The future of podiatry

[Pronation]

Yes and no. It takes a long while before a practice becomes profitable through a brand new doctor. And there is quite a large up front cost. Going through associates every year can become very costly. You're not getting the return you think so quickly.

Agree to disagree. It only takes a long time for a practice to become profitable on a new doctor if they are actually compensated like a doctor.

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[PTPuser]

Why do you want to leave?

I won't bore you with an explanation cause I think it's been hashed out many times already on SDN on why this isn't worth it. I don't mind practicing pod, but the ROI and stress just isn't worth it. If I knew this years ago, I wouldn't have done this.

 

[call1800doctorb]

I won't bore you with an explanation cause I think it's been hashed out many times already on SDN on why this isn't worth it. I don't mind practicing pod, but the ROI and stress just isn't worth it. If I knew this years ago, I wouldn't have done this.

I agree. I would tell anyone who asks me that this profession is absolutely not worth it. I would not recommend anyone go into podiatry.

 

[PTPuser]

I agree. I would tell anyone who asks me that this profession is absolutely not worth it. I would not recommend anyone go into podiatry.

I see everything that is being talked about on SDN unfolding in front of my eyes and I am just sadden and depressed. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm just going through the motion but I'm dead inside. And I'm way too early in my career to feel like this.

 

[CutsWithFury]

https://www.hmpgloballearningnetwork.com/site/podiatry/blog/advancing-aco-model-podiatry

The future of podiatry is bright

We do know that Patrick DeHeer only writes about things that are self serving to him right? He is part of the Upperline health which is an ACO podiatry organization. Articles like this shouldn't even be allowed in this national publication because it is so obviously biased.

Upperline health appears to be a better option for new grads but it is the same game. They pay above average private practice salary with benefits but you are still going to be treated like a lab rat. They will track your numbers and to ensure you are hitting like 5-6X your base salary before they even consider you in "bonus territory". The "partners" make the lion share of the profits. I foresee it being hard to partner and you will have to make others significant amount of money for a long time before they would consider you for "partner". Please stay away.

 

[deleted1149159]

We do know that Patrick DeHeer only writes about things that are self serving to him right? He is part of the Upperline health which is an ACO podiatry organization. Articles like this shouldn't even be allowed in this national publication because it is so obviously biased.

Upperline health appears to be a better option for new grads but it is the same game. They pay above average private practice salary with benefits but you are still going to be treated like a lab rat. They will track your numbers and to ensure you are hitting like 5-6X your base salary before they even consider you in "bonus territory". The "partners" make the lion share of the profits. I foresee it being hard to partner and you will have to make others significant amount of money for a long time before they would consider you for "partner". Please stay away.

My biggest issue with ACOs is that your "quality of care" is determined by your patients. And that can be a very slippery slope. If you provide great care, but either your bedside manner isn't great, or your patients are extremely non-compliant, which most are, it impacts you directly in the pocket. Nothing great about that at all. Proceed with extreme caution.

One thing I will say is that Patrick and I are close. We have been for decades. He has always been genuine with me and has helped me tremendously over the years. For no reason other than being someone who likes to help others. He has also helped the profession greatly at the APMA level. Say what you will about him, but to me, he has always been a great person, a dear friend and an extraordinary mentor.

 

[deleted1149159]

I see everything that is being talked about on SDN unfolding in front of my eyes and I am just sadden and depressed. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm just going through the motion but I'm dead inside. And I'm way too early in my career to feel like this.

I'm very sorry to hear this. I know how you feel. I do. PM me with your issues and I'd love to help you in any way I can. Sincerely.

 

[Feli]

For private practice I’ve accepted that 100-120 base and 30% after 3x is a “good” offer. The ones with decent benefits/PTO is a plus. Main goal is to find a busy clinic so that hopefully can hit collections first year

This is somewhat true for the small podiatry groups (1-3 docs or less, single or two or maybe three offices). Their offers depend a lot on the owner, how many local residencies and supply/demand, the area demographics, and (mainly) local payers.

