Texas Tech Offers 3 year MD degree

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Texas Tech offers quicker degrees to family docs
AP

LUBBOCK, Texas – Texas Tech University's medical school will soon become the first in the U.S. to offer aspiring family doctors a three-year degree at half the cost of a traditional four-year path, university officials said.

The program, which begins this fall, is aimed at addressing a national shortage of family physicians. One study estimates the country will need about 39,000 more family doctors by 2020.

Texas Tech announced the plan Tuesday, the same day President Barack Obama signed health care reform legislation expected to add millions of people to doctors' patient lists by 2014, when the law's major provisions take effect.

The three years of medical school will cost about $75,000. After getting their degrees, doctors will spend three years in residency with a family practice. The school also will provide a $13,000 scholarship to each student going into family practice to cover first year tuition and fees.

The four-year program at Texas Tech currently costs students about $150,000.

Dr. Steven Berk, dean of Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center School of Medicine, said about a dozen of the 140 students who enroll each year typically go into family practice. He hopes the three-year program will double the number.

"We don't have any doubts that this is going to work," he said.

The program, called the Family Medicine Accelerated Track, was approved last month by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education, which accredits medical schools. The committee is jointly sponsored by the Association of American Medical Colleges and the Council on Medical Education of the American Medical Association.

"It's just that time is reorganized and the focus is on family medicine," Barbara Barzansky, a member of the AMA, said of the program.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100324/ap_on_re_us/us_texas_tech_family_docs

Comments:
The Obama-liberals are already telling Family Physician folks that NPs and PAs can practice medicine at equivalent abilities as they do. We have seen our position/status/pay slowly disintigrating over the last 10 years whereas many PAs, NPs, CRNAs are earning as much or more than we do.

What happens when we "PROVE" to the public and the rest of the medical world that FPs don't really need the same schooling as the rest of Doctors. What happens to their status, pay and position in the medical world??? Will they become just glorified NPs!!!! Then they have a right to pay them nothing, and less then our breathren! And the AAFP is condoning this!
IDIOTS

http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/...nt-student-focus/20100408texas-tech-fmat.html

What next? Since ophthalmologists only really treat the area around the eye maybe they can just do 3 years of med school too? Since psychiatrists really don't do surgery how about 3 years of med school for them? etc. etc.

 

[7starmantis]

Comments:
The Obama-liberals are already telling Family Physician folks that NPs and PAs can practice medicine at equivalent abilities as they do. We have seen our position/status/pay slowly disintigrating over the last 10 years whereas many PAs, NPs, CRNAs are earning as much or more than we do.

What happens when we "PROVE" to the public and the rest of the medical world that FPs don't really need the same schooling as the rest of Doctors. What happens to their status, pay and position in the medical world??? Will they become just glorified NPs!!!! Then they have a right to pay them nothing, and less then our breathren! And the AAFP is condoning this!
IDIOTS

I see your point and I'm not sure how I feel about the program itself, but aren't you contradicting yourself by the bold statements? If NP's are making more than "us" then why would they pay them nothing if they are "glorified NP's"?

 

[Suenya]

Isn't there a DO program (or another MD program) already doing this 3 year for family medicine track?

 

[phonyreal98]

Duke is able to fit all the basic sciences, clinical rotations, et cetera into three years.

 

[surftheiop]

Duke is able to fit all the basic sciences, clinical rotations, et cetera into three years.

This is a good point

 

[dd128]

I see your point and I'm not sure how I feel about the program itself, but aren't you contradicting yourself by the bold statements? If NP's are making more than "us" then why would they pay them nothing if they are "glorified NP's"?

That's not really the point.

What's important is that in a world where so much is being discovered and most medical school curriculums are incorporating so much information into four years that people are wondering when med school is going to transition into five years, and these *****s want to create a three year program? FP's are suppose to have a larger base than your specialist, and if anything it should be reversed and those going into cardiology take your three years then go right into your specialty, as all you really need to understand is the heart after all (this is sarcasm, I don't really believe this either).

 

[7starmantis]

That's not really the point.

I agree, thats why I said "I see your point, but". Just pointing out a problem with the idea of money there.

As to the program, I think you have a great point about specialists doing 3 years and then their specialty residency. I'm not sure how I feel about the 3 year program for FP. There is certainly a need for them and quickly I'm just not sure this is the best way to go.

