The 4.0 Paradox??

[superdevil]

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DISCLAIMER: i am in NO WAY bragging here. i have a serious question and want some serious input!

ok, so i just finished fall quarter of my junior year. i am a bio major at Dime-a-Dozen State Univ., and i have a 4.0 gpa. when i first started as a pre-med, i thought it would be really cool to graduate with a 4.0, but lately, i'm not so sure...

i know that most med schools will overlook a sub-par gpa if a stellar MCAT is included, but the reverse is not true. if i have a 4.0, what score do i need on the MCAT to "justify" my gpa??? for whatever its worth, i took the practice MCAT on the AAMC's website cold-turkey (i don't remember the number, but its the free one) and got a 28. i am also enrolled in the princeton review's MCAT courses, as i will be taking the test in april. hopefully, i'll get a thirty-something after my hard work.

oh, and about my classes; i've already taken upper-level courses in physiology, philosophy, and immunology (and i'll be adding pharmacology in the spring), for the purpose of enjoyment and to show some kind of "academic well-roundedness," or something. what do i have to do to prove that the gpa isn't a fluke?

also, i have a social life, in case someone was going to play that card. i guess i'm just good at schoolwork. go figure.

lastly, i want some thoughts on this: when i went to my pre-med advisor, i asked her about my chances at Dime-a-Dozen SOM. she looked at my transcript (which includes lots of research) and concluded, "if you want to go here, you might want to mix in a couple of B's." WTF? that seemed strange to me, even though my state school is fanatical about primary care, not research, gpa, etc.

so, any help/insight you guys have to give would be most welcome!

 

[BigRedPingpong]

Beware:

Troll gunner undercover.

 

[Optimist]

I find it quite hilarious that a 4.0 is starting to look like a weakness now to med schools.

The reason some schools may reject people with super-high stats, is because they assume that such people will get into the more "prestigious" schools, and choose them instead. During interviews, just make it clear how much you like the school, and emphasize its strengths. It'll make up for any stigma they may associate with a high gpa.

As for getting an MCAT score that is "appropriate" for your gpa, I don't think you need to worry about this at all. All sorts of people get into med school, and I don't think many schools "expect" a certain MCAT with a certain gpa. A 3.5 and a 30 might "match" perfectly, but 4.0 and a 30 is still far superior.

 

[ice_23]

Dude man, chill.

A 4.0 is awesome. It is very unlikely that some school will reject you because of this (I would think that you would at least get an interview).

You don't need to "justify" your Mcat score based on your GPA. Just get one as high as possible and don't stress about it. like the prev. post said, a 4.0 and a 30 is better than a 3.0 and a 30.

You've got one phase of the game won (gpa). Now quit stresssin about that and work on other parts of your life that need a fixin' 🙂

-Ice

 

[fava]

a low gpa might devalue high grades a little, but still, higher grades are always preferable. just do your best and don't stress so much!

 

[rgporter]

I wish I knew, I didn't have what it takes to get a 4.0 at my dime-a-dozen state school. I busted my hump and squeked by with a 3.85.
I did however take the real MCAT cold turkey 3 years after I graduated and did much better than I ever could have hoped. I wouldn't recommend it, I only did it that way because I was unsure I had what it takes to do well in med school so long after graduating. The MCAT was a test to help me evaluate myself as much as it was for the admissions committee. What's my point? I have no idea.
Actually my point is this, I don't know what makes for a successful MCAT score but it is not always what causes a perfect 4.0 GPA. I think the GPA should weigh more since it represents more than just raw test taking ability. Unfortunately I don't think it is. So what can a person do? I suggest the following, disregard kaplan diagnostic tests, they are designed to scare you into giving up $1300. Pay $80 and take the AMCAS online tests, they are amazingly accurate at predicting your score. If you do not do as well as you would like DO NOT pay the money for a prep course. Find one to help your reading speed and comprehension, and study the science materials on your own. Your reading skills are what make the biggest difference on this test, even the science sections. I know because I didn't prepare at all and I scored rediculously well. The only thing I did was what I've always done: devour a lot of crappy (and some not-so-crappy) sci-fi books. I read often, and fast. That made all the difference for the MCAT.
Good luck, I wish you all well.

