Tension Problems

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amusedtodeath24

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Hello all,

I have having a difficult time understanding how to solve tension problems.

For example:

A 50 kg woman dangles a 50 kg mass from the end of a rope. If she stands on a frictionless surface and hangs the mass over a cliff with a pulley, the tension in the rope will be .. ?

The answer given is 250 N, but I have no clue as to how to calculate this. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you...

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Hello all,

I have having a difficult time understanding how to solve tension problems.

For example:

A 50 kg woman dangles a 50 kg mass from the end of a rope. If she stands on a frictionless surface and hangs the mass over a cliff with a pulley, the tension in the rope will be .. ?

The answer given is 250 N, but I have no clue as to how to calculate this. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you...


For any physics problem,especially tension, it really helps to draw a free-body diagram.

Now, the only forces acting in this system are tension in the rope, and the weight of the object. Since the woman in accelerating towards the end of the cliff, we have:
---> mg = T + ma (since mg is greater than T, you add ma on the T side. We know mg is greater because the woman is accelerating in that direction).

Now, since the only force acting on the woman is the tension in the rope, we have:
-----> T = ma
Using this relationship and plugging it into the previous equation, we have:

----------> mg = ma + ma OR mg = 2ma
----------> canceling m's gives us g = 2a OR a = 5 m/s^2.

Since we know that T = ma, plug and chug: T = 50 x 5 = 250 N

Hope that helps👍
 
How did you know that the woman was accelerating? Just because the problem said she was on a frictionless surface?
 
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I know there is a more conceptual/easier way to look at this but I just can't remember exactly how (pulleys aren't my favorite) If anyone can shed some light on this please do..thanks
 
The first thing to do in solving problems would be to draw a force diagram; they are generally quite helpful in solving pulley problems ( and for that matter, most force-related problems).

In the following example:
A 50 kg woman dangles a 50 kg mass from the end of a rope. If she stands on a frictionless surface and hangs the mass over a cliff with a pulley, the tension in the rope will be .. ?

Start by drawing your force diagram with a "person" holding a rope which is looped over a pulley and attached to a mass. Now, with regard to tension, an important fact to know is that the tension force always faces the direction away from the object to which it is attached. In this case, a tension force would thus be directed upwards away from the 50 kg mass; and additionally, another tension force (equal in both magnitude, and direction...) would point upwards from the woman holding the other end of the rope. Finally, the weight of the mass on the end of the rope must be included: recall: W=mg; thus, the downward force on the mass is (50)(10) = 500 N.

OK, now, to set up the necessary equation to relate the forces. Since Net force = (m)(a), and in this case, the object is not moving, the net force must be equal to zero, since acceleration is zero.

Finally, select your positive and negative directions: Up= positive, down = negative. Both tension forces are directed upwards, while the weight of the object is directed downwards. Thus:
F=ma=0
2T-mg=0
2T=mg
T=mg/2
T=(50)(10) /2
T=250 N

Other types of pulley problems which ask you to determine the acceleration of the block or something of the sort do not actually require you to even consider the tension forces. For example, consider a single pulley with a rope looped around it. To one end, a mass of 10 kg is attached, and to the other, a mass of 5 kg is attached. What will be the acceleration of the blocks? The way that I saw such problems solvent in TPR, they set up multiple equations which are then put together into one. However, this method is somewhat tedious, and further, unneccesary. Instead, consider the following:

All you care about is the NET FORCE driving the system. In such a case, the tension in the rope would be considered INTERNAL FORCES of the system, and need not be considered to determine the acceleration. All that needs to be considered is the net driving force on the system, which in this case, results from the weights of the 2 masses.

Draw your force diagram so that the 10 kg mass is on the right side of the pulley, and the 5 kg mass on the left. Select clockwise to be positive, counterclockwise to be negative. Now, F= ma needs to be rewritten as:
F (driving) = mass (system) X acceleration (system)
Since the weight of the 10 kg mass would drive the system in the clockwise direction, W (10kg mass) is positive, while W (5kg mass) would be negative. Thus:
W (10kg mass) -W (5kg mass) = M (system) x acceleration
(10kg)(10m/s2)- (5)(10) = (5+10) X acceleration

NOtice that the mass of the entire system is simply the sum of the 2 masses....
Finally:
100-50 =15a
50/15=a= 3.3 m/s2.

