The future of pharmaceutical specialties?

[pharmalt82]

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Suppose that, as I predict, retail pharmacy and a lot of other dispensing-related pharmacy jobs are going to evaporate or get saturated within the next 5 years due to a surplus, change in laws, Rx vending machines, etc...

Do you think that pharmaceutical specialties (psychiatry, oncology, nuclear, nutrition support, etc.) will also get saturated or destroyed soon afterward?

I am currently in a 6 year Pharm.D. program and am about to complete my second year. I definitely do not want to go into retail.
By the way: I hate dealing with annoying patients. But, I love learning and I love science. I actually enjoy learning about medication.

I have myself down to three options:
1.] Finish PharmD and get into an intense pharmacy specialty that involves talking with a lot of healthcare professionals. I don't mind doing 2 years of residency.
2.] Finish PharmD and then do MD and try to get into a specialty that does not involve too much patient contact.
3.] Transfer out and go into MD ASAP.
4.] Transfer out and go into computer science because I love computers too.

What the **** do I do?

 

[BMBiology]

I have myself down to three options:
1.] Finish PharmD and get into an intense pharmacy specialty that involves talking with a lot of healthcare professionals. I don't mind doing 2 years of residency.
2.] Finish PharmD and then do MD and try to get into a specialty that does not involve too much patient contact.
3.] Transfer out and go into MD ASAP.
4.] Transfer out and go into computer science because I love computers too.

What the **** do I do?

I count 4 options...

 

[pharmalt82]

I count 4 options...

I meant to fix that.
But, thanks for your amazing contribution.

 

[p-rog]

First of all, you've contributed absolutely zero to this forumn so don't show up one day and expect people here to just figure out you're entire life for you. Secondly, there is no one right answer and this is something you have to decide for yourself.

now, I will say something helpful that you may not be aware of. Ok, so you really like computers (enough to consider getting a CS degree). IT pharmacists has sort of fizzled out as a career but I do think there are still job opportunities for pharmacists who are willing to get the extra training and want to work with the IT aspect of pharmacies. You should probably look into this.

 

[StriveForGlory]

I am also in a 6 year pharmD program and am finishing up my third year. Like you I dont plan on going into retail, and am actually pretty certain that I want to do a residency.

The thing is residency programs are getting saturated too. There are areas in the country that require a residency to get even a staffing job at a hospital. For clinical work a PGY2 is pretty much required and even then its not guaranteed unless you are willing to move wherever there is an opening. However i plan on just going for it and hoping for the best. If I dont get a clinical job right out of residency I will work staff, build up my resume, and wait for a clinical position to open in the area. Might not be the best choice for all, but I am pretty convinced that this is what i want to do and I also have no desire to move from my current location (northern NJ). You also have to consider that certain specialties are harder to find than others, and thus will have an easier time obtaining jobs. But once again this all depends on your area.

About medical school... I considered it. Considered transfering and doing it after pharmacy school. The thing is I feel like the time commitment and the loans I would incur are not worth it. In the 6 year program I will only have to pay for two years of graduate classes (and the second year i can commute to my rotations from home so i dont have to pay housing), whereas in medical school (correct me if im wrong), you have to pay graduate for all four years. And if you go out of state, thats a ****-ton of money in my opinion. And for what? From what I am hearing MDs are losing a lot of power that they once had (in terms of money and authority). Due to the economic crisis people are starting to realize that MDs cost more money than they are worth. Especially when you have NP and PAs who can do almost (yes almost, they are not as good as an MD) the same thing as a doctor, for half the price. And who knows what is going to happen with this new healthcare bill or with healthcare in general by the time you get out of school?

And programming? Both of my parents are programmers and they hate it. They say that you are most knowledgable when you get out of school because you know the newest, most popular code. But over time the new grads coming out of schools will know another code. And that code will be more commonly used than the code you know. So you have to relearn. Which isn't terrible until you get so caught up with everything that you just arent able to relearn all that information and keep up with everything else going on in your life. My parents make good money (around 90k each), but they also work some pretty intense hours for it. I dont think its worth it, considering they hate their jobs and are afraid of outsourcing at any moment.