 

[surftheiop]

It seems like if you talk to almost any resident/attending they feel like large portions of med school were wasted time, but now b/c of pressure from NP's you all are suddenly claiming that every moment is precious?

 

[MegaProjectile]

I definitely support this move and think more MD schools should start offering 3-year programs for those interested in family medicine.Primary care is facing competition from DNPs and I think this move is in the right direction to stop the bleeding.

 

[ChiDO]

isn't there a do program (or another md program) already doing this 3 year for family medicine track?

lecom

 

[lalaland123]

I definitely support this move and think more MD schools should start offering 3-year programs for those interested in family medicine.Primary care is facing competition from DNPs and I think this move is in the right direction to stop the bleeding.

like.

from what i see, this way physicians remain physicians and DNP's, DNP's.

 

[Moridin]

I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion, but....

Based on personal experience and talking to people (non-"liberals") older than I am, it seems that the traditional family practice MD was someone that diagnosed simple illnesses, performed simple procedures (e.g., shots, stitches, etc.) or recognized when something wasn't a simple illness and referred the patient to a specialist. Honestly, DNP's are more than qualified for this role. Do I think they should go around introducing themselves as "doctor"? No, not unless they have a large name-tag on their lab coat with "DNP" in bold after their names.

But why aren't DNPs qualified? Most have a BSN, then have at least around five years of nursing experience before qualifying for either an MSN or DNP. DNP training takes a few years. It's not like these people are idiots just because they aren't as qualified as an MD. But in a time where there are is shortage of PCPs by the tens of thousands every year, it seems like a waste of resources to NOT employ DNPs in this role. Let the doctors use their valuable education for something more skilled.

This is not to say that NO doctors should become PCPs in FM or IM. Certainly, there is a role for them there (some patients require more knowledgeable PC, some might want a second opinion on something they think is more serious but their DNP doesn't, etc.).

Solutions: Make DNP training/certification standards more strict and broad, create programs like TX Tech's and Duke's, offer financial incentives for MD's to enter PC (loan forgiveness, scholarships, cheaper/fast MD tracks), and encourage a cooperative framework between FM/IM docs and DNPs.

 

[wolfiemd]

Why are DNPs more qualified for the role of simple diagnostics and procedures? Count the training hours and then come back and talk.

he didn't say MORE qualified, he said more THAN qualified..learn to read before you make snide remarks.

 

[surftheiop]

Let's try not to derail this thread to a DNP debate

 

[DrBowtie]

he didn't say MORE qualified, he said more THAN qualified..learn to read before you make snide remarks.

Redacted. Tough to read on my iPhone.

 

[Musclemass]

Twelve students a year will be produced from one uninfluential school. It's not a trend, not a threat, not a big mistake. What it is, is a very small experiment that is arguably worth trying.

Unless you want NPs and PAs taking over the primary care role, something needs to be done. If not this, something else.

 

[Dr McSexy]

What next? Since ophthalmologists only really treat the area around the eye maybe they can just do 3 years of med school too? Since psychiatrists really don't do surgery how about 3 years of med school for them? etc. etc.

Don't really see the big deal. These people are obviously dedicating themselves to one specialty and you learn most of what you are going to do (after the foundations) through your residency, which isn't being shortened.

What exactly is the 3-year program cutting out of the 4-year program. Whole rotations? Shortening the hours you spend in certain rotations?

 

[FutureDoc4]

Duke is able to fit all the basic sciences, clinical rotations, et cetera into three years.

It's ignorant statements like this that are going to get our profession into trouble.

First, the basic sciences are packed in 1.5 years but there are NO loss in core rotation time for these students.

Second, students at Duke have to complete a THESIS, which requires independent thinking and exploring clinical/basic science at an indepth level (probably more so, than any class could teach you).

The program at LECOM and and the new program at Texas aren't doing that (if you bothered to look at their curriculum). All they are doing is cutting core rotations down in size (e.g. 8 weeks of surgery to 4 weeks of surgery). I believe this is really detrimental to an understanding of surgery and post-op or even long term care of patients (if you are going to make the argument that FP don't need at least 8 weeks of surgery, I think you are delusional).

In terms of DNP, everyone says "they already have experience they don't need schooling" to do the job of the FP. Here is the analogy I would create for you:

Paralegal of 25 years, believes they can do the job of a lawyer (say, patent law), they have drafted documents, they have worked in depth in all aspects of the practice. Should they be allowed to practice patent law independently? NO!!!!! Because, all they lack the theoretical knowledge and its that knowledge that allows lawyers to tackle unique and difficult situations. Here is what people need to get through their head:

EXPERIENCE CANNOT REPLACE THEORETICAL KNOWLEDGE

It's only when you combine theoretical and practical knowledge of science that you should be allowed to practice unsupervised MEDICINE. (aka, nursing is NOT medicine).