For the larger PP with many offices, ancillary services, many hospitals, possibly VC involved, it's quite different. They are essentially just like gas stations, grocery stores, franchise restaurants, etc... a proven and profitable and scalable business. The base is usually at least 50% higher and the benefits better also. You will be expected to produce well, though... the seeing 10-15 patients that a rural solo DPM might expect won't ever fly in a huge Chicago mega-group of DPMs.

 

[Boba Foot]

It sounds similar to a contract from this one…

Academy Foot & Ankle Specialists

They seem to have a perma-ad running on PMnews. But there plenty of other DFW podiatry practices offering similar bases and then this awful tiered bonus system. So it really could be any number of them.

This is exactly the practice I was thinking of too

 

[air bud]

I see everything that is being talked about on SDN unfolding in front of my eyes and I am just sadden and depressed. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm just going through the motion but I'm dead inside. And I'm way too early in my career to feel like this.

So make some radical changes. Nothing is forever. If you are scared of the path that you are going down then don't go down that path.

 

[wakaflocka88]

We do know that Patrick DeHeer only writes about things that are self serving to him right? He is part of the Upperline health which is an ACO podiatry organization. Articles like this shouldn't even be allowed in this national publication because it is so obviously biased.

Upperline health appears to be a better option for new grads but it is the same game. They pay above average private practice salary with benefits but you are still going to be treated like a lab rat. They will track your numbers and to ensure you are hitting like 5-6X your base salary before they even consider you in "bonus territory". The "partners" make the lion share of the profits. I foresee it being hard to partner and you will have to make others significant amount of money for a long time before they would consider you for "partner". Please stay away.

This is spot on and accurate. I know a few people working for Upperline here in California, predatory in some ways. Same goes for Optum which is another growing entity. They both will always pay better starting off than majority of predatory PP groups but at the end of the day, their only goal is to make as much money off you and your patients. In the Bay Area, there’s another emerging private equity group buying up podiatry practices and doing similar stuff as Upperline/Optum. Greatly benefits the owners/partners but minimal long term upside for the associates. But would you rather earn $150k or $90k starting out?

 

[deleted1149159]

This is spot on and accurate. I know a few people working for Upperline here in California, predatory in some ways. Same goes for Optum which is another growing entity. They both will always pay better starting off than majority of predatory PP groups but at the end of the day, their only goal is to make as much money off you and your patients. In the Bay Area, there’s another emerging private equity group buying up podiatry practices and doing similar stuff as Upperline/Optum. Greatly benefits the owners/partners but minimal long term upside for the associates. But would you rather earn $150k or $90k starting out?

I hear these nightmare stories across all medical specialties, where a hospital system buys out a big group, and two years later, the group is desperately trying to cut ties with that system. Before I left VA Beach, it happened to a Gastro group and an Ortho Group. The Ortho group eventually disbanded, only to reform under a different name, with the same docs just to sever ties with the hospital that originally bought their group. It was a mess.

 

[CutsWithFury]

My biggest issue with ACOs is that your "quality of care" is determined by your patients. And that can be a very slippery slope. If you provide great care, but either your bedside manner isn't great, or your patients are extremely non-compliant, which most are, it impacts you directly in the pocket. Nothing great about that at all. Proceed with extreme caution.

One thing I will say is that Patrick and I are close. We have been for decades. He has always been genuine with me and has helped me tremendously over the years. For no reason other than being someone who likes to help others. He has also helped the profession greatly at the APMA level. Say what you will about him, but to me, he has always been a great person, a dear friend and an extraordinary mentor.

Whatever

This is still a biased article that’s being written to highlight Upperline health in several ways…

- to attract gullible new resident grads who are walking into a contract where upperline health is going to extract as much value as possible with little chance to partner.

- to attract private practice groups to upperline health to be bought out so they can join this ACO

Both avenues brings tremendous profit to the founders and partners. This is using podiatry day as its own walking advertisement.

