The Financial issue

[LivestockDoc]

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Hmm. There's been a lot of talk lately about the financial investment of vet school, and it seems like a lot of people are either in the "follow your dreams, whatever the cost" camp, or the "go where it's cheap because debt is a huge deal" camp. It makes me curious about people's ages. Obviously there will be some overlap, but I wonder if the first camp is populated with more younger folk, while the latter tends to have an older (30 and up) membership. Just something I wonder every time I hear someone chime in on the financial issue. It could be completely the opposite of what I surmise. Maybe the younger generation is becoming more savvy because of the stupid decisions the older generation has made.


We all know, one of the primary reasons our economy is in the sh*tter today is because so many people followed their dreams (the dream house, the dream car, etc) and figured they'd worry about the debt later. Makes me think of that "Dr." Phil phrase: How's that working out for ya?



Personally, I'm in the Avoid The Debt group. The only OOS vet schools I would consider are the ones where I can get IS after the first year (even tho' if I stay on my current path, my tuition will be paid for. I could surprise myself and decide to go into SA medicine.) But I'm an old timer. I've experienced mortgages, taxes, insurance, major medical bills, unexpected travel, moving expenses when one's household is not the size of a small apartment, and the enormous costs associated with running one's own business (which many of you may do before your school debt is paid off).


Does personal experience with LIFE make one more conservative on this issue? Not putting anybody down here, especially the young'uns. Like I said, it's the older crowd who got us into this mess. But I know people like myself and Sumstorm cringe when we read posts that imply one should just go for it and worry about the debt later because it'll all work out. I know I shouldn't speak for you, Sum, but you and I seem to be in the same boat on this issue. You can correct me if I'm wrong.

I sincerely hope no one takes offense by my post. SDN members feel like family to me, and I don't want any of us to make a decision that really hurts us later. I want ALL of us to succeed on this path!

 

[DVMorBust]

I don't know which group you'd put me in. I think it's important to go for your dreams - and if that means that you only have one definite shot at it (only getting accepted OOS, for example) then it's worth it.

On the flip side, my dream is to be a veterinarian. It's not to go to a specific school, it's not wrapped up in where I get my education - it's what I want for a career. So, because I'm lucky enough to have the choice, I'm taking the cheapest option.

I'm 24, married, and with plans to have land but no plans for young'ns, if that helps.

 

[natalieises]

I think you're probably right when you say that a lot of the people who are quicker to accept the idea of debt are probably younger. Obviously you have a ton of experience in money that we could never have experienced yet! Also, if I were older I would be more worried about the debt because people are already having to work longer due to money issues and retirement being impossible. As a "youngin" I would be able to start paying the debt at a much younger age, and hopefully dig out of the hole sooner in my life.

It's not to say that I would choose out of state over in state. I don't want to have to pay 40,000 vs 18,000 in tuition, but if the only place I got in was the more expensive one I would go. For me the career is that important to me, and I would rather be happy and living like a student for extra years, than settle for a different career path.

Of course this is just one person's thought. I'm sure everyone is becoming more concerned due to the economy, as we all should be more careful in our decisions.

 

[Ben and Me]

It's easy to choose the less-expensive option when you have an option.

Some of us don't have an option, though...and I'm not about to choose money over a US veterinary school, period. I might choose money over the quality of a school, but not over going versus not going.

On the other hand, my opinion might be slightly biased since I'm lucky enough to have parents and grandparents that are able to help me finance my education, so I still hopefully won't be that in debt as long as I live frugally throughout vet school.

 

[turnandburn]

I'm 25 and although I had considered going OOS, after thinking about it long and hard I decided I wasn't willing to go that far into debt to be a vet. Luckily I was accepted into my IS school 😎 so I don't have to worry about it! However, I realized there were actually other careers out there in which I could be happy and successful, and not be $200,000 + in debt.

That was just the conclusion that was right for me. I realize others may think about it differently and there's nothing wrong with that! 🙂

 

[flyhi]

LivestockDoc, i would have to say you probably hit the nail on the head with your assessment. I don't see too many of us older folks that are saying it's 'just money' and a huge amount of debt (compared to potential income) is not something to worry about.

i do not intend to turn this into a political issue whatsoever, but i look at our economy tanking even more since January 20th, my retirement being cut by at least enough to finance one veterinary education, and now the idea that I not only have lost some of my retirement (which is how i could justify switching careers and losing my income potential in my current profession), but now i may have to finance some of my education. This is a big swing in what i had planned out and I would be terrified right now if i was going to be 200k in debt at the end of 4 years (especially if we keep our current president in office) with the possibility of higher unemployment rates, inflation, etc. etc. Not many people here were around when mortgage interest rates were at 14-15%. Try paying back your student loans on the same schedule you have mapped out now and then that happens. I didn't try to enter vet med straight from college, because i had some undergrad debt and was scared of it. It was literally a fraction of some of the numbers i've seen tossed around here and it took me a loooong time to pay it off. I made a pretty decent salary out of college and had a husband to help defray my living expenses.