 

[superdevil]

thanks for the replies, folks (except for BigRedPingpong--i just wanted some other viewpoints, what the hell?).

really, i'm not that "stressed," just a little confused. 'spose i'll get over it, though.

thanks
SD

 

[superdevil]

oh, and by the way, rgporter, the test i took was an AAMC test, not kaplan, if that's what you were implying.

 

[spumoni620]

nonononono. please don't "try to get a few b's" for the sake of improving your chances at xyz school. come on, does that really make sense? just do your best. with a 4.0 gpa you likely have the skill and ability to ace the mcat...focus on strategy, timing, pace, etc. etc.. and don't create problems where there are none...

 

[bosco]

Originally posted by superdevil
when i went to my pre-med advisor, i asked her about my chances at Dime-a-Dozen SOM. she looked at my transcript (which includes lots of research) and concluded, "if you want to go here, you might want to mix in a couple of B's."

She's been hitting the crack pipe again! I've learned to take everything "premed" advisors say with a grain of salt. "Do your best" and just work hard and you'll be fine. Sounds like you have a lot going for you.

 

[ice_23]

Originally posted by rgporter
...If you do not do as well as you would like DO NOT pay the money for a prep course.

I must respectfully offer another opinion on this matter (just so that OP hears both sides, no disrespect to rg 🙂).

I took TPR and it absolutely made the difference in my score (it jumped by 15 points from diag to actual). I just want to let you know that these prep courses, if you work hard and do what they say (doing some extra tests wouldn't hurt) can really work out in the end.

I would suggest looking at if you have the time to put together a comprehensive enough study guide for yourself to prepare for the MCAT; otherwise I'd strongly urge you to consider a prep course (or, if you're awesome enough and have friends, borrow their books and see if it is something you could handle studying on your own). If you believe you have the discipline, then don't take the course. I, for one, know how much I needed the discipline of going to class, and the peace of mind knowing that I was studying something that was time tested to work for many ppl.

Just my 2 centz 🙂

-Ice

 

[R_C_Hutchinson]

wow. the day has come when someone is stressing over a 4.0.

where are the plagues and locusts?

seriously man, a 4.0 is a big asset. period. like the other guy said, if you get rejected because of your GPA it's because they thought you'd pass them over for a better school and didnt wanna waste the acceptance on a ninja like yourself. your GPA shows commitment and focus over a long period of time, and it shows that you are a very hard worker. As for the MCAT- dont stress until AFTER you take the test. a 28 now could be a 45 on test day. all that score means is that you need to hit the books before the MCAT- with a 4.0 that should be something you're familiar with. I always think its funny when people lose their **** over a diagnostic (im not speaking specifically about you); a low diagnostic score just means more studying before the test. that's it.
Seriously, hats off to you. as a lowly 3.7 i can say i realize and respect everything it takes to get that kind of a stat, and also doubt that i could do it myself. if you truly are as well rounded as you say you are, you will be fine. be sure to drink one for me when you're accepted and you can let that 4.0 slip a bit...

 

[jlee9531]

well if you do get a low mcat score....

it only shows the adcoms that your school was not as rigorous as other schools....where students may graduate with much lower gpas but have higher mcats.

the mcats is a nice equalizer for the people who attend a more rigorous school and get lower gpas....

but you just need to get the best score as possible so that both your gpa and mcat will not cause any doubts about you as an applicant.

dont do the B thing...like your premed advisor said. its sad to say we at sdn do a better job than so called premed advisors...the "experts"

so good luck on mcats yo...

 

[Lorae]

If you got a 28 on the first practice you did, then my guess is that you will hit a 38(ish) on the MCAT. A 10 point increase is quoted by Princeton Review as being the average... and it certainly was true for me.

And do NOT dumb yourself down to get into a school - be proud of your GPA!!

