The Investment Thread (stocks, bonds, real estate, retirement, just not gold)

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I have some shares of AAPL dating back 10 years ago with cost basis of 35.82. Also, V from 9 years ago at cost basis 105. Those 2 total less than 40k in value after I sold a lot of shares early during the pandemic - also sold SHOP pretty near its peak after holding for a couple of years and experiencing 10x. Over the past 2 years, ive slowly divested from almost all individual stocks in this account and moved to index funds - after a certain point i guess it grew enough where I chose to gamble less, but didn't want to move it to my main brokerage account (which is AUM with a CFP - yes, im aware its an unpopular and ill-advised thing with bogleheads and many). But yeah, in my fun money account now I only have 3 individual stocks and I've held them all for 7 years or more.

A milestone since I first started was to have it grow enough to pay off my mortgage (which i wouldn't since it's under 3%). It's more or less there as of this week and a pretty nice feeling.
Personally I am not against paying for financial advice but that AUM (1.5% I assume?)…yikes. But it sounds like you know what you are doing so hopefully you are getting value for the money. I have a “legacy” brokerage account my mom setup for me as a kid and I let the manager do whatever he wants in that account (it’s worked well enough so far) so I understand not wanting to change something if it’s worked for you well enough so far.

I am curious how your CFP feels about you having other accounts where you do whatever you want. Surely the value of a CFP is trusting them to do what’s best for you? If not, why have them at all? Perhaps I am missing something or misunderstanding?
 
Personally I am not against paying for financial advice but that AUM (1.5% I assume?)…yikes. But it sounds like you know what you are doing so hopefully you are getting value for the money. I have a “legacy” brokerage account my mom setup for me as a kid and I let the manager do whatever he wants in that account (it’s worked well enough so far) so I understand not wanting to change something if it’s worked for you well enough so far.

I am curious how your CFP feels about you having other accounts where you do whatever you want. Surely the value of a CFP is trusting them to do what’s best for you? If not, why have them at all? Perhaps I am missing something or misunderstanding?
Pretty much hit the nail on the head - I've gone back and forth over the past few years of whether to discontinue the AUM services but I always come back to thinking if it's not broken, don't fix it. Of course, that lends itself to asking what's the opportunity cost I'm missing out on. At the end of the day, its worked well for me in so many different ways besides just looking at it from the angle of how much more my managed accounts could have been. I want to emphasize a lot of this is specific to me and certainly doesn't apply to others. I think of it as hiring a trainer but for finances instead of fitness. Everyone can go out and work out and eat right on their own, access resources on reddit or YouTube and happily achieve their goals. In my case, we have a mutually understood goal, we are on track, and I'm satisfied with the benefits of his service. I don't dwell on whether i could exceed the goal or reach it sooner if I just did it all on my own.

As for how he feels about me having my fun money account - we established from the beginning that I wanted to keep it and he encouraged it. That said it was only around 6% of my total investments at the time. Its grown quite a lot since then but the the vast majority is still AUM.
 
NVDA surpassed AAPL in market cap today.
 
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Paid off my 2nd student loan servicer with my capital gains.

2 down and 1 more loan servicer to go before being debt free and net worth positive.
The way you phrased this makes me think that you think you can’t have debt and be net worth positive? Or is it a coincidence that once you pay off your debt it just so happens that will make you net worth positive? I mean you will almost certainly be net worth positive long before being debt free?
 
The way you phrased this makes me think that you think you can’t have debt and be net worth positive? Or is it a coincidence that once you pay off your debt it just so happens that will make you net worth positive? I mean you will almost certainly be net worth positive long before being debt free?
Once I pay off the last of my student loans (largest amount remaining of the 3 service providers), I will be net worth positive as I really don't have assets that are of any real value monetarily. My car is 20+ yo for example and my laptop is nearly 6 years old. I don't have a TV, not since my last one broke over 10 years ago.

I live like a college student and am saving about >50% of my resident salary to put into the market. Those free meal cards provided by the program and food from the physician lounge save me a lot from buying groceries. Once I am an attending, I will upgrade and live like a resident.
 
Once I pay off the last of my student loans (largest amount remaining of the 3 service providers), I will be net worth positive as I really don't have assets that are of any real value monetarily. My car is 20+ yo for example and my laptop is nearly 6 years old. I don't have a TV, not since my last one broke over 10 years ago.

