Thank You Letters

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Packers4Life

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How important are thank you letters after interviews?

Is it better to email or send a thank you card?

When should you send thank you letters? How much time should elapse between the interview day and writing the thank you letter?

Anyone get matched to a program without writing a thank you letter?
 
Packers4Life said:
How important are thank you letters after interviews?

Is it better to email or send a thank you card?

When should you send thank you letters? How much time should elapse between the interview day and writing the thank you letter?

Anyone get matched to a program without writing a thank you letter?
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1) Not very.

2) Email if you must, easier for me to shoot back a quick acknowledgement. Less trouble and expense for you, less guilt about recycling it for me.

3) Doesn't matter. But if you're doing it to express sincere appreciation, the sooner the better.

4) Frequently.
 
Packers4Life said:
How important are thank you letters after interviews?

Is it better to email or send a thank you card?

When should you send thank you letters? How much time should elapse between the interview day and writing the thank you letter?

Anyone get matched to a program without writing a thank you letter?
Click to expand...

1) Thanks you notes have almost no impact on how I rank people. In general I would prefer not to get any of the routine/generic letters. They are a waste of everybody's time.

2) I prefer written letters because I then do not feel obligated to respond back.

3) I would say either right after you interview.

4) All the time. I never sent a one and look at me -- a big time PD!

For me what is useful is the end of the season emails where applicants tell me that they really want to come to my program. Getting these #1 letters helps me focus on that part of the list where I am likely to fill and spend my time studying those applicants and making sure I get that part of my list as "correct" as possible.
 
psychattending said:
1) Thanks you notes have almost no impact on how I rank people. In general I would prefer not to get any of the routine/generic letters. They are a waste of everybody's time.

2) I prefer written letters because I then do not feel obligated to respond back.

3) I would say either right after you interview.

4) All the time. I never sent a one and look at me -- a big time PD!

For me what is useful is the end of the season emails where applicants tell me that they really want to come to my program. Getting these #1 letters helps me focus on that part of the list where I am likely to fill and spend my time studying those applicants and making sure I get that part of my list as "correct" as possible.
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Do you think it "hurts" our chances at our number 2 or 3 program because we can only tell our number 1 that they are 1? I've read on here that saying you are at the top of my rank list sends the signal that the program isn't 1st.

Thanks for the insight!
 
moonshined said:
Just tell them you are really interested in the program without mentioning anything about the rank list. I don't think you can even legally tell a program they are your #1? At least that's my understanding of the NBME rule. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Where did you get that idea? Just curious because I've heard that before and I'm not sure where it's coming from.
 
moonshined said:
Just tell them you are really interested in the program without mentioning anything about the rank list. I don't think you can even legally tell a program they are your #1? At least that's my understanding of the NBME rule. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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You can tell us anything you want*. We just can't ask you.

(*Whether or not it's the truth...which is why these declarations of love are about as reliable as Vegas marriage certificates.)

From the NRMP website--e.g. The Real Deal:
Both applicants and programs may express their interest in each
other; however, they shall not solicit verbal or written statements implying a commitment.
Applicants shall at all times be free to keep confidential the names or identities of
programs to which they have or may apply. The NRMP recommends that each
applicant, program director, and institutional official read carefully the Match
Communication Code of Conduct for information on acceptable methods of interaction
during the interview and matching processes.
In addition, it is a breach of the applicable Match Participation Agreement for:
(a) a program to request applicants to reveal ranking preferences; or

(b) an applicant to suggest or inform a program that placement on a rank
order list or acceptance of an offer during SOAP is contingent upon
submission of a verbal or written statement indicating intentions; or

(c) a program to suggest or inform an applicant that placement on a rank
order list or a SOAP preference list is contingent upon submission of a
verbal or written statement indicating the applicant’s preference; or
(d) a program to require applicants to reveal the names or identities of
programs to which they have or may apply; or

(e) a program and an applicant in the Matching Program to make any verbal
or written contract for appointment to a concurrent year residency or
fellowship position prior to the release of the List of Unfilled Programs.
 
prittypistol said:
Do you think it "hurts" our chances at our number 2 or 3 program because we can only tell our number 1 that they are 1? I've read on here that saying you are at the top of my rank list sends the signal that the program isn't 1st.

Thanks for the insight!
Click to expand...

Oh no!! I told a program that they are high on my rank list, but I am going to rank them #1. Should I email them back and tell them that they are number 1 on my rank list????
 
talia whiter said:
Oh no!! I told a program that they are high on my rank list, but I am going to rank them #1. Should I email them back and tell them that they are number 1 on my rank list????
Click to expand...
No. Chill out. They know you are serious about them. They will rank you according to their own preference.
 
