The Age of Anti-Ambition

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Millennial here - I’ll chime in with my thoughts. Millenials like to say we prioritizes happiness- yet we are the generation with highest rates of anxiety, depression and suicide. So, no, we have not struck the correct balance with finding “happiness”. We also are behind prior generations in financial savings/investments. Together, we are essentially failing at work-life balance - depressed and broke.
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With the highest rates of adderall, etc use… a drug that causes anxiety, depression, insomnia… that leads to ambien and benzo use…. It doesn’t kill people quickly which is the only reason it hasn’t gained the notoriety of OxyContin… but it’s as bad.
When I’m not at the trauma hospital I get some nice days at the plastic surgery center… most of the patients under the age of 35 are on adderall or the like. It’s f—- speed but somehow doctors have whored themselves out, big pharma profits and the government looks the other way.
My step kid is on it, and she complains she’s anxious and can’t sleep…. She drinks on it. On this one big pharma is complicit but they all keep taking it- and not as they’re told… I’ve seen the bottle with the don’t take with alcohol sticker.
Keeps the weight off I’m told.

I had one plastics patient- young successful lawyer- taking huge doses… she stayed up for 3 days in a row and caused herself seizures and yet can find a doctor to prescribe it or get it off the streets.

Up down up down up down… pharmacological bipolar disorder.
 
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amyl said:
With the highest rates of adderall, etc use… a drug that causes anxiety, depression, insomnia… that leads to ambien and benzo use…. It doesn’t kill people quickly which is the only reason it hasn’t gained the notoriety of OxyContin… but it’s as bad.
When I’m not at the trauma hospital I get some nice days at the plastic surgery center… most of the patients under the age of 35 are on adderall or the like. It’s f—- speed but somehow doctors have whored themselves out, big pharma profits and the government looks the other way.
My step kid is on it, and she complains she’s anxious and can’t sleep…. She drinks on it. On this one big pharma is complicit but they all keep taking it- and not as they’re told… I’ve seen the bottle with the don’t take with alcohol sticker.
Keeps the weight off I’m told.

I had one plastics patient- young successful lawyer- taking huge doses… she stayed up for 3 days in a row and caused herself seizures and yet can find a doctor to prescribe it or get it off the streets.

Up down up down up down… pharmacological bipolar disorder.
Click to expand...

Isn’t that just modernity summed up, though? Everyone looking for a quick fix. There’s a pill for everything…pain, anxiety, depression, you name it. We’re afraid to examine how our culture and diet are causing these ills because there is too much money to be made from it as well as money from the “solutions” to problems caused by modernity. It’s a never-ending cycle of ****. As a pretty orthodox atheist, sometimes I think that maybe the Buddha was on to something. Getting rid of wants and needs is the only way to achieve actual satisfaction in life. Maybe all the kids quitting and learning to live with less is actually a glimmer of hope for our society? Probably not. We’re all doomed to live a miserable existence of chasing that next desire until that final day when our corpse begins the process of rotting back into the ground.
 
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amyl said:
With the highest rates of adderall, etc use… a drug that causes anxiety, depression, insomnia… that leads to ambien and benzo use…. It doesn’t kill people quickly which is the only reason it hasn’t gained the notoriety of OxyContin… but it’s as bad.
When I’m not at the trauma hospital I get some nice days at the plastic surgery center… most of the patients under the age of 35 are on adderall or the like. It’s f—- speed but somehow doctors have whored themselves out, big pharma profits and the government looks the other way.
My step kid is on it, and she complains she’s anxious and can’t sleep…. She drinks on it. On this one big pharma is complicit but they all keep taking it- and not as they’re told… I’ve seen the bottle with the don’t take with alcohol sticker.
Keeps the weight off I’m told.

I had one plastics patient- young successful lawyer- taking huge doses… she stayed up for 3 days in a row and caused herself seizures and yet can find a doctor to prescribe it or get it off the streets.

Up down up down up down… pharmacological bipolar disorder.
Click to expand...

I dont think you can blame Adderall for what is going on with society today. It js a symptom not the underlying cause. And talking about pharmacological abuse most opioid addicts are baby boomers not millenials. And so many grannies and gramps are on benzos.
 
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coffeebythelake said:
I dont think you can blame Adderall for what is going on with society today. It js a symptom not the cause. And talking about pharmacological abuse most opioid addicts are baby boomers not millenials. And so many grannies and gramps are on benzos.
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How dare you slander the greatest generation after all they have done for you you lazy millennial!
 
