The Ap Program At Cms Has Changed

[ucsb101]

I told you guys something was up.

An email that all AP students got today (Dec 11, 2005)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Faculty, Staff and Students;

We are pleased to announce that the Master of Science in Applied Physiology will transfer from the School of Graduate and Post-Doctoral Studies to the College of Health Professions. Dr. _____ will continue to direct the program. Under its new name, Master of Science in Biomedical Sciences, the program is designed to introduce students to a variety of Healthcare Professions. The program of study includes basic biomedical sciences as before, but also includes the opportunity to receive a certificate in areas such as Healthcare Management. This change will begin with the class admitted in July 2006 and will have no impact on the current AP students.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this means less Medical classes and therefore when graduate students become M1As they will take more medical classes than us APs will when we become M1As.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I dont know what sort of effect this will have on future APs. Would be curious to hear this.

 

[Mperor]

Damn. you posted this fast. My guess is that this is the end of the AP program as we know it, including the 3.0 guarantee. Perhaps it there wil stricter standards for matriculation into the medical program. Or perhaps it will be completely geared towards other fields now.

Note that they say, the program will still retain "Its basic biomedical sciences" I'm thinking that might mean that all CMS classes will be excluded from the program. And if they do accept students into CMS they might just start as regular M1's with a full class load.

This is upsetting as it seems to be the end of a truly unique program, that UCSB101 and I have been the last ones to participate in.

We'll keep prospective applicants updated on to what the new program entails when we find out.

 

[NRAI2001]

Is there any info on what courses students will still take? Will they only take grad courses? Take any med courses? Combo?

Does anyone know if the 3.0 cutoff unoffical rule still stands? Will there be a different cut off taking place?

 

[Mperor]

Is there any info on what courses students will still take? Will they only take grad courses? Take any med courses? Combo?

Does anyone know if the 3.0 cutoff unoffical rule still stands? Will there be a different cut off taking place?

no, like was stated in the previous post... our details are all coming from one email. As soon as we know the exact details of the new program, we'll post it.

 

[NRAI2001]

no, like was stated in the previous post... our details are all coming from one email. As soon as we know the exact details of the new program, we'll post it.

 

[USArmyDoc]

****!! Figures this would happen the year when I apply. If the 3.0 guarrantee is not there anymore, I am not applying.

 

[NRAI2001]

****!! Figures this would happen the year when I apply. If the 3.0 guarrantee is not there anymore, I am not applying.

yea sucks

 

[markboonya]

oh god. why oh why. please let the guarantee stand. otherwise its off to cut throat gtown.

 

[NRAI2001]

oh god. why oh why. please let the guarantee stand. otherwise its off to cut throat gtown.

Yea, will they release that info or will we have to wait till the program beings to learn more?

 

[USArmyDoc]

There is no way I would be going to the program without notification about the 3.0 guarrantee! I don't understand why they even changed it but it could work out in our favor, if they keep the guarrantee.

 

[mommy2three]

as another ap student in the 2005-2006 class i too am saddened to hear of it's end as we know it. although who knows what the details of the future program will be.
while i agree that losing the nod-nod-wink-wink guarantee does indeed suck (big time suck in fact) there are many options out there for those who for whatever reason are lacking in their gpa or mcat (i think i managed to investigate most of them ) and who need to boost their gpa to get into med school.

 

[Mperor]

Here's the scoop guys. I talked to the Dean of the program. The new only med school course that is currently a part of the AP year that will not be part of the new program next year will be genetics. The other course changes are going to be involving graduate courses as a means to give the students a more tangible masters degree (unlike the current AP masters which is pretty much worthless unless you use it to get into medical school)

When I asked about the 3.0 cut off for CMS matriculation he refered me to the office of admissions for the med school. The person I spoke with there became agitated when I asked about the 3.0 cut off and basically told me that there is no cut off and the only reason that all the 3.0+ AP students were allowed in in previous years is because at that point of their decision (late may/june) there was still space left in the M1 class for all the people who graduated with a 3.0 or above from AP and NOT because there is any sort of cutoff mark that guarantees you admission. And that if they filled 100% of their seats with applicants not from the AP program they could hyopthetically deny everyone in the AP program.... even this year.