OldPsychDoc said:
We get a report of where our applicants matched.
My coordinator calls it "The Liars' List"... :nono:
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I hope this is a joke. I know it doesn't really matter that much, but my #1 preference changed during the interview trail, and I made the mistake of previously telling another program that they were my #1 at the time. I should have held out until the end, but I was one of those people who overanalyzed every step of the process and felt like I should be as transparent as possible at every step along the way so that others could also overanalyze my preferences. I'm sure they probably didn't remember or care, but I just don't want it to seem like I was being dishonest...
 
Do Program Directors talkk to each other? For example what if you emailed 5 programs that they are are #1?
 
shan564 said:
I hope this is a joke. I know it doesn't really matter that much, but my #1 preference changed during the interview trail, and I made the mistake of previously telling another program that they were my #1 at the time. I should have held out until the end, but I was one of those people who overanalyzed every step of the process and felt like I should be as transparent as possible at every step along the way so that others could also overanalyze my preferences. I'm sure they probably didn't remember or care, but I just don't want it to seem like I was being dishonest...
Click to expand...

I'm in a somewhat similar situation. I emailed a local program back in July when I was trying to get an away rotation at that program. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get the rotation as it was already full. I wrote the PC something like "Although I'm disappointed to not get the rotation, your residency program is my top choice and I look forwards to applying." However, this way prior to interview season. I still really love the program and may still rank them #1, but after auditioning and interviewing at other programs, I'm no longer sure. I consider myself an ethical person and never wanted to mislead anyone. I will refrain from sending another #1 email until after my rank list is finalized, but I hope that one program doesn't hold it against me, as it was a long time ago when I told them that. I feel really horrible about it and wish I hadn't said anything that early.
 
talia whiter said:
Do Program Directors talkk to each other? For example what if you emailed 5 programs that they are are #1?
Click to expand...

If I told you that we never talk about you would you feel bad that we really must not love you that much...or good that you might be able to lie and get away with it?

We don't have to talk to each other to know you lied--if we went deeper than your ranking in our list and see that you matched somewhere else, we'll know that you (at best) changed your mind after the email. Four of us will feel good about ourselves for a short time when we get the email, and then (at worst) briefly irritated with you when we find out. But there is something wrong with your approach to the Match if you feel that you have to find a way to manipulate the system.

If we ranked you, we do get to see where you matched. Most of us have better things to do than obsess about it. And when we get together in March, we're not going to be taking time to compare rank lists or applicant notes. (We've got to figure out this whole "Milestones" thing before July!)
My approach: We'll be truthful to you, I hope you will return the favor.
If we gave you an interview, we are telling you that we think you're qualified to be ranked. (Rarely someone doesn't "live up to their paper", or we catch a red flag in person that we missed in the application, but it's rare indeed. Less than 5% of interviewees.)
We rank applicants in the order we prefer them. If we'd rather take our chances in the SOAP than take on a particular person, we don't list them. (Likewise, if you think you would HATE a particular program, please don't rank them.)
We say "thank you for interviewing, we hope you match with us", and we mean it. No hidden meanings, no subtext.
It's nice to know that you like our program and want to come here, but it won't influence your ranking if you are declaring "#1" or "ranking high".
We answer honest questions honestly.
We don't lie to applicants.
Please don't lie to us.
 
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rkaz said:
I'm in a somewhat similar situation. I emailed a local program back in July when I was trying to get an away rotation at that program. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get the rotation as it was already full. I wrote the PC something like "Although I'm disappointed to not get the rotation, your residency program is my top choice and I look forwards to applying." However, this way prior to interview season. I still really love the program and may still rank them #1, but after auditioning and interviewing at other programs, I'm no longer sure. I consider myself an ethical person and never wanted to mislead anyone. I will refrain from sending another #1 email until after my rank list is finalized, but I hope that one program doesn't hold it against me, as it was a long time ago when I told them that. I feel really horrible about it and wish I hadn't said anything that early.
Click to expand...

That was even pre-application, so I doubt anyone will hold it against you, even if they do remember.

Does your high school crush still feel betrayed that you're not spending the rest of your lives together? 😉
 
talia whiter said:
Do Program Directors talkk to each other? For example what if you emailed 5 programs that they are are #1?
Click to expand...

I want to clarify that I DID NOT tell 5 programs that they are my #1 choice. This was just a hypothetical question. I apologize if I have offended any of the program directors
 
So I've done some interviewing this year, and I completed my feedback forms pretty shortly after the interview, giving little to no time for someone to send a thank you letter to me. I got a few afterwards, and I'll admit they did make me feel a little more fond of the applicant (but I'm only doing this briefly and hence not jaded). However, they made no difference in my formal evaluation because that was already done. Maybe at the margins they make some difference, but it sounds like it's not a huge deal. I haven't heard our program directors/coordinators make special comment of people who sent or didn't send thank you notes. I've got to admit I sucked at sending them but did send them where I wound up.