I live like a college student and am saving about >50% of my resident salary to put into the market. Those free meal cards provided by the program and food from the physician lounge save me a lot from buying groceries. Once I am an attending, I will upgrade and live like a resident.
Congrats, took me a solid 5 years of grinding to get to positive net worth paying off student loans.
Keep the broke college student mindset (don’t lifestyle inflate…too much).
Branched out slowly over time in keeping a variety of assets, different types of investing accounts as I learned more about finances…take your time
 
One thing I enjoy about tracking net worth is as I paid off debt I didn’t feel poor due to the lack of cash. Seeing the net worth not decline as I used my cash to reduce debt was very helpful for me in rethinking how I see my finances. For a long time using extra funds to make debt payments made me feel poor due to seeing the checking account balance go down and not really feeling the progress of bringing the debt down.

It’s also made me feel a lot better about sending money to investments for the same reason. It’s nice to be able to capture that increase/Birds Eye view and not just focus on just how much is in the bank account.

I wonder if that is just me or if other people had the same experience? I imagine it was probably mostly from only having the one account for a long time and just not being financially sophisticated when I was younger.
 
Once I pay off the last of my student loans (largest amount remaining of the 3 service providers), I will be net worth positive as I really don't have assets that are of any real value monetarily. My car is 20+ yo for example and my laptop is nearly 6 years old. I don't have a TV, not since my last one broke over 10 years ago.

I live like a college student and am saving about >50% of my resident salary to put into the market. Those free meal cards provided by the program and food from the physician lounge save me a lot from buying groceries. Once I am an attending, I will upgrade and live like a resident.
I don’t mean to keep harping on this (sorry), but surely if you are investing 50% of your income you are going to be net worth positive extremely soon? Your student loans don’t have to be paid off for that to happen.
 
Once I pay off the last of my student loans (largest amount remaining of the 3 service providers), I will be net worth positive as I really don't have assets that are of any real value monetarily. My car is 20+ yo for example and my laptop is nearly 6 years old. I don't have a TV, not since my last one broke over 10 years ago.

I live like a college student and am saving about >50% of my resident salary to put into the market. Those free meal cards provided by the program and food from the physician lounge save me a lot from buying groceries. Once I am an attending, I will upgrade and live like a resident.
Don't try to taste luxury ever when you become an attending unit you are ready because once you taste it, you will have a hard time going back living like a resident. I can tell you from experience.

I am lucky that I live in an area with somewhat reasonable housing cost, which means I can spend a little extra in the luxury stuff I care about (vacations).
 
I'm not sure maybe the canceled EV project made it drop? My friend told me the Vision Pro is underwhelming. Maybe everyone's just caught up with the AI hype. AAPL and GOOG's AI are apparently not good. It's not like people will stop buying iPhones.
AAPL and GOOG are back.
 
AAPL and GOOG are back.

3 trillion is the new 2 trillion, wild. It wasn't that long ago when 1 trillion was a huge deal and 2 trillion was unheard of. Now the top 6 S&P companies are above 1 trillion with many others within reach! Inflation is a big part of this but it's still crazy.
 
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One thing I enjoy about tracking net worth is as I paid off debt I didn’t feel poor due to the lack of cash. Seeing the net worth not decline as I used my cash to reduce debt was very helpful for me in rethinking how I see my finances. For a long time using extra funds to make debt payments made me feel poor due to seeing the checking account balance go down and not really feeling the progress of bringing the debt down.

It’s also made me feel a lot better about sending money to investments for the same reason. It’s nice to be able to capture that increase/Birds Eye view and not just focus on just how much is in the bank account.

I wonder if that is just me or if other people had the same experience? I imagine it was probably mostly from only having the one account for a long time and just not being financially sophisticated when I was younger.

I used to be so debt adverse until I tracked net worth too. I wish I didn't pay off my student loans off so aggressively and invested instead. No one teaches this stuff in school, we have to find out ourselves. I didn't figure this out until my late 30s.

I hit 1 million net worth about 4-5 years ago. With the recent market pump, I just passed 2 million net worth 👍 That's with all of my degen trading moves, I would have been better off buying and holding VTI in my trading account the whole time. If I didn't pay off my loans so fast and didn't trade individual stocks and crypto, I'd probably be closer to 3 million now.
 
