The importance of being "super busy while nailing a 4.0 post-bac"

[Member2223]

This has been a source of contention for me recently. I've just started my post-bacc (DIY) this past summer, and plan to have completed 45-50 credits in two years. This is the fastest that I can complete it at my local university due to the sequence of pre-requisites.

This semester I am only taking 8 credits (Physics, Bio, + 2x labs), volunteering 4 hours a week at a local shelter, and TA-ing for a class (8 hours a week); however, there is this uneasy feeling that I am not doing enough and that my schedule isn't rigorous enough to look good. To make things worse, I have yet to start obtaining any significant clinical experience.

However, I am quite stretched out by my current schedule and am unsure if I can handle more. I do have an opportunity to add on research with a physician who I am close with, as well as to start applying for hospice volunteering positions where I plan to get a majority of my clinical hours through.

My coursework: (all labs included):
Summer '22: General Chemistry: 8 credits, (4.0)
Fall '22: Physics/Bio: 8 credits, (4.0 highly likely)
Spring '23: Physics/Bio/Biostats: 12 credits
Summer '23: Organic Chemistry: 8 credits
Fall '23: Molecular Bio/A&P: 8 credits
Spring '24: Biochem/A&P: 8 credits
Summer'24 thru Summer '25: Gap Year: MCAT + Clinical + Apps
Summer '25: Apply

I was wondering if:
- I could receive some feedback on my plan (current semester and long term)
- I could receive your opinions on the balance between "rigor" and "busy schedule" vs "4.0"

FWIW, I'm on the path of "reinvention" as my cGPA is a 3.01 on transcript but comes out to a tad under 3.0 if reweighed for earlier withdrawals in my early uni years. I'm a career changer 4 years out of the Finance industry.

Fortunately, my sGPA is almost untouched, so I am really counting on knocking my post-bacc and MCAT out of the park to put to rest any doubts that I can "do science", though I would also like to stay relatively busy to demonstrate rigor while obtaining my post-bacc GPA, if that has any material consideration. However, my GPA is my highest priority, as it's my saving grace form a sub-par undergrad one.

I appreciate any insight.

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[Mr.Smile12]

You must learn to be comfortable with a balanced schedule. You don't get bonus points for overloading or becoming a martyr to your premed dreams.

 

[Member2223]

You must learn to be comfortable with a balanced schedule. You don't get bonus points for overloading or becoming a martyr to your premed dreams.

Exactly where I am leaning towards. Maintaining a high enough GPA is the key selling point, so I should try to preserve that. You think 8 credits per semester is enough then?

 

[Goro]

Exactly where I am leaning towards. Maintaining a high enough GPA is the key selling point, so I should try to preserve that. You think 8 credits per semester is enough then?

Yes

 

[Tryhj11]

This has been a source of contention for me recently. I've just started my post-bacc (DIY) this past summer, and plan to have completed 45-50 credits in two years. This is the fastest that I can complete it at my local university due to the sequence of pre-requisites.

This semester I am only taking 8 credits (Physics, Bio, + 2x labs), volunteering 4 hours a week at a local shelter, and TA-ing for a class (8 hours a week); however, there is this uneasy feeling that I am not doing enough and that my schedule isn't rigorous enough to look good. To make things worse, I have yet to start obtaining any significant clinical experience.

However, I am quite stretched out by my current schedule and am unsure if I can handle more. I do have an opportunity to add on research with a physician who I am close with, as well as to start applying for hospice volunteering positions where I plan to get a majority of my clinical hours through.

My coursework: (all labs included):
Summer '22: General Chemistry: 8 credits, (4.0)
Fall '22: Physics/Bio: 8 credits, (4.0 highly likely)
Spring '23: Physics/Bio/Biostats: 12 credits
Summer '23: Organic Chemistry: 8 credits
Fall '23: Molecular Bio/A&P: 8 credits
Spring '24: Biochem/A&P: 8 credits
Summer'24 thru Summer '25: Gap Year: MCAT + Clinical + Apps
Summer '25: Apply

I was wondering if:
- I could receive some feedback on my plan (current semester and long term)
- I could receive your opinions on the balance between "rigor" and "busy schedule" vs "4.0"

FWIW, I'm on the path of "reinvention" as my cGPA is a 3.01 on transcript but comes out to a tad under 3.0 if reweighed for earlier withdrawals in my early uni years. I'm a career changer 4 years out of the Finance industry.