I am sure i will get flamed from here to the moon for all of this, but it is something to think about. I don't think too many people foresaw our current economic condition coming several years ago when times were oh-so-good. And it can and will get worse if our gov't keeps spending the way they have been.

i wish everyone luck with their decisions. I am obviously a proponent of - if you have a choice between IS and OOS tuition that makes a significant difference in your debt, stay IS. There was another post where someone made a really good point in that your debt load may limit your intership/residency options that you have based on income and/or location. I had never even thought of that, but it makes sense.

i wish everyone luck!

 

[Caninerepro]

😀
I am probably older than any of the rest of you, and I am sure I am the one getting nailed to the cross for picking the more expensive school. Allow me to adjust my halo here.

Look, I was fortunate enough to grow up around money, even if I no longer have access to it. My thing is, any of us could die tomorrow, why not spend however many days we have left being happy? Money is not that big of a deal to me, that is my personal opinion. I walked away from a situation where I had as much money as one could reasonably want. My ex can have it all. I will probably die before finishing paying off my loans, and drive my 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee for at least another few years if it holds on. So be it.

For those concerned with the all mighty dollar, go for it. 😴 Been there done that, be my guest please. Myself, I can live off $100,000.00 a year for the rest of my life. I have no human offspring, nor am I intending to have any. It is just me now. I do not have the family obligations others do. So for myself, my decisions affect only me, and my dogs. I have chosen to make those sacrifices enabling me to be in that position. It is a matter of priorities, what you are willing to give up, and what you can live without. Besides, I will probably come out of it OK in the end. I have an unwilling knack to end up at the top 5% of anything I do. I am far too competitive to withstand losing. 😛

 

[natalieises]

I like you! Inspiring speech🙂

 

[SmallAndLA]

Heh, I'm only twenty and I'm horrified at how much debt I'll be in at my IS ($40-50K if I'm lucky). But I'm an econ major, so it's pretty much pounded into my head to operate at the lowest cost possible.

I considered going out of state, but only for three reasons:
1) If K-State had rejected me, I would have followed the 'Congratulations!' letter if I had gotten one. In my mind, the opportunity costs of losing a year of professional wages and having to reapply/reinterview/worry/etc. was MUCH higher to me than dropping some extra cash on tuition/books. Your mileage may vary.
2) Wisconsin is one of the Places to Be if you want to work dairy. But they rejected me, so whatever.
3) UIUC's MPH/DVM program is pretty darn good and I have friends in the area. But now I've learned about the MPH program that just started at KSU and I'm really impressed with the professors in it.

I got lucky and was accepted to KSU so the three points are moot.

I'll only be twenty-five when I graduate so I'll have about 3-4 years before I have to really start worrying about kids/a house/etc., which will give me a little bit more time to live frugally and pay off some if not most of that debt. I had a goal of being debt-free by the time I was thirty, but I think I might stretch that goal to thirty five to allow for catastrophes and unexpected expenses.

👍

 

[DVMorBust]

I have an unwilling knack to end up at the top 5% of anything I do. I am far too competitive to withstand losing. 😛

...

And you think the rest of us aren't right there with you?

 

[Caninerepro]

I like you! Inspiring speech🙂

You make me blush, but trust me, you do not want to live around someone like me. I am a bit intense. 😛

SmallandLA, now I am embarassed. WI is the lowball school I am declining. Sorry, I may be a cowboy at heart but that does not mean I want to spend the rest of my life with a brown ring around the shoulder of my coveralls. That is my biggest fear if I went up to dairyland. Also Ms. economics major I am equally ashamed to admit I have an MBA in finance -- I should know better than to be doing what I am thinking of.

DVMorBust, we have had our disagreements. 🙂 We are both type A people. Cheers. I can still kick your butt. 😀

 

[flyhi]

😀
I am probably older than any of the rest of you, and I am sure I am the one getting nailed to the cross for picking the more expensive school. Allow me to adjust my halo here.

