The Future of Pharmacy - R.Phs function as Glorified Pharmacy Techs!

[RXDOC1986]

There are many intelligent, knowledgeable Pharmacists on this forum. Question for y'all?
I have been pondering the many threads on the job market, job security, pay scale, and the future of pharmacy practice. There is a disconnect with our education and financial outlay, and the type, and scope of employment that await the majority of our grads. In most every other country, pharmacy is a 3-4 year BS level or Technical level degree, with pay commensurate with the time and effort (and tuition) applied for by the student.
Looking at 95% of jobs out there, staffing retail, clinic, hospital settings, and over 40 years of personal experience, most of our responsibilities can be delegated to Tech Level training. With the advent of, SOFTWARE, comprehensive online references, and "Google", anyone can perform over 99% of daily jobs.
Why not make the education/degree/number of years and tuition outlay, match the jobs, instead of vice versa. ASHP is exploring new avenues of job engagement to justify and expand our current job descriptions.
The Pharm.D. and PGY-1 (2) add-on further limits our future jobs and employment opportunities.
Why not create an entry level pharmacy degree, obtainable in a Tech. School or community college, just a bit above a Cert. Pharmacy Technician. Because that would be just about all we need to do Retail and Hospital staffing jobs.
I know that the academic establishment and state boards would absolutely hate this new venue. Retail and Hospital management would welcome this change. Graduates would be able and willing to work for $40-50/hr, having invested minimum time and money into the degree.
As our profession continues to circle the drain, this would absolutely help revive it. I am not trying to throw shade at our degree and education, but come on! After 37 years as R.Ph., how much have I actually used my education and training with my daily activities?

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[sfachine]

Too many vested interests

 

[projektreverb]

I think it boils down to the same reason medical school admissions are so heavily capped etc, too many vested interests in the current model. Only way I think it will change is if the hand is forced.

 

[Gombrich12]

Why do you think the state boards would be opposed? I think a lot of them would be in favor of going back to the BS model.

 

[RXDOC1986]

Why do you think the state boards would be opposed? I think a lot of them would be in favor of going back to the BS model.

Maybe, maybe not!
Having interacted with a few Different State Boards, I have to say, their primary goal is...... public safety!
NO, just kidding. It is generating revenue through any means.
I had the pleasure to tangle with NABP and Nevada BP last year regarding license transfer. Between the several applications, testing and "reporting" my test results to Nev.BP, it cost me $1000. This is where their head is at.
They all seem to be very regimented in a constipated state of mind.

 

[O.State]

Ok, so they staff the hospitals & retail with the trade-school tech/rphs....

what's the future for the pharmD degree & the PG programs? get rid of them? I wouldnt be opposed to doing just that, just wondering if you see a use for them somewhere

 

[RXDOC1986]

Ok, so they staff the hospitals & retail with the trade-school tech/rphs....

what's the future for the pharmD degree & the PG programs? get rid of them? I wouldnt be opposed to doing just that, just wondering if you see a use for them somewhere

There will always be a need for Pharm.D.s, PGY-1, PGY-2, PGY-3(oh it's coming) trained pharmacists. With the current structure, there are no options available, we just don't need 15000 new Pharm.D.s every year.
Think evolutionary, instead of revolutionary changes!
When I graduated, in 1986, you had the option of BS, or going on to Pharm.D., and the option of PGY-1. There was real choices. I am all for advanced degrees, just not forced on everyone.

 

[Hello2000]

The pharmacy schools are already making millions on the PharmD and their is a line of potential students willing to pay the high fees and 5 years to call themselves a pharmacist

 

[RXDOC1986]

The pharmacy schools are already making millions on the PharmD and their is a line of potential students willing to pay the high fees and 5 years to call themselves a pharmacist

Tru Dat. We can have a vocational track option, less years, less money, and still have the traditional Pharm.D.
With the majority of pharmacists ending in retail, do you really need to study kinetics, nutritional support, or oncology?
Again, you can take the vocational track, graduate in 2-3 yrs, work happily in retail for $35-40 with no loans to pay back.

 

[RxPreceptor]

I’ve been both a technician and RPh for quite some time now going on about 17+ years combined…
I will say it’s super easy to overlook what seems like common sense (from my perspective) from things which require a knowledge base (interactions, medication admin/spacing, vaccine technique, etc.) and actual work experience (insurance adjudication, memorizing imprints, cost savings hacks, work flow efficiency, etc.)

The largest difference I see between RPhs (and maybe a handful of mystical unicorn mega super veteran techs) and your average, but versatile cross trained technician, is speed and efficiency when performing tech work. Assuming RPh being compared is not a new hire, floater, or fish out of water so to say (><). I’m running circles around techs whether mono tasking or multi/sequence tasking

techs certainly can’t counsel or delve into therapeutic inquiries (just requires too much knowledge base and critical thinking as different variables and factors are made known). Even interns struggle a bit (in terms of knowing what to ask the person) and thinking about all the possible solutions (weighing pros and cons) in a timely manner, sometimes requiring a push in the right direction

 

[RXDOC1986]

I’ve been both a technician and RPh for quite some time now going on about 17+ years combined…
I will say it’s super easy to overlook what seems like common sense (from my perspective) from things which require a knowledge base (interactions, medication admin/spacing, vaccine technique, etc.) and actual work experience (insurance adjudication, memorizing imprints, cost savings hacks, work flow efficiency, etc.)

The largest difference I see between RPhs (and maybe a handful of mystical unicorn mega super veteran techs) and your average, but versatile cross trained technician, is speed and efficiency when performing tech work. Assuming RPh being compared is not a new hire, floater, or fish out of water so to say (><). I’m running circles around techs whether mono tasking or multi/sequence tasking

techs certainly can’t counsel or delve into therapeutic inquiries (just requires too much knowledge base and critical thinking as different variables and factors are made known). Even interns struggle a bit (in terms of knowing what to ask the person) and thinking about all the possible solutions (weighing pros and cons) in a timely manner, sometimes requiring a push in the right direction

I have been a pharmTech, intern for 5 yrs, and now pharmacist for 37 years, both full clinical and staffing, Home Infusion, oncology, and Hospital. A Pharm.D., and PGY-1 BCNSP.
I am in no way diminishing our importance and contributions to customers/patients. I am just saying there needs to be a middle ground with a Technical school 2-3 yr, no loans degree. How much of your Pharm.D. education is applied day to day job at CVS?
I am old and slow, but even in my prime, it was hard competing with TECHS with what they do daily.

 

[RxPreceptor]

I have been a pharmTech, intern for 5 yrs, and now pharmacist for 37 years, both full clinical and staffing, Home Infusion, oncology, and Hospital. A Pharm.D., and PGY-1 BCNSP.
I am in no way diminishing our importance and contributions to customers/patients. I am just saying there needs to be a middle ground with a Technical school 2-3 yr, no loans degree. How much of your Pharm.D. education is applied day to day job at CVS?
I am old and slow, but even in my prime, it was hard competing with TECHS with what they do daily.

Plenty of phone calls asking about what could be causing certain side effects, counseling window asking about otc recommendations a plenty, counseling patients on new scripts which monitoring parameters to get to ensure drug safety/what lab values will be more meaningful for monitoring, vaccine recommendations, knowing when to refer

yeah I will agree, RPh’s skills and education are not put to good use in terms of overall time spent daily using vs work that can be done by a well trained technician. More tech help please but not to replace RPh