 

[Dr Oops]

It's ignorant statements like this that are going to get our profession into trouble.

First, the basic sciences are packed in 1.5 years but there are NO loss in core rotation time for these students.

Second, students at Duke have to complete a THESIS, which requires independent thinking and exploring clinical/basic science at an indepth level (probably more so, than any class could teach you).

The program at LECOM and and the new program at Texas aren't doing that (if you bothered to look at their curriculum). All they are doing is cutting core rotations down in size (e.g. 8 weeks of surgery to 4 weeks of surgery). I believe this is really detrimental to an understanding of surgery and post-op or even long term care of patients (if you are going to make the argument that FP don't need at least 8 weeks of surgery, I think you are delusional).

In terms of DNP, everyone says "they already have experience they don't need schooling" to do the job of the FP. Here is the analogy I would create for you:

Paralegal of 25 years, believes they can do the job of a lawyer (say, patent law), they have drafted documents, they have worked in depth in all aspects of the practice. Should they be allowed to practice patent law independently? NO!!!!! Because, all they lack the theoretical knowledge and its that knowledge that allows lawyers to tackle unique and difficult situations. Here is what people need to get through their head:

EXPERIENCE CANNOT REPLACE THEORETICAL KNOWLEDGE

It's only when you combine theoretical and practical knowledge of science that you should be allowed to practice unsupervised MEDICINE. (aka, nursing is NOT medicine).

👍

All you guys who say let DNPs take over or shorten med school, dont realize the differences. How many of you have looked at the DNP curriculum? Its a bunch of garbage. Please google it and tell me if any of those things are good for patient care.

Second, I dont know how anyone can say that med school should be shorter, medical science is only getting more in depth and detailed. Primary care doctors are the gateway to other specialties. If you dont have the proper training you wont even know what to look for let alone who to refer the case too.

Thirdly People are getting unhealtier, they show up with more and more problems. Yea maybe a nurse can handle a cold or sore throat, but how about that diabetic with HTN and peripheral neuropathy and a laundry list of medications. Yea send him to the PCP doctor, but no PCPs will be left if they cant keep their doors open because all the easy cases were taken by the DNPs, as well as the people not getting diagnosed properly because it looked like an easy case and the DNP didnt wasnt able to see any difference.

 

[surftheiop]

It's ignorant statements like this that are going to get our profession into trouble.

First, the basic sciences are packed in 1.5 years but there are NO loss in core rotation time for these students.

Second, students at Duke have to complete a THESIS, which requires independent thinking and exploring clinical/basic science at an indepth level (probably more so, than any class could teach you).

The program at LECOM and and the new program at Texas aren't doing that (if you bothered to look at their curriculum). All they are doing is cutting core rotations down in size (e.g. 8 weeks of surgery to 4 weeks of surgery). I believe this is really detrimental to an understanding of surgery and post-op or even long term care of patients (if you are going to make the argument that FP don't need at least 8 weeks of surgery, I think you are delusional).

In terms of DNP, everyone says "they already have experience they don't need schooling" to do the job of the FP. Here is the analogy I would create for you:

Paralegal of 25 years, believes they can do the job of a lawyer (say, patent law), they have drafted documents, they have worked in depth in all aspects of the practice. Should they be allowed to practice patent law independently? NO!!!!! Because, all they lack the theoretical knowledge and its that knowledge that allows lawyers to tackle unique and difficult situations. Here is what people need to get through their head:

EXPERIENCE CANNOT REPLACE THEORETICAL KNOWLEDGE

It's only when you combine theoretical and practical knowledge of science that you should be allowed to practice unsupervised MEDICINE. (aka, nursing is NOT medicine).

Your argument here is odd, you claim that its a tragedy that the FP at Tech are missing out on 4 weeks of surgical EXPERIENCE, then you go on a rant saying how EXPERIENCE isn't what makes a physician qualified to practice?

 

[shiftingmirage]

Every so often, various groups on campus invite docs to give feedback/answer ? about their fields/specialties. One individual said she was in the first class at Loyola to try out a 3 year MD program, they took like 20 people, and the rest did a regular 4 year program. They did all the classes in 1 year, and regular 2 year rotations. I think she said there were one or two more classes of the three year program when Loyola decided 4 years was best.