Look, I was fortunate enough to grow up around money, even if I no longer have access to it. My thing is, any of us could die tomorrow, why not spend however many days we have left being happy? Money is not that big of a deal to me, that is my personal opinion. I walked away from a situation where I had as much money as one could reasonably want. My ex can have it all. I will probably die before finishing paying off my loans, and drive my 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee for at least another few years if it holds on. So be it.

For those concerned with the all mighty dollar, go for it. 😴 Been there done that, be my guest please. Myself, I can live off $100,000.00 a year for the rest of my life. I have no human offspring, nor am I intending to have any. It is just me now. I do not have the family obligations others do. So for myself, my decisions affect only me, and my dogs. I have chosen to make those sacrifices enabling me to be in that position. It is a matter of priorities, what you are willing to give up, and what you can live without. Besides, I will probably come out of it OK in the end. I have an unwilling knack to end up at the top 5% of anything I do. I am far too competitive to withstand losing. 😛

Good Luck and go for it. Wish you the best - you and your 1994 Jeep 😀 You are right - someone with an MBA in finance would only have themselves to blame.

Doubt you are older than me, unfortunately. But, i will lend DVMorBust a hand if you pick on her...even though i just hung up my MMA/boxing gloves...Oh, you meant intellectually? <dang, i can't find a fight anywhere anymore>

 

[BR549]

I am 25 and have spent the last two years, paying down my debt from undergrad. Personally, I agree with some of the others. My family has never been financially blessed, but we have always been happy. I grew up with loving parents and I have a quality education. I feel that education is the best investment one can make. It will always give positive returns, for the rest of your life. Nothing else can boast that type of return. As many of you are aware, the stock market is unpredictable. I am much more comfortable investing what would be a mortgage into the attainment of a higher education that would allow me to do the thing that I love most. I don't want to look back on my life and say, "I wish I would have... if I had the money!" My Dad told me, "Do what you love, and the money will follow."

Now, having said that, I believe that you should be responsible and minimize the debt that you take on. Just make wise decisions and truly weigh your needs and luxuries. That's just my opinion. I say best wishes to everyone! In the end, it's all about how we lived our dash.🙂

 

[AlleyKat]

My Dad told me, "Do what you love, and the money will follow."

Hahah my mom told me the exact same thing!

Did you take that "dash" comment from...[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]"For it matters not, how much we won; the cars...the house...the cash, what matters is how we live and love and how we spend our dash." ?? Thats one of my all-time favorite quotes...maybe I should add it to the favorite quotes thread....

 

[sumstorm]

No worries, be happy.

 

[DVMorBust]

WI is the lowball school I am declining.

interesting how it's ranked higher in the USNEWS!!!

...sorry. Just had to. I'm well aware of the downfalls of rankings, but with all the hate on my state school...hmph.

DVMorBust, we have had our disagreements. 🙂 We are both type A people. Cheers. I can still kick your butt. 😀

You want to put money on that? 🙂

We have had our disagreements. But it keeps me on my toes. Type As - keepin' it real.

 

[BR549]

Hahah my mom told me the exact same thing!

Did you take that "dash" comment from...[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]"For it matters not, how much we won; the cars...the house...the cash, what matters is how we live and love and how we spend our dash." ?? Thats one of my all-time favorite quotes...maybe I should add it to the favorite quotes thread....

👍👍 to wise parents! Yep, that's where it came from. I love that poem as well.

 

[SmallAndLA]

SmallandLA, now I am embarassed. WI is the lowball school I am declining. Sorry, I may be a cowboy at heart but that does not mean I want to spend the rest of my life with a brown ring around the shoulder of my coveralls. That is my biggest fear if I went up to dairyland. Also Ms. economics major I am equally ashamed to admit I have an MBA in finance -- I should know better than to be doing what I am thinking of.

Shame on you for having a finance MBA and doing this!

(Just kidding.)

No need to be embarrassed. If the school's not for you, it's not for you. 🙂

I'm going to show my age here: In my opinion, if you have a choice it's better to be spending the money and be at a place that you like than to be at a place that makes you miserable -- within reason, of course. Being miserable sucks and I know it makes me fall ill a lot more often, resulting in higher intangible costs (lost time, lower grades) and tangible costs ($$ for MD visits, $$ for prescriptions, $$ for visiting referred MD/whatever). I already posted my opinion on not having the choices in my last post. Again, your mileage may vary. That's what's fun about opportunity costs!

I made decent money before I went to school and am still kicking myself in the rear because I didn't save it and spent it on things my 15-17 year old self thought were more important. If I could have a time machine, I'd go kick my own butt for being dumb. So now I'm relatively frugal though I do have bursts of 'oooh...want!' sometimes. It'll be worth resisting those in the end though.