 

[indianboy]

I've had a theory about this: Getting a 4.0 does not emphasize 'the struggle' of college, nor the academic rigor - it was clearly too easy. I propose that people do gravitate/are impressed by certain GPA's more than others though they may be very similar objectively.

The following list is GPA's in order of highest and most impressive sounding:

3.98
3.97
3.96
3.93
[even numbers below 5 and multiples of 5 suck]
3.87
3.86
3.83
[repetition in 3.88 is up for debate]
3.79
3.78
3.76
3.73
[the odd, prime number 7 clearly helps ones case]

and so on.

For those students in highschool: map out the courses you will take all 4 years, and the grades you will get in them in order to get the cumulative score you desire above. Don't screw up.

Hope that Helps

P 'is for Precision' ShankOut

 

[dara678]

To the OP --

Besides all those fantastic science classes, I would recommend taking some humanities (especially upper level) as well. You've shown that you can do well in science, but it's important to show that you have that "human" factor as well -- not just in EC's, but in learning in other areas. It's great to be balanced, and gives you something to talk about in the interview.

 

[Gbemi24]

Originally posted by Lorae
If you got a 28 on the first practice you did, then my guess is that you will hit a 38(ish) on the MCAT. A 10 point increase is quoted by Princeton Review as being the average... and it certainly was true for me.

That is absolutely false. The higher your initial diagnostic score, the harder it is to do much better on the real thing. According to your (or TPR's) theory, a person who scores a 35 on the diagnostic would most likely score a 45. That is preposterous. Those who go up 10 points are usually those who start in the teens or low 20's. It is definitely possible to go from a 28 to 38 and people have done it in the past, but it is not anywhere near as likely as going from a 20 to a 30.

 

[nrosigh]

I'll give you some of my B's if it'll make you feel better - I've got plenty. Then you can relax...

 

[topherius]

hmm. first off, i'd say don't freak about a 28 on the aamc diagnostic. one of my friends shot a 23 on her kaplan diagnostic and then ripped a 38 on the real deal. another got a 38 after never scoring higher than 30 on the practices. of course, i've always thought that kaplan makes their tests harder so that everyone will go up some...(which seems to work for everyone except me. i actually dropped from my highest practice scores, which i'm still wondering about.)

and on this 4.0 business. i have to echo the general sentiment and say chill. you are going to be fine. a 4.0 means you worked hard, especially if you took some tough classes. as someone else suggested, if you have room in you schedule, take some humanities classes just to show that you're well rounded. i have a theory that that may be one reason 4.0ers get turned down sometimes...they're perceived as unidimensional. plus, who knows--if you're mainly strong in science, taking some humanities might get you one of those coveted Bs.

ha ha. i'm just kiddin'. i'm sure you'd ace them too.

 

[Super Rob]

Fellow Super 🙂

Take the classes you want to take and do the best you can. If you end up with a 4.0 then so be it (you'll actually have an easier time filling out AMCAS... if that's any incentive).

But to "Mix in a few 'B's"??? Perhaps I misunderstood you or your advisor but it sounds FOOLISH to intentionally sacrifice your grade point average to please someone else. I would bet that she was joking around with you... it's like when someone looks at your transcript and says, "All 'A's, how boring." That doesn't mean you should run out and flunk your next O-Chem exam for shiz and giggles 🙂

If you are a really smart person and you have a high gpa, AND you attend a University that YOU think carries less weight with admissions committees than others... take this opportunity to score high on the MCAT and PROVE that you AND your undergraduate university have what it takes to produce an exceptional doctor... at least in an academic sense.

If someone scores a 28 on III-R without any sort of preparation, I predict they will kick some serious butt on the real thing, as long as they are serious about doing well.

If you have a clinical background, you will be an interview magnet! KEEP PLUGGING and GOOD LUCK!!!!

 

[elias514]

Med school AdComs HATE people with a 4.0 GPA. Take a look at the MSAR statistic for matriculants according to GPA. If you look closely at the curve, you'll notice that NOONE with a 4.0 GPA gets in. You better screw up, dude--and mighty fast.