I don't think a 3 year program will really help the doctor shortage. I mean, there are tons of people that apply and don't get into a school, and some of them do have what it takes. If classes were just made bigger, or new schools were built, than those who were qualified but didn't get in could then attend medical school and become physicians. It's not like the 4 year part is scaring people away. Also, part of the doctor shortage is due to a cap on residency programs. There are only so many slots and the governing bodies have said they don't want to increase residency spots in part to keep being a physician a prestigious career.

So, want more primary care docs? Make classes bigger/open more schools, and open more primary care residency spots.

 

[dd128]

So, want more primary care docs? Make classes bigger/open more schools, and open more primary care residency spots.

Unfortunately even that won't work. There are plenty of PC spots, nobody wants them because of the money issue. Which maybe they are trying to address by having the students get scholarships and come out with lower debt in 3 years instead of 4.

I have a funny feeling these guys coming out of this program with a full MD practice PC for a couple years, if that, then go do fellowships somewhere. The only way to keep that from happening I guess would be to have them sign a contract saying, "I will not sub-specialize as long as I live..." which I doubt is legal.

Only way to get more people into PC, is to have med students come out of school debt free or have them get paid more IMO.

 

[AbbyNormal]

They will not be taking a summer break so calculate that into the comparison.

I never did understand why medical schools don't have classes in summer. It seems like wasted time to me. Are there some 4 yr programs that don't take summer break?

 

[Dr McSexy]

There are plenty of PC spots, nobody wants them because of the money issue.

Maybe US MD graduates don't want them on the whole. But plenty of FMGs want them. I haven't seen PC go unfilled after the scramble (are there?).

I would think if you open up more PC residency spots, they would get filled one way or another.

Of course, this doesn't stop people for subspecializing or become hospitalists.

 

[MegaProjectile]

It's ignorant statements like this that are going to get our profession into trouble.

First, the basic sciences are packed in 1.5 years but there are NO loss in core rotation time for these students.

Second, students at Duke have to complete a THESIS, which requires independent thinking and exploring clinical/basic science at an indepth level (probably more so, than any class could teach you).

The program at LECOM and and the new program at Texas aren't doing that (if you bothered to look at their curriculum). All they are doing is cutting core rotations down in size (e.g. 8 weeks of surgery to 4 weeks of surgery). I believe this is really detrimental to an understanding of surgery and post-op or even long term care of patients (if you are going to make the argument that FP don't need at least 8 weeks of surgery, I think you are delusional).

4 weeks of surgery? Family medicine residencies tend to have up to 8 weeks(2 months) of required surgery rotations(Inpatient and Outpatient) in their curriculum. Here is a link to Swedish Hospital family medicine curriculum: http://www.fammed.washington.edu/network/sfm/onlinecurriculum.htm

 

[MegaProjectile]

Unfortunately even that won't work. There are plenty of PC spots, nobody wants them because of the money issue. Which maybe they are trying to address by having the students get scholarships and come out with lower debt in 3 years instead of 4.

I have a funny feeling these guys coming out of this program with a full MD practice PC for a couple years, if that, then go do fellowships somewhere. The only way to keep that from happening I guess would be to have them sign a contract saying, "I will not sub-specialize as long as I live..." which I doubt is legal.

Only way to get more people into PC, is to have med students come out of school debt free or have them get paid more IMO.

That's why these programs should be geared toward family medicine not internal medicine(which has a ton of subspecialties). Most family docs can either subspecialize to geriatric care, sport medicine or some obstetrics etc to supplement their PC practice. I'm not sure if it's even possible to switch from FM to cardiology or something without having to go through residency again (IM and then cardiology fellowship).

 

[gplex86]

Whoever wrote this article didn't do their homework. Accelerated MD programs have been offered in the past, particularly during World War II. If you think that's too ancient, consider that those physicians would have been practicing into the 1990's.

Furthermore, the NYMC classes of 1975 and 1976 has a 3-year option. The four year program was in Manhattan, and the three year program was here in Westchester. Other medical schools were experimenting with it at the time. I know faculty who graduated from the three-year program and they have prominent careers.

When you consider that Duke finishes the basic sciences in 1 year, and the fourth year is mostly electives, an intensive 3-year curriculum is absolutely possible. In fact, it has been done before.