In the end if you want a guaranteed clinical job I would say go for the MD. However, as my boss once said, being a pharmacist is as clinical as you want it to be. And there are definitely a lot of different options and flexibility within pharmacy.

 

[pharmalt82]

First of all, you've contributed absolutely zero to this forumn so don't show up one day and expect people here to just figure out you're entire life for you. Secondly, there is no one right answer and this is something you have to decide for yourself.

now, I will say something helpful that you may not be aware of. Ok, so you really like computers (enough to consider getting a CS degree). IT pharmacists has sort of fizzled out as a career but I do think there are still job opportunities for pharmacists who are willing to get the extra training and want to work with the IT aspect of pharmacies. You should probably look into this.

Sorry. I didn't mean to sound like a jerk.
I just found it odd to see "I count 4 options..." as the first response to my question.
I should have included a "LOL" in my response?

I am also in a 6 year pharmD program and am finishing up my third year. Like you I dont plan on going into retail, and am actually pretty certain that I want to do a residency.

The thing is residency programs are getting saturated too. There are areas in the country that require a residency to get even a staffing job at a hospital. For clinical work a PGY2 is pretty much required and even then its not guaranteed unless you are willing to move wherever there is an opening. However i plan on just going for it and hoping for the best. If I dont get a clinical job right out of residency I will work staff, build up my resume, and wait for a clinical position to open in the area. Might not be the best choice for all, but I am pretty convinced that this is what i want to do and I also have no desire to move from my current location (northern NJ). You also have to consider that certain specialties are harder to find than others, and thus will have an easier time obtaining jobs. But once again this all depends on your area.

About medical school... I considered it. Considered transfering and doing it after pharmacy school. The thing is I feel like the time commitment and the loans I would incur are not worth it. In the 6 year program I will only have to pay for two years of graduate classes (and the second year i can commute to my rotations from home so i dont have to pay housing), whereas in medical school (correct me if im wrong), you have to pay graduate for all four years. And if you go out of state, thats a ****-ton of money in my opinion. And for what? From what I am hearing MDs are losing a lot of power that they once had (in terms of money and authority). Due to the economic crisis people are starting to realize that MDs cost more money than they are worth. Especially when you have NP and PAs who can do almost (yes almost, they are not as good as an MD) the same thing as a doctor, for half the price. And who knows what is going to happen with this new healthcare bill or with healthcare in general by the time you get out of school?

And programming? Both of my parents are programmers and they hate it. They say that you are most knowledgable when you get out of school because you know the newest, most popular code. But over time the new grads coming out of schools will know another code. And that code will be more commonly used than the code you know. So you have to relearn. Which isn't terrible until you get so caught up with everything that you just arent able to relearn all that information and keep up with everything else going on in your life. My parents make good money (around 90k each), but they also work some pretty intense hours for it. I dont think its worth it, considering they hate their jobs and are afraid of outsourcing at any moment.

In the end if you want a guaranteed clinical job I would say go for the MD. However, as my boss once said, being a pharmacist is as clinical as you want it to be. And there are definitely a lot of different options and flexibility within pharmacy.

This is the path that I am leaning towards too. The way I see it: if I try to be the best pharmacist I can and that still isn't enough to get me a decent job anywhere in the pharmaceutical world, then screw it...
Also, when considering the MD pathway, I remembered why I didn't want to become a doctor: the extreme levels of stress, long education, angry patients, and what not. It's not that I don't expect to see any of this in being a pharmacist, but at least the degree of stress may be slightly lowered. I am just looking for a job that: pays enough (I'm not high maintenance), isn't overly stressful, is secure, and has enough intellectual stimulation.
I've looked at JD, MD, computer programming, and pharmacy as potential careers. Despite the many flaws that a future in pharmacy may hold, I am still confident that given the information I had and have, this is the best path I could have chosen.

 

[StriveForGlory]

You should consider a PharmD/JD. Hear those are pretty lucrative. No idea how the job market for that is though.

 

[UNMorBUST]

Most medical fields require patient contact. Considering you enjoy science and academia, why not pursue a Phd in a field of science?

 

[pharmalt82]

You should consider a PharmD/JD. Hear those are pretty lucrative. No idea how the job market for that is though.