Notice that this is far easier than setting up two equations relationg to the tension forces, then making the 2 equations equal to each other, and finally solving for acceleration. This sort of analysis, considering the net driving force on the system is useful in pulley problems such as the above 2, and in more "complicated" situations where one of the blocks attached to the rope on the pulley is placed on an inclined plane. IN that case, simply consider the weight in the "horizontal" direction as the force pulling the system in that direction.

Hope this helps!
 
The first thing to do in solving problems would be to draw a force diagram; they are generally quite helpful in solving pulley problems ( and for that matter, most force-related problems).

In the following example:
A 50 kg woman dangles a 50 kg mass from the end of a rope. If she stands on a frictionless surface and hangs the mass over a cliff with a pulley, the tension in the rope will be .. ?

Start by drawing your force diagram with a "person" holding a rope which is looped over a pulley and attached to a mass. Now, with regard to tension, an important fact to know is that the tension force always faces the direction away from the object to which it is attached. In this case, a tension force would thus be directed upwards away from the 50 kg mass; and additionally, another tension force (equal in both magnitude, and direction...) would point upwards from the woman holding the other end of the rope. Finally, the weight of the mass on the end of the rope must be included: recall: W=mg; thus, the downward force on the mass is (50)(10) = 500 N.

OK, now, to set up the necessary equation to relate the forces. Since Net force = (m)(a), and in this case, the object is not moving, the net force must be equal to zero, since acceleration is zero.

Finally, select your positive and negative directions: Up= positive, down = negative. Both tension forces are directed upwards, while the weight of the object is directed downwards. Thus:
F=ma=0
2T-mg=0
2T=mg
T=mg/2
T=(50)(10) /2
T=250 N

Other types of pulley problems which ask you to determine the acceleration of the block or something of the sort do not actually require you to even consider the tension forces. For example, consider a single pulley with a rope looped around it. To one end, a mass of 10 kg is attached, and to the other, a mass of 5 kg is attached. What will be the acceleration of the blocks? The way that I saw such problems solvent in TPR, they set up multiple equations which are then put together into one. However, this method is somewhat tedious, and further, unneccesary. Instead, consider the following:

All you care about is the NET FORCE driving the system. In such a case, the tension in the rope would be considered INTERNAL FORCES of the system, and need not be considered to determine the acceleration. All that needs to be considered is the net driving force on the system, which in this case, results from the weights of the 2 masses.

Draw your force diagram so that the 10 kg mass is on the right side of the pulley, and the 5 kg mass on the left. Select clockwise to be positive, counterclockwise to be negative. Now, F= ma needs to be rewritten as:
F (driving) = mass (system) X acceleration (system)
Since the weight of the 10 kg mass would drive the system in the clockwise direction, W (10kg mass) is positive, while W (5kg mass) would be negative. Thus:
W (10kg mass) -W (5kg mass) = M (system) x acceleration
(10kg)(10m/s2)- (5)(10) = (5+10) X acceleration

NOtice that the mass of the entire system is simply the sum of the 2 masses....
Finally:
100-50 =15a
50/15=a= 3.3 m/s2.

Notice that this is far easier than setting up two equations relationg to the tension forces, then making the 2 equations equal to each other, and finally solving for acceleration. This sort of analysis, considering the net driving force on the system is useful in pulley problems such as the above 2, and in more "complicated" situations where one of the blocks attached to the rope on the pulley is placed on an inclined plane. IN that case, simply consider the weight in the "horizontal" direction as the force pulling the system in that direction.

Hope this helps!

If the tension is always facing away from the object which it is attached, how come tension is not pointing away from the woman?
 
It is pointing away from the woman... it is pointing UP, just like the tension holding the block... so then it is T + T -mg=0 or 2T=mg
 
It is pointing away from the woman... it is pointing UP, just like the tension holding the block... so then it is T + T -mg=0 or 2T=mg

Isn't she standing on a cliff w/ the mass hanging off a pulley of the edge? Wouldn't tension on the rope the woman is holding horizontal pointing towards the woman? Sorry I am confused...
 
Sorry to hijack this thread but I also have a tension problem similar to the one above. Maybe this can be a thread of tension problems. I tried applying the methods from the previous posts but just can't seem to get the correct answer.

Q: A 0.4kg mass is hanging from a table connected by a string to a 0.1kg mass on a frictionless table, with a pulley at the end of the table. What is the approximate tension in the string? What is the acceleration of the 0.1kg mass?