As for telling a program they're your top choice, I did that and got a reply back from the PD (no longer here) saying that I would wind up here, which was true. So sending it in that particular situation led to some reduced anxiety around the match, although I still knew that the PDs reply wasn't a guarantee. We don't do that anymore, btw. However, if someone really is your top choice, it's totally legitimate to tell them and potentially useful at some programs.
 
prittypistol said:
Do you think it "hurts" our chances at our number 2 or 3 program because we can only tell our number 1 that they are 1? I've read on here that saying you are at the top of my rank list sends the signal that the program isn't 1st.

Thanks for the insight!
Click to expand...
It does not hurt your chances at your #2 and #3 schools. Just be honest and polite. I don't think I have ever had an applicant tell me I am #2. Instead they use phrases like, high on my list, IN the top part of my list. #1 should only be used for your #1 school. In my mind AT the top of my list also equates to #1 since there is only one top to something.
 
I think applicants can tell programs anything and it shouldn’t change anything. Programs know to list applicants by what they consider important qualities. Most applicant signals are somewhat distorted anyway, and not just by blatant fibbing, but by other reasons people change their minds already covered above.

If the strongest candidate tells a program that the program is way down on their list, why should that bring that candidate down lower on the program’s list? If they don’t come, they don’t come and the outcome of the match will not change. If a weak candidate tells a program it is unrequited love from the word go, should programs move that person up to the possible exclusion of better candidates? Any adjusting will only make the match look better in terms of how far a program goes down its list on paper, but this is artificial and it comes at a potential price in talent. If a program’s ego is steering the process, probably a second psychoanalysis is indicated.

The only exception I can think of to what I am saying is that adjustments might give a program more matches that truly choose to train with them. I suppose there might be some applicants who really really want one particular program and whose number two choice is a distant second. If they don’t get their first choice, they may present a morale problem for the number two program, but I bet most applicants would be fairly happy with their number two choice.

Relatively weak applicants can tell good programs, so so programs, and undesirable programs that they are #1, but that wouldn’t do much either. Competitive programs are not likely to move them much. Programs that struggle to fill (does not always mean “bad” program) just being on the list is probably enough.

For an applicant, the match itself only feels like where this game is played, but most of it is in the getting or not getting interviews. For the programs, it is the other way around. Lots of good people will come and talk to all kinds of programs, but matching good applicants is where the rubber meets the road.
 
MacDonaldTriad said:
I think applicants can tell programs anything and it shouldn’t change anything. Programs know to list applicants by what they consider important qualities. Most applicant signals are somewhat distorted anyway, and not just by blatant fibbing, but by other reasons people change their minds already covered above.

If the strongest candidate tells a program that the program is way down on their list, why should that bring that candidate down lower on the program’s list? If they don’t come, they don’t come and the outcome of the match will not change. If a weak candidate tells a program it is unrequited love from the word go, should programs move that person up to the possible exclusion of better candidates? Any adjusting will only make the match look better in terms of how far a program goes down its list on paper, but this is artificial and it comes at a potential price in talent. If a program’s ego is steering the process, probably a second psychoanalysis is indicated.

The only exception I can think of to what I am saying is that adjustments might give a program more matches that truly choose to train with them. I suppose there might be some applicants who really really want one particular program and whose number two choice is a distant second. If they don’t get their first choice, they may present a morale problem for the number two program, but I bet most applicants would be fairly happy with their number two choice.

Relatively weak applicants can tell good programs, so so programs, and undesirable programs that they are #1, but that wouldn’t do much either. Competitive programs are not likely to move them much. Programs that struggle to fill (does not always mean “bad” program) just being on the list is probably enough.

For an applicant, the match itself only feels like where this game is played, but most of it is in the getting or not getting interviews. For the programs, it is the other way around. Lots of good people will come and talk to all kinds of programs, but matching good applicants is where the rubber meets the road.
Click to expand...

This is an interesting perspective. What do you mean for programs' rubber hitting the road?--do you mean that what they have to offer applicants is in their intern class yield? I wonder because I had one program on my list that I wanted an interview at and would've ranked them highly based on location despite them being a decent but entirely unremarkable program--one that in my focus groups with other applicants on the interview trail ranked low for all the people who I talked to that interviewed there. So their rubber never hit my road. In no way am I buttsore about it. But just like someone who got turned down by a hot girl for the prom--it pleases me that I have hotter programs on my arm for rank list time.

So the hitting of rubber and road is interesting to me. I talked to some programs I probably shouldn't have. But kept that to a minimum. Mostly it was a process of discovering where I really wanted to go with a few surprises mixed in. What's it like for you guys? Seems like lots of suits. Sales pitches. And test scores. What goes into how you feel about your new interns?
 
