter what school you go to (well maybe not Western...) so don't look for an easier schedule. Look for the better education.

I sort have to disagree here. Class ranking does matter when it comes to getting your foot into the door of a awesome externship and eventually to a great residency program. I believe that class rank is easier to get at Temple vs NYCPM because Temple has a bell curve whereas NYCPM does not. They don't care if 80% of the class get lower than a C. Correct me if I am wrong but I heard this from a NYCPM student who said that his/her anatomy class only had 3 people in the 90% and the majority of the students were below 80% and a good number even failed.

I can use myself as an example. I went to a crazy hard undergrad where a lot of classes were not graded on a curve. Some of my best friends in high school went to state schools or smaller schools where it was a bit easier. (For example, my school is so small and so research oriented that there is no seperate Organic Chem track for Chem majors and premed, we all took the Chem Major track so the pre-meds are learning about advanced research technique that is more geared to students who want to get a masters or phd in chemistry. )

Now a lot of my friends who went to state schools are already in med school, dental school, podiatry school, etc because even though my 3.2 gpa is comparable to their 3.6, but in the computer cutoff point, they don't take into account the difficulty of your school. So I was already weeded out before any actual human looked at my application.

This is the same with residency programs. If you don't pass the certain bench mark, then you won't even get your application looked at by a human being.

 

[jonod1107]

I understand the posted question is in regards to the actual schools; however, how much of a factor on admissions is the scope of practice in their respective states?From what I've seen, there are better chances at being matched with a local residency which likely leads to practicing in the state of the school you attended (obviously does not always happen).
So, in that case, wouldn't the limited scope of practice in certain states affect the decision to attend the schools in those states?

No. It will NOT have a factor in your training.

This has been discussed before on here. So when you are in school, you are not held under the scope of practice law. For example, NY doesn't have rear foot and ankle as part of the scope but NY students can learn and assist in those surgeries. Additionally, there are residency programs in NY that will also teach and allow you to do rear foot and ankle as a resident since you are still in training.

Just think about it logically, if you weren't allowed to then residencies in states with smaller scope will be very different compared to residencies in states with bigger scopes. Plus, after residency, people move to different states for work, and they could very well move to a state with scope that included RF and ankle.

 

[Cascade11]

No. It will NOT have a factor in your training.

This has been discussed before on here. So when you are in school, you are not held under the scope of practice law. For example, NY doesn't have rear foot and ankle as part of the scope but NY students can learn and assist in those surgeries. Additionally, there are residency programs in NY that will also teach and allow you to do rear foot and ankle as a resident since you are still in training.

Just think about it logically, if you weren't allowed to then residencies in states with smaller scope will be very different compared to residencies in states with bigger scopes. Plus, after residency, people move to different states for work, and they could very well move to a state with scope that included RF and ankle.

New York has ankle in scope of practice.

 

[Username96705]

I also heard NY has one of the smallest scope of practice out of any state which is a big reason why I didn't chose to attend.

I also didn't like how the dorms were over a 15 minute walk away and NY's building made me feel like a rat navigating a maze. Everything was clumped together and rooms randomly opened up into more rooms and I thought the tour guide was leading us into a far corner of the building to kill us.

But NY defiantly seems a lot more tech-savy than Temple. The next entering class will all get free iPads and most classes will be computer based. While Temple still uses snail mail and poorly photo copied information booklets and their website was designed by someone living in 1998.

But both use class capture and both are in "dangerous" cities and both have a very good clinical but Temple sees 50k patients a year whereas NY sees 20k.

 

[PatchAdamsFan]

I also heard NY has one of the smallest scope of practice out of any state which is a big reason why I didn't chose to attend.

I also didn't like how the dorms were over a 15 minute walk away and NY's building made me feel like a rat navigating a maze. Everything was clumped together and rooms randomly opened up into more rooms and I thought the tour guide was leading us into a far corner of the building to kill us.

But NY defiantly seems a lot more tech-savy than Temple. The next entering class will all get free iPads and most classes will be computer based. While Temple still uses snail mail and poorly photo copied information booklets and their website was designed by someone living in 1998.

But both use class capture and both are in "dangerous" cities and both have a very good clinical but Temple sees 50k patients a year whereas NY sees 20k.

NY pods will have full ankle scope by 2014 (signed in 2012), so that is a non-issue when we all graduate, plus the training for rearfoot and ankle has been implemented in NYCPM and most NY residencies regardless.

No offense, but you must be a slow walker, because it took me a little over 10 minutes to walk, 15 door to door. which is NOTHING. Plus you can take the subway for a faster route.

Your description of the inner campus is what you would expect in a school located smack in the middle of a huge city. I'm sorry if that did not appeal to you, I loved the campus personally, the compactness of it.

Finally, the Foot Center in NY is very, very busy, and sees closer to 25,000 patients a year, JUST in that center.

