The 2018-2019 cycle is going to get turned upside down

Med Ed

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Word has come down from the heavens that the AAMC will no longer issue the multiple acceptance report or national acceptance report each spring. Furthermore, the prohibition on schools accepting students who have already matriculated at other schools will be dissolved.

Make no mistake, this is going to wreak havoc with many schools across the country. It will be interesting to see what admissions offices will do in order to fill their seats (and keep them filled).
 

SCN1a

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This seems extremely counterproductive. The multiple acceptance report seems crucial for those who are on the Waitlists to be given a chance to be offered admission because they are more likely to accept the position and not withdraw. Is this happening this current cycle or the next one?
 

xffan624

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Word has come down from the heavens that the AAMC will no longer issue the multiple acceptance report or national acceptance report each spring. Furthermore, the prohibition on schools accepting students who have already matriculated at other schools will be dissolved.

Make no mistake, this is going to wreak havoc with many schools across the country. It will be interesting to see what admissions offices will do in order to fill their seats (and keep them filled).
I'm predicting high dollar monetary deposits... What was a once a gentlemen/women's game will be a free-for-all.
 
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Med Ed

Med Ed

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This seems extremely counterproductive. The multiple acceptance report seems crucial for those who are on the Waitlists to be given a chance to be offered admission because they are more likely to accept the position and not withdraw. Is this happening this current cycle or the next one?
2018-2019. This year's are already out.

Edit: adjusted thread title to avoid confusion. Thanks.
 

SuaveCardigans

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What is the given justification for this? Does not seem to benefit anyone or serve an apparent purpose (to me)
 
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LizzyM

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Prometheus123

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This could be fallout of a federal probe of LACs that are being investigated by the US Department of Justice for collusion. Story was in the Wall Street Journal on April 12, 2018.
Also here:
The Boston Globe
I get an error in that URL and it redirects to the home page. Please re-post link?
 
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fdgjfg

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Interesting; seems like the effect will be a stressful April/May for adcoms and admissions deans since they won't be able to predict yield of the accepted cohort very well, or yield of the waitlisted cohort either. For applicants, the effect will probably be that the waitlist season lasts longer into the summer (since more applicants might turn down waitlist offers), or applicants might be given less time to make a decision on a waitlist offer.

The article mentioned by LizzyM is referencing a DoJ inquiry into the sharing of info related to undergrad LACs in the northeast (names were shared to ensure people didn't apply ED to multiple programs, and to communicate to other programs that they shouldn't be applying RD anywhere else).

I think this is the correct Boston Globe link: Amherst, Wellesley, Wesleyan face DOJ early decision investigation - The Boston Globe

here's the one from the WSJ: DOJ Targeting College Early-Admission Programs
 

TheVisionary

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What exactly does this mean for us applying? I'm a little confused at what the multiple acceptance system is
The acceptance reports typically come out around Feb 1st and April 1st. In Feb, the AAMC tells a school that has accepted you if you have any other acceptances and where those acceptances are (multiple acceptance report). In April, typically after schools initially fill their class pre-WL movement (which begins May 1), the AAMC releases information about all MD acceptances (national acceptance report).

I have mixed feelings about the change. It may be harder for a student with multiple acceptances to leverage financial aid/scholarships and for a WL'd applicant to have bargaining power for an LOI. Now it seems that name dropping your acceptances in an LOI is necessary so that the school you want can verify what you're saying. In terms of choosing which people to take off WLs, though, nothing crazy should change save post-WL yields going down. Adcoms here seem to say they don't prioritize taking students with few or 0 acceptances off the waitlist anyway.

Some may disagree with me, but I think it is great for applicants that the matriculation date restriction is lifted. It ends some loopholes (i.e. ditching a DO school post-matriculation allowed but not for MD) and stops putting some WL'd applicants at a potential disadvantage if their school starts early in July. From a school standpoint, this may lead to more vacancies, but if 60% of applicants don't get in the first time, each school should be more or less covered if they have a deep WL of interviewed students.