He also stressed that CMS will be re-evaluating their admissions criteria with the new AP class based on the changes in the program.

Cliff notes: the 3.0 guarantee no longer exists, and it is circumstance that has allowed all former AP's above that mark to matriculate to CMS in the past years. As well as an undecided new admissions policy for the future AP-->CMS aplicants.

Lot's of grey area guys. Quite frankly, now I am even worried about getting in to CMS

 

[USArmyDoc]

Here's the scoop guys. I talked to the Dean of the program. The new only med school course that is currently a part of the AP year that will not be part of the new program next year will be genetics. The other course changes are going to be involving graduate courses as a means to give the students a more tangible masters degree (unlike the current AP masters which is pretty much worthless unless you use it to get into medical school)

When I asked about the 3.0 cut off for CMS matriculation he refered me to the office of admissions for the med school. The person I spoke with there became agitated when I asked about the 3.0 cut off and basically told me that there is no cut off and the only reason that all the 3.0+ AP students were allowed in in previous years is because at that point of their decision (late may/june) there was still space left in the M1 class for all the people who graduated with a 3.0 or above from AP and NOT because there is any sort of cutoff mark that guarantees you admission. And that if they filled 100% of their seats with applicants not from the AP program they could hyopthetically deny everyone in the AP program.... even this year.

He also stressed that CMS will be re-evaluating their admissions criteria with the new AP class based on the changes in the program.

Cliff notes: the 3.0 guarantee no longer exists, and it is circumstance that has allowed all former AP's above that mark to matriculate to CMS in the past years. As well as an undecided new admissions policy for the future AP-->CMS aplicants.

Lot's of grey area guys. Quite frankly, now I am even worried about getting in to CMS

Well, that has about sealed it. I don't even think I am going to waste my time applying.

 

[USArmyDoc]

WTF! Why did they change the program!?!? I am so annoyed! Do they not realize that they are going to lose a lot of applications?

 

[NRAI2001]

This sucks. I guess Drexel and GT look much better programs now. Atleast their masters degrees look a bit better on their own.

 

[USArmyDoc]

This sucks. I guess Drexel and GT look much better programs now. Atleast their masters degrees look a bit better on their own.

I hold two acceptances to osteopathic schools and would much rather go there then risk a year at a program that has the reputation to only help to get into CMS. It doesn't even make sense to go to the program at all. It is not established like the others.

 

[NRAI2001]

I hold two acceptances to osteopathic schools and would much rather go there then risk a year at a program that has the reputation to only help to get into CMS. It doesn't even make sense to go to the program at all. It is not established like the others.

Yea, I dont know how true this is but seems like the only thing the AP program is good for is getting into CMS. Has anyone gotten into other allo schools with AP degree? Did they not need to in the past bc of the 3.0 guarantee?

If there is no guarantee anymore seems like GT would be a better choice.

 

[Mperor]

I would still imagine that RFU is going to have a higher acceptance rate to their med school from their post bac program still then Drexel and Georgetown, even if the program is revised.

 

[Mperor]

Yea, I dont know how true this is but seems like the only thing the AP program is good for is getting into CMS. Has anyone gotten into other allo schools with AP degree? Did they not need to in the past bc of the 3.0 guarantee?

If there is no guarantee anymore seems like GT would be a better choice.

the guarantee hasn't been around for years... its more of an implied truth. Everyone who has gotten above a 3.0 in the past has gotten in and I think that cms is just covering their ass by not guaranting anything incase you get above a 3.0 but are a real jerk in interviews or you get arrested a dozen times your AP year. I have faith that until they make an official statement, deliniating the "3.0 and your in" talk that goes around here, that they will stick to that policy...though not officially

 

[USArmyDoc]

the guarantee hasn't been around for years... its more of an implied truth. Everyone who has gotten above a 3.0 in the past has gotten in and I think that cms is just covering their ass by not guaranting anything incase you get above a 3.0 but are a real jerk in interviews or you get arrested a dozen times your AP year. I have faith that until they make an official statement, deliniating the "3.0 and your in" talk that goes around here, that they will stick to that policy...though not officially

So you think that they are sticking to the 3.0 quasi-guarrantee then? I would really like to know before I get screwed over.

