The Age of Anti-Ambition

[Proudfather94]

the last 6-18 months, plenty of newer nurses have been travel nursing and getting paid >$100 an hour to do it.

I'm taking about floor nursing though. I understand that it's a possibility but when the pandemic goes away so will that pay.

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[anbuitachi]

My 32yo BIL has a business degree. Didn't bother getting his cpa. Works in a businsss/sales role for a few companies now. Probably makes $50-75k. Last time we went out with them for dinner, my wife is like you should go and become a medical sales rep. (I'm in ortho, so she knows all the trauma and joint reps). In a few years, probably make double what he's doing now.

His answer was they work too hard. He's currently looking for a new job. My other 34yo BIL got his cpa, did the 8 years or so at the big 4, then decided to leave. Now he's a cpa for his like 4th company... Hates his job.. Doesnt know what to do. I told him when he was leaving the big 4, it was a mistake, he was like 6 years from making partner.

maybe look into coding boot camps. got a friend who did that. boot camp was like 6 months long (was tuition free, but 'competitive' to get in), with further training with reduced salary at actual company for couple of years (to fund the boot camp program), then he's free to go do whatever he wants at normal salary. 4-5 years later working full time, now his total comp ~550k working in established startups, working from home, working regular hours. there are SOOO MANY rich rich "startups" these days. many companies with hundreds of millions of funding, looking to hire coders like CRAZY. once you get hired, its hard to get fired. and even if company collapses in next 10 years, just switch job, and get a raise too. he changes job every 1-2 years for the raise. it's his 4th job in 5 years, everytime he switches, he gets a 50k++ raise

That's way less potent of a stimulant than Adderall and it's legal.

true, but also about dosage. and legality isnt always end all. i definitely jay walked to class before in med school and broke the law, saved myself extra time. but i dont consider myself a cheat for doing so just because i broke the law

 

[pgg]

wow 6 years from partner and left?? thats millions a year and pension

Yeah if he was that bad at math maybe being a CPA wasn't the right career for him.

 

[pgg]

right, one mistake/lack in knowledge like the plastic surgery case and you are looking at PRISON time.
not that many jobs like that.

C'mon

Let's not get hysterical

That guy isn't going to prison because he made a "mistake"

We have malpractice insurance. Most of us will never need it. If we do, that sucks, but that's the end of it. A check gets written by your carrier and you keep on keeping on.

You've got to go way above and beyond the pale of malicious criminal incompetence and negligence before the notion of criminal charges crosses anyone's mind.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

right, one mistake/lack in knowledge like the plastic surgery case and you are looking at PRISON time.
not that many jobs like that.

Police have it worse. Much less pay, much less respect, and much more risk of going to prison.

 

[Proudfather94]

maybe look into coding boot camps. got a friend who did that. boot camp was like 6 months long, with further training with reduced salary at actual company for couple of years, then he's free to go do whatever he wants at normal salary. 4-5 years later working full time, now his total comp ~550k working in startups, working from home. there are SOOO MANY rich rich startups these days. many companies with hundreds of millions of funding, looking to hire coders like CRAZY.


true, but also about dosage. and legality isnt always end all. i definitely jay walked to class before in med school and broke the law, saved myself extra time. but i dont consider myself a cheat for doing so just because i broke the law

I just think that using a controlled substance illegally in order to give oneself an advantage is way worse than jaywalking or speeding. I would argue that abusing Adderall without having an attention deficit disorder should result in being dismissed from college. How do you expect someone who abused controlled substances to be able to responsibly prescribe them to others? You're also giving yourself an unfair advantage because the nature of doing something illegal means you're hoping others don't do it as well.

This do whatever you need to do to make it mentality is what's getting people hurt. It's the same mentality that people like Meeker use to justify practicing out of their scope because they want to fake it until they make it. If one can't get through school without resorting to abusing Adderall they don't need to be a doctor.

 

[anbuitachi]

C'mon

Let's not get hysterical

That guy isn't going to prison because he made a "mistake"

We have malpractice insurance. Most of us will never need it. If we do, that sucks, but that's the end of it. A check gets written by your carrier and you keep on keeping on.

You've got to go way above and beyond the pale of malicious criminal incompetence and negligence before the notion of criminal charges crosses anyone's mind.

i know what you are saying but most jobs even if you mess up real bad or panic, due to whatever reason, lack of good training, sudden memory lapse, not having done intubation or acls in 30 years, it wont end up in prison time.

 

[ChiDO]

I was talking to one of those ortho reps the other day and the job doesn’t sound as good as cracked up to be. There is lots of driving back and forth between hospitals and surgery centers. It’s unpredictable schedules, late nights, and unpredictable surgeons. I think there is a reason why the majority of the ortho reps are young men and women. It’s not the best gig if you have a family and kids. Some people actually want to eat dinner with their kids at night.