It'd be interesting to see if LOIs become more important this cycle in order to fill up classes. I see many issues with the current LOI process and would like to see if the AAMC could start a centralized LOI system to prevent people from ruining this system that can otherwise provide benefits to schools an applicants alike.
 
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500miles

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The acceptance reports typically come out around Feb 1st and April 1st. In Feb, the AAMC tells a school that has accepted you if you have any other acceptances and where those acceptances are (multiple acceptance report). In April, typically after schools initially fill their class pre-WL movement (which begins May 1), the AAMC releases information about all MD acceptances (national acceptance report).

I have mixed feelings about the change. It may be harder for a student with multiple acceptances to leverage financial aid/scholarships and for a WL'd applicant to have bargaining power for an LOI. Now it seems that name dropping your acceptances in an LOI is necessary so that the school you want can verify what you're saying. In terms of choosing which people to take off WLs, though, nothing crazy should change save post-WL yields going down. Adcoms here seem to say they don't prioritize taking students with few or 0 acceptances off the waitlist anyway.

Some may disagree with me, but I think it is great for applicants that the matriculation date restriction is lifted. It ends some loopholes (i.e. ditching a DO school post-matriculation allowed but not for MD) and stops putting some WL'd applicants at a potential disadvantage if their school starts early in July. From a school standpoint, this may lead to more vacancies, but if 60% of applicants don't get in the first time, each school should be more or less covered if they have a deep WL of interviewed students.

It'd be interesting to see if LOIs become more important this cycle in order to fill up classes. I see many issues with the current LOI process and would like to see if the AAMC could start a centralized LOI system to prevent people from ruining this system that can otherwise provide benefits to schools an applicants alike.
Thanks for clarifying that. So this would only effect applicants with multiple acceptances and not those who just receive one acceptance?
 

boogiecousins94

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From a school standpoint, this may lead to more vacancies, but if 60% of applicants don't get in the first time, each school should be more or less covered if they have a deep WL of interviewed students.
I always thought schools stop accepting people off their WL once classes start? That means the class sizes could be different/unfilled if a lot of people ditch after matriculation. I always thought you cant get into a school after classes start, unless that's a school specific rule and not an AAMC rule.
 
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Med Ed

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What is the given justification for this? Does not seem to benefit anyone or serve an apparent purpose (to me)
Lawsuits, the same reason for every dramatic AAMC change.

Let's say you're an amazing applicant who gets into Penn, Yale, and Hopkins. But you have your heart set on Stanford, who waitlists you. At some point Stanford looks at the multiple acceptance report, sees that you have three other amazing offers, and skips you. Lawsuit.

Let's say you are an amazing applicant who gets into Penn, Yale, and Hopkins. But you have your heart set on Stanford, who waitlists you. Eventually you reluctantly start orientation and Penn/Yale/Hopkins, but a few days in a seat comes open at Stanford. You are at the top of their waitlist, but they give the seat to someone else because you have started elsewhere. Lawsuit.
 

SuaveCardigans

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Lawsuits, the same reason for every dramatic AAMC change.

Let's say you're an amazing applicant who gets into Penn, Yale, and Hopkins. But you have your heart set on Stanford, who waitlists you. At some point Stanford looks at the multiple acceptance report, sees that you have three other amazing offers, and skips you. Lawsuit.

Let's say you are an amazing applicant who gets into Penn, Yale, and Hopkins. But you have your heart set on Stanford, who waitlists you. Eventually you reluctantly start orientation and Penn/Yale/Hopkins, but a few days in a seat comes open at Stanford. You are at the top of their waitlist, but they give the seat to someone else because you have started elsewhere. Lawsuit.
I want to say that someone suing for the above situations is asinine and unrealistic, but alas this is the US of A.

It is a shame that the entitled few can steer institutions towards protectionist policies. I think the allowance of matriculated students to change schools in particular is gonna eff some schools over somewhat regularly
 
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Lawsuits, the same reason for every dramatic AAMC change.