I used to be so debt adverse until I tracked net worth too. I wish I didn't pay off my student loans off so aggressively and invested instead. No one teaches this stuff in school, we have to find out ourselves. I didn't figure this out until my late 30s.

I hit 1 million net worth about 4-5 years ago. With the recent market pump, I just passed 2 million net worth 👍 That's with all of my degen trading moves, I would have been better off buying and holding VTI in my trading account the whole time. If I didn't pay off my loans so fast and didn't trade individual stocks and crypto, I'd probably be closer to 3 million now.
Good stuff brother. Congrats on your success.
 
I used to be so debt adverse until I tracked net worth too. I wish I didn't pay off my student loans off so aggressively and invested instead. No one teaches this stuff in school, we have to find out ourselves. I didn't figure this out until my late 30s.

I hit 1 million net worth about 4-5 years ago. With the recent market pump, I just passed 2 million net worth 👍 That's with all of my degen trading moves, I would have been better off buying and holding VTI in my trading account the whole time. If I didn't pay off my loans so fast and didn't trade individual stocks and crypto, I'd probably be closer to 3 million now.
Great job!
 
I used to be so debt adverse until I tracked net worth too. I wish I didn't pay off my student loans off so aggressively and invested instead. No one teaches this stuff in school, we have to find out ourselves. I didn't figure this out until my late 30s.

I hit 1 million net worth about 4-5 years ago. With the recent market pump, I just passed 2 million net worth 👍 That's with all of my degen trading moves, I would have been better off buying and holding VTI in my trading account the whole time. If I didn't pay off my loans so fast and didn't trade individual stocks and crypto, I'd probably be closer to 3 million now.
Do you have a number in mind when you will start slowing down?

For myself, it will be 2-2.5 mil plus a paid off home. For the docs on SDN, it seems like the consensus is 5M.
 
Do you have a number in mind when you will start slowing down?

For myself, it will be 2-2.5 mil plus a paid off home. For the docs on SDN, it seems like the consensus is 5M.

I think 3-5 million is a good number. I'm still a long way from paying off the house. My wife used to work full time and she cut down to 2 days per week last year, so I guess we have started to slow down already. We are asset rich, cash poor so it doesn't feel much different from a few years ago. It would be hard to let go of 401k and health insurance, so I'll keep working full time for a while. Plus we still have young kids and also help our parents out. Maybe when the kids are off to college, we'll move to a low cost of living area and be done.
 
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I used to be so debt adverse until I tracked net worth too. I wish I didn't pay off my student loans off so aggressively and invested instead. No one teaches this stuff in school, we have to find out ourselves. I didn't figure this out until my late 30s.

I hit 1 million net worth about 4-5 years ago. With the recent market pump, I just passed 2 million net worth That's with all of my degen trading moves, I would have been better off buying and holding VTI in my trading account the whole time. If I didn't pay off my loans so fast and didn't trade individual stocks and crypto, I'd probably be closer to 3 million now.

It’s been a wild few years but our 401k (excluding Roth and taxable accounts) broke 1.1M combined between wife and I last month. Wish you could put more in because it’s so much less stressful than trading accounts lol.

This is with lots of mistakes and paying off a lot of student loans.
 
I think 3-5 million is a good number. I'm still a long way from paying off the house. My wife used to work full time and she cut down to 2 days per week last year, so I guess we have started to slow down already. We are asset rich, cash poor so it doesn't feel much different from a few years ago. It would be hard to let go of 401k and health insurance, so I'll keep working full time for a while. Plus we still have young kids and also help our parents out. Maybe when the kids are off to college, we'll move to a low cost of living area and be done.
We're around the same place. We just passed 2.5M net worth. I really wish I knew more about investing in my 20s and early 30s - I did very minimal 401k contributions. Only reason I was able to make up for it were liquidity events from companies going through acquisitions/buyout - which at least i had enough sense to invest. My target for slowing down is really around my taxable brokerage number since i want to retire early. I figure if it hits 3M, the withdrawal rate of 4% should provide us enough to live on as a bridge until we start withdrawing from retirement accounts and SS.
 
I thought crypto would have pumped more lately with stocks at all time highs.
 
I used to be so debt adverse until I tracked net worth too. I wish I didn't pay off my student loans off so aggressively and invested instead. No one teaches this stuff in school, we have to find out ourselves. I didn't figure this out until my late 30s.