Fortunately, my sGPA is almost untouched, so I am really counting on knocking my post-bacc and MCAT out of the park to put to rest any doubts that I can "do science", though I would also like to stay relatively busy to demonstrate rigor while obtaining my post-bacc GPA, if that has any material consideration. However, my GPA is my highest priority, as it's my saving grace form a sub-par undergrad one.

I appreciate any insight.

- Why don't you take 3 courses during the fall/spring semesters? - for some you have only two courses.
- Taking 8 credits of Chem each summer is not ideal due to the amount of work. I would advise taking at most 1 course over the summer semester.

 

[petomed]

So I'll break this down with my interpretation of rigor, which is synonymous with the number of hours each week you're putting in. You didn't mention working part-time or full-time while performing your other activities, so I'll assume no hours are being allocated towards work.

We were told in undergrad that each credit hour we take per semester should equate to 4 hours of total work each week in order to hit an A. So, if you're taking 8 credit hours, this is a presumed 8*4 = 32 hours of your time each week dedicated towards academics, at least in my book.

You also mentioned 4 hrs at a shelter + 8 hrs TA'ing each week = 12 hours.

This puts you at a running total of 44 hrs of documentable 'stuff' each week. It'll look good if you make the 4.0 GPA while doing this, but honestly I would shoot for more hours. Now, if you're working full-time on top of this (40 hrs), that amounts to 88 hrs each week and I'd definitely tell you to relax and be more balanced. Working part-time for 20 hrs on top of the 44, I'd say that's pretty balanced.

For reference, I did a full-time job (40 hrs), one course each semester (4 credits = 16 hrs), and 6 hrs volunteering at a local ER each week. This put my documentable 'stuff' at 40 + 16 + 6 = 62 hrs each week. That was enough to get multiple acceptances, even though it was only one class at a time.

You mentioned that you can't take any more classes due to course sequencing at your college, but that you do have physician-led research or hospice'ish volunteering opportunities. Being a hospice volunteer, provided that it puts you in real and uncomfortable patient-interfacing, situations--would look GREAT on your medical school applications.

Given your constraints, I'd highly recommend getting to 60+ total documentable 'stuff' hours each week. Specifically, immediately begin hospice volunteering since it's on your doorstep. I'd double down on this recommendation because you also mentioned you don't yet have clinical experience.

Otherwise, it looks like you're doing a really good job trying to plan things out. Keep this up, make the A's, and I think it'll all lead to some great things!

 

[Member2223]

So I'll break this down with my interpretation of rigor, which is synonymous with the number of hours each week you're putting in. You didn't mention working part-time or full-time while performing your other activities, so I'll assume no hours are being allocated towards work.

We were told in undergrad that each credit hour we take per semester should equate to 4 hours of total work each week in order to hit an A. So, if you're taking 8 credit hours, this is a presumed 8*4 = 32 hours of your time each week dedicated towards academics, at least in my book.

You also mentioned 4 hrs at a shelter + 8 hrs TA'ing each week = 12 hours.

This puts you at a running total of 44 hrs of documentable 'stuff' each week. It'll look good if you make the 4.0 GPA while doing this, but honestly I would shoot for more hours. Now, if you're working full-time on top of this (40 hrs), that amounts to 88 hrs each week and I'd definitely tell you to relax and be more balanced. Working part-time for 20 hrs on top of the 44, I'd say that's pretty balanced.

For reference, I did a full-time job (40 hrs), one course each semester (4 credits = 16 hrs), and 6 hrs volunteering at a local ER each week. This put my documentable 'stuff' at 40 + 16 + 6 = 62 hrs each week. That was enough to get multiple acceptances, even though it was only one class at a time.

You mentioned that you can't take any more classes due to course sequencing at your college, but that you do have physician-led research or hospice'ish volunteering opportunities. Being a hospice volunteer, provided that it puts you in real and uncomfortable patient-interfacing, situations--would look GREAT on your medical school applications.

Given your constraints, I'd highly recommend getting to 60+ total documentable 'stuff' hours each week. Specifically, immediately begin hospice volunteering since it's on your doorstep. I'd double down on this recommendation because you also mentioned you don't yet have clinical experience.

Otherwise, it looks like you're doing a really good job trying to plan things out. Keep this up, make the A's, and I think it'll all lead to some great things!

Thanks for the perspective, gaining hospice experience is next on my actionable to-do list.