Let's say you're an amazing applicant who gets into Penn, Yale, and Hopkins. But you have your heart set on Stanford, who waitlists you. At some point Stanford looks at the multiple acceptance report, sees that you have three other amazing offers, and skips you. Lawsuit.

Let's say you are an amazing applicant who gets into Penn, Yale, and Hopkins. But you have your heart set on Stanford, who waitlists you. Eventually you reluctantly start orientation and Penn/Yale/Hopkins, but a few days in a seat comes open at Stanford. You are at the top of their waitlist, but they give the seat to someone else because you have started elsewhere. Lawsuit.

This is a good thing. I think alot of schools abuse the multiple reports to their advantage. Some schools will wait until April 30th to accept students because they will be able to determine how likely you are to come there. It forces schools to make legitimate offers to candidates and not offers based upon how likely an individual is to attend that school.
 

efle

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So @Med Ed and @LizzyM what are the likely changes we see in the upcoming cycle from this?

1) Scholarships awarded truly on merit, not on recruiting away from peers and
2) much more hectic waitlist motion since schools can no longer see how many in the original admit group will likely go elsewhere?
 

MareNostrummm

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Adcoms here seem to say they don't prioritize taking students with few or 0 acceptances off the waitlist anyway.
Can any adcoms comment on this? I would think it would be a factor for unranked waitlists.
 
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Lucca

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I wonder what amplified effect this might have on the Md/PhD cycle given that a very significant number of matriculants receive their only acceptance from a waitlist and even more are on multiple wait lists at a time as a result of a small number of applicants holding many acceptances.

Curious as to what @Fencer thinks, apologies for the bat signal.
 

LizzyM

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I'd expect more later season interviews to ask about other offers. It might be phrased as "what will you do if you aren't admitted to medical school?" as a way for applicants to say, "well, I've been admitted but hypothetically, if I hadn't been admitted, I would consider..."

I'd also expect more letters of interest/intent from applicants and, perhaps, more schools making those an explicit expectation after interview as a way of indicating continued interest in the school.

I do believe we have to hold firm with a "no poaching" rule meaning that once you matriculate at a school, your name automatically becomes known to all medical schools you've applied to using AMCAS and you are automatically removed from any waitlist. A school with an empty seat on the first day of classes shouldn't be able to poach a student who started last week at another school leaving the school with an earlier start date an empty seat that it can't fill (because the student will have missed too much of the first year curriculum).
 

libertyyne

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Inb4 there is an attempt to use the match algorithm by aamc for med school admissions.
 

PreMedMissteps

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I always thought schools stop accepting people off their WL once classes start? That means the class sizes could be different/unfilled if a lot of people ditch after matriculation. I always thought you cant get into a school after classes start, unless that's a school specific rule and not an AAMC rule.
Nope
 

libertyyne

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Doesn't Texas do something like this already?
they do, im not sure if it is the same algo. The only thing that I dont know how would work would be unexpected withdrawls or defferments. Would there be a soap?
 

PreMedMissteps

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I agree with the “no poaching” of matriculated students. It just causes havoc. But I don’t see any or enough positives resulting from eliminating the multiple acceptance report or the national acceptance report. I only see negatives.
 

efle

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I agree with the “no poaching” of matriculated students. It just causes havoc. But I don’t see any or enough positives resulting from eliminating the multiple acceptance report or the national acceptance report. I only see negatives.
I can sympathize with the hypothetical student in meded's post above. Being skipped on the waitlist at a school because they see you're already accepted a few other places sucks for the applicant. Keeping schools blind so they have to admit who they actually prefer, and not factor in yield, can only make things more meritocratic.
 