Maybe my use of “rubber meeting the road” wasn’t very clear. Programs tend to get all kinds of good applications in Sept. Applicants get some very real early feedback as to how they are doing as they get or don’t get interviews throughout the process. Programs may get a few cancelations or offer a few interviews that are not accepted, but most people who apply will come and interview. For programs, getting a few cancelations out of so many makes less difference in the large pool than it does for applicants who are getting or not getting interviews.

A program can have what seems like their best interview season ever, in terms of quality of people interviewed, and yet have the worst match result in history. They can also have what seems like a very weak interview year and end up with the strongest group ever matched. It all hangs on the match.

Don’t get me wrong, the match is very key for applicants because they have an outcome of one and it means 4 years of life, but I think they do get more of a sense of how this is going earlier than the programs do.

What goes into how you feel about your new interns?

Beats me. We never know what a class will be like and are often surprised. The “best” matches can disappoint, and the lowest matches can knock your socks off. It also seems to take quite a bit of marination time to see how it goes. Some slow starters hit their stride and some stallions stop running and start grazing.
 
I agree that what applicants say should not have an effect the rank list. With that said I do think that programs want to match with applicants that sincerely want to go to their program. Someone can look great on paper, but be a miserable resident if they are truly unhapy. Applicants really should not rank a program they wouldn't want to attend. In reality, the only way I can imagine this being a problem is if someone excepts to match their top program and ends up matching very low on their list .
 
I think it is fairly rare applicants match low on their lists. Generally, they either get interviews or they don’t. If you have a fairly long list, the odds of going to the bottom are low.

Let me echo Scorcher31, do not list any program you would be unhappy at. You don’t want to be miserable and we don’t want you to be miserable.
 
Are the "I'm ranking you very highly" emails worth sending? I'll definitely send something to my #1, but beyond that I'm not sure if it'll help or hurt at my #2 and 3. I've sent thank you emails along the way so I wasn't sure if sending something else now, but not something that saying they're my #1, would be at all worthwhile.
 
jackson1 said:
Are the "I'm ranking you very highly" emails worth sending? I'll definitely send something to my #1, but beyond that I'm not sure if it'll help or hurt at my #2 and 3. I've sent thank you emails along the way so I wasn't sure if sending something else now, but not something that saying they're my #1, would be at all worthwhile.
Click to expand...


That's kind of my fear...not ending up at my number 1, but then not getting anywhere else high in my list because everyone else who told my #2,3 school that they were their number one will end up there
 
prittypistol said:
That's kind of my fear...not ending up at my number 1, but then not getting anywhere else high in my list because everyone else who told my #2,3 school that they were their number one will end up there
Click to expand...

I am hardly an expert on the match algorithm, but your fear is a little unfounded - if you don't land at your #1, then you will land at #2 if you are higher on their list than your competitors are, even if they ranked it #1, and so on...at least that is how I think it works. You will only miss out on #2, then 3, etc., if those programs have you ranked lower than your competition who ranked them #1. I could be wrong about this...somebody will come in and set us both straight.
 
jackson1 said:
Are the "I'm ranking you very highly" emails worth sending? I'll definitely send something to my #1, but beyond that I'm not sure if it'll help or hurt at my #2 and 3. I've sent thank you emails along the way so I wasn't sure if sending something else now, but not something that saying they're my #1, would be at all worthwhile.
Click to expand...

I am convinced it doesn't matter, at least not enough to make a difference, in where a program would rank me.

I received a "we really really like you" email from a program, a program I regard highly, but only have in the middle of my ROL. But I can tell you that email hasn't changed my thoughts on where to rank it one iota - I did not move it up, and I will not move it down - it sits exactly in my ROL where it was before the email. Thus I can't believe that my sending a "you are my #1" to a PD who has seen it all before could possibly have any effect on where a program ranks me, either.
 
I wrote a letter to a PD who I had interviewed with AFTER the match. I had been meaning to write her for awhile, though it remained on my to-do list for too long. Obviously there was no strategic benefit, as I matched to a program higher on my list. I really liked that particular program a LOT as it was very resident friendly and an excellent program, but I only ranked it lower as it was a smaller city with no direct flight back to my hometown. That particular PD was very kind to me, and I just wanted to tell her that I genuinely appreciated it. I hesitated to send the email, as I didn't know if it would look weird to send a 'thank you' after the program already matched other applicants... but I sent it anyway, and she responded that my email made her day. 🙂 Sometimes you just do things, not because it gives you any sort of strategic advantage, but just because you feel that is the right thing to do...

I decided against sending any "You are my #1" emails at the time of ranking. I did tell the program that I actually ranked #1 that I was ranking them "highly", but I didn't match there anyway. The program I matched at is considered much more competitive to match into than my #1 (at least that's what I hear on this forum), and I didn't send the PD of my program any communication (though I did thank the PC). It's just the randomness of the match process.
 
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