 

[Mperor]

So you think that they are sticking to the 3.0 quasi-guarrantee then? I would really like to know before I get screwed over.

call admissions.... they really dont like saying anything because I think they are afraid of implying a verbal contract. My friend who is an M2 is trying to assure me that admissions is very ambiguous about the "guarantee" every year to avoid a law suit if they don't want to accept you because you are just a complete jerk

 

[the brown note]

call admissions.... they really dont like saying anything because I think they are afraid of implying a verbal contract. My friend who is an M2 is trying to assure me that admissions is very ambiguous about the "guarantee" every year to avoid a law suit if they don't want to accept you because you are just a complete jerk

I think they're extra careful about this, since they've been burned before. They were sued in the 1970's (Steinberg v. Chicago Medical School) for rejecting an applicant who paid the application fee and met the specific entrance criteria printed in their bulletin. The Illinois Court of Appeals sided with Steinberg (1976). After that, CMS (and other schools) was a lot more careful to be more vague in their stated criteria. I'm not sure if the "guarantee" will still hold with the new program or not, but they will try to avoid any appearance of entering into a written or verbal contract regarding a hard-and-fast rule about acceptance with anyone! Understandably, they don't want to be "forced" into accepting a student that might be a poor fit, is disruptive, etc.

Good luck with your decision and the application process!

 

[NRAI2001]

I think they're extra careful about this, since they've been burned before. They were sued in the 1970's (Steinberg v. Chicago Medical School) for rejecting an applicant who paid the application fee and met the specific entrance criteria printed in their bulletin. The Illinois Court of Appeals sided with Steinberg (1976). After that, CMS (and other schools) was a lot more careful to be more vague in their stated criteria. I'm not sure if the "guarantee" will still hold with the new program or not, but they will try to avoid any appearance of entering into a written or verbal contract regarding a hard-and-fast rule about acceptance with anyone! Understandably, they don't want to be "forced" into accepting a student that might be a poor fit, is disruptive, etc.

Good luck with your decision and the application process!

The AP program dates back to 1976 and before?

 

[USArmyDoc]

I think they're extra careful about this, since they've been burned before. They were sued in the 1970's (Steinberg v. Chicago Medical School) for rejecting an applicant who paid the application fee and met the specific entrance criteria printed in their bulletin. The Illinois Court of Appeals sided with Steinberg (1976). After that, CMS (and other schools) was a lot more careful to be more vague in their stated criteria. I'm not sure if the "guarantee" will still hold with the new program or not, but they will try to avoid any appearance of entering into a written or verbal contract regarding a hard-and-fast rule about acceptance with anyone! Understandably, they don't want to be "forced" into accepting a student that might be a poor fit, is disruptive, etc.

Good luck with your decision and the application process!

Thats fine and all, but I would like maybe a wink and a nod saying it is still in place. Hopefully, my allopathic interviews will come through and I'll be done with this.

 

[EctopicFetus]

call admissions.... they really dont like saying anything because I think they are afraid of implying a verbal contract. My friend who is an M2 is trying to assure me that admissions is very ambiguous about the "guarantee" every year to avoid a law suit if they don't want to accept you because you are just a complete jerk

They didnt imply this "guarantee" for me either, and I am now an M4. All that being said we all knew it was the case. It was even mentioned once by the then dean of academic affairs that even if we had a 3.0 but got a C in physio (14 credits) they would not take us.

Here is what I would do as an old wise man. I would call the new AP program and tell them you are thinking of applying and have heard about this change. As such you want to know what courses you will be taking.

Then once you have that info I would call med school admissions, I would ask them that you heard that there was a close tie with the old AP program and that they took a fair number of students from there. Then you ask in light of the changes will this stay the same or not. Do NOT ask about a guarantee or anything like that. Just if they will still take a fair number of students. Unfortunately, this change has occured IMO this is a travesty.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I think they're extra careful about this, since they've been burned before. They were sued in the 1970's (Steinberg v. Chicago Medical School) for rejecting an applicant who paid the application fee and met the specific entrance criteria printed in their bulletin. The Illinois Court of Appeals sided with Steinberg (1976). After that, CMS (and other schools) was a lot more careful to be more vague in their stated criteria. I'm not sure if the "guarantee" will still hold with the new program or not, but they will try to avoid any appearance of entering into a written or verbal contract regarding a hard-and-fast rule about acceptance with anyone! Understandably, they don't want to be "forced" into accepting a student that might be a poor fit, is disruptive, etc.