 

[petomed]

Thanks for the perspective, gaining hospice experience is next on my actionable to-do list.

No problem. A few things I didn't appreciate starting out is why the clinical experience is so crucial. Here's the overview

#1 you need to be able to write AT LENGTH in your applications to schools why medicine is the only path for you. You can flap your lips all day long about this and that, but you need to have actions and stories to substantiate what you're saying. In other words, you need to have already walked the walk before you can talk the talk.

#2, and arguably the most important--you might find out that you hate medicine altogether, or that there are certain aspects of medicine that turn you off. Some people begin their clinical experience hours and basically run from medicine. Others use those experiences to guide them toward other areas of medicine that they know suite their interests and personality better. You will simply not be able to have mature conversations with admissions committees unless you have clinical experiences to lean on.

#3 you need letters of recommendation. Let me repeat, you need letters of recommendation. Good letters, not rubber stamped ones. The only way you're getting those is if you get in the clinical trenches. It's one thing to say "I really enjoyed my time as a hospice volunteer and do feel I was able to make a difference." It's another thing ENTIRELY if your volunteer coordinator says those words in a glowing letter of recommendation.

 

[Member2223]

No problem. A few things I didn't appreciate starting out is why the clinical experience is so crucial. Here's the overview

#1 you need to be able to write AT LENGTH in your applications to schools why medicine is the only path for you. You can flap your lips all day long about this and that, but you need to have actions and stories to substantiate what you're saying. In other words, you need to have already walked the walk before you can talk the talk.

#2, and arguably the most important--you might find out that you hate medicine altogether, or that there are certain aspects of medicine that turn you off. Some people begin their clinical experience hours and basically run from medicine. Others use those experiences to guide them toward other areas of medicine that they know suite their interests and personality better. You will simply not be able to have mature conversations with admissions committees unless you have clinical experiences to lean on.

#3 you need letters of recommendation. Let me repeat, you need letters of recommendation. Good letters, not rubber stamped ones. The only way you're getting those is if you get in the clinical trenches. It's one thing to say "I really enjoyed my time as a hospice volunteer and do feel I was able to make a difference." It's another thing ENTIRELY if your volunteer coordinator says those words in a glowing letter of recommendation.

These are excellent points, you really hit the nail on the head. Currently, the exposure to medicine that I have is all from a second-hand basis: shadowing with a few physicians (plenty of hours though, almost 200) and also through my brother who is an MS4. Though I find medicine attractive when viewed from those lenses, you're right, I won't truly know until I get into the trenches myself.

I was wondering, going off that point, if you still think that hospice would be a good candidate in order to provide an adequate picture of medicine, given that the unique nature of palliative care might not be the best representation of a traditional medical setting.

As for LORs, I am on a good track so far. I have one from my chemistry professor and aim to also have one from my physics professor. Additionally, I have two from physicians that I've shadowed and one from the founder at the organization (non-clinal) that I volunteer at. Of course, the more the better so that I can select the best ones to submit, so that is a continued priority in mind.

 

[Meridian32]

I was wondering, going off that point, if you still think that hospice would be a good candidate in order to provide an adequate picture of medicine, given that the unique nature of palliative care might not be the best representation of a traditional medical setting.

I completely agree with @petomed that hospice volunteering would be an excellent choice. And, to be clear, it will absolutely provide an adequate picture of what "traditional" medicine is like. Many years ago, I was a hospice volunteer for two years before applying to medical school. Now, I'm at the tail end of medical training - I'm in my last year of hematology/oncology fellowship, training to be an adult blood and cancer doctor. Looking back, my hospice volunteering was SUPER important and much more educational compared to the "normal" hospital volunteering I did. End-of-life care is INCREDIBLY important in adult medicine - if you take care of adults, regardless of your specialty, you WILL care for patients at the end of life, and will need to know about hospice and palliative care. Knowing firsthand what hospice involves has been incredibly helpful for me throughout residency and fellowship and has helped me counsel and recommend hospice to countless patients over the years.

Concurrent with hospice volunteering, I also did "normal" volunteering on a hospital ward. I found that to be unbelievably boring, particularly compared to being a hospice volunteer. Looking back, my "normal" hospital volunteering was not at all educational for me, while hospice volunteering was absolutely educational and has also been helpful to my clinical practice as the years have gone by.

Summary - you should DEFINITELY volunteer in hospice!