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I can sympathize with the hypothetical student in meded's post above. Being skipped on the waitlist at a school because they see you're already accepted a few other places sucks for the applicant. Keeping schools blind so they have to admit who they actually prefer, and not factor in yield, can only make things more meritocratic.
Agreed! I honestly don't understand why yield is ever even considered by schools. I'm not sure if U.S. News ranking is the only reason schools worry about yield percentage, but if so then they should stop factoring it in rankings. I feel like if schools just went after the applicants they wanted and didn't consider yield, it would produce better results in terms of students ending up where they fit best. Personally I wouldn't look at a school with low yield percentage in any worse light, it just means they're aiming for as strong a class as they can get which is something I would want to be a part of. I would love to hear an ADCOM's point of view though on the usefulness of multiple/national acceptance reports for doing their job.
 

libertyyne

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Agreed! I honestly don't understand why yield is ever even considered by schools. I'm not sure if U.S. News ranking is the only reason schools worry about yield percentage, but if so then they should stop factoring it in rankings. I feel like if schools just went after the applicants they wanted and didn't consider yield, it would produce better results in terms of students ending up where they fit best. Personally I wouldn't look at a school with low yield percentage in any worse light, it just means they're aiming for as strong a class as they can get which is something I would want to be a part of. I would love to hear an ADCOM's point of view though on the usefulness of multiple/national acceptance reports for doing their job.
There is probably less chaos close to the start of classes and more organized waitlist movement, considering ADCOMS know who is going to show up and who isnt. For the majority of applicants with only one acceptance this makes no difference at all considering they only have one acceptance.
 

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I can just imagine my wily old Admissions dean saying "now they know what we have to go through."

I surmise that schools that currently waitlist most of their interviewees will have to now give out more acceptances.

Schools will also have to have a bigger wait list pool to draw upon at the end of the year, after seeing how many people turn down accepts.

Schools may also do what a lot of DO schools do, charge a large deposit due some 2-3 weeks after the interview to see who is serious about attending.

Schools may start off being the least selective at the beginning of the cycle, when they interview (on paper at least) the best applicants, and then maybe become less picky if their acceptance and withdrawal rates are not optimal.

At my school, we have local alternates on the wait list who attend the first day or two of classes to make sure that if anyone balls on those days, we have people ready to pull. Kinda like jury alternates. I suspect that this will be less of a problem given the local MD can't poach our kids after they matriculate.
 
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There is probably less chaos close to the start of classes and more organized waitlist movement, considering ADCOMS know who is going to show up and who isnt. For the majority of applicants with only one acceptance this makes no difference at all considering they only have one acceptance.
So it sounds like the arguments for multiple acceptance reports are logistical in nature. I wonder if that could be solved by getting rid of the multiple acceptance report as planned, but simply pushing back the national one to let's say June 15th. This would give adcoms ~6 weeks to try to fill whatever drops they get after the April multiple acceptance deadline with strictly the best applicants on their waitlists, independent of predicted yield. then after June 15th they can pick and choose the people that they know will matriculate to fill out any remaining spots before classes start. I would imagine many schools already follow a similar methodology in giving acceptances post-April, but this would ensure adequate time for waitlist movement without the "bias" working against an applicant; all the while still providing the tool to adcoms in the end to make sure class sizes get filled.
 
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Fencer

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The biggest impact is for programs with small classes, for example, MD/PhD programs. There are only 13 programs with 13 or more entering slots; the majority of programs have 5-10 slots. The unevenness of class size will be difficult to deal with. Perhaps, the summer rotations prior to MS-1 might suffer. Many MD/PhD programs begin on June 1. MD/PhD directors are examining the possibility of a MD/PhD match, similar to Texas. Students can exit after the match only to MD programs, or higher ranked MD/PhD programs (by applicant) in their match lists, but at least in this manner, about 80% of the class size for MD/PhD programs would likely be fixed. That would allow better planning for students and MD/PhD directors. We are told that there is an exception in the anti-trust law for the NMRP, and something like this would require legislation.
 