Good luck with your decision and the application process!

I think the steinberg case related to medical school admission criteria and had nothing to do with the AP program.

There way something similar case in the mid 90's in the AP program where some kid was a complete jackass got the 3.0 and the school did not want to let him in, he sued he won. Then they changed their criteria. Hope this helps.

 

[the brown note]

I think the steinberg case related to medical school admission criteria and had nothing to do with the AP program.

Sorry about the confusion! Yes, this case was for regular medical school admissions. I just thought that the med school in general might be a bit extra-careful of appearing to guarantee anything regarding admissions, including their related programs.

 

[NRAI2001]

They didnt imply this "guarantee" for me either, and I am now an M4. All that being said we all knew it was the case. It was even mentioned once by the then dean of academic affairs that even if we had a 3.0 but got a C in physio (14 credits) they would not take us.

Here is what I would do as an old wise man. I would call the new AP program and tell them you are thinking of applying and have heard about this change. As such you want to know what courses you will be taking.

Then once you have that info I would call med school admissions, I would ask them that you heard that there was a close tie with the old AP program and that they took a fair number of students from there. Then you ask in light of the changes will this stay the same or not. Do NOT ask about a guarantee or anything like that. Just if they will still take a fair number of students. Unfortunately, this change has occured IMO this is a travesty.

So you think the guarantee has changed?

 

[Mperor]

So you think the guarantee has changed?

Its all speculation at this point. But, if they made a huge change from their acceptance standards with the new program, they would have to deliniate from that and basically state before you decided to come that "The acceptance standards from AP to CMS have become more strict" or whatever.

Until then I would persue the program. I think it is a really great opportunity and there is nothing stopping you from doing much, much, better then a 3.0 in it.

 

[EctopicFetus]

So you think the guarantee has changed?

The point is there never was a "guarantee" and if you ask about one you will immediately turn that person off. My way of asking the Q gets you the same answer without putting whoever you are talking to in a defensive position.

If you ask about a guarantee they will say... "there hasnt been a guarantee in over 10 years".

 

[USArmyDoc]

Yea, I am thinking about wording my question like this:

I know that in the past if you maintained a 3.0 GPA, the admissions committee looked upon you very favorably. Would this still be the case despite the changes in the program?

Something to the affect that I don't say there is a guarrantee but allude to a strong connection.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Yea, I am thinking about wording my question like this:

I know that in the past if you maintained a 3.0 GPA, the admissions committee looked upon you very favorably. Would this still be the case despite the changes in the program?

Something to the affect that I don't say there is a guarrantee but allude to a strong connection.

exactly

 

[USArmyDoc]

exactly

Okay, now that we established what to say....Anyone want to call? LOL

 

[EctopicFetus]

My schedule cleared up so I will be at the school Strategy meeting on Jan 31. Ill provide any feedback you guys wish to have. As stated previously I am 100% pro AP.

Why not make up a fake name and email and say you might apply this year and wanted to know. This way you dont have to worry about screwing up anything for yourselves.

 

[USArmyDoc]

My schedule cleared up so I will be at the school Strategy meeting on Jan 31. Ill provide any feedback you guys wish to have. As stated previously I am 100% pro AP.

Why not make up a fake name and email and say you might apply this year and wanted to know. This way you dont have to worry about screwing up anything for yourselves.

You the man!

 

[NRAI2001]

My schedule cleared up so I will be at the school Strategy meeting on Jan 31. Ill provide any feedback you guys wish to have. As stated previously I am 100% pro AP.

Why not make up a fake name and email and say you might apply this year and wanted to know. This way you dont have to worry about screwing up anything for yourselves.

When are apps out anyway?

 

[USArmyDoc]

My schedule cleared up so I will be at the school Strategy meeting on Jan 31. Ill provide any feedback you guys wish to have. As stated previously I am 100% pro AP.

