The current trend

[GiveBackSmiles]

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I was looking on predents.com and was noticing that in comparison to the ADEA Official Guide to Dental Schools 2009, the DAT and GPA averages are significantly higher on predents.com (where the pie graphs are). Is this due to people fudging their GPA and DAT scores a bit to seem more qualified or is there really such a dramatic jump from GPA and DAT averages from last year to this current cycle (entering Fall 2010)? I am entering in Fall of 2011 and am concerned that the standards for admission into dental school has all of a sudden jumped up in competitiveness in terms of both GPA and DAT score. Any thoughts?

 

[Avery07]

I was looking on predents.com and was noticing that in comparison to the ADEA Official Guide to Dental Schools 2009, the DAT and GPA averages are significantly higher on predents.com (where the pie graphs are). Is this due to people fudging their GPA and DAT scores a bit to seem more qualified or is there really such a dramatic jump from GPA and DAT averages from last year to this current cycle (entering Fall 2010)? I am entering in Fall of 2011 and am concerned that the standards for admission into dental school has all of a sudden jumped up in competitiveness in terms of both GPA and DAT score. Any thoughts?

The people you find on pre-dents and on SDN are more serious students than your average pre-dent. I lot of my pre-dental friends on campus don't know about pre-dents or SDN for that matter. These websites just attract the more competitive applicant which is what you see in pre-dent's scores.

Now don't get me wrong, dental school is incresing in competitiveness in GPA and DAT.. I mean an 18 or 19 used to be the magic score but now it's moved on to a 20 or 21. I mean an 18 or 19 can still get you in but.. no one's going to ask questions over the 21 if you get what I'm saying.. assuming the rest of your application is in line of course.

 

[alec0884]

I was looking on predents.com and was noticing that in comparison to the ADEA Official Guide to Dental Schools 2009, the DAT and GPA averages are significantly higher on predents.com (where the pie graphs are). Is this due to people fudging their GPA and DAT scores a bit to seem more qualified or is there really such a dramatic jump from GPA and DAT averages from last year to this current cycle (entering Fall 2010)? I am entering in Fall of 2011 and am concerned that the standards for admission into dental school has all of a sudden jumped up in competitiveness in terms of both GPA and DAT score. Any thoughts?

When you look at sites such as "predents" I hope you do not think you are looking at all the applicants....schools like BU and others receive upwards of 4000 applications and you see only a small handful on this website. Basically the stats listed below with the graphs are an unrepresentative proportion of the entire applicant pool, their statistics generally being higher.

 

[Motivated87]

If you are really concerned about numbers I think your best bet would be to compare the past years on predents.com. I think this is a fair assumption to make that each year the same "type" of students sign up on the site.

 

[The Anhedonia]

because predents.com is entirely voluntary, it is not a representative cross-section of the applicant pool, only the upper echelons (as those with high stats likely feel more comfortable to post).

ADEA figures are accurate as it takes into account everyone.

 

[doc toothache]

Now don't get me wrong, dental school is incresing in competitiveness in GPA and DAT.. I mean an 18 or 19 used to be the magic score but now it's moved on to a 20 or 21. I mean an 18 or 19 can still get you in but.. no one's going to ask questions over the 21 if you get what I'm saying.. assuming the rest of your application is in line of course.

It sounds like you are shooting the numbers from the hips. For 2008, the mean AA of enrollees stood at 19 with 13 ds with means at 20 and above and 3 at 21. It is unlikely that the figures for 2009 and 2010 will be significantly higher.

 

[Avery07]

It sounds like you are shooting the numbers from the hips. For 2008, the mean AA of enrollees stood at 19 with 13 ds with means at 20 and above and 3 at 21. It is unlikely that the figures for 2009 and 2010 will be significantly higher.

Like I said, an 18 or 19 will get you in but no one's going to ask questions about 21. Why chance it? Get the 20+ and get some sleep at night.

 

[dmd87]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/education/edlife/03careerism-t.html

this might be the answer to your question =)

 

[doc toothache]

Like I said, an 18 or 19 will get you in but no one's going to ask questions about 21. Why chance it? Get the 20+ and get some sleep at night.

Actually there is some anecdotal evidence to suggest otherwise. Moreover, it's not like you could simply request a 20+; the number of applicants that achieve a 21 is rather limited.

 

[Avery07]

Actually there is some anecdotal evidence to suggest otherwise. Moreover, it's not like you could simply request a 20+; the number of applicants that achieve a 21 is rather limited.

Do you have a link to this information suggesting otherwise? And no.. you don't simply request your 20+.. you work your tail off like that's the only score that you can get to get IN dental school. And yes.. you're right once again. The number of applicants that achieve a 21 is.. or actually are.. rather limited. It's an elite score thus confirming every point I'm trying to make.

Honestly, it should not be very difficult to get a 21. I believe it's possible from anyone but it comes down to how bad do you want it? Yes you may get in with an 18 or 19 but I don't want to be sitting in the seat of the person obsessing over a waitlist right now.