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anbuitachi said:
i agree with you. however i also mentioned hours worked in one of my posts. i think i said USA ranks about average in # of hours worked. at like avg of 37 hrs a week or something like that.

but even that is just part of the picture. agree with how you define that. when i first came to this country, school was about just as long as where i came from in terms of HOURS, but the time being used is super inefficient. i still believe the same thing 30 years later, with work and everything. people here may work average # of hours, but efficiency at work is garbage (still better than Europe i guess) and yes its a Personal opinion. a lot of breaks, chatting, using phone for non work purposes, etc.

in the end, i think most people are the "same" at birth. how they turn out is a combination of a lot of factors, and i guess we just have to make the best of it
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Just because my hours 'average' out to 37h/ week (which obviously they don't and would be more than that), doesn't mean I have the energy to go to the gym after an 11+h workday where I'm predominantly on my feet. Maybe in my week off, I hit the gym every other day because I have the energy for it... that doesn't help my average amount of exercise time and I would be considered lazy because of it? This ain't it my guy.
 
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nimbus said:
That’s why it’s good to have purely productivity based compensation. More shifts/hours/holidays/intensity/units=more pay. Millenials are not lazy at all with the right incentives. I’ve seen millenials work like dogs. So much so that my group has implemented rules against over working and getting adequate rest.
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Those YouTube videos don't make themselves. I'm saying this both "tongue-in-cheek" and 100% serious. Good Youtube/TikTok feeds that actually generate money are a full time job.
 
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amyl said:
With the highest rates of adderall, etc use… a drug that causes anxiety, depression, insomnia… that leads to ambien and benzo use…. It doesn’t kill people quickly which is the only reason it hasn’t gained the notoriety of OxyContin… but it’s as bad.
When I’m not at the trauma hospital I get some nice days at the plastic surgery center… most of the patients under the age of 35 are on adderall or the like. It’s f—- speed but somehow doctors have whored themselves out, big pharma profits and the government looks the other way.
My step kid is on it, and she complains she’s anxious and can’t sleep…. She drinks on it. On this one big pharma is complicit but they all keep taking it- and not as they’re told… I’ve seen the bottle with the don’t take with alcohol sticker.
Keeps the weight off I’m told.

I had one plastics patient- young successful lawyer- taking huge doses… she stayed up for 3 days in a row and caused herself seizures and yet can find a doctor to prescribe it or get it off the streets.

Up down up down up down… pharmacological bipolar disorder.
Click to expand...
This is a weird place to take this conversation. I have been on adderall for over a decade and it works for me. The anxiety is present with or without it. And I don't then use other pharmacological agents to deal with any side effects. My sleep and mood are at baseline. Sure, you can find people that abuse medications, but you also have a significant population that uses them as intended.
 
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What about people who don't abuse it but use it to improve their results? Like a lot of people use Adderall for concentration. It was rampant in college. I never used so idk how it feels like. Then doesn't it become like coffee? As long as not addicted and harmful effects?
 
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anbuitachi said:
What about people who don't abuse it but use it to improve their results? Like a lot of people use Adderall for concentration. It was rampant in college. I never used so idk how it feels like. Then doesn't it become like coffee? As long as not addicted and harmful effects?
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Never used it before but know plenty of my med school classmates did. "Helped with focus" almost like a cheat code.
 
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anbuitachi said:
What about people who don't abuse it but use it to improve their results? Like a lot of people use Adderall for concentration. It was rampant in college. I never used so idk how it feels like. Then doesn't it become like coffee? As long as not addicted and harmful effects?
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There have been studies that taking it for 'cognitive enhancement' in people that don't actually have ADD/ADHD may actually be detrimental. If someone's performance is 'enhanced' by taking it, maybe they suffer from some baseline inattention and would benefit from the medication. I knew people in college that used it to stay awake during 'all nighters' prior to exams, but it didn't really seem to improve their performance.

Does Adderall Make You Smarter?

Adderall May Not Make You Smarter, But It Makes You Think You Are
"Interestingly, those who have the least ability in a particular area are likely to see the greatest drug-related improvement. In fact, on some tests of cognition, the smartest people actually showed performance reductions, a result that may address some of the concerns over “cheating”: on tasks involving working memory and impulsivity, stimulants had a leveling effect, allowing below-average performers to catch up to their peers, not dominate them. According to Farah, the typical student user is actually not the overachieving brainiac but a “white male frat brother with a B average.”
 
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ItBurnsInMyHand said:
There have been studies that taking it for 'cognitive enhancement' in people that don't actually have ADD/ADHD may actually be detrimental. If someone's performance is 'enhanced' by taking it, maybe they suffer from some baseline inattention and would benefit from the medication. I knew people in college that used it to stay awake during 'all nighters' prior to exams, but it didn't really seem to improve their performance.

