The Inaugural ATSU COM-Mesa Class of 2011

Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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HopefulDoc40 said:
This post kinda belongs in the financial aid forum but I wanted to see what everyone's thoughts were on the cost of Mesa and how they are going to fund their med school education. Unfortunately, I am going to be paying for everything myself, I have about 5k from the AmeriCorps I am going to use but that is all I have coming in, which is nothing. I plan on using a combo of Perkins (hopefully) and Stafford loans to cover tuition and living expenses. Just using Mesa's model budget ~$69k a year, I'm/we are looking at almost $280,000 of debt plus interest. This is a hefty price tag, especially considering my interest and desire to practice in primary care as of now. Anyone have thoughts or suggestions beyond the little packet of financial aid/scholarship info they gave us?
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As I was born and raised in Arizona, I am applying for the Arizona Medical Student Loan, which pays the full tuition plus up to $20k for living expenses. In return, I just have to come back to Arizona to practice a primary care specialty for four years post residency, which is fine with me. If that doesn't pan out, I have been looking into the HPSP with the navy. If that looks like a bad choice, then I will finance it myself and probably do a loan repayment through PHS or NHSC. Hopefully they'll get the requirement for a graduating class waived through NHSC scholarship like they did for the dental school.
 
By the way, it is 96 degrees F today. It's going to be a very very hot and loooooooooooong summer.
 
Yee-haw, it was in the upper 40's today in Missouri. Can't wait to ditch my pants and winter coat!
 
For those that have been accepted, how long did it take for you to get your acceptance packet in the mail? I was accepted 3/9 but am still waiting for it. Wanna find out by when I need to sell my house!
 
v-lander said:
For those that have been accepted, how long did it take for you to get your acceptance packet in the mail? I was accepted 3/9 but am still waiting for it. Wanna find out by when I need to sell my house!
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I think it was about a 1-1.5 weeks. Orientation starts July 30, I believe.

We need more action on this thread....the other 2011 classes are showing us up!🙂
 
the packet did take longer than expected....... V-lander - we're gonna have to make a few runs to San Diego from AZ to see the Ocean!
 
So, I'm going to bring up the issue of our clinical experience being almost all at the CHC's again, because it still bugs me, probably b/c we have so little info about it. Hypothetical situation: We're doing our rotation in OB/GYN at the clinic, one of the patients we've been assigned to goes into labor. We go to the hospital with them...but how much instruction are we going to get from doctors who've never seen us before? We'll end up just standing in the corner. I get the feeling that MS-III and MS-IV students are slightly more involved during their clerkship. The only things that we're going to learn at the CHC is how to do check-ups and refer patients to specialists. According to Dr. Woods, that's what 95% of physicians do...but don't you want to have some exposure to more serious illnesses and how to treat them? The only time we'll have that exposure is during electives in year 4. Any thoughts on this? Should I not be going to this school if I'm not committed to the non-hospital route just yet?
 
GreenShirt said:
So, I'm going to bring up the issue of our clinical experience being almost all at the CHC's again, because it still bugs me, probably b/c we have so little info about it. Hypothetical situation: We're doing our rotation in OB/GYN at the clinic, one of the patients we've been assigned to goes into labor. We go to the hospital with them...but how much instruction are we going to get from doctors who've never seen us before? We'll end up just standing in the corner. I get the feeling that MS-III and MS-IV students are slightly more involved during their clerkship. The only things that we're going to learn at the CHC is how to do check-ups and refer patients to specialists. According to Dr. Woods, that's what 95% of physicians do...but don't you want to have some exposure to more serious illnesses and how to treat them? The only time we'll have that exposure is during electives in year 4. Any thoughts on this? Should I not be going to this school if I'm not committed to the non-hospital route just yet?
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Not sure it matters in the end- we will get all of our residency experience in the hospital, and as long as you have seen how they work , you'll be fine.... BUT- I am qualifying this confidence boosting statement with this- I still have yet to give up my seat at another school that is very established until I'm sure, and yes it hurts to do so! $$$$$ I do know, however, that Dr. Woods and the staff are not unaware that to send students out into the world w/o surgical and hospital expertise/training would not be ethical or fair. The relationships with hospitals in AZ. basically guarantees anyone in that area great set of rotations. As far as the other clinics go, we will all get hospital rotations, and if not, they will pull those ppl back to AZ. I would really like a copy of the curriculum as they see it now, and would really like to know more about the rotations as well, but I do not think they have all of those set up as of now, so it may be premature.
 