I'm just saying that's a gurantee for the most part (assuming the rest of your application is in line). For those of us who don't want to doubt or risk sitting out a year.. shoot for that. Everyone else who is into the "average" thing.. go do your thing. I've never tried to be average so maybe I'm missing out on some big party? Can you get residency programs by being average too? I need to look into this..

But hey, who am I to judge. I'll stop my pursuit of perfection and slide by doing the average thing so as to not raise the competition of dental school. 👍

 

[GiveBackSmiles]

Thanks guys. That really makes me feel better about where I stand in the pool of applicants.

 

[doc toothache]

Do you have a link to this information suggesting otherwise? And no.. you don't simply request your 20+.. you work your tail off like that's the only score that you can get to get IN dental school. And yes.. you're right once again. The number of applicants that achieve a 21 is.. or actually are.. rather limited. It's an elite score thus confirming every point I'm trying to make.
Honestly, it should not be very difficult to get a 21. I believe it's possible from anyone but it comes down to how bad do you want it? Yes you may get in with an 18 or 19 but I don't want to be sitting in the seat of the person obsessing over a waitlist right now.
I'm just saying that's a gurantee for the most part (assuming the rest of your application is in line). For those of us who don't want to doubt or risk sitting out a year.. shoot for that.

It is a bit hard to get a link to anecdotal "evidence". Over the past few years, some posts have suggested just that. If you are really passionate about the "evidence" you can go to predents and scroll the interview columns for those that have not been accepted and you will find what you are looking for.

As for the English lesson:
The number (of applicants) that achieve a 21 is.. or actually are.

On the issue of getting a 21, 94.1% of those taking the DAT might argue with your assertion; that darn Bell curve standing in the way.

 

[LudR81]

Like I said, an 18 or 19 will get you in but no one's going to ask questions about 21. Why chance it? Get the 20+ and get some sleep at night.

There is certainly an upward trend regarding AA's, but to some extent, I think that dental schools are just shooting themselves in the foot. Just because someone can make a 20+ doesn't mean they're going to be a good dentist. It may simply mean that they're good at taking tests, or that they're very intelligent. Both of which are not bad things in and of themselves. However, I feel that many people are getting passed over just because they didn't make a 20+. 10 years ago 16 and 17's were the magic numbers, and yet those dentists made it through and I would hardly dare to say they're inadequate dentists. Is this upward trend producing better dentists than previous years? I don't think so. As the rule and not the exception, I feel that it's harming the profession. My dad is dentist so I've been around dentists my whole life, and I'll tell you that there's many dentists that are really smart and really unhappy. You have to pass the boards, I understand that, you don't need a 20+ to do that though, and at the end of the day, a good dentist, great stats does't make. It comes down to heart, motivation, and a genuine care for people needs.

 

[doc toothache]

There is certainly an upward trend regarding AA's, but to some extent, I think that dental schools are just shooting themselves in the foot. Just because someone can make a 20+ doesn't mean they're going to be a good dentist. It may simply mean that they're good at taking tests, or that they're very intelligent. However, I feel that many people are getting passed over just because they didn't make a 20+. 10 years ago 16 and 17's were the magic numbers, and yet those dentists made it through and I would hardly dare to say they're inadequate dentists. Is this upward trend producing better dentists than previous years? I don't think so. As the rule and not the exception, I feel that it's harming the profession. My dad is dentist so I've been around dentists my whole life, and I'll tell you that there's many dentists that are really smart and really unhappy. You have to pass the boards, I understand that, you don't need a 20+ to do that though, and at the end of the day, a good dentist, great stats does't make. It comes down to heart, motivation, and a genuine care for people needs.

You may be right about ds shooting themselves in the foot, however, before we get the lacrimal glands into overdrive lets keep in mind that over 43% of ds enrollees did not achieve that distinction. The unhappy dentists you refer to may be less a result of achieving a 20+ on the DAT and more a result of having chosen the wrong profession or, if you will, the right profession for the wrong reasons.

 

[krnkimsung]

Maybe I'm crazy, but from looking at PreDents.com statistics of those who got rejected actually align with ADEA figures.
Some schools even have similar stats between "attending" & "rejected", which makes me TRULY believe that the number is not everything even though it plays at least 60% role making the 1st cut (??)

I am confused too, but I really hate the current trend with the AVG GPA/DAT compared to last 3-4 years.

 

[license2kill]

Maybe I'm crazy, but from looking at PreDents.com statistics of those who got rejected actually align with ADEA figures.
Some schools even have similar stats between "attending" & "rejected", which makes me TRULY believe that the number is not everything even though it plays at least 60% role making the 1st cut (??)

I am confused too, but I really hate the current trend with the AVG GPA/DAT compared to last 3-4 years.

How bad to you want it? That is the question, so stop worrying and go study!

 

[alanan84]

Just my 2 cents. For those that think getting a 21 means you don't have to sweat it out during the application process, my situation begs to differ.