I've always wondered if I'm a Type A or a Type B...I shall have to invoke my Google-fu to see if I can figure it out.

 

[DollyyLlama]

Personally, I think the people who have had to work hard to build equity in thier lives are the ones who tend to be the most conscientious about it, and the ones who tend to be the least arrogant about their positions in life.

i just gotta say.. SumStorm, you blow me away with your articulate, thorough posts and life wisdom. rock on!

 

[Caninerepro]

I agree. While Sum and I may disagree on our outlook on life, I totally respect her very well thought out and far better presented perspectives on life. You seem to be someone I would not want to battle in a dark alley. 😎

I shall have to say, ladies (I presume) I must thank you for this discussion. I was once again doubting myself -- something that happens when one lives by himself and has nothing better to do. After going through all of this on paper -- I am better when I write things out -- I feel better about my decisions. Because I have been challenged and once again at least in my mind feel I am making the better descision, for me.

DVMorBust, I was ever so grateful when WI called me to offer a spot, as I was when they bent the rules and gave me an extra two weeks to get my application in. I have nothing but good thoughts for Madison, thus my dillemma. As has been said over and over again. a DVM is a DVM. Plus, were I interested in dairy it would be at the top of my list. I still say I am more type A that you! 😀

 

[DVMorBust]

I still say I am more type A that you! 😀

Hmm...I played football in high school. And I am a lady. 😎

 

[DVMorBust]

DVMorBust, I was ever so grateful when WI called me to offer a spot, as I was when they bent the rules and gave me an extra two weeks to get my application in. I have nothing but good thoughts for Madison, thus my dillemma. As has been said over and over again. a DVM is a DVM. Plus, were I interested in dairy it would be at the top of my list.

I know that you've thought about it a lot and that WI doesn't work for your (let's be honest, extremely specific) interests. I just keep giving you grief because your claims re: program, etc. come off as sweeping arguments about the school. Mostly I just want to keep popping up, waving my little 'WISCONSIN AIN'T JUST ABOUT THE COWS!!!' flag for future applicants who will be scouring these threads like we all once did.

 

[Caninerepro]

Mostly I just want to keep popping up, waving my little 'WISCONSIN AIN'T JUST ABOUT THE COWS!!!' flag for future applicants who will be scouring these threads like we all once did.

You mean you have bulls too? Perhaps even sheep? I still say there is something cheesy about WI. Oh man am I in for it.

Football players wear too many pads!

 

[DVMorBust]

You mean you have bulls too? Perhaps even sheep? I still say there is something cheesy about WI. Oh man am I in for it.

Football players wear too many pads!

Hey! We've got pigs, too.

And I was under the impression that hockey players padded up but good.

 

[bunnity]

Just wanted to weigh in as a young (22 year old) person in the "go the cheapest route" camp. I think probably why I feel so strongly about it is because of my background and growing up with no money and getting lectures from my dad from a very young age about not spending money. At the beginning of college, I moved out of a really bad situation at my parents' house. The only reason I could do this was because I had a job at the hospital that gave me enough money to pay my own way. As it was I had about $200 in my bank account and I was on my own for rent, utilities, food, books, birth control... It was terrifying. My room was freezing but I couldn't afford a space heater. I lived off matzo and rice for a couple years and even now, money is a huge issue for me because it's not just money. Money is the difference between eating and not eating, the difference between being able to go to school and not go to school, the difference between trying to balance school and a hectic job or being able to focus on studying, and difference between affording birth control or constantly being afraid of getting pregnant. These are just the things I dealt with and there are others that are much worse - not being able to afford medical care without insurance, having a child taken away because you can't heat your house, losing your home... I have to admit it drives me crazy when people say something like living abroad is priceless, because it DOES have a price. I know some of the situations I have given are extreme and I probably sound a little paranoid, but I feel like when people make these statements about things being priceless they have never really had to deal with not having plenty of money. Of course everyone's situation is different and I'm not trying to knock anyone's decisions (hell, my IS is Penn), just to provide a perspective for why some of feel so strongly about the money discussions.