I've considered that and I've seen the following options (so far):
Medical Malpractice Lawyer (couldn't find too many figures on salary, workload, career pathway, etc.)
Patent Lawyer (heard it's getting saturated too).
Working for a pharmaceutical company (job security may be hard to find)
Working for the FDA (moving to DC probably, arrgh!)

 

[pharmalt82]

Most medical fields require patient contact. Considering you enjoy science and academia, why not pursue a Phd in a field of science?

Would you know what kind of a career that would lead to?
I'm assuming that you're saying that academia is an option with a PhD, though not a necessity. I haven't heard the best things about the "publish or perish" world.

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

Would you know what kind of a career that would lead to?
I'm assuming that you're saying that academia is an option with a PhD, though not a necessity. I haven't heard the best things about the "publish or perish" world.

You can look into http://www.amcp.org/content/pr/roles.cfm

There are residencies listed on the amcp.org website. The VA and Kaiser have managed care residencies around the nation.

Something to consider if you are more interested in learning about formulary development, new agents, and safety rather than patient contact. Electronic delivery of health information/privacy to patients may fit into your computer interests.

The managed care pharmacists I have met, work in a more office based setting.

 

[pharmalt82]

You can look into http://www.amcp.org/content/pr/roles.cfm

There are residencies listed on the amcp.org website. The VA and Kaiser have managed care residencies around the nation.

Something to consider if you are more interested in learning about formulary development, new agents, and safety rather than patient contact. Electronic delivery of health information/privacy to patients may fit into your computer interests.

The managed care pharmacists I have met, work in a more office based setting.

Thanks, this was helpful.
In return for a secure job, the assumed loss of autonomy in an MCO may be worth it.

 

[type b pharmD]

Thanks, this was helpful.
In return for a secure job, the assumed loss of autonomy in an MCO may be worth it.

security in an mco ?? LOL

 

[pharmalt82]

security in an mco ?? LOL

What do you think is the most secure job in pharmacy?
Hospital Staff, Ambulatory, Teaching? What?
Please don't say something like a filthy rich Pharma CEO....

 

[type b pharmD]

What do you think is the most secure job in pharmacy?
Hospital Staff, Ambulatory, Teaching? What?
Please don't say something like a filthy rich Pharma CEO....

Personally I would say hospital in a large regional center. Census is probably only going to go up over the next few decades. Maybe tied with teaching at a large, established school

 

[pharmalt82]

Personally I would say hospital in a large regional center. Census is probably only going to go up over the next few decades. Maybe tied with teaching at a large, established school

So, we're talking NYC-type "regional center" with a big pharmacy school nearby?
😕

 

[orange_ivy]

What do y'all think about the future of consulting pharmacy? (consulting in nursing homes...etc.)
Thanks!

 

[SZ251]

Wow, all these options sound like SO much schooling. I once thought of some sort of a dual degree path (MD, JD, etc), but as I am currently starting down the barrel of six finals this week, anything extra just seems ludicrous.

Good for you for exploring, but don't be surprised if your perceptions/plans change after you get a few years into the actual pharmacy portion of your curriculum.....Not to rain on your parade of anything.

If you don't want patient interaction, I don't know why you are looking into being an MD...??? You might want to look into a research job.

 

[SZ251]

What do y'all think about the future of consulting pharmacy? (consulting in nursing homes...etc.)
Thanks!

It sounds pretty lucrative to me. The money is already there, but I think it's just a matter of time until a large MTM-type company capitalizes on this market. So I would say good in the short run (if you plan on working for yourself) and good in the long run if you don't mind working for an MTM company.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Home infusion, baby.

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

What do y'all think about the future of consulting pharmacy? (consulting in nursing homes...etc.)
Thanks!

Nursing Homes require a routine medication review by a pharmacist per regulation. Companies like Pharmerica do this...

It is the most monotonous boring thing you can do... review charts all day. It's become a numbers game where you have to review so many charts per day etc.

It's definitely not a true "consulting" gig but I think the term consultant is dervied from the fact that you're not employed by the nursing home.. maybe.

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

Home infusion, baby.

Home infusion is a form of retail pharmacy operation. The difference is you provide intravenous medications. The business is based on referral basis.. and many ID physicians have business interest in home infusion...