I talked to Dr. McWilliams and he said that pretty much all of our rotations would be done at the CHC: family, internal, peds, OB/GYN, and psych. This only leaves EM and surgery, which of course would be at a hospital (except for the CHC's which have an ER, of course). That means that we only have 1-2 hospital based clerkship (plus elective rotations), which might be enough (*shrug*). But of the first 5 areas, I feel that in a non-hospital setting all we're going to experience is check-ups. I'm sure we'll develop great patient history/exam skills and it's possible that unless you're planning on going into one of these areas in a hospital setting, then you don't need more.

Also, they say that we will follow our patients to the hospital if they need treatment there, which is supposed to expose us to the hospital side of things, but how much instruction will we get if we show up there with the patient? I feel like we'll just stand around and get in the way.
 
Nevermind, just got the packet today. I was slightly disappointed, however, because I was looking for something in the way of a start date this summer. Anyone heard? Guess I'll make some calls tomorrow.

MD/DO Almost, yeah some SD trips might be in order. I have a cousin there who surfs pretty regularly. I'm already pondering a trip or two to some secluded spots in Mexico. I'm itching like crazy for some surf. Hope there's breaks enough during the first year that this'll be a possibility.
 
v-lander said:
Nevermind, just got the packet today. I was slightly disappointed, however, because I was looking for something in the way of a start date this summer. Anyone heard? Guess I'll make some calls tomorrow.

MD/DO Almost, yeah some SD trips might be in order. I have a cousin there who surfs pretty regularly. I'm already pondering a trip or two to some secluded spots in Mexico. I'm itching like crazy for some surf. Hope there's breaks enough during the first year that this'll be a possibility.
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lots of surf here for a while now... all we need is a weekend. About 5hrs to drive, and $133.00 to fly to SD from Phoenix.... As long as we can afford to sacrifice a few hours of studying to drive! :laugh: :laugh:
 
GreenShirt said:
I talked to Dr. McWilliams and he said that pretty much all of our rotations would be done at the CHC: family, internal, peds, OB/GYN, and psych. This only leaves EM and surgery, which of course would be at a hospital (except for the CHC's which have an ER, of course). That means that we only have 1-2 hospital based clerkship (plus elective rotations), which might be enough (*shrug*). But of the first 5 areas, I feel that in a non-hospital setting all we're going to experience is check-ups. I'm sure we'll develop great patient history/exam skills and it's possible that unless you're planning on going into one of these areas in a hospital setting, then you don't need more.

Also, they say that we will follow our patients to the hospital if they need treatment there, which is supposed to expose us to the hospital side of things, but how much instruction will we get if we show up there with the patient? I feel like we'll just stand around and get in the way.
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wow.. this is a hard decision. Luckily, my CHC has an ER, but I would like to do more rotations in a Hospital than just one for Surgery.... when did you speak to him?
 
I think Greenshirt was right in that our orientation starts on July 30th. Are our elective rotations going to be limited by what is available in the area of the CHC or do most of the CHC and surrounding hospitals cover most every elective?
 
By the way, anyone else of the 3/8 interviewees been accepted? I remember meeting and talking with several, hoping they'd get accepted, too.
 
MD/DO ALMOST said:
wow.. this is a hard decision. Luckily, my CHC has an ER, but I would like to do more rotations in a Hospital than just one for Surgery.... when did you speak to him?
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I sent him a couple of e-mails last week, but he stopped answering after the second one. I'll PM you the text.
 
HopefulDoc40 said:
I think Greenshirt was right in that our orientation starts on July 30th. Are our elective rotations going to be limited by what is available in the area of the CHC or do most of the CHC and surrounding hospitals cover most every elective?
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I think the electives are the same as your audition rotations. You have to arrange them yourself at the hospitals/in the specialties where you want to apply for residency.
 
I think we will have a big advantage having years 2-4 in a CHC. I am currently a medical assistant at a CHC in San Francisco. The doctors and Nurse Practitioners I work with are amazing and there is much comraderie among all the staff, much more so than at other hospitals I have observed.

Because our population consists of the underserved, homeless, immigrants and young people without insurance we see everything under the sun: rare diseases, accident victims, drug addictions, diabetes, cancer, etc. Everyday is full of new stories and follow up with long term clients.

All of the practitioners are open to discussing their cases and are excited about what they do. All interesting people. No stuffy shirts. One of the doctors just got arrested today at an antiwar protest. Gotta love San Franciso!

I believe that three years working and learning at a CHC will be much better than rotating through every month or so at a new place where you have to earn the trust of a new staff and learn a new system.