Depends on how much they cover, territory, how many reps, ect. Think the 3 total joint reps at the company I used split 6-700k in profit..if not more. The main rep won highest recognition at his company last year for growth, getting a free trip, stock options, bunch of gifts.

It's not a bad gig. Also, all the reps I use have kids ages 0-16

 

[anbuitachi]

I just think that using a controlled substance illegally in order to give oneself an advantage is way worse than jaywalking or speeding. I would argue that abusing Adderall without having an attention deficit disorder should result in being dismissed from college. How do you expect someone who abused controlled substances to be able to responsibly prescribe them to others? You're also giving yourself an unfair advantage because the nature of doing something illegal means you're hoping others don't do it as well.

This do whatever you need to do to make it mentality is what's getting people hurt. It's the same mentality that people like Meeker use to justify practicing out of their scope because they want to fake it until they make it. If one can't get through school without resorting to abusing Adderall they don't need to be a doctor.

i think people do it because like it or not, thats how the real world works in many scenarios. the ones who take the RISKS, often times are the ones who succeed. we may only see the successful ones and not the failures, but they are the ones we see. there are absolutely consequences to using Adderall. possible negative effects on your body, getting fired/suspended etc.

i would say we break "rules" on a daily basis at work.

im pretty good with following the rules/law. maybe thats why im not particularly successful, just average.

 

[anonperson]

i know what you are saying but most jobs even if you mess up real bad or panic, due to whatever reason, lack of good training, sudden memory lapse, not having done intubation or acls in 30 years, it wont end up in prison time.

That plastic surgeon didn't call 911 for hours.

That wasn't a lapse in knowledge or a brain fart.

Straight up criminal action.

I can guarantee that if it was his fault member in the same situation he wouldn't have acted like he did by delaying a 911 call.

 

[anbuitachi]

That plastic surgeon didn't call 911 for hours.

That wasn't a lapse in knowledge or a brain fart.

Straight up criminal action.

I can guarantee that if it was his fault member in the same situation he wouldn't have acted like he did by delaying a 911 call.

who knows whats going on in his mind. perhaps hes just arrogant or dumb and thought the patient just taking longer to wake up and with time will do so. what will he get out of by having a dead patient and not calling 911??? its a terrible judgment / decision. but the crna is also facing criminal charges

 

[anbuitachi]

Police have it worse. Much less pay, much less respect, and much more risk of going to prison.

didnt say physicians have it the WORST. didnt mention police since its not a police forum. there are many problems we have that they dont, high debt, LONG training, no pension, no OT in many instances. they have their own problems too

one of my friends quit his accounting job to be a police officer. hes doing some sanitation police or whatever, he likes it way more than accounting, and the pension after 20 years of work is incredible. he can retire in his 40s, and pursue something else if he wants. he already has 2 kids, and a house in NY, debt free other than mortgage. somehow im doing much worse than he is financially... and my work hours are way worse too. maybe it'll change one day in the future. maybe not

 

[GravelRider]

Depends on how much they cover, territory, how many reps, ect. Think the 3 total joint reps at the company I used split 6-700k in profit..if not more. The main rep won highest recognition at his company last year for growth, getting a free trip, stock options, bunch of gifts.

It's not a bad gig. Also, all the reps I use have kids ages 0-16

Right, but you were saying you BIL could maybe double his salary…so $150k at most? That’s probably busting his butt and taking on a lifestyle he’s not used to. That’s not worth it to a lot of people…I don’t blame them. He’s probably also starting at the bottom with the worst schedules and territories? Money isn’t everything and life is too short to be working more than you need or want to.

 

[pgg]

i know what you are saying but most jobs even if you mess up real bad or panic, due to whatever reason, lack of good training, sudden memory lapse, not having done intubation or acls in 30 years, it wont end up in prison time.

I don't get what you're saying.

Are you suggesting prison time is something any of us should seriously be concerned about?

 

[pgg]

i would say we break "rules" on a daily basis at work.

What do you mean? What rules are you breaking?

 

[anbuitachi]

What do you mean? What rules are you breaking?

i can tell you our hallways have plenty of machines when jhaco isnt around. and when they show up we put them away, the minute they disappear, they are back in hallways again. same with scrubs in hallways. i dont put a whitecoat on every time i walk outside the OR to my office down the hall, when jhaco shows up though, everyone puts them on (huge waste of disposable coats). there's also this rule of no using cell phone for non work purposes in our OR, but that rule is poorly followed. they even blocked MANY websites on the wifi

yes i know there are different level of rules, and then legality but rules are technically still rules.

i can also tell you a lot of our surgical colleagues, or even medical colleges sometimes, put completely bs physical exams. still remember that time when medicine and cards clearance both put RRR no murmur gallops for CV exam. the patient has a clear and obvious murmur. echo with severe stenosis. even my MS3 heard it. i bet none of them even listened with stethoscope. probably listened with their ears from across the room