"Students have access to thousands of patients from the surrounding neighborhood alone and treat between 800-1200 patients during their third year." From the handbook. Does that seem like a high enough number for one year?

 

[josebiwasabi]

I also heard NY has one of the smallest scope of practice out of any state which is a big reason why I didn't chose to attend.

I also didn't like how the dorms were over a 15 minute walk away and NY's building made me feel like a rat navigating a maze. Everything was clumped together and rooms randomly opened up into more rooms and I thought the tour guide was leading us into a far corner of the building to kill us.

But NY defiantly seems a lot more tech-savy than Temple. The next entering class will all get free iPads and most classes will be computer based. While Temple still uses snail mail and poorly photo copied information booklets and their website was designed by someone living in 1998.

But both use class capture and both are in "dangerous" cities and both have a very good clinical but Temple sees 50k patients a year whereas NY sees 20k.

Everyone has reasons why a particular school suits them better than others but those are some really weak deciding factors imo.

1. Scope of practice has zero bearing on your training, especially as a pod student. Plus this argument is outdated, as NY scope of practice will be widened in 2014.
2. This morning I went from my bedroom to my seat in the lecture hall in 14 minutes. Sure maybe not as good as having dorms directly on campus but it's only a 15 minute commute. I view walking a mile in the morning as part of my daily exercise routine.
3. I agree that the campus was confusing for me at first, but that goes away after the first week.
4. Don't know about the status of temple's use of technology but you're pretty spot on with NYCPM. The intranet and echo (capture) system is well organized.
5. You will see more than enough patients during 3rd year as you rotate through FCNY, Harlem, Metro, Lincoln, and Mt. Sinai.

 

[heybrother]

A podiatry attending posted on here awhile back suggesting that the NYCPM ankle-education-experience would be limited because students can only see the cases that their attendings bring to them and their attendings can't bring ankle cases.

A NYCPM student responded with an explanation of how the above is not applicable and where NYCPM students receive their experience. Might not hurt to throw something together about your curriculum showing where this experience will be supplied. Its going to keep coming up. I don't think many people look at it, but in a similar vein it might be nice for someone to draft a write-up explaining NY's future scope. The legislation is substantially larger and more specific than most state scopes (which are sometimes as straightforward as "foot and ankle" without any other qualifiers).

 

[Username96705]

I wasn't saying NY doesn't get enough on site clinical, far from it Temple and NY have the most volume of patients out of any other school. It's good to have the on-site clinical because then you don't have to do nine externships like DMU.

NY did the best out of any other school in the match this year; 100%, Temple didn't do too poorly given the circumstances at ~90% matched as of right now.

Both are good programs you'll do well at either. If you can commute from home you'll probably be better off saving around $8,000 a year and doing that. The choice isn't a make or break career decision and I think schools are right when they say it's more about "the fit," so it's up to you.

But I think we are missing the most important point of all:
NY only allows you to purchase beverages of 16 ounces or less while Phily allows you to purchase beverages of any size!

 

[PatchAdamsFan]

But I think we are missing the most important point of all:
NY only allows you to purchase beverages of 16 ounces or less while Phily allows you to purchase beverages of any size!

Nice try, but a judge blocked the proposed law earlier this year, on the grounds that it is ridiculous. Bloomberg is trying to appeal though, we'll see.

 

[90watt]

Well if the 16oz soda ban gets passed, there won't be any diabetics for NYCPM students to treat. Then all you NY kids are gonna start crying and wish you had went to some other school instead.

(Sorry if my lame sense of humor offended anyone)

 

[iVTECdailyy]

I sort have to disagree here. Class ranking does matter when it comes to getting your foot into the door of a awesome externship and eventually to a great residency program. I believe that class rank is easier to get at Temple vs NYCPM because Temple has a bell curve whereas NYCPM does not. They don't care if 80% of the class get lower than a C. Correct me if I am wrong but I heard this from a NYCPM student who said that his/her anatomy class only had 3 people in the 90% and the majority of the students were below 80% and a good number even failed.

I can use myself as an example. I went to a crazy hard undergrad where a lot of classes were not graded on a curve. Some of my best friends in high school went to state schools or smaller schools where it was a bit easier. (For example, my school is so small and so research oriented that there is no seperate Organic Chem track for Chem majors and premed, we all took the Chem Major track so the pre-meds are learning about advanced research technique that is more geared to students who want to get a masters or phd in chemistry. )

Now a lot of my friends who went to state schools are already in med school, dental school, podiatry school, etc because even though my 3.2 gpa is comparable to their 3.6, but in the computer cutoff point, they don't take into account the difficulty of your school. So I was already weeded out before any actual human looked at my application.

This is the same with residency programs. If you don't pass the certain bench mark, then you won't even get your application looked at by a human being.

False. No curves at Temple.

Also, thanks for bumping a year old thread. Original poster has already made their decision.