 

[Pronation]

I hear these nightmare stories across all medical specialties, where a hospital system buys out a big group, and two years later, the group is desperately trying to cut ties with that system. Before I left VA Beach, it happened to a Gastro group and an Ortho Group. The Ortho group eventually disbanded, only to reform under a different name, with the same docs just to sever ties with the hospital that originally bought their group. It was a mess.

I’ve heard different stories after a hospital buyout where their compensation went up considerably after they switched to the hospital’s RVU model.

 

[bloxxeeey]

Whatever

This is still a biased article that’s being written to highlight Upperline health in several ways…

- to attract gullible new resident grads who are walking into a contract where upperline health is going to extract as much value as possible with little chance to partner.

- to attract private practice groups to upperline health to be bought out so they can join this ACO

Both avenues brings tremendous profit to the founders and partners. This is using podiatry day as its own walking advertisement.

Any practice whether private, hospital or big podiatry group will be extracting as much value from you as possible. At least a group like this will be somewhat a reasonable salary vs some of these private practice jobs offering 70k with no benefits.

 

[deleted1149159]

Whatever

This is still a biased article that’s being written to highlight Upperline health in several ways…

- to attract gullible new resident grads who are walking into a contract where upperline health is going to extract as much value as possible with little chance to partner.

- to attract private practice groups to upperline health to be bought out so they can join this ACO

Both avenues brings tremendous profit to the founders and partners. This is using podiatry day as its own walking advertisement.

Yes, and?

If you are gullible and don't do your due diligence in this world, you will be taken advantage of. So?

Some people are done with running their own practice. They want to be employees and go home when their day seeing patients is over. So what? Is that a bad thing? Same thing, though. If you sell out and don't do your due diligence, you get taken advantage of. Same old story. So?

I hate to tell you, but everyone makes profit on the work of someone else. In every field. Everywhere. You want Podiatry to be different? Great! Set up a model that works, that doesn't do that, and sell it. See how far you get.

You have an issue with someone using Podiatry Today as a platform. I get that. Take it up with them.

 

[PTPuser]

So make some radical changes. Nothing is forever. If you are scared of the path that you are going down then don't go down that path.

I'm waiting for you to open that ASC and then hire me as an associate 🥴

 

[deleted1149159]

I'm waiting for you to open that ASC and then hire me as an associate 🥴

ASCs aren't the cash cows they used to be. Not even close.

 

[dtrack22]

It was a smaller place, but I think a lot of the PP offers in that area are similar. This person ended up leaving and the next person came in and left as well. Sets up a revolving door. Not sure how that could benefit the practice owner or the associates.

How about this one? Youngest looking guy is the 4th different associate since 2017. The front page still has a group picture with the last associate to leave in it…

North Texas Foot & Ankle

It takes a long while before a practice becomes profitable through a brand new doctor. And there is quite a large up front cost. Going through associates every year can become very costly. You're not getting the return you think so quickly.

Not universally true. Not even close. A good friend owns his practice and has hired 2 associates so far. First had collections of $450-500k first year, $750 second year, just over $900k in year 3. Second one had $450k collections first year, is on pace for somewhere between $700-800k in year two. He only “lost money” on them for the first 6-9 months but they both paid their overhead and made the practice money (not much) in year one. No inpatient work, no call, no wound care. It’s all typical podiatry, office visits, office and outpatient surgery, DME, cash stuff. No Medicaid. Commercial plans without impressive fee schedules and Medicare.

What is the large up front cost? $5-10k for malpractice and credentialing? A few months of salary/base pay, health insurance?

A practice who is actually ready to hire could pay much closer to $200k straight salary and at minimum break even in year one.

 

[deleted1149159]

How about this one? Youngest looking guy is the 4th different associate since 2017



Not universally true. Not even close. A good friend owns his practice and has hired 2 associates so far. First had collections of $450-500k first year, $750 second year, just over $900k in year 3. Second one had $450k collections first year, is on pace for somewhere between $700-800k in year two. He only “lost money” on them for the first 6-9 months but they both paid their overhead and made the practice money (not much) in year one. No inpatient work, no call, no wound care. It’s all typical podiatry, office visits, office and outpatient surgery, DME, cash stuff.