 

[sumstorm]

Everyone is concerned about this issue ... and no one wants students to get too much in debt. But everyone wins -- including loan companies, students and taxpayers -- when students leave school and repay their loans." - Tom Joyce

 

[GeeQued]

As many know I've been going through this with deciding between my IS and OOS schools. Its an extremely tough decision and I realized its something each person can only make based on their own circumstances and not necessairly the opinions of others. I'm in an extremely fortunate position in multiple was for being able to take the OOS school first one being that like Kai I have absolutely no one else to worry about except me (well and the one amazing boy in my life who happens to be my horse) so my decision is soley based on my own circumsances. I took the advise from the last thread and configuring in costs my difference comes down to $7,200 each year, so estimate $30,000 total. I'll admit I've grown up with things in my life that I wish everyone had the opportunity to have. My parents are extremely supportive of pursuing higher education as with my grandparents and its more than likely that they would be contribute to my education for the DVM program as well. My father is probably one of the wisest business men I know and set aside enough for me when I was younger that has accumulated into being able to pay most if not all my tuition loan free if I wanted or to buy a house. And even without that I have worked my butt off between workign 40 hour weeks with 20 units of class or through my hard work in my competition circuits. In reality I could sell my horse tomorrow and use that to cover my entire tuition.

The only reason why I bring any of that up, and I dont mean in anyway to offend anyone - not my intention at all, but I really believe that the choices each of us will make depends on our upbringing. If my father was in my position he would take the cheapest route because he grew up with absolutely no help from his parents. It seems from what peoples responses are is that those who didn't have the major concern over money growing up can easily justify paying the extra tuition whereas those who havent money is a concerning factor and neither of the two groups are wrong in what they decide, its what each of us will have to live with.

As for my decision, after sitting in the hospital the last few days getting my final treatments done (the joys of my body not cooperating with my life) I decided I need to go where I felt served the best fit. Both Davis and Minnesota had similar programs while I felt Davis had the better overall name to itself, Minnesota had the better technology, faculty, student enivorment, and overall drive of the university towards advancement. I think when I was reading about hte school their goal was to be one of the top research universities in the nation in the next decade says a lot. I fell in love with the atmosphere of the town, the cultural life, and as of right now I love snow (granted I havent been in it for more than 3 days in a row so I'm sure that'll change). To me those are all important factors of what I felt were important in not only getting me through school but being where I was happy.


So to the end of my ramble, what one person may see as an amazing school might not be to another. Each of us needs to find our own fit, whether thats based on the financial side or specific programs, that will make the next four years the most fullfilling with no regrets, were few of the many who have dreams of being vets and anyone of them would jump at the chance to be where we are.

 

[sumstorm]

"The human race has one really effective weapon, and that is laughter." - Mark Twain

 

[LivestockDoc]

Woo Hoo! I finally learned how to multi-quote. I'd like to thank Redsteven for my accomplishment. Thanks for the help, Red!

😀
I am probably older than any of the rest of you

Um....huh?

...and I am sure I am the one getting nailed to the cross for picking the more expensive school.

And as the OP I say again...huh?

I wasn't referring to you at all, Kai. You hadn't even crossed my mind. I was just noticing that some posters seemed awfully nonchalant about incurring massive debt. It made me wonder if there was any correlation between that position and the poster's age. Or whether, in fact, the opposite was true.

No doubt about it, there are/will be a lot of us who are/will be in the position of deciding between an expensive OOS school and no school at all because we didn't get accepted to our IS (assuming we even have one). And in that case, the debt may be unavoidable.

And, personally, I don't think everyone should attend the cheapest school they got into because money is all that matters. Far from it. There are so many factors to consider when choosing between schools. You, for instance, chose a school that is strong in your area of interest. That sounds like a good decision to me. My only hope is that everyone takes the financial considerations seriously and makes an informed choice that is right for them. I don't want anyone to be overly careless and get themselves in real trouble later on. That's all.

My thing is, any of us could die tomorrow, why not spend however many days we have left being happy?

Hey, I like happy. I'm one of its biggest fans!

Money is not that big of a deal to me, that is my personal opinion.

Nor to me. It is simply a means to an end. Debt, however, is a big deal to me. It affects my autonomy because it makes me obligated to someone else (the person/institution I owe). It prevents me from reaching some of my goals as quickly as I want to. It distances me from the aforementioned thing: happy.

I can live off $100,000.00 a year for the rest of my life.

Me too! How did you manage to get a guaranteed $100,000 for life? Sign me up!

So for myself, my decisions affect only me, and my dogs.

And the people you owe. Don't forget about them.

 

[LivestockDoc]

money is a huge issue for me because it's not just money. Money is the difference between eating and not eating... I have to admit it drives me crazy when people say something like living abroad is priceless, because it DOES have a price.....I feel like when people make these statements about things being priceless they have never really had to deal with not having plenty of money.

I'm with you, bunnity. So perhaps the real correlation isn't between age and attitude toward debt, but between experience and attitude toward debt.

 

[Optimistic 13]

.