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This could be fallout of a federal probe of LACs that are being investigated by the US Department of Justice for collusion. Story was in the Wall Street Journal on April 12, 2018.
Also here:
The Boston Globe
Amherst, Wellesley, Wesleyan face DOJ early decision investigation - The Boston Globe
I agree. The issue seems to me that colleges offering ED admissions have been sharing with each other the names of the students they admit ED. To apply to a college ED a student, their parent, and a school counselor all have to sign a document acknowledging that an ED admission is binding and that if admitted ED they will withdraw their applications at all other colleges. The problem arises when a student (or the parent) wants to see how many acceptances they can collect and doesn't want to withdraw apps.
In my opinion, it is one of those "but the rules don't apply to me" situations with families trying to game the system or leverage multiple acceptances for more money, prestige, or bragging rights.
Here is an article from Inside Higher Ed, for those who can't access the Boston Globe article:
Justice Department starts investigation of early-decision admissions | Inside Higher Ed
 
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Just sliding in here with a potentially dumb question:

Why can't there be a "traffic rules" day for schools, just like for applicants?

My non-med friends are always startled and kind of appalled that a med school can call you the day before classes start and offer you a spot off the waitlist. I don't see any reason why the med schools can't be given a cutoff day for offers at some point early/mid summer. Like, have traffic rules day for applicants, give two months for WLs to shake out, and have traffic rules day/cutoff for med schools. Is there some big problem to doing this that I'm not seeing? These current ways just seem bizarre and asinine.
 

PreMedMissteps

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I can sympathize with the hypothetical student in meded's post above. Being skipped on the waitlist at a school because they see you're already accepted a few other places sucks for the applicant. Keeping schools blind so they have to admit who they actually prefer, and not factor in yield, can only make things more meritocratic.
Yes, that is a very good point. However, I’m guessing that this is more a problem for those hankering for the top meds. Don’t know if they also skip those already accepted. I know someone who was literally driving to a top med on the west coast in the summer and found out he’d come off Harvard’s WL. He turned his car around, went home and repacked his clothes, and flew out to MA.

I guess the old way which helps protect yield was also an attempt to shorten an already long process of seating a full class. Even if yield isn’t a ranking metric, a higher yield just takes less time. And time is money. It’s already crazy with students coming off WLs in late July or even first week of august...even after white coat ceremonies and orientation.
 

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I honestly think this is probably a net positive or neutral for applicants. a PITA for adcoms and admissions deans tho.
 

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efle

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I honestly think this is probably a net positive or neutral for applicants. a PITA for adcoms and admissions deans tho.
I have a strong suspicion that schools which hand out a lot of large merit scholarships at the end of the cycle (like Northwestern, or Penn) look at the multiple acceptance report and target students they think they are most likely to lose. So this might change who gets the merit money, could be bad news for someone holding killer admits that really just wants to go somewhere for free. That's not a very big group of people though.

For most cases I think this is good for the applicants though, yeah. A school knowing you are a low-yield person to offer admission to is only going to hurt your chance of getting that offer.
 
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DubbiDoctor

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they do, im not sure if it is the same algo. The only thing that I dont know how would work would be unexpected withdrawls or defferments. Would there be a soap?
Imagine frantically trying to SOAP into med school, and getting one of the seats lost to someone else who matriculated but then got off another waitlist and went there.
 
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So @Med Ed and @LizzyM what are the likely changes we see in the upcoming cycle from this?

1) Scholarships awarded truly on merit, not on recruiting away from peers and
2) much more hectic waitlist motion since schools can no longer see how many in the original admit group will likely go elsewhere?
I think the world of LOIs is going to do a 180, with some schools (particularly mid/low tier private ones with 8,000+ applicants) inviting more correspondence.
If this change sticks, over the next few years I expect a marked expansion of guaranteed-entry programs. The most efficient admissions cycle is one that's over before it starts.
Scholarships have been gently drifting away from merit and towards need, and this might accelerate that change.

We shall see.
 
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hipsnontrad

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I can just imagine my wily old Admissions dean saying "now they know what we have to go through."

I surmise that schools that currently waitlist most of their interviewees will have to now give out more acceptances.

Schools will also have to have a bigger wait list pool to draw upon at the end of the year, after seeing how many people turn down accepts.

Schools may also do what a lot of DO schools do, charge a large deposit due some 2-3 weeks after the interview to see who is serious about attending.

Schools may start off being the least selective at the beginning of the cycle, when they interview (on paper at least) the best applicants, and then maybe become less picky if their acceptance and withdrawal rates are not optimal.