I hit 1 million net worth about 4-5 years ago. With the recent market pump, I just passed 2 million net worth 👍 That's with all of my degen trading moves, I would have been better off buying and holding VTI in my trading account the whole time. If I didn't pay off my loans so fast and didn't trade individual stocks and crypto, I'd probably be closer to 3 million now.
Thanks for sharing, I wish there were more pharmacist forums or discussions where things like net worth were discussed. Websites like bogleheads and whitecoat investor mostly have physicians posting and it’s difficult to aspire to their networth numbers because their earning potential far exceeds a pharmacists earning. So this is good. Curious how old you were when you hit your first million, and second milllion. Does this include property as well? Single income or dual income?
I hit my first million age 36-37, we are single income. Currently at 1.4 million nw without property equity and abt 1.6-1.7 million with property. Are there pharmacists out there worth 5 million!? Would love to pick your brain if you are one!
 
Thanks for sharing, I wish there were more pharmacist forums or discussions where things like net worth were discussed. Websites like bogleheads and whitecoat investor mostly have physicians posting and it’s difficult to aspire to their networth numbers because their earning potential far exceeds a pharmacists earning. So this is good. Curious how old you were when you hit your first million, and second milllion. Does this include property as well? Single income or dual income?
I hit my first million age 36-37, we are single income. Currently at 1.4 million nw without property equity and abt 1.6-1.7 million with property. Are there pharmacists out there worth 5 million!? Would love to pick your brain if you are one!

I'd rather not give too many personal details. I do include property in net worth. It's kinda pointless to compare yourself to others because everyone's economic situation is different. Some are single, some married, some have kids, some help out their family with money, some had no student loan debt, some had help from parents (for school, wedding, house down payment etc). You're already in the top 10% so just keep doing what you're doing and don't forget to enjoy your wealth too cause you can't take it with you. I used to be cheap about eating out and traveling but now I don't care. If I go to a show, event or sports game then I'll only buy good seats now. Life is short.

There are plenty of multimillionaire pharmacists especially if they've been working for many years. Anyone who bought a house and maxed their 401k, Roth, HSA and invested in addition to those in a taxable account should easily have a few million net worth by their 40s or 50s. Stocks, real estate, and crypto have been on a tear for 15 years. Index funds would have been good enough but also many lucked out by investing early in crypto or certain stocks like TSLA, NVDA, MSFT, AAPL, GOOG, AMZN, FB etc.
 
…some had help from parents (for school, wedding, house down payment etc). …
I mostly agree with everything you said and want to add that you stumbled on a huge pet peeve of mine. You hear that stat all the time about whatever percent of “wealthy” people as not inherenting over whatever amount of money. But that doesn’t really capture the reality of how most people get help from their parents. Don't most people get help with school or their first car/house/wedding? Just looking at inheritance doesn’t make a lot of since to me. My mom is alive so I have gotten zero inheritance from her but it’s not like she hasn’t helped me tremendously throughout my life.

Rant over.
 
I mostly agree with everything you said and want to add that you stumbled on a huge pet peeve of mine. You hear that stat all the time about whatever percent of “wealthy” people as not inherenting over whatever amount of money. But that doesn’t really capture the reality of how most people get help from their parents. Don't most people get help with school or their first car/house/wedding? Just looking at inheritance doesn’t make a lot of since to me. My mom is alive so I have gotten zero inheritance from her but it’s not like she hasn’t helped me tremendously throughout my life.

Rant over.

I don't know the percentages but plenty of people get little or no help. Even attending college is a big hurdle for many, I know some people who take a year off because they have no means of paying for the next semester. My grandma and siblings helped with my first year of undergrad, that's it. My parents didn't care about me and kicked me out of the house after high school. I took out loans for everything else. I didn't have a car until my junior year of college. Bought a $3k beater from working part time during school and full time in summers. My wife had zero help and worked full time during school, took out loans for everything else. We paid for our wedding and house on our own.

Generational wealth is a huge factor for someone starting out. Some kids start off with 150k+ in debt, no car, no money for wedding or a house. Others start with no school debt, a paid off car, a wedding paid by parents and help with a down payment. Not sure why this would be a pet peeve of yours.