 

[hopefulvet21]

I am def in the young crowd, and I am most likely choosing my most expensive option. I'm doing it because there is no extremely cheap option for me and the difference in loan payments per month is really not significant. I am not going to feel guilty about it because I sat down for a whole day with my dad who is a financially savvy person and we crunched all the numbers making sure to include every single possible cost during school. I am willing to take on the extra debt for a school I know I will be the happiest at. When I think of myself living at my other options, I find it extremely depressing. I definitely don't think it's wise to choose whatever school without working out what your loan payments will be exactly and for how long. Now that I've done that, I am comfortable with it and know I am making an informed decision. It's certainly not fair to assume that those choosing a more expensive school are being whimsical and naive. Everyone's situation is completely individual, and everyone's priorities are different.

 

[sumstorm]

"How strange is the lot of us mortals! Each of us is here for a brief sojourn; for what purpose he knows not, though he senses it. But without deeper reflection one knows from daily life that one exists for other people." - Albert Einstein

 

[hopefulvet21]

I judge "fit" for vet school by the location mainly. My options are all in very different places, and it is a big deal to me where I spend 4-5 years of my life. I'm not going somewhere I know I'd be miserable. Like I said, everyone's priorities are different.

"However, thinking that a difference in costs that is likely equal to more than a years income is minimal is just kidding yourself, even if it only adds a little to each months cost (over a 30 year period) because the total amount you pay with interest will be very high."

For my case, the difference in cost is not more than a years income. When I said I crunched the numbers, I meant I crunched the numbers in excruciating detail. I never said a cost of more than a years income was minimal. There are other expenses I would pay for a school here in the US that add on a lot which I would not incur in the UK in my case (i.e. here I'd need a car, car insurance, and have to pay for health insurance). I also calculated my loan repayment for a 20 year period, not 30. And in my opinion, evaluating your income and payments per month is more useful than looking at the total interest paid over a long period of time. I was just posting my position/outlook, but thanks for your input.

 

[laurafinn]

I'm in my 30's, and I'm a mixture of "You only live once" and "Take the cheapest option." After two bouts of unemployment, financed in part by credit cards (do NOT try this at home, it is really unwise, if sometimes the only option) I have a healthy respect for debt and how it feels to have a large chunk of your paycheck pre-spent.

I realize for me that vet school is a very expensive dream that financially makes no sense whatsoever. That said, I took the cheapest route, once lost salary and cost of living were factored in. I am not a risk averse person, financially speaking, and I have some tolerance for debt (although I hate it, I can put it out of my mind and live my life). I think you need to know these things about yourself before you borrow $200K.

My advice for incoming vet students would be to go to the cheapest school you can. No matter which (AVMA-accredited) school you graduate from, you'll take the NAVLE and become a vet.

I'm also in the "If you can go to whichever school you want using OPM (other people's money) or your own savings, that's fine too" camp. There are a lot more people in vet school than I expected who don't need loans.

 

[sumstorm]

"Between an uncontrolled escalation and passivity, there is a demanding road of responsibility that we must follow." - Dominique de Villepin

 

[TSUJC]

I am in the older crowd (26 when I start school in August) and thrash me all you want but it is not all about money to me, I don't mind living modestly when I graduate because I love this profession. I am well aware of how much my monthly payments will be when I graduate and I am OK with that.
I am going OOS because I didn't get accepted to my IS school and frankly if I waited around and kept applying to my IS school I would probably be in a bigger financial mess. Like many of you, my undergraduate/graduate loans are in deferment. However, if I stop attending school full-time my monthly payments will begin. Therefore, in order to stay in deferment I had to stay enrolled in college until I got accepted to vet school. I am about to finish my masters and if I hadn't decided to go OOS that means I would have to continue paying tuition and taking pointless post-bach classes until I finally did get accepted IS...and lord only knows how many application cycles that would have taken!

 

[VAgirl]

I am in the older crowd (26 when I start school in August) and thrash me all you want but it is not all about money to me, I don't mind living modestly when I graduate because I love this profession. I am well aware of how much my monthly payments will be when I graduate and I am OK with that.
I am going OOS because I didn't get accepted to my IS school and frankly if I waited around and kept applying to my IS school I would probably be in a bigger financial mess. Like many of you, my undergraduate/graduate loans are in deferment. However, if I stop attending school full-time my monthly payments will begin. Therefore, in order to stay in deferment I had to stay enrolled in college until I got accepted to vet school. I am about to finish my masters and if I hadn't decided to go OOS that means I would have to continue paying tuition and taking pointless post-bach classes until I finally did get accepted IS...and lord only knows how many application cycles that would have taken!