Does Adderall Make You Smarter?

Adderall May Not Make You Smarter, But It Makes You Think You Are
"Interestingly, those who have the least ability in a particular area are likely to see the greatest drug-related improvement. In fact, on some tests of cognition, the smartest people actually showed performance reductions, a result that may address some of the concerns over “cheating”: on tasks involving working memory and impulsivity, stimulants had a leveling effect, allowing below-average performers to catch up to their peers, not dominate them. According to Farah, the typical student user is actually not the overachieving brainiac but a “white male frat brother with a B average.”
Click to expand...

The whole 'cheating' mentality was something that made me hesitant to seek treatment and medication in particular regarding my issues with inattention. At the end of the day, I decided it was my struggle and if it helped me, then I should try. I started taking it in my last year of medical school and it helped with both my focus and impulsivity. I didn't do any better on STEP 3 once I started residency, but at least when I sat down to study, my brain wasn't in 12 places at once. As a result, I was able to find better balance with studying/ work/ exercise/ personal time because it made my study time more efficient vs spending 3x as long trying to retain information, if that makes sense to anyone following at this point.
 
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ItBurnsInMyHand said:
The whole 'cheating' mentality was something that made me hesitant to seek treatment and medication in particular regarding my issues with inattention. At the end of the day, I decided it was my struggle and if it helped me, then I should try. I started taking it in my last year of medical school and it helped with both my focus and impulsivity. I didn't do any better on STEP 3 once I started residency, but at least when I sat down to study, my brain wasn't in 12 places at once. As a result, I was able to find better balance with studying/ work/ exercise/ personal time because it made my study time more efficient vs spending 3x as long trying to retain information, if that makes sense to anyone following at this point.
Click to expand...

I have major concentration issues. I'd have to read every sentence like 5 times. Made it very difficult in med school since studying took long time and I can't keep up in PBLD because there a time limit on reading stem. I thought about Adderall but never end up using it
 
I think USA is still one of the best if not best country for immigrants looking to work hard and make a good living.

The nanny rate here is 25 dollars a hr for English speakers with prior experience. That's a lot of money!!
 
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anbuitachi said:
I think USA is still one of the best if not best country for immigrants looking to work hard and make a good living.

The nanny rate here is 25 dollars a hr for English speakers with prior experience. That's a lot of money!!
Click to expand...
Your two sentences are contradicting each other. Immigrants vs English speaking nannies.
 
amyl said:
With the highest rates of adderall, etc use… a drug that causes anxiety, depression, insomnia… that leads to ambien and benzo use…. It doesn’t kill people quickly which is the only reason it hasn’t gained the notoriety of OxyContin… but it’s as bad.
When I’m not at the trauma hospital I get some nice days at the plastic surgery center… most of the patients under the age of 35 are on adderall or the like. It’s f—- speed but somehow doctors have whored themselves out, big pharma profits and the government looks the other way.
My step kid is on it, and she complains she’s anxious and can’t sleep…. She drinks on it. On this one big pharma is complicit but they all keep taking it- and not as they’re told… I’ve seen the bottle with the don’t take with alcohol sticker.
Keeps the weight off I’m told.

I had one plastics patient- young successful lawyer- taking huge doses… she stayed up for 3 days in a row and caused herself seizures and yet can find a doctor to prescribe it or get it off the streets.

Up down up down up down… pharmacological bipolar disorder.
Click to expand...



I read somewhere that 25-50% of UCLA law students are on adderall. I shudder to think of the long-term effects of that.
 
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nimbus said:
I read somewhere that 25-50% of UCLA law students are on adderall. I shudder to think of the long-term effects of that.
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gotta start from somewhere. imagine how coffee started, now being legalized everywhere instead of being prescription. i wonder if instead of pills, they can make adderall drink, and eventually be legalized... like weed?
 
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I took Ritalin for a year in med school. Improved both my academics and especially my social life tremendously. Built up my confidence too. Then I built up tolerance and was worried about increasing the dose, so I quit taking it. Now I’m back to where I was. I don’t focus as much and my social life isn’t as well.

I did take Adderall for a month. That stuff was way too strong. Gave me headaches.
 
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Dantrolene FC said:
I took Ritalin for a year in med school. Improved both my academics and especially my social life tremendously. Built up my confidence too. Then I built up tolerance and was worried about increasing the dose, so I quit taking it. Now I’m back to where I was. I don’t focus as much and my social life isn’t as well.