What is the large up front cost? $5-10k for malpractice and credentialing? A few months of salary/base pay, health insurance?

A practice who is actually ready to hire could pay much closer to $200k straight salary and at minimum break even in year one.

I agree. Not universally true. I would say in the majority of cases, though. The great majority. YMMV.

Let's do this. When I throw something like that out, there will always be exceptions. Always. Pointing out the exception is great and wonderful, but basing yourself on those exceptions can be dangerous. And sting you in the long run.

 

[dtrack22]

I agree. Not universally true. I would say in the majority of cases, though. The great majority. YMMV.

Let's do this. When I throw something like that out, there will always be exceptions. Always. Pointing out the exception is great and wonderful, but basing yourself on those exceptions can be dangerous. And sting you in the long run.

The math is the math. There aren’t any significant costs to hire prior to the new associate being put on payroll. Assuming a new associate brings in $400-500k their first year (which is not hard) then the “average” podiatry contract of $100k base plus 30% collections after $350k means the practice makes money. The only way they don’t make money is if the associate only brings in something under $300k. They could bring in $300k doing mostly nail care.

There are only two reasons for a new associate to cause a group to lose money and only one of them is real. They weren’t busy enough to hire in the first place. They are cooking the books to make it look like the associate didn’t make them money so that they can justify continuing the same awful contract for a few more years. Because obviously they need to recoup their investment before they could even think about offering partnership.

It’s not like we are talking about starting positions of $200k. This is podiatry. A minority of podiatry practices are losing money in the first year of a new associate when they are only guaranteeing $100k in pay and minimal benefits.

 

[Utvolsdpm]

How about this one? Youngest looking guy is the 4th different associate since 2017. The front page still has a group picture with the last associate to leave in it…

North Texas Foot & Ankle





I know someone who worked there and I didn’t hear good things. But the more recent place was different (solo pod). I’m pretty confident DFW is full of these crappy spots. I even interviewed for a couple lol.

 

[Feli]

How about this one? Youngest looking guy is the 4th different associate since 2017. ..

Yeah, many of the same types in Detroit area. It's simply a function of many training programs and that they can do it... easy to simply hire a new associate within a month or two. A fair amount of the programs are/were top or high level ones also.

Anyone who says that the greater numbers of grads can just be offset with training or charisma or networking is totally wrong. It's a numbers game, through and through. That's true for any profession. Not every podiatry associate getting churned and burned when they asked to make over 150k is lazy or mediocre trained... many had solid training and were just barking up the wrong tree in a saturated area where they're easily replaced. Those type of areas will expand as schools do.

 

[heybrother]

Anyone joining a Dallas practice needs to know that they may have been bought by private equity.

Partners – StrideCare

stridecare.com

Dtrack's old group has been bought by Stride Care. It seems like they were pretty terrible to work with before they got bought. It can only be worse in the future.

 

[deleted1149159]

The math is the math. There aren’t any significant costs to hire prior to the new associate being put on payroll. Assuming a new associate brings in $400-500k their first year (which is not hard) then the “average” podiatry contract of $100k base plus 30% collections after $350k means the practice makes money. The only way they don’t make money is if the associate only brings in something under $300k. They could bring in $300k doing mostly nail care.

There are only two reasons for a new associate to cause a group to lose money and only one of them is real. They weren’t busy enough to hire in the first place. They are cooking the books to make it look like the associate didn’t make them money so that they can justify continuing the same awful contract for a few more years. Because obviously they need to recoup their investment before they could even think about offering partnership.

It’s not like we are talking about starting positions of $200k. This is podiatry. A minority of podiatry practices are losing money in the first year of a new associate when they are only guaranteeing $100k in pay and minimal benefits.

Although I agree with what you're saying prima facie, most practices don't hire for good reasons, and then get stuck when they realize how much they spent to get a new doctor on board.

 

[heybrother]

I see everything that is being talked about on SDN unfolding in front of my eyes and I am just sadden and depressed. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm just going through the motion but I'm dead inside. And I'm way too early in my career to feel like this.