I'm sure you know this, but just in case others reading your post got confused...when one enters vet school, their previous (federal) loans go back into deferment. I'm sure TSUJC was just referring to the fact that staying in school between undergrad and vet school kept those loans in deferment the entire time rather than him having to make monthly payments for the 2 or so years between UG and vet school.

 

[bunnity]

And, personally, I don't think everyone should attend the cheapest school they got into because money is all that matters. Far from it. There are so many factors to consider when choosing between schools. You, for instance, chose a school that is strong in your area of interest. That sounds like a good decision to me. My only hope is that everyone takes the financial considerations seriously and makes an informed choice that is right for them. I don't want anyone to be overly careless and get themselves in real trouble later on. That's all.

I absolutely agree with you here LivestockDoc. I definitely think there are situations where the best financial option is not the best overall option. I just think that making an informed choice about finances, whatever that choice is, is the responsible thing to do. I also think there is a difference between someone thinking "I am totally set on this more expensive school for x valid reason" and someone who is really ambivalent between two schools but is avoiding taking money into that decision.

Optimistic13, thanks for another data point. It seems that money opinions correlate with age, experience, upbringing, and perhaps also just personality. I know families where one sibling is great with money and another is terrible - leading me to think that some of it is tied to personality.

 

[nyanko]

One sad note that I thought about as I was talking to a recent (<5yr) graduate is that your decisions will also affect future relationships. Her SO told her that he is unwilling to marry her with the amount of debt she has from school because he feels he would inevitably carry more of the financial load for the next 25 years.

1) If someone is unwilling to marry you due to your debt, they aren't worth worrying about anyway.

And, for those who may someday have kids (and unless you have a oophorectomy/ hysterectomy, there is always a chance, even with tubal ligation....and vasectomies have the same risk, though slight) it could really affect whether or not you could provide any assistance for your children's education.

2) I don't know why you say this like having kids is an undeniable consequence of becoming pregnant accidentally. If a person had a ligation/vasectomy it probably means they knew they didn't want kids. I am happy to live in the United States where I have the freedom of reproductive choice even in the instance of failure of contraceptive methods. That's a very ill-thought-out statement.

rephrase: it's one thing to say "you might change your mind one day" which is annoying enough in itself

but it's quite another to say "even if you never want kids you might end up with them anyway" because that's just plain....huh?

 

[bunnity]

2) I don't know why you say this like having kids is an undeniable consequence of becoming pregnant accidentally. If a person had a ligation/vasectomy it probably means they knew they didn't want kids. I am happy to live in the United States where I have the freedom of reproductive choice even in the instance of failure of contraceptive methods. That's a very ill-thought-out statement.

Well technically if you are broke you might be unable to afford an abortion. Or a male could get a female pregnant and she could choose to keep the baby, which he would have to deal with.

I think the larger point here is that more loans now = less of certain opportunities later. Whether that is paying for a kid's education, getting a mortgage on that dream house / farm five years out of school, traveling abroad every year, whatever. What that means to me is that in order to realize my dream of being a vet, I might have to postphone some of my other dreams - the farm, the horse, opening that nonprofit - for a while in favor of the vet dream.

 

[nyanko]

Well technically if you are broke you might be unable to afford an abortion. Or a male could get a female pregnant and she could choose to keep the baby, which he would have to deal with.

In the first case (and in those with religious objection), there's the option of adoption if you really and truly do not want kids. Besides that, abortion is cheaper than having a kid. My point is that if you are raising a child, that is your choice, not something inflicted on you by fate, unless you are the Virgin Mary.

In the second, I think that is a major problem with the way that things are structured, and really feel bad for men in that scenario. There are ways to give up paternal rights and claim but I don't know all the legal ins and outs of it or how well it would hold up if mommy wanted child support. This is getting waaay off topic but it's a reason that I believe that issues concerning children are one of the absolute most important things that a couple needs to be on the same page about.

In neither of those scenarios would the kid most likely be born into a very good situation at all, and that's really sad.

 

[turnandburn]

I am in the older crowd (26 when I start school in August)

OMG! 😱 Please don't say you're in the older crowd!!! We are the same age, makes ME feel old!!!

 

[bunnity]

My point is that if you are raising a child, that is your choice, not something inflicted on you by fate, unless you are the Virgin Mary.

Fair enough!

 

[LivestockDoc]

What that means to me is that in order to realize my dream of being a vet, I might have to postphone some of my other dreams - the farm, the horse, opening that nonprofit - for a while in favor of the vet dream.