I did take Adderall for a month. That stuff was way too strong. Gave me headaches.
Click to expand...

Wonder if it is an issue of too high a dose rather than the medication itself.
 
Dantrolene FC said:
I was on the lower end of dosing. It also calmed me down a lot. Plus I was interrupting people less in conversations. Both socially and in the hospital.
Click to expand...

wow i need some of that. i interrupt people a lot in conversations cause i just get bored of their words and then lose concentration. its a problem. maybe Adderall can help

the problem is with hospital credentially is a HUGE pain with any of controlled substances
 
Dantrolene FC said:
I did take Adderall for a month. That stuff was way too strong. Gave me headaches.
Click to expand...

I tried Adderall once in first year medical school. Read through an entire pulmonary physiology textbook (only about 150 pages) and learned it all in one night. I crashed at about 5am and was entirely useless for the next 24 hours. Never again.

Not sure how some of my friends took it for a month straight when studying for Step 1…
 
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I would think of it another way. The definition of success is changing. Do I need to put in that extra effort/gear at work which compromise family life/personal time for minor pay bump or promotion?
As a millenial, the issue is never with working hard but the exploitation of it for the “gold” at the end of the rainbow that doesn’t materialize to the level of the work
 
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amyl said:
I know it’s anecdotal but will add my personal experience with my millennial step kid. 30, not happy with what she can afford in apartment, and my husband asks me if we can help out. We already pay student loans and cell phone bill. Offered to set her up with a friend who would give her a higher paying job… rep w Medtronic or Stryker, etc. nice $ and a car allowance. She said no… she makes too much money to do nothing at her current job.
We also have an srna now that lies about where she is and ducks out of work whenever she can… a ton of excuses at the ready.
There have always been hard workers and always been lazy people. Sorry but the percentage seems to have shifted towards laziness in the younger generation. That’s my observation.
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My 32yo BIL has a business degree. Didn't bother getting his cpa. Works in a businsss/sales role for a few companies now. Probably makes $50-75k. Last time we went out with them for dinner, my wife is like you should go and become a medical sales rep. (I'm in ortho, so she knows all the trauma and joint reps). In a few years, probably make double what he's doing now.

His answer was they work too hard. He's currently looking for a new job. My other 34yo BIL got his cpa, did the 8 years or so at the big 4, then decided to leave. Now he's a cpa for his like 4th company... Hates his job.. Doesnt know what to do. I told him when he was leaving the big 4, it was a mistake, he was like 6 years from making partner.
 
narcotics999 said:
Maybe people realize that no matter how hard they try, the chance to success is minimal. The decline of social mobility.
Click to expand...

Heist said:
So dont work at all? Don't save money?
Click to expand...

the chance to success is not minimal. maybe its because their expectations do not line up with their effort or reality. i worked my butt off in my life and i consider my self successful in moving from low income class to middle income class after becoming a physician. sure im no where close to millionaire, maybe the burger flippers expect to be millionaires after working 12 hr shifts, i dont know, but IMO USA has LOTS of opportunities to move up.

USA also provides a LOT of benefits to the poor. i work in a very poor neighborhood. many uninsured and undocumented. they get amazing healthcare for a few dollars, UNINSURED. their income is like a couple hundred a week but they can raise like FIVE kids. the government really helps the low income individuals. from housing, to tax credits if needed, food stamps, free/reduced public transportation cards, free schooling, free meals etc
 
I'd like to share my perspective on some of these things. I think alot of younger people have been disillusioned to the American dream due to wage stagnation and inflation. An example is the fact that my wife's a nurse and her mom is as well. 12 years ago my wife's mom was able to pay for a large house and support 2 kids on her income alone. Now new nurses are living with roommates or parents because the amount of loans to get the degree have doubled since then and the average wage of the profession has risen by a few dollars an hour lagging horribly behind inflation and cost of living.

Jobs have been consolidating job duties on a few positions to run with a skeleton crew. You're one job would have been like 3 people's jobs a few decades ago. This combined with the wages and inflation makes younger people say screw it, why play a game that you're intended to lose.

About the Adderall abuse my opinion on that is pretty harsh if you don't have ADD or ADHD. You're abusing amphetamines to give yourself a cognitive advantage. Why should you be able to go to medical school or through it when you have to cheat and do something illegal to do what's expected? How would you feel if you found out the person doing your daughter's brain surgery got through school by snorting lines in the library bathroom?
 