Gotta find a way to pick yourself up and find your way forward. My hope in telling you the truth about podiatry ahead of time was to try to empower you or at least show you the rocks in the water - not to make it feel like a self fulfilling prophecy. (We are all doomed though)

Consider - when I joined my practice at $75K / 30% - - I was still stupid enough to believe that base wasn't that important because I was going to be busy right away and that you can make money on a 30% contract. You won't be and you probably can't unless you run yourself ragged.

 

[deleted1149159]

Gotta find a way to pick yourself up and find your way forward. My hope in telling you the truth about podiatry ahead of time was to try to empower you or at least show you the rocks in the water - not to make it feel like a self fulfilling prophecy. (We are all doomed though)

Consider - when I joined my practice at $75K / 30% - - I was still stupid enough to believe that base wasn't that important because I was going to be busy right away and that you can make money on a 30% contract. You won't be and you probably can't unless you run yourself ragged.

LOL, no we are not. If you want, shoot me a PM and I am the prototypical horror story of failed associate train wrecks because of who I worked for, and how badly things went. And when I was younger, I would even take part of the blame.

My life is amazing. Been with my wife since we were teens, have three beautiful, healthy kids, have a roof over our heads, clothes on our backs, and food on the table. We are by no means well off, financially, and have been through hell and back, but that's life. Everyone goes through crap. Everyone. Life is about your attitude. You can either chose to let it crush you, or forge ahead, head up, and look to the future. One thing I will say, which will be a topic for a blog is have the courage and fortitude to make a change if you feel you need to. I have done that more than once, and every time it was for something better. Even if it didn't work out, the next step was always an improvement over the last.

 

[thefootfixer]

Any practice whether private, hospital or big podiatry group will be extracting as much value from you as possible. At least a group like this will be somewhat a reasonable salary vs some of these private practice jobs offering 70k with no benefits.

So I spoke to my colleague again who discussed this contract with their employer.
They were told since “malpractice, dues , credentialing fees CME credit blah blah blah” is “taken care of” the associate is making “well over 100k” with those expenses added in.

I told the colleague if he’s a W2 employee those items NEED to be provided to to him. It’s like Walmart hiring a janitor on a w2 pay and then asking the employee to provide the brooms mops and buckets.

It sickens me that a owner would use this as justification of a 70k salary. The only advantage k see if case collection…but even then at what cost

 

[Boba Foot]

So I spoke to my colleague again who discussed this contract with their employer.
They were told since “malpractice, dues , credentialing fees CME credit blah blah blah” is “taken care of” the associate is making “well over 100k” with those expenses added in.

I told the colleague if he’s a W2 employee those items NEED to be provided to to him. It’s like Walmart hiring a janitor on a w2 pay and then asking the employee to provide the brooms mops and buckets.

It sickens me that a owner would use this as justification of a 70k salary. The only advantage k see if case collection…but even then at what cost

That's simply a cost of doing business, not a benefit given to an associate. What dickheads.

 

[underwood]

So I spoke to my colleague again who discussed this contract with their employer.
They were told since “malpractice, dues , credentialing fees CME credit blah blah blah” is “taken care of” the associate is making “well over 100k” with those expenses added in.

I told the colleague if he’s a W2 employee those items NEED to be provided to to him. It’s like Walmart hiring a janitor on a w2 pay and then asking the employee to provide the brooms mops and buckets.

It sickens me that a owner would use this as justification of a 70k salary. The only advantage k see if case collection…but even then at what cost

Even though 70k is way too low for a Base, just wondering if it does have a great collections % or low threshold to reach? Such as maybe 30-35% after bringing 2x base? If not, then why would anyone take this job?

 

[thefootfixer]

Even though 70k is way too low for a Base, just wondering if it does have a great collections % or low threshold to reach? Such as maybe 30-35% after bringing 2x base? If not, then why would anyone take this job?

When I was looking for jobs and researching, I was told that even to JUSTIFY a base salary, collections should exceed 3x that amount.

So for example for a practice to justify having another doctor, on a 70k salary, they should collect $210k minimum. 70k doctor salary, 70k overhead, 70k practice profit.