A typical immigrant family will come to the US with nothing to their name, no education and may not speak English. They escape their war torn country to start a new life. The parents typically work minimum wage, manual labor jobs and live on the poverty line. How are the supposed to help their kids with college, a car, a wedding and house? Their kids get educated through the US public school system and take out loans to get through college. Then the kids have to pay for everything on their own and usually help give back to their poor parents. This is why it takes so long for first generation kids to build wealth. The second generation of kids will obviously have a huge head start in comparison.
 
Not sure why this would be a pet peeve of yours.
The pet peeve is that lots of people, it seems to me, like to make it seem like the vast majority of “wealthy” people get no help and they point to the inheritance statistic as proof. It’s fallacious for all reasons I already outlined.

I am not implying that there are people who don’t make it “without help”, just pointing out how people tend to discount the help they received. It’s fine if you disagree or have had different experiences than me. Just my experience/perception.
 
The pet peeve is that lots of people, it seems to me, like to make it seem like the vast majority of “wealthy” people get no help and they point to the inheritance statistic as proof. It’s fallacious for all reasons I already outlined.

I am not implying that there are people who don’t make it “without help”, just pointing out how people tend to discount the help they received. It’s fine if you disagree or have had different experiences than me. Just my experience/perception.

I haven't noticed that 🤷
 
Thanks for sharing, I wish there were more pharmacist forums or discussions where things like net worth were discussed. Websites like bogleheads and whitecoat investor mostly have physicians posting and it’s difficult to aspire to their networth numbers because their earning potential far exceeds a pharmacists earning. So this is good. Curious how old you were when you hit your first million, and second milllion. Does this include property as well? Single income or dual income?
I hit my first million age 36-37, we are single income. Currently at 1.4 million nw without property equity and abt 1.6-1.7 million with property. Are there pharmacists out there worth 5 million!? Would love to pick your brain if you are one!
Great job bro! As much as I enjoy sharing net worth with others on these forums, the discussion eventually seems to turn into a “pissing contest” 😂.

The sentiment is mutual with wealth building mindset…often a lot of discipline to learn and making mistakes (not dwelling too much on but learning from) vs inheretance
 
Great job bro! As much as I enjoy sharing net worth with others on these forums, the discussion eventually seems to turn into a “pissing contest” 😂.

The sentiment is mutual with wealth building mindset…often a lot of discipline to learn and making mistakes (not dwelling too much on but learning from) vs inheretance
Yeah that’s a shame about not being able to discuss these things here. I learned a lot from bogleheads and white coat investor forum. Honestly that’s where I learned EVERYTHING about investing. I think it is beneficial to discuss these things on an anonymous forum so that the younger generation can learn what is possible and not possible with a pharmacists salary. And also to learn from the older generation on how they were able to create their nest egg and able to retire. Yes some will have inheritance, some will come in with a step ahead etc, but that should not be a reason for us to not discuss these things. I mean, if that was the mentality of people on those other forums, I personally would still be pissing off my retirement money on single stock picking strategy. Oh well.
 
Yeah that’s a shame about not being able to discuss these things here. I learned a lot from bogleheads and white coat investor forum. Honestly that’s where I learned EVERYTHING about investing. I think it is beneficial to discuss these things on an anonymous forum so that the younger generation can learn what is possible and not possible with a pharmacists salary. And also to learn from the older generation on how they were able to create their nest egg and able to retire. Yes some will have inheritance, some will come in with a step ahead etc, but that should not be a reason for us to not discuss these things. I mean, if that was the mentality of people on those other forums, I personally would still be pissing off my retirement money on single stock picking strategy. Oh well.
Am I missing something? I feel like this is a great place to discuss retirement savings. I mean I literally learned about dollar cost averaging and 401k accounts here.

A separate issue is a lot of people here seem to enjoy discussing individual stock picks more than other topics but I suppose it is boring to just always talk about responsible investing.

Anyway people are free to discuss whatever topics they want about investing here so feel free to be the change you want to see in the world. Want to discuss the merits of Roth accounts vs non-Roth? Let’s do it! Lump sum investing vs DCA? Love it! What is the best level of diversification, are costs all that matter, S&P vs total market, pick your poison, I’ll be happy to discuss it with you!
 
Want to discuss the merits of Roth accounts vs non-Roth?

