Any of you guys know how the Dean of your medical schools write their Dean's Letter for you? No Dean can possibly have meaningful relationships with that many students, so what do they put in there thats not already on your transcript?
NNguyenMD said:Any of you guys know how the Dean of your medical schools write their Dean's Letter for you? No Dean can possibly have meaningful relationships with that many students, so what do they put in there thats not already on your transcript?
My basic science years have been pretty rocky, I haven't failed anything but I've passed with minimum scores, and have been flagged by departments warning me to bring up my grades because I found myself in the danger zone of failing class on more occassions than I'm proud of. But I still haven't failed anything, *knock on wood. Do you think the Dean's knowledge of my lackluster basic science years will hurt a lot?Panda Bear said:The Dean's Letter is essentially a form letter. It is used to give a rough sketch of your first three years in medical school and is mostly "boilerplate." It also includes code phrases that alert program directors to any obvious problems.
Additionally, the Dean's Letter contains excerpts from your third year evaluations. No Dean of Students will put any negative comments in your letter but unless you were a superlative third year medical student the comments will be of the usual, bland, unremarkable variety. "So-and-so is a hard worker and appears interested during rounds." "John Doe has good patient skills." Etc. etc.
Unless it is very,very bad or very,very good (both rare occurences) the Dean's Letter will have only a minor impact on your residency interviews. I am a fairly decent student, well liked and respected, but my Dean's letter "damned me with faint praise" more than anything else.
And I am know the Dean of Student's pretty well.
Your letters of reccomendation from your early fourth year rotations are your big money-makers as they are written, ideally, by respected academic physicians who know you well enough to say meaningful positive things about you.
If I am wrong about the Dean's Letter than I am willing to be corrected.
No, at least not from the perspective of anything bad being in your letter. But since most Dean's Letters either explicitly state your class rank or put you into class rank groups ("Joe Smith is in the top third of his class") your low grades will be apparent (I also had low-passing grades but I wouldn't say I was in the "danger zone." I studied as hard as I needed to pass.)NNguyenMD said:My basic science years have been pretty rocky, I haven't failed anything but I've passed with minimum scores, and have been flagged by departments warning me to bring up my grades because I found myself in the danger zone of failing class on more occassions than I'm proud of. But I still haven't failed anything, *knock on wood. Do you think the Dean's knowledge of my lackluster basic science years will hurt a lot?
Actually, all of your third-year rotations' evals go into your Dean's Letter, verbatim. They're not edited out to only include the "positive" comments (otherwise, what would be the point of writing them?). This is the only way the admission committees can see all your evals, in full.Panda Bear said:Additionally, the Dean's Letter contains excerpts from your third year evaluations. No Dean of Students will put any negative comments in your letter
That was very reassuring and helpful Panda, thanks to you and everyone else for the info on the Dean's letter.Panda Bear said:No, at least not from the perspective of anything bad being in your letter. But since most Dean's Letters either explicitly state your class rank or put you into class rank groups ("Joe Smith is in the top third of his class") your low grades will be apparent (I also had low-passing grades but I wouldn't say I was in the "danger zone." I studied as hard as I needed to pass.)
Most of the Dean's letter deals with third year so if you get good clinical grades and good evaluations you will be all right. Hell, even if you don't you will still be all right in regards to the Dean's letter.
Somebody told me that the Dean's Letter was basically your school's way of assuring Program Directors that you aren't the triple-breasted, one-eyed ***** of Omicron Theta.
Letters of reccomendation are several orders of magnitude more important than the Dean's letter. I had already got four interviews before our Dean of Students even sent out the letter.
I would say, and again I am open to correction, that Step 1 scores, letters, and grades are much more important than the Dean's letter, extracurricular activities, or other intangibles.
Like I was trying to say, there is no point to the Dean's Letter.Blade28 said:Actually, all of your third-year rotations' evals go into your Dean's Letter, verbatim. They're not edited out to only include the "positive" comments (otherwise, what would be the point of writing them?). This is the only way the admission committees can see all your evals, in full.
At my school, you get to see it.Ruban said:Do students get to see the letter before it goes out? Or is it secret?
This is from the ERAS site that is used for residency application.NNguyenMD said:Any of you guys know how the Dean of your medical schools write their Dean's Letter for you? No Dean can possibly have meaningful relationships with that many students, so what do they put in there thats not already on your transcript?
Hmmm...strange. Yes, at our school, I'm sure they include ALL your evals from third year, unedited - he kept stressing this point. My classmates and I have all had chances to read our own Dean's Letter, though I'm not sure how this helps them out after the fact. Fortunately, I didn't have anything negative in mine (at least, none that I could see!).Panda Bear said:By the way, you should verify that your Dean of Students puts bad evaluation comments into his letter. If he does, he is handicapping you severely vis a vis the majority of Dean of Students who do not put bad comments in the letter. Are you sure about this? Like I said, usually the worst thing your Dean's letter does is damn you with faint praise.
i can only speak from my experience, but my dean's letter mentioned my class standing (quartile based) in addition to the other things. All of my clinical evaluations (word for word) were placed in the letter, in addition to any other activities, publications, jobs, etc. As far as the "code" they use (excellent, very good, etc) in summarizing your med school performance, that seems largely up to your dean, although your grades will probably be an important factor. good luck.ultane123 said:what if your grades are in the 50th percentile for your class, but you have publications up the a$$ and good activities and great clinical evals? does that help get you bumped from "very good" to "excellent" on the deans letter?