Hence they discharge patients on home infusion Daptomycin when patients could probably receive other drugs such as Vanco or oral Linezolid. Evidently reimbursement on Dapto is fairly good...

I'm not sure how legal that is for a physician to refer a patient a home infusion co he or she has a ownership in...

I did a manager gig for a large home infusion corporation... it was by far the worst job I've had in pharmacy. It was much worse than the 8 days I spent in retail pharmacy filling prescriptions...

 

[aboveliquidice]

Home infusion is a form of retail pharmacy operation. The difference is you provide intravenous medications. The business is based on referral basis.. and many ID physicians have business interest in home infusion...

Hence they discharge patients on home infusion Daptomycin when patients could probably receive other drugs such as Vanco or oral Linezolid. Evidently reimbursement on Dapto is fairly good...

I'm not sure how legal that is for a physician to refer a patient a home infusion co he or she has a ownership in...

I did a manager gig for a large home infusion corporation... it was by far the worst job I've had in pharmacy. It was much worse than the 8 days I spent in retail pharmacy filling prescriptions...

Wow... you made it 8 days?

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

Wow... you made it 8 days?

not continuosly... over 2 months...one day a week..

 

[orange_ivy]

Does anyone have any info on the company Omnicare? I'm debating taking a position with this company consulting in nursing homes.
Thanks!

 

[njac]

http://www.accp.com/docs/misc/BoardCertificationQuandary.pdf

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Does anyone have any info on the company Omnicare? I'm debating taking a position with this company consulting in nursing homes.
Thanks!

One pharmacist does consult work. The rest have the most boring job in the entire pharmacy industry. If you are that one pharmacist, its a sweet job. If you're not...run.

 

[rxlynn]

Nursing Homes require a routine medication review by a pharmacist per regulation. Companies like Pharmerica do this...

It is the most monotonous boring thing you can do... review charts all day. It's become a numbers game where you have to review so many charts per day etc.

It's definitely not a true "consulting" gig but I think the term consultant is dervied from the fact that you're not employed by the nursing home.. maybe.

I considered doing this, but in the end decided that a) it was far too much driving around for my taste and b) not enough patient interaction

The pharmacist that I shadowed rarely saw her patients face to face, and many of them were advanced alzheimer's, etc. I just thought the patient population would be too depressing to work with. At least in other settings you will typically get a mixture of ages.

 

[MustLoveDrugs]

Does anyone have any info on the company Omnicare? I'm debating taking a position with this company consulting in nursing homes.
Thanks!

I've worked for one company that was bought out by Omnicare and another that refused to be bought out by Omnicare. I tend to be biased toward smaller, independent organizations that put more emphasis on patient care than numbers. You may be responsible for anywhere from 800-1100 charts/month, and Omnicare tends to push those limits. I highly suggest you talk to an Omnicare consultant - maybe even spend a day with them - before you commit.

With that said, getting into consultant pharmacy isn't always the easiest thing to do. It often allows for flexible hours, which makes it desirable for those of us who love old people. It's also an opportunity to specialize your pharmacy practice early in the game. Working as a consultant pharmacist and earning your CGP would make you marketable within systems like the VA as well, which would offer you more opportunities to work in a variety of inpatient and outpatient settings if you decide you need a change.

Geriatrics is not for everyone, but I think consulting gives you a lot of unique opportunities. You can do inservices for nursing home staff, teach a geriatrics class at a local pharmacy school, precept students, expand into private practice to provide drug therapy consultations for individuals in their homes, etc... If you think Omnicare would be a good fit for you, I say go for it.

 

[MustLoveDrugs]

The pharmacist that I shadowed rarely saw her patients face to face, and many of them were advanced alzheimer's, etc. I just thought the patient population would be too depressing to work with. At least in other settings you will typically get a mixture of ages.

That's a good point. Make sure you like psych/neuro because you're going to be dealing with a lot of Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc...

 

[womp]

It's not that bad to do MD after your 6 year program. Think of it as having done a 2 year masters. Lots of med students have done a masters, MPH etc. Your PharmD training won't be all wasted either.

If you don't like patients at all you can do radiology or path. If you are okay with some patients (just not your typical drug-seeking ER patient or screaming child) you can do anesthesiology or surgery.