 

[Member2223]

Thank you for sharing, this is very inspiring and I'm sure it was incredibly impactful for you as you've said. I hope to also experience this and will be submitting my apps to various hospices over the weekend.

I completely agree with @petomed that hospice volunteering would be an excellent choice. And, to be clear, it will absolutely provide an adequate picture of what "traditional" medicine is like. Many years ago, I was a hospice volunteer for two years before applying to medical school. Now, I'm at the tail end of medical training - I'm in my last year of hematology/oncology fellowship, training to be an adult blood and cancer doctor. Looking back, my hospice volunteering was SUPER important and much more educational compared to the "normal" hospital volunteering I did. End-of-life care is INCREDIBLY important in adult medicine - if you take care of adults, regardless of your specialty, you WILL care for patients at the end of life, and will need to know about hospice and palliative care. Knowing firsthand what hospice involves has been incredibly helpful for me throughout residency and fellowship and has helped me counsel and recommend hospice to countless patients over the years.

Concurrent with hospice volunteering, I also did "normal" volunteering on a hospital ward. I found that to be unbelievably boring, particularly compared to being a hospice volunteer. Looking back, my "normal" hospital volunteering was not at all educational for me, while hospice volunteering was absolutely educational and has also been helpful to my clinical practice as the years have gone by.

Summary - you should DEFINITELY volunteer in hospice!

 

[Sn00pygrrl]

As a palliative care NP-->med school applicant, I couldn't agree more about how much hospice experience will benefit you as a future physician. In nearly every facet of medicine, having high-quality goals conversations with patients and families as they face very difficult moments in their lives is a skill you just can't learn overnight and there are very few people who are innately good at it. Getting a head start on honing these communication skills early through volunteering as a hospice volunteer (or a crisis counselor) will help you immeasurably as a medical student and eventually as a physician.

Add to that the importance of understanding that A LOT of medicine is maintaining or improving patients' quality of life--NOT necessarily "curing" them of an illness. Many people who are in frequent contact with medical care are people living with chronic, incurable conditions like heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, bipolar disorder, etc. There's no curing these conditions--the focus of care is on making patients' lives more tolerable. That holds whether you work in primary care, ER, ICU, hospitalist, subspecialties, etc. You have to be comfortable with the fact that for the most part, you're not going to cure the majority of your patients' conditions.

And lastly, many of your patients will die and it is important to develop a healthy respect for and compassionate approach to the dying process. Many clinicians I work with are uncomfortable with death because of what it triggers for them personally about their own mortality. Working in palliative care has helped me be less fearful about my own mortality because I have taken care of so many people at this point who have died and have had to work through so much grief that grief itself does not feel unnatural or scary to me anymore.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

I definitely advocate for hospice volunteering, as well as any other exposures to medicine you can acquire over the next few years. However, your GPA absolutely, without question, can not falter at the expense of anything else. And by that I mean you need to treat anything lower than an A- as failing. Your main goal is to prove to them that whatever led to your poor performances previously do not impact you moving forward. You must ace your coursework. Unrelated to post-bacc, but relevant to the topic, if I could go back to undergrad and slap some sense into myself to take more 12 hour semesters and less 17/18 hour semesters, I absolutely would. Your success outweighs your ability to handle multiple courses. If you think a given semester is going to put you at risk of not getting all As, you need to either cut a class or cut something else out of your life to dedicate adequate time to ensuring you get an A in every course.

It isn't necessarily right, but adcoms will take the higher GPA and less volunteering over the lower GPA and copious amounts of volunteering 99/100 times.

 

[Member2223]

I definitely advocate for hospice volunteering, as well as any other exposures to medicine you can acquire over the next few years. However, your GPA absolutely, without question, can not falter at the expense of anything else. And by that I mean you need to treat anything lower than an A- as failing. Your main goal is to prove to them that whatever led to your poor performances previously do not impact you moving forward. You must ace your coursework. Unrelated to post-bacc, but relevant to the topic, if I could go back to undergrad and slap some sense into myself to take more 12 hour semesters and less 17/18 hour semesters, I absolutely would. Your success outweighs your ability to handle multiple courses. If you think a given semester is going to put you at risk of not getting all As, you need to either cut a class or cut something else out of your life to dedicate adequate time to ensuring you get an A in every course.

It isn't necessarily right, but adcoms will take the higher GPA and less volunteering over the lower GPA and copious amounts of volunteering 99/100 times.

Great points, thank you for your advice. My GPA is absolutely my highest priority.