At my school, we have local alternates on the wait list who attend the first day or two of classes to make sure that if anyone balls on those days, we have people ready to pull. Kinda like jury alternates. I suspect that this will be less of a problem given the local MD can't poach our kids after they matriculate.
This is interesting, I wonder if schools will accept more EDP applicants, or if there will be more students using EDP.

I think large deposits would change things a bit, but I can also see applicants just applying to fewer schools and counting on the process being expensive. As it is people applying to 10 schools can get super expensive real quick.

It would also be cool to have a similar process to the match system, though I don’t think it would work well with the multiple systems involved, MD, Texas MD, and DO. Everyone finds out Jan 15th.

The local alternate list you described terrifies me. I suppose the students accepted at that time are stoked to go to med school, but that is still a lot to change/figure out in a small amount of time that is going to be super busy and stressful.
 

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Furthermore, the prohibition on schools accepting students who have already matriculated at other schools will be dissolved.
Wait... what?! Say I'm an M1 at my state school and hate it. I can now reapply through AMCAS and potentially matriculate at another institution and repeat the M1 year? I don't know who would take advantage of such a system... seems like a lot of debt.
 
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PreMedMissteps

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My non-med friends are always startled and kind of appalled that a med school can call you the day before classes start and offer you a spot off the waitlist. I don't see any reason why the med schools can't be given a cutoff day for offers at some point early/mid summer. Like, have traffic rules day for applicants, give two months for WLs to shake out, and have traffic rules day/cutoff for med schools. Is there some big problem to doing this that I'm not seeing? These current ways just seem bizarre and asinine.
Are you suggesting that med schools should not be able to fill empty seats once a certain summer date passes? That’s not a good idea. Med schools want to seat a full class. Some already know that they’re going to lose a student or two after the first week or two of classes. They don’t want a worse situation by not starting short of a couple of students.

There can be a domino effect when it comes to seats opening up from June on. A Northwestern-bound MS1 comes off Harvard’s WL in June, so he declines NU and accepts H. Now, NU has an opening and accepts a USC-bound student. Now USC has an opening and accepts a MCW bound student. Now MCW has an opening and accepts...... and on and on until someone comes off the WL and has no other acceptances.
 

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Wait... what?! Say I'm an M1 at my state school and hate it. I can now reapply through AMCAS and potentially matriculate at another institution and repeat the M1 year? I don't know who would take advantage of such a system... seems like a lot of debt.
No, not someone who has already been in school for a year. I think this refers to making offers right at the end of the application season June/July. So a school whose class begins in late July could possibly poach a desired student who had already begun classes at his school in June.
 
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LizzyM

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A friend is on the waitlist at a masters degree program at an art school. Same deal... he was told he can be called off the waitlist until the day classes begin.

It could be that medical schools will try to take one or two more than they really want so as not to go under their ideal minimum by orientation day if there is any "melt" (loss of students who have accepted the offer but then drop out to go elsewhere or do something else).
 
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BombsAway

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Mar 17, 2016
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At my school, we have local alternates on the wait list who attend the first day or two of classes to make sure that if anyone balls on those days, we have people ready to pull. Kinda like jury alternates.
That is Bond-villain level cruelty if i've ever heard it. You take a couple local kids and dangle the medical school carrot in front of them until you're super sure you aren't short on tuition payers? Who picks up the pieces of their shattered dreams? Do you offer exit counseling???
 

Blanky

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That is Bond-villain level cruelty if i've ever heard it. You take a couple local kids and dangle the medical school carrot in front of them until you're super sure you aren't short on tuition payers? Who picks up the pieces of their shattered dreams? Do you offer exit counseling???
This is not cruel. They obviously had no other options for medical school. You think it is a better option to have an empty seat and a person sitting at home that could have be a doctor?

What if two people drop and now you have two people that just became doctors that had no acceptances before and one kid who has to go home who never had an accept anyways.

I'll agree it would be terrible to be in that situation, but I wouldn't blame the school for being efficient.