A: Tension is 0.8N. I don't know the acceleration.
 
Alright I think I got it:

Since there is acceleration there is a force which is simply due to the second mass (.4kg)

So .4Kg(10 m/s^2) = F
4 N = (m1+m2)a
4 N = .5 kg (a)
Therefore a = 8 m/s^2.

The tension is what accelerates that first mass so T = .1kg * 8 m/s^2, .8 N
 
Isn't she standing on a cliff w/ the mass hanging off a pulley of the edge? Wouldn't tension on the rope the woman is holding horizontal pointing towards the woman? Sorry I am confused...

his post was correct, but it shouldn't have said "up" away from the woman

the tension is horizontal pulling away from the woman.

but i believe (i might be wrong here however) that since the pulley is in equilibrium, the tensions are equal. t1=t2. that's why the term comes up as "2T"

heres a free body diagram to help clarify

http://rei.deported.net/forces.gif
 
Alright I think I got it:

Since there is acceleration there is a force which is simply due to the second mass (.4kg)

So .4Kg(10 m/s^2) = F
4 N = (m1+m2)a
4 N = .5 kg (a)
Therefore a = 8 m/s^2.

The tension is what accelerates that first mass so T = .1kg * 8 m/s^2, .8 N

Genius! Thanks for the help. I completely get it now. I was trying to set the 4N as only acting on the .1kg mass and was coming out with the wrong answer. Thanks again.
 
his post was correct, but it shouldn't have said "up" away from the woman

the tension is horizontal pulling away from the woman.

but i believe (i might be wrong here however) that since the pulley is in equilibrium, the tensions are equal. t1=t2. that's why the term comes up as "2T"

heres a free body diagram to help clarify

http://rei.deported.net/forces.gif

Wow thanks. That .gif is awesome. Even the unproportioned female. Just awesome.

However, one last question...so if the tension is pointing away from the woman, should I think of that rather as toward the pulley? I guess that's what the person said earlier about it pointing up? I always have the problem thinking that I put all the forces pointing in one direction on the same side of the equation and I think that that tension points along that end of the rope (in the same direction as mg) but I guess this is wrong?
 
Wow thanks. That .gif is awesome. Even the unproportioned female. Just awesome.

However, one last question...so if the tension is pointing away from the woman, should I think of that rather as toward the pulley? I guess that's what the person said earlier about it pointing up? I always have the problem thinking that I put all the forces pointing in one direction on the same side of the equation and I think that that tension points along that end of the rope (in the same direction as mg) but I guess this is wrong?

again, im a student, not an expert just like you (so i might be wrong on this:luck:) but i think that the way you stated it with "to the pulley" would probably be more appropriate and easier to get.

if 2 tensions are going to the same place, sum them up, and if they are going to opposite directions, subtract them. with pulleys though, i believe they are always added.

i don't think i've seen any pulley problem (have you?) where the tensions arent added up. pulleys have something attached to both ends so the tension always points to the pulley.

and yea, all the forces going in the same direction get added up (so they are on the same side of the equation), you just had the direction of the tension reversed. (doesn't go with mg, goes against it 🙂 )
 
Hello all,

I have having a difficult time understanding how to solve tension problems.

For example:

A 50 kg woman dangles a 50 kg mass from the end of a rope. If she stands on a frictionless surface and hangs the mass over a cliff with a pulley, the tension in the rope will be .. ?

The answer given is 250 N, but I have no clue as to how to calculate this. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you...
hi everyone

can anyone please help me understand this conceptually?
Force down on the mass of course is 500 N
therefore total force up must equal 500 N since it is not moving
where is the 250 N coming from? if the force up is 500 N isnt that also the same as the tension for this scenario?
thanks
 
Look at the box individually.

Lets call the box on the table "1" and the one attached to the rope "2".

For 1, only force that is accelerating it is the tension. Thus, F= T = m1a.
For 2, mg - T = m2a.

Note that both boxes have the same acceleration.

Then, substitute m1a for T in the second equation.
You get mg - m1a = m2a.
Then, mg = m1a + m2a.
0.4 x 10 = (0.4 + 0.1)a
4 = 0.5a
a = 8

T = m1a = 0.1 x 8 = 0.8

Same goes for the OP's question.
The question never said they are NOT moving.
In fact, since there's no frictional force, it MUST be moving.
 
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