If you want a 100k salary, they should collect 300k with the same breakdown as above .

If this logic applies to my colleague or not, I can’t say. I also don’t want him to put words in the employers mouth to give them more ammo for this nonsense

 

[heybrother]

When I was looking for jobs and researching, I was told that even to JUSTIFY a base salary, collections should exceed 3x that amount.

So for example for a practice to justify having another doctor, on a 70k salary, they should collect $210k minimum. 70k doctor salary, 70k overhead, 70k practice profit.

If you want a 100k salary, they should collect 300k with the same breakdown as above .

If this logic applies to my colleague or not, I can’t say. I also don’t want him to put words in the employers mouth to give them more ammo for this nonsense

These are just PP obfuscations of math. The numbers will be moved around as they please to justify whatever argument they make.

The business was running before the associate got there and the overhead was being paid without them. Most associates "benefits" are trivial based on the quality of the contracts being shared here. There are in depth discussions of other medical specialities on here that clearly demonstrate podiatry owners routinely keep more money as a percentage than other specialties do.

 

[deleted1149159]

When I was looking for jobs and researching, I was told that even to JUSTIFY a base salary, collections should exceed 3x that amount.

So for example for a practice to justify having another doctor, on a 70k salary, they should collect $210k minimum. 70k doctor salary, 70k overhead, 70k practice profit.

If you want a 100k salary, they should collect 300k with the same breakdown as above .

If this logic applies to my colleague or not, I can’t say. I also don’t want him to put words in the employers mouth to give them more ammo for this nonsense

And this is why we are in such a bad position with such high associate turn around.

If the offices in the practices already exist, and the staff does not expand, why does an associate have 70K overhead. They don't. And practice profit? THAT is the problem. The doctor who started the practice makes no profit. And shouldn't either. The tax on corporate profit are much higher than on income. Any person in business knows that unless you want to pay extreme tax, you don't have a profit. It actually makes more sense to take a loss every year, business wise. So what is this profit and where is it going? Inflating the partners' salary? You betcha. Partners getting more expensive cars paid for by the company? You betcha. All expense paid "conference" trips for the partners? You betcha. Expensive board meeting trips for the partners to have their annual meeting? You betcha.

THIS is EXACTLY what needs to change. You don't hire an associate to squeeze them dry and get every last penny out of them. Or then have a fall guy to buy your practice, that is completely worthless because you didn't plan your retirement properly. You hire an associate because you need someone to cover your 3-4 week patient backlog and start offering new patient appointments within a few days.

 

[air bud]

So I spoke to my colleague again who discussed this contract with their employer.
They were told since “malpractice, dues , credentialing fees CME credit blah blah blah” is “taken care of” the associate is making “well over 100k” with those expenses added in.

I told the colleague if he’s a W2 employee those items NEED to be provided to to him. It’s like Walmart hiring a janitor on a w2 pay and then asking the employee to provide the brooms mops and buckets.

It sickens me that a owner would use this as justification of a 70k salary. The only advantage k see if case collection…but even then at what cost

Buc ees car wash manager is starting at 125k with Benny's

 

[Utvolsdpm]

Buc ees car wash manager is starting at 125k with Benny's

I saw that general manager spot - probably just as good or better than a lot of us are finding I would guess

 

[deleted1138023]

Buc ees car wash manager is starting at 125k with Benny's

travel respiratory therapists getting paid $4.5k a week at my hospital.

 

[CutsWithFury]

Any practice whether private, hospital or big podiatry group will be extracting as much value from you as possible. At least a group like this will be somewhat a reasonable salary vs some of these private practice jobs offering 70k with no benefits.

Are you really comparing hospital employment podiatry positions with private practice podiatry? There is no comparison. Majority of hospital employed podiatrists are making more money, more guaranteed income, benefits, etc. Ask any podiatrist coming out of residency and they would much rather be hospital employed than trying to make it big in the private practice game. When I mean hospital employed I am mean real hospitals. Not IHS or crappy VA hospitals. Even though those hospitals are even better than most private practice podiatry gigs.