Afterall, if you want to go into surgeory then you'll learn it all during your residency right? Or better yet. I have friend who spent a month of his fourth year in the Phillippines and did surgeory every day.
 
inthe415 said:
I think we will have a big advantage having years 2-4 in a CHC. I am currently a medical assistant at a CHC in San Francisco. The doctors and Nurse Practitioners I work with are amazing and there is much comraderie among all the staff, much more so than at other hospitals I have observed.

Because our population consists of the underserved, homeless, immigrants and young people without insurance we see everything under the sun: rare diseases, accident victims, drug addictions, diabetes, cancer, etc. Everyday is full of new stories and follow up with long term clients.

All of the practitioners are open to discussing their cases and are excited about what they do. All interesting people. No stuffy shirts. One of the doctors just got arrested today at an antiwar protest. Gotta love San Franciso!

I believe that three years working and learning at a CHC will be much better than rotating through every month or so at a new place where you have to earn the trust of a new staff and learn a new system.

Afterall, if you want to go into surgeory then you'll learn it all during your residency right? Or better yet. I have friend who spent a month of his fourth year in the Phillippines and did surgeory every day.
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I agree that the camaraderie will be great between the CHC staff and the students, and the students themselves (after all there will be the 10 of us stuck together for 3 yrs). It'll be great for getting LOR's, since we'll know the Dr.'s for 3 years. I'm just worried about quality of teaching (since the staff won't be used to having students around initially) and in what ways the exposure will be different from what students normally experience in their clerkships. On the plus side, our days will probably be shorter (I'm assuming the clinic runs 9-5 hrs). No morning rounds? No on-call? No 12-hr shifts?
 
at some sites they do have training programs for nursing, health care occupations, etc, so there is some teaching apparatus. also, there are currently med students rotating in at my site, so they are pretty used to what's going on. I think a LOT will depend on which CHC you're at.
 
Anyone started to look at housing options or have any suggestions for places to live in mesa?
 
HopefulDoc40 said:
Anyone started to look at housing options or have any suggestions for places to live in mesa?
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My tour guide suggested you actually travel out to Mesa to check out places before you move in b/c there are good and bad neighborhood close together. I'm trying to decide if I should just take my chances considering it will be like $500+ for me to go out their again.
 
they emailed me the info last week with attached word files. there's some forums on the myatsu with currents students posting about housing, etc. if you don't have that yet, there is a forum on sdn with the atsu dental students you could ask for help. for me i'm concerned with the 1 year logistics. most likely i'm going to drive down with the bare necessities, which looks like its bean bags and inflatable chairs for a year. however, i have also looked at fully furnished vacation houses, which aren't that badly expensive, and can house more people. i just dont know if we could stay at the house for a year. maybe you could work it out with the owners individually.
 
As far as housing goes, I'm probably in a different boat than many of you (wife and child in addition to myself). We're looking more into renting/buying a detached home as opposed to an apartment or condo. I'm liking what I see so far (not as expensive as I've heard the area would be). We've also been really checking out the middle and north part of Gilbert in addition to the areas of Mesa surrounding the school. Gilbert seems to be more quiet, family oriented and a little safer, not to mention there's a lot available in the way of rental houses within 10 miles of the school. Here's a couple of the sites I've been using. There are tons more but it's a good start.

http://www.rentalhouses.com/search_results.php?state=AZ&city=Gilbert&searchnew=1&step=last

http://www.rentalhouses.com/search_results.php?state=AZ&city=Mesa&searchnew=1&step=last

http://www.desertwide.com/rentsum.lasso
 
GreenShirt said:
My tour guide suggested you actually travel out to Mesa to check out places before you move in b/c there are good and bad neighborhood close together. I'm trying to decide if I should just take my chances considering it will be like $500+ for me to go out their again.
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I remember speaking with some of the dental students and they recommended trying to find a house close to ATSU, which they thought shouldn't be that hard. Surprisingly, they said that houses were cheaper and obviously had more space than most of the condo's in the area. I probably can't come up with the money to travel back to Mesa so I might be taking my chances as well.
 
dseattle said:
does anyone remember them saying that we are required a tablet pc? i have a strong feeling it may be this one:
http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=1144814
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I think so, but not entirely sure. I just saw somebody using that model today at the library. It looked pretty cool...you could write on top of the screen with a stylus or rotate it to use it with the keyboard...I kept looking over (the guy probably though it was weird). I guess I'm going to have to give up my Mac roots.
 