 

[GassYous]

i can tell you our hallways have plenty of machines when jhaco isnt around. and when they show up we put them away, the minute they disappear, they are back in hallways again. same with scrubs in hallways. i dont put a whitecoat on every time i walk outside the OR to my office down the hall, when jhaco shows up though, everyone puts them on (huge waste of disposable coats). there's also this rule of no using cell phone for non work purposes in our OR, but that rule is poorly followed. they even blocked MANY websites on the wifi

yes i know there are different level of rules, and then legality but rules are technically still rules.

i can also tell you a lot of our surgical colleagues, or even medical colleges sometimes, put completely bs physical exams. still remember that time when medicine and cards clearance both put RRR no murmur gallops for CV exam. the patient has a clear and obvious murmur. echo with severe stenosis. even my MS3 heard it. i bet none of them even listened with stethoscope. probably listened with their ears from across the room

You know those rules aren't actually rules right? They are suggestions made by a bunch of dopes trying to justify their existence by making up bull**** so that they can pretend that their visits have utility. I don't follow any of their nonsense rules and don't even know what they are.

 

[coffeebythelake]

i can tell you our hallways have plenty of machines when jhaco isnt around. and when they show up we put them away, the minute they disappear, they are back in hallways again. same with scrubs in hallways. i dont put a whitecoat on every time i walk outside the OR to my office down the hall, when jhaco shows up though, everyone puts them on (huge waste of disposable coats). there's also this rule of no using cell phone for non work purposes in our OR, but that rule is poorly followed. they even blocked MANY websites on the wifi

yes i know there are different level of rules, and then legality but rules are technically still rules.

i can also tell you a lot of our surgical colleagues, or even medical colleges sometimes, put completely bs physical exams. still remember that time when medicine and cards clearance both put RRR no murmur gallops for CV exam. the patient has a clear and obvious murmur. echo with severe stenosis. even my MS3 heard it. i bet none of them even listened with stethoscope. probably listened with their ears from across the room

You aren't going to prison for any of these examples listed. Medical professionals have a great deal of leeway in terms of things falling within the realm of malpractice without it being criminal. Medical professionals make mistakes, sometimes big ones, without it being criminal. They get charged with a crime only with the absolutely most egregious, purposefully reckless deviations from standards of care. Dr Death for instance. Dr Conrad Murray. And now Dr Geoffrey Kim and CRNA Rex Meeker

 

[anbuitachi]

You know those rules aren't actually rules right? They are suggestions made by a bunch of dopes trying to justify their existence by making up bull**** so that they can pretend that their visits have utility. I don't follow any of their nonsense rules and don't even know what they are.

hospital rules

You aren't going to prison for any of these examples listed. Medical professionals have a great deal of leeway in terms of things falling within the realm of malpractice without it being criminal. Medical professionals make mistakes, sometimes big ones, without it being criminal. They get charged with a crime only with the absolutely most egregious, purposefully reckless deviations from standards of care. Dr Death for instance. Dr Conrad Murray. And now Dr Geoffrey Kim and CRNA Rex Meeker

wasnt implying id go to prison

 

[coffeebythelake]

wasnt implying id go to prison

Your post earlier expressed concern that a "memory lapse," forgetting how to perform ACLS or being unsuccessful intubating would land a medical professional in prison.

 

[anbuitachi]

Your post earlier expressed concern that a "memory lapse," forgetting how to perform ACLS or being unsuccessful intubating would land a medical professional in prison.

forgetting the need to call 911?

actually i dont remember why the crna is going to prison. i know the plastics guy didnt want to call 911. but the CRNA?

 

[coffeebythelake]

forgetting the need to call 911?

actually i dont remember why the crna is going to prison. i know the plastics guy didnt want to call 911. but the CRNA?

Given the available information, i think the case against Dr Kim is a lot stronger than against Rex Meeker. Maybe there are some details that are yet unknown. We don't have the affidavits for Rex meekers arrest warrant, only for Kim's

 

[Mman]

I'm taking about floor nursing though. I understand that it's a possibility but when the pandemic goes away so will that pay.

not bad short term for a 2 year degree

 

[ChiDO]

Right, but you were saying you BIL could maybe double his salary…so $150k at most? That’s probably busting his butt and taking on a lifestyle he’s not used to. That’s not worth it to a lot of people…I don’t blame them. He’s probably also starting at the bottom with the worst schedules and territories? Money isn’t everything and life is too short to be working more than you need or want to.

In a few years make $150k...ya the next few years would suck. And maybe more...but $200k+ is not a bad gig for a generic business degree.

My reps have pretty good lives. You have to like what you do. So worth it versus making $100k or less.

 

[Luvssjeter]

Like physicians? 🙄

Exactly my thought when I read that! Lol