 

[CutsWithFury]

Buc ees car wash manager is starting at 125k with Benny's

How many private practice DPMs right now crying seeing that? I bet a lot. You went to school and did residency training for 7 years and you make less than a fast food general manager and have less autonomy than a APRN. Wow...just wow.

 

[deleted1149159]

Are you really comparing hospital employment podiatry positions with private practice podiatry? There is no comparison. Majority of hospital employed podiatrists are making more money, more guaranteed income, benefits, etc. Ask any podiatrist coming out of residency and they would much rather be hospital employed than trying to make it big in the private practice game. When I mean hospital employed I am mean real hospitals. Not IHS or crappy VA hospitals. Even though those hospitals are even better than most private practice podiatry gigs.

What's the ratio of hospital employed vs PP?

 

[air bud]

What's the ratio of hospital employed vs PP?

I think private practice is still like 70 to 80% based on recent acfas surveys maybe closer to 80?

 

[de Ribas]

How many private practice DPMs right now crying seeing that? I bet a lot. You went to school and did residency training for 7 years and you make less than a fast food general manager and have less autonomy than a APRN. Wow...just wow.

I hear a lot of jobs paying 100k+ for minimal or no education. Surg tech at our hospital makes at least 4k per week with overtime/extra shifts. Crazy. 3 years of schooling, basically no responsibility, no stress, just operating back table and they are making more money than many pods. I don't even mention nurses, CRNAs. IM working 1 week on and 1 week off basically working half a year starting out at least 350k at our hospital. It is sickening to see pod offers less than 150k. This is clear sign that podiatry is oversaturated and not needed at many places. I know hospitals in some areas (not bad places) looking for physicians and will pay any money but they cannot find ER, IM and other physicians. I haven't heard that to be the case in podiatry. It doesn't exist. In podiatry, candidates look for jobs. In MD/DO world, hospitals look for candidates.

 

[CutsWithFury]

What's the ratio of hospital employed vs PP?

way more private practice podiatrists out there than hospital employed. Way more.

 

[deleted1093615]

I’m a pod student reading all this….
makes me consider cutting my losses and going to a trade school before I’m in so much debt that I can’t leave.

 

[dtrack22]

I’m a pod student reading all this….
makes me consider cutting my losses and going to a trade school before I’m in so much debt that I can’t leave.

Not the worst idea

 

[heybrother]

I’m a pod student reading all this….
makes me consider cutting my losses and going to a trade school before I’m in so much debt that I can’t leave.

If you leave and your podiatry school shuts down your professors will have to go back to being associates making $80K. You wouldn't do that to your professors would you?

 

[de Ribas]

I’m a pod student reading all this….
makes me consider cutting my losses and going to a trade school before I’m in so much debt that I can’t leave.

Go study for MCAT and go to MD/DO school if you want to be a physician. Period. Spend 1 year, spend 2. There are bunch of people who start in late 20s or early 30s. No need to rush. Schools are not going anywhere. Don't go into Podiatry.

 

[air bud]

If you leave and your podiatry school shuts down your professors will have to go back to being associates making $80K. You wouldn't do that to your professors would you?

Excellent.

 

[deleted1149159]

I’m a pod student reading all this….
makes me consider cutting my losses and going to a trade school before I’m in so much debt that I can’t leave.

Don't. It's a wonderful profession with great people out there. This forum is a microcosm of naysayers. Yes, there are issues. Yes, you can get screwed. Anywhere, doing anything. If you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. Do well in school, get the most you can out of your future residency, get out into the real world and do good work. Be a good person. It'll work out. I promise.

 

[Utvolsdpm]

If you leave and your podiatry school shuts down your professors will have to go back to being associates making $80K. You wouldn't do that to your professors would you?

They don’t make more than that do they?

 

[CutsWithFury]

They don’t make more than that do they?

Scholl professors make like 120k per year. That’s it. No bonuses. Some staff augment their earnings by working part time. It’s not a great gig which is why you have people teaching that should have no business teaching.