They did explicitly tell us at my interview that we were going to be needing a Lenovo thinkpad tablet PC. I'd really like to know which one, though, because I know there are several models. Kind of makes me mad, though, because I just bought a Toshiba tablet which I love to death only 5 months ago. Bought it for all the reasons they said we're going to be needing them, too. Maybe I can be allowed to keep it - doesn't sound like it but I'm hoping.
 
Ouch! That hurts V-lander. My trusty laptop died last month and I'm glad I didn't get a new one since most schools have very specific requirements. Although, it kinda sucks not having a computer....I end up spending lots of time at work using the internet.
 
If I have to, I'll probably end up selling this one, using the money to buy a new desktop (ours recently crashed) and then just coughing up the rest for the required Lenovo. I'll miss the wide screen, though.
 
I'm very unpleased about the laptop requirement too--I'll have to go back to the dark side (windows, vista even. 😡 ).

However, I'm rewarding myself by getting the new 24" imac at the same time. So, the reward greatly exceeds the pain of having a windows based computer in my home.🙂
 
Joyce just sent me an outline of the first year courses:

Principles of Healthcare-7 weeks
Musculoskeletal-6 weeks
Neuroscience and Senses-11 weeks
Cardiopulmonary-11 weeks
Renal-7 weeks
Endocrine-5 weeks
Medical Skills and Evidence-Based Medicine-1 yr
OPP-1 yr
Clinical Experiences-1 yr

No biochemistry? Will we have it in the 2nd yr? I wonder how the clinical presentation model is supposed to be integrated with this clearly system-based approach. I should e-mail and ask, but I've sent so many, I'm afraid they won't answer.
 
oh, nevermind....they'll probably incorporate Biochem into the systems
 
Well, greenshirt, if you remember Dr. Wood's presentation and his example of headaches, I'm assuming all the basic sciences are taught as they apply to such a presentation (along with the other 124 some-odd ways patients present). I'm guessing that includes the biochemistry, in this case, of headaches. That's the way I understood it, anyway.
 
It still doesn't make sense to me in light of the way Dr. Woods explained it. He said the model has 120 presentations and that we would go through each of the presentations on a case by case basis, learning all the science and medicine behind the diseases that caused them (somewhat PBL style). I'm confused about how that works with Systems Based approach. When were covering Cardiovascular system will we cover the presentations associated with them? So "shortness of breath" would be covered in both cardio and respiratory as that can be a symptom of heart attack or asthma?

I think I'm just confused b/c they talk about a lot philosophy (such as the superiority of the CP model) but its hard to understand how that actually correlates to the classroom. The lectures that are not lectures, the PBL approach that is not PBL...so what is it actually mean when we're in the classroom? I got a partial answer from the Pheonix Suns doctor durng lunch...but as I said, a lot philosophy, little concreteness.
 
I see what you're saying. I guess we'll just have to come with eager minds come July! Who's the Suns doctor? I think I missed him. I've heard there's great rotations with him for KCOM students.
 
Anyone else think of the cons of being in such small groups and possibly even smaller sub-groups later on? I must admit, the anonymity of a big school is still somewhat appealing to me. I hate to say it, but being able to bail a class once in a while, or just not talk to anyone on some days is always nice.... and as much as I love where I will be sent, I still gotta remember it will be VERY different and we will be scrutinized constantly. Im just pointing out the difference b/w this and a school with the traditional curriculum. Not that this might not be a better way to learn, in fact I think if i could force myself to just take the plunge and go for it, I could do very well, and if need be, get along with anyone for a period of time...BUT -what if we don't get along with someone at our CHC- wouldn't that stink to have to be there for three yrs with them, as opposed to just a few months at most and then on to another hospital for rotations? How would that affect your evals? Waht if we don't particularly like our professor they assign us there? Hmmmmnnn.. sorry if this sound negative, but I am just trying to see all the facets.
 
hi guys

yes, at the interview (3/15) they said we must buy the EXACT laptop before we start orientation in july.

which is super sad for me b/c i just bought a new macbook for 1500!!! I've got to find someone to sell this to now.....

Anyway we can somehow figure out a way to potentially find roomates through this thread? I'm thinking I'd like to save a little bit of money by sharing an apt. or house for that matter. maybe once we find our apts. or potential apts. we can figure all of that out.

or maybe through that atsu portal thing they were telling us about.

okay. long message. sorry guys. looking forward to meeting everyone properly in july! ciao.