I do. I've been over the Roth limit for so long, I've got very little money in Roths. My employer started allowing Roth 401K contributions this year. Should I bother? I feel like I'll never be in a higher bracket than I am now and I'm in a state with a reasonably high income tax which I might leave to avoid paying income tax in retirement.
 
I do. I've been over the Roth limit for so long, I've got very little money in Roths. My employer started allowing Roth 401K contributions this year. Should I bother? I feel like I'll never be in a higher bracket than I am now and I'm in a state with a reasonably high income tax which I might leave to avoid paying income tax in retirement.

Are you talking about the income limit for Roth IRA? We all do backdoor Roth. It's easy to do. The limit is only 7k per year.

Roth 401k is part of the 401k pool. You can contribute up to 23k combined in 401k and/or Roth 401k. I have no idea which is better. I've always done regular 401k.
 
I do. I've been over the Roth limit for so long, I've got very little money in Roths. My employer started allowing Roth 401K contributions this year. Should I bother? I feel like I'll never be in a higher bracket than I am now and I'm in a state with a reasonably high income tax which I might leave to avoid paying income tax in retirement.
One way to think about it is that if you have multiple “buckets” or account types to pull from in retirement you will better be able to control your tax liability in the future. Another way to look at it is that we do not know what taxes will be in the future and by doing Roth now you are eliminating the uncertainty about the future. So even if your taxes are lower in the future there is still benefits from being able to control which accounts you draw from and knowing the worst case scenario for the taxes if you draw out of the Roth accounts.

Personally I divide my contributions between 401k and Roth 401k to maximize my options later on. I probably would be better off just doing conventional but at least I am eliminating one form of risk for the future.

Are there any advantages to Roth IRA over Roth 401k? The Roth 401k has the advantage for me of being soooo easy to contribute to.
 
Personally I divide my contributions between 401k and Roth 401k to maximize my options later on. I probably would be better off just doing conventional but at least I am eliminating one form of risk for the future.
I've pretty much started doing this, but I'm wondering if I made the wrong choice. Every year, I think I'll get our MAGI low enough and will be able to contribute to a Roth IRA, but I never know that I'm over until tax time. Changing my contributions to a Roth 401k most likely keeps us over.

On the plus side: I've been putting the IRA contributions that I can't make into a taxable brokerage for the last few years. It's now enough money to start paying attention to.
 
And there goes all my NVDA gains from the past couple of days 😳
 
When did you buy, last week? LoL. It's up like 154% YTD.
Bought all my NVDA shares between 2017 through 2019 and haven't added (or sold) since. I was referring to much of the gains made last week being lost but looks like it went back up a good chunk yesterday. Oh well...the pullback was expected.
 
Bought all my NVDA shares between 2017 through 2019 and haven't added (or sold) since. I was referring to much of the gains made last week being lost but looks like it went back up a good chunk yesterday. Oh well...the pullback was expected.

Damn you rich!
 
Will TSLA get really get to 2-3k per share in a few years as Cathie Wood predicting?

I guess it will be half of that.

I just bought a 2024 model Y. The car is nice and cheap even if I did not get the 7.5k tax credit. I wonder why Tesla is not the best selling car in the county.
 
Will TSLA get really get to 2-3k per share in a few years as Cathie Wood predicting?

I guess it will be half of that.

I just bought a 2024 model Y. The car is nice and cheap even if I did not get the 7.5k tax credit. I wonder why Tesla is not the best selling car in the county.

10x from here, so 7 trillion? I doubt it. Her prediction of BTC to 1 million is more likely IMO.

The recent run up is impressive though.

EVs depreciate terribly, that's my guess why it isn't the best selling vehicle. Also the entire middle of the country doesn't care about EVs. It's mostly CA, TX and FL.
 
Ok slightly off topic…
Saw me one of them fancy shmanshy cyber trucks with my own eyes the other day…
I can’t help but make the comparison visually to the polygonal mess that was early 3D video games 🤮
My eyes are fine though 😂
 
10x from here, so 7 trillion? I doubt it. Her prediction of BTC to 1 million is more likely IMO.

The recent run up is impressive though.

EVs depreciate terribly, that's my guess why it isn't the best selling vehicle. Also the entire middle of the country doesn't care about EVs. It's mostly CA, TX and FL.
NVDA is a 3 trillion company now.
 
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