Gosh, bunnity, we've got the same plans! Horses (and livestock for me), a farm, and the non-profit: I want to use part of my farm to start a sanctuary for abused/neglected livestock since there are so few places where these animals can be rehomed.

Cool!

 

[bunnity]

Gosh, bunnity, we've got the same plans! Horses (and livestock for me), a farm, and the non-profit: I want to use part of my farm to start a sanctuary for abused/neglected livestock since there are so few places where these animals can be rehomed.

Cool!

Replace livestock with rabbits and (native) wildlife, and you have me!

 

[nyanko]

I'm not really sure about where I stand on the issue at hand in this thread, honestly, deterministic derail notwithstanding.

You obviously can't control everything that happens to you, so I can totally see the points of those on the more conservative side, but I still can't shake the feeling that to me, not being able to control everything is all the more reason to do what makes me happiest now. If I got run over by a Yolobus tomorrow while riding my bicycle to campus, will it really matter to me whether I saved $10k extra a year in school loans? I'll be dead either way, so it seems like I wouldn't know any better.

On the same token, if some of the disasters foretold in this thread

you might lose your house to a tornado, your husband to illness, become disabled for a year or two, and your position destroyed by a disaster

were to actually happen, how much would any loan difference really and truly matter?

I think part of what disturbs me about it is that when I do SAR work at major disasters, there are 2 types of people...those who swore it could never happen and wander around dazed, and those who say 'yeah, it happened, what do we do next?' and form a plan of action. I have learned from enough life lessons that the most important skill is the ability to pick oneself up from the pit they have been thrown in after being savagely beat up by life, and start to climb the ladder of solutions to find the fresh air and opportunity to move on in their life path. So, in some ways, I try to impart some of that life lesson, and others, by sharing my experiences and knowledge that I gained from having very little money and being only a little in debt after undergrad..... so that maybe people don't have to learn the same things when they have major debt after vet school.

I'm a little confused by your lengthy lead-in here, and don't see the connection between people who got their house wiped out by Hurricane Katrina and people who are about to begin a veterinary education. Are you saying that those people who are going in saying they are cognizant of the debt but will undertake it anyway are like the types who won't try to find solutions to their problems or what? I don't really see how the two are related.

 

[aspiringDVM]

I'm twenty, with the opinion that, unless you have a really compelling reason to go elsewhere, the cheaper alternative is generally better. I'm applying for the first time this summer, and I've actually been thinking alot about just applying to my contract school this round versus applying to three OOS's as well. I'm terrified that I might get accepted to an OOS but not my IS, and have to choose between applying again with no guaranteed results vs. going in debt over 140,000 just for tuition 😱.
I tried to have a talk with my parents (who are generally very realistic and reasonable) last weekend, and they said "Oh yes, apply to the other schools. Don't worry, you'll get a scholarship!" I just can't make them understand. Bwah!!!

 

[cwazy cat lady]

I am single. I am approaching thirty. I postponed applying to veterinary school precisely because of this incomeebt ratio conundrum, as well as the idea that a four-year investment puts me at age 34-35 when I get out of school.

I still am undecided on whether I will go the cheap route (in-state) or the expensive route (Cornell or Edinburgh). I really have little to no interest in WSU at the moment and I am concerned about quality of education/location. I hear great things about Cornell and pretty good things about Edinburgh. Of all places to live, Edinburgh surpasses both Ithaca and Pullman (last choice) as my preference by a long shot.

Do I want to be 200K in debt? No, not really. It absolutely scares me.

Could I survive? I think so. I am still considering the possible implications and weighing my options... but I think if I do end up going to veterinary school, location is going to be really important to me... that important, in fact.

 

[bunnity]

You obviously can't control everything that happens to you, so I can totally see the points of those on the more conservative side, but I still can't shake the feeling that to me, not being able to control everything is all the more reason to do what makes me happiest now. If I got run over by a Yolobus tomorrow while riding my bicycle to campus, will it really matter to me whether I saved $10k extra a year in school loans? I'll be dead either way, so it seems like I wouldn't know any better.

I think the problem with this (for me) is that if today I did what made me happiest now there is no way on earth that I would have gone to two physics classes and then be working a 3-11 shift at the hospital (and this is the non-animal kind of hospital). I definitely would be riding a horse on the beach somewhere, and blowing all the money I've saved for an apartment deposit and rabies shots on something less mundane.

I think I get what you are saying - that the opposite extreme of only ever thinking about the future can lead to a less enjoyable present. Personally I think neither extreme works - I have to consider the present and the future when I make choices about how to spend my time and money.