-nilofer from chilly chicago
 
MD/DO ALMOST said:
Anyone else think of the cons of being in such small groups and possibly even smaller sub-groups later on? I must admit, the anonymity of a big school is still somewhat appealing to me. I hate to say it, but being able to bail a class once in a while, or just not talk to anyone on some days is always nice.... and as much as I love where I will be sent, I still gotta remember it will be VERY different and we will be scrutinized constantly. Im just pointing out the difference b/w this and a school with the traditional curriculum. Not that this might not be a better way to learn, in fact I think if i could force myself to just take the plunge and go for it, I could do very well, and if need be, get along with anyone for a period of time...BUT -what if we don't get along with someone at our CHC- wouldn't that stink to have to be there for three yrs with them, as opposed to just a few months at most and then on to another hospital for rotations? How would that affect your evals? Waht if we don't particularly like our professor they assign us there? Hmmmmnnn.. sorry if this sound negative, but I am just trying to see all the facets.
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I'm someone who picked a college that wasn't too big but big enough that I wasn't going to know everybody by the time I graduated, so the prospect of a very small class is somewhat frightening. However, classes at every med school a pretty small, usually 100-200 people, so you'd have to deal w/ that almost anywhere. I hear it's a lot like high school: lot's of drama and you have lockers (law school is also like this).

The whole CHC thing is going to be interesting. I'm guessing that everyone is going to have to grow up and be very professional in working with people they may not like. I think we'll have to come to think of our fellow 9 students as co-workers and conduct ourself as one would at a real job. Here's the rule I'm going to enforce at my CHC: NO GROUP-CEST! I don't want to end up feeling like I'm on Grey's Anatomy: everyone hooking up and lots of drama! LOL:laugh:

As for LORs, we'll have the other physicians at the CHC to write them for us and. Physicians that will know us for 3 yrs. So hopefully, if we don't like the one prof, it won't be the end of the world.
 
v-lander said:
I see what you're saying. I guess we'll just have to come with eager minds come July! Who's the Suns doctor? I think I missed him. I've heard there's great rotations with him for KCOM students.
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I can't remember his name or exactly what he looked like, other than he had silver hair and possibly a mustache. He answered a lot of my questions.
 
dseattle said:
they emailed me the info last week with attached word files. there's some forums on the myatsu with currents students posting about housing, etc.
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When did they e-mail you guys the "my atsu" login info? After you made the deposit? I sent me deposit it about two weeks ago, but it doesn't look like they've cashed it yet.
 
I think I might shell out the money for a one person apartment for the first year and work on getting roommates for the 2nd year once I get to know people.
 
Given my experience and the perspective that has resulted, I'm ready to ditch the large lecture halls and professors who like to hear themselves talk. "Learner centered learning" sounds great to me. I've read up on it some (look up "The Adult Learner" by Malcolm Knowles sometime) and though it sounds like it's too good to be true, I'm excited to give it a try and see if it can work. I think that I've found over the 7+ years of post-high school education I've had that I've found myself slacking due to the lecture-test style of delivery that is common today. I need something new like this to help me actually learn and retain something.
 
They haven't cashed my check either...I hope they received it. I'm definitely going to try and save some $ and see if I can share an apt, house, whatever with someone. If anyone else is in the same boat let me know.
 
i sent my 1st deposit feb 25th and got the myatsu march 13.

i'm down for cuttin costs, and smaller classes. ive been going to big public schools my whole life, and i've found that i learn better in smaller settings. yes we'll be stuck with the same folks (haha no group-cest!), and you cant skip out, but thats life right? theres always someone that you wont get along with, and some days you just want to get away. but i am sure that based on the sdn comm forums, the interview day, and the type of students they want, that everyone will be really cool, mature, diverse, and genuine. i'm looking forward to meeting everyone...hallelujah hollaback.
 
v-lander said:
I see what you're saying. I guess we'll just have to come with eager minds come July! Who's the Suns doctor? I think I missed him. I've heard there's great rotations with him for KCOM students.
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The doctor for the Phoenix Suns is our Provost, Craig Phelps DO.

I think the small groups concept is a great one. I have no fears of being in a group with a bunch of people I don't like. I figure, surely we're all mature enough to understand each others' situation, we're all in it together.

There is going to be an open house on Saturday, April 14th. I'm going to attend (infiltrate) and find out more in person. If anybody has any questions they want answered, send them to me and I'll be your proxy.
 
Yes, surely there are more pressing things to worry about than not getting along. We can be professional, right?
Builttorock, I'd like to know when we get the next packet of info. E.g., I wouldn't have the laptop specs outside of SDN (and I still want them from the source!). Other logistical information should be coming soon from them, I'd imagine. Thanks!
 
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