Why not make up a fake name and email and say you might apply this year and wanted to know. This way you dont have to worry about screwing up anything for yourselves.

Just did it!

 

[NRAI2001]

Just did it!

OOooooo your brave.

 

[USArmyDoc]

OOooooo your brave.

I don't think the applications are going to be out for quite a while.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Lemme know how this turns out.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Lemme know how this turns out.

Will do Ectopic!

 

[stuckster]

Will do Ectopic!

With regards to the Chicago Medical School (CMS), the CMS application
process has always been separate from influence by the School of
Graduate and Postdoctoral Studies. All CMS applicants are required to
submit an AMCAS application and undergo a thorough evaluation by the CMS
Admissions Committee. This process is the required for all applicants,
including those enrolled in AP (though the interview had been on a
slightly altered timeline due to class scheduling). Successful
completion of a student's course of study, regardless of discipline, is
always a positive aspect of any professional school application, and
maintenance of a "B" grade point average has always been required for
receipt of the Applied Physiology MS degree. The University does not
guarantee matriculation into CMS for its AP graduates, though. As yet,
my office has not received information from the CMS Admissions Committee
regarding how the students in the Biomedical Sciences program will be
evaluated.

If you would like to visit the campus, we would be delighted to arrange
a tour, but December will probably not be a logical month if you want a
counselling session and not just a tour of the campus. We have been
informed that we will not have further Program details until late
January or early February. Should you have any further questions,
please feel free to submit them. I will be glad to answer with any
information we have or direct your inquiry to the Program Director for a
response.

 

[EctopicFetus]

There is a start. In the end even they dont know. Seems very awkward.

 

[USArmyDoc]

This does not make any sense. I am though starting to get annoyed with RFU. I was told they would have the information out months ago and now I learn not till February. I understand they are making changes but if they can't have the program up and running for this applicaiton cycle it would be nice to at least keep it the same for the class of 06.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Thank you for your email and your interest in Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science (RFUMS). You are correct that the Applied Physiology (AP) program is undergoing revision. We received notification of this on the 12th of December through the President's Office, the College of Health Professions, and the School of Graduate and Postdoctoral Studies. As yet, the curriculum and program structure have not yet been released, but I would be glad to add you to the mailing list of applicants awaiting information.

The curriculum details are not available for distribution, but here is the information that we have been provided thus far. The Applied Physiology Program was previously offered by the Physiology Department in the School of Graduate and Postdoctoral Studies. After the program restructuring, the program will be offered by the College of Health Professions, within the Department of Interprofessional Healthcare Studies, under the same Program Director . This will allow the program to include an opportunity for students to receive a certificate in an area such as Healthcare Management in addition to the core basic biomedical science curriculum. The Program name will change to Biomedical Sciences. The Program changes will not effect currently enrolled Applied Physiology students, but they will take effect with the next matriculating class (Fall 2006).

With regards to the Chicago Medical School (CMS), the CMS application process has always been separate from influence by the School of Graduate and Postdoctoral Studies. All CMS applicants are required to submit an AMCAS application and undergo a thorough evaluation by the CMS Admissions Committee. This process is the required for all applicants, including those enrolled in AP (though the interview had been on a slightly altered timeline due to class scheduling). Successful completion of a student's course of study, regardless of discipline, is always a positive aspect of any professional school application, and maintenance of a "B" grade point average has always been required for receipt of the Applied Physiology MS degree. The University does not guarantee matriculation into CMS for its AP graduates, though. As yet, my office has not received information from the CMS Admissions Committee regarding how the students in the Biomedical Sciences program will be evaluated.

There it is. From the sounds of the email, the 3.0 rule might still stand. When I spoke with her months back she stressed to me the same thing. Her wording was very similiar, finish with a B and it looks VERY strongly in the highs of the adcom.

 

[USArmyDoc]

 

[NRAI2001]

Hey arent you already accepted to a med school? Which one?

 

[USArmyDoc]

Hey arent you already accepted to a med school? Which one?

I have been accepted to four osteopathic schools. However, I believe we spoke before that my goals might be better suited with a MD.

 

[Mperor]

Looks like you guys are getting some more information. And it looks like the major core of the program isn't changing. Hopefully just some of the grad classes (I'm not a fan of the current AP classes).