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ChiDO said:
My 32yo BIL has a business degree. Didn't bother getting his cpa. Works in a businsss/sales role for a few companies now. Probably makes $50-75k. Last time we went out with them for dinner, my wife is like you should go and become a medical sales rep. (I'm in ortho, so she knows all the trauma and joint reps). In a few years, probably make double what he's doing now.

His answer was they work too hard. He's currently looking for a new job. My other 34yo BIL got his cpa, did the 8 years or so at the big 4, then decided to leave. Now he's a cpa for his like 4th company... Hates his job.. Doesnt know what to do. I told him when he was leaving the big 4, it was a mistake, he was like 6 years from making partner.
Click to expand...

I was talking to one of those ortho reps the other day and the job doesn’t sound as good as cracked up to be. There is lots of driving back and forth between hospitals and surgery centers. It’s unpredictable schedules, late nights, and unpredictable surgeons. I think there is a reason why the majority of the ortho reps are young men and women. It’s not the best gig if you have a family and kids. Some people actually want to eat dinner with their kids at night.
 
GravelRider said:
I was talking to one of those ortho reps the other day and the job doesn’t sound as good as cracked up to be. There is lots of driving back and forth between hospitals and surgery centers. It’s unpredictable schedules, late nights, and unpredictable surgeons. I think there is a reason why the majority of the ortho reps are young men and women. It’s not the best gig if you have a family and kids. Some people actually want to eat dinner with their kids at night.
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Like physicians? 🙄
 
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coffeebythelake said:
I dont think you can blame Adderall for what is going on with society today. It js a symptom not the underlying cause. And talking about pharmacological abuse most opioid addicts are baby boomers not millenials. And so many grannies and gramps are on benzos.
Click to expand...
And it’s all wrong… not blaming adderall alone… but it’s use is ubiquitous and problematic
 
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amyl said:
And it’s all wrong… not blaming adderall alone… but it’s use is ubiquitous and problematic
Click to expand...

I do not disagree with you. But I do think the "easy fix in a bottle" mentality, the "pain is the 6th vital sign" and patient satisfaction surveys play a significant role in the overprescription of these drugs. Like gravelrider said, this is a symptom of larger problems with modern society. About wants not needs.
 
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ChiDO said:
My 32yo BIL has a business degree. Didn't bother getting his cpa. Works in a businsss/sales role for a few companies now. Probably makes $50-75k. Last time we went out with them for dinner, my wife is like you should go and become a medical sales rep. (I'm in ortho, so she knows all the trauma and joint reps). In a few years, probably make double what he's doing now.

His answer was they work too hard. He's currently looking for a new job. My other 34yo BIL got his cpa, did the 8 years or so at the big 4, then decided to leave. Now he's a cpa for his like 4th company... Hates his job.. Doesnt know what to do. I told him when he was leaving the big 4, it was a mistake, he was like 6 years from making partner.
Click to expand...

wow 6 years from partner and left?? thats millions a year and pension
 
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Proudfather94 said:
I'd like to share my perspective on some of these things. I think alot of younger people have been disillusioned to the American dream due to wage stagnation and inflation. An example is the fact that my wife's a nurse and her mom is as well. 12 years ago my wife's mom was able to pay for a large house and support 2 kids on her income alone. Now new nurses are living with roommates or parents because the amount of loans to get the degree have doubled since then and the average wage of the profession has risen by a few dollars an hour lagging horribly behind inflation and cost of living.

Jobs have been consolidating job duties on a few positions to run with a skeleton crew. You're one job would have been like 3 people's jobs a few decades ago. This combined with the wages and inflation makes younger people say screw it, why play a game that you're intended to lose.

About the Adderall abuse my opinion on that is pretty harsh if you don't have ADD or ADHD. You're abusing amphetamines to give yourself a cognitive advantage. Why should you be able to go to medical school or through it when you have to cheat and do something illegal to do what's expected? How would you feel if you found out the person doing your daughter's brain surgery got through school by snorting lines in the library bathroom?
Click to expand...
what about using caffeine?
 
Proudfather94 said:
Now new nurses are living with roommates or parents because the amount of loans to get the degree have doubled since then and the average wage of the profession has risen by a few dollars an hour lagging horribly behind inflation and cost of living.
Click to expand...

the last 6-18 months, plenty of newer nurses have been travel nursing and getting paid >$100 an hour to do it.
 
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Heist said:
With lots more malpractice risk, education, and loans
Click to expand...

Ok you win.

I’m just saying that someone who is mid-career with a family and kids might not be excited for a job change like that. I didn’t mean to turn it into a pissing match of who has it worse…docs or ortho reps.
 
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