THe LizzyM score... really works??

[johnwandering]

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I was wondering how accurate the LizzyM score was, and how it can be applied

For example, if an average for a school is
cGPA 3.8
MCAT 32
the lizzyM score would be 70

If I receive a
cGPA 3.5
MCAT 35

would I be possibly competitive at that school??

 

[ZeusonRoids]

I was wondering how accurate the LizzyM score was, and how it can be applied

For example, if an average for a school is
cGPA 3.8
MCAT 32
the lizzyM score would be 70

If I receive a
cGPA 3.5
MCAT 35

would I be possibly competitive at that school??

Do you have trouble understanding things?

 

[johnwandering]

what are you talking about???

 

[fastboyslim]

I think the LizzyM score tends to be less accurate in cases where someone has low mcat/high gpa or high mcat/low gpa.

 

[MedicineMike]

am i missing something?? 35 + 35 = 70 and so does 32 + 38. Right?? haha

I dont even know what the LizzyM score is but im assuming that is how the calculation is done right?

correct me if i am wrong

 

[Caesar]

use this. It is from the Sticky in WAMC.

 

[Law2Doc]

I was wondering how accurate the LizzyM score was, ...

Not accurate at all. It is meant as a quick thumbnail, back of the envelope, calculation as to how competitive you are, using only the numerical factors. And for that simple, inaccurate, ballpark analysis it works fine. If you expect more (ie any sort of accuracy in terms of "chances"), you are missing the point of that calculation. This process is only partly objective, and no med schools actually use the LizzyM score as their determination of admissions. So I would put no stock in the score in terms of whether you will be getting in anywhere. It's not for that purpose. Use it as a very loose ballpark of where you stand. That's all it tells you. Or don't use it at all if you can eyeball the numbers and guestimate that your ECs etc will make you more or less competitive. Most people don't bother with this kind of numerical formulaic analysis and do just as well in estimating their chances.

Premeds love the idea of a formulaic approach -- if I do X and Y and Z, I will get into med school. But in fact there are huge subjective components in this process, and things like the interview and being a "good fit" loom large. So focusing on a silly formula to the point that you ar asking - will a 3.5/35 be any better than a 3.8/32 or vice versa, suggests you are focused on the trees and not seeing the forest.

 

[LizzyM]

I just want to add that my purpose in promoting the LizzyM score was to help people determine their chances of getting an interview, not admission. There are too many other factors that go into the admission decision to boil it down to a matter of stats. However, it pains me to see applicants who have no interviews despite applying early and to a number of schools because they shot too high.

 

[Excelsius]

I was wondering how accurate the LizzyM score was, and how it can be applied

For example, if an average for a school is
cGPA 3.8
MCAT 32
the lizzyM score would be 70

If I receive a
cGPA 3.5
MCAT 35

would I be possibly competitive at that school??

A much more accurate formula that takes into account URM status, residency status, and school specific real admission probability data should be available soon. Will premeds be comfortable using it? I have no idea.

 

[Law2Doc]

A much more accurate formula that takes into account URM status, residency status, and school specific real admission probability data should be available soon. Will premeds be comfortable using it? I have no idea.

Again in a system that is at least 50% non-objective any formula is going to be of very limited value -- at best it will give a very rough idea of copetitiveness. The current formula does this and any tweaks are going to be quite marginal in added value. You will NEVER have a formula that says if you have x and y and z you will get into a or b or c med school. There will be folks who the formula says comes up short who will get snapped up, and folks who look great on paper who still look that way on the waitlist. Really no point to try and hone in on a formula when so many subjective things play such a big role.

 

[Mattabet]

Again in a system that is at least 50% non-objective any formula is going to be of very limited value -- at best it will give a very rough idea of copetitiveness. The current formula does this and any tweaks are going to be quite marginal in added value. You will NEVER have a formula that says if you have x and y and z you will get into a or b or c med school. There will be folks who the formula says comes up short who will get snapped up, and folks who look great on paper who still look that way on the waitlist. Really no point to try and hone in on a formula when so many subjective things play such a big role.

👍 Agree.

Does it work? Sure. Compared to whatever else is out there (which is not a heck of a lot) it works great. But there are so many aspects of an applicant (or interviewee) that are hard to quantify or intangible.

LizzyM score, as above, is for interviews based on MCAT and GPA. If you have great extracurriculars, that's obviously going to help on the road to acceptance, but it's not going to have a bearing on the score. Use it for what it is; recognize the limitations.

 

[Excelsius]

Again in a system that is at least 50% non-objective any formula is going to be of very limited value -- at best it will give a very rough idea of copetitiveness. The current formula does this and any tweaks are going to be quite marginal in added value. You will NEVER have a formula that says if you have x and y and z you will get into a or b or c med school. There will be folks who the formula says comes up short who will get snapped up, and folks who look great on paper who still look that way on the waitlist. Really no point to try and hone in on a formula when so many subjective things play such a big role.

100% certainty can never be achieved. Right now as you are sitting in front of your computer you cannot tell me with 100 certainty that your car isn't on fire or leaking fuel. It is all about trying to increase the accuracy of the prediction. If you know that you have a brand new car, then you can be more certain that it has no leaks. Same thing with medschool admissions. If you are using a formula that has just two variables, it is not as useful as a formula that uses five or more variables and combines that with historic data for the school. And by the way, it IS possible to come up with almost a precise formula, but you will have to spend a lot of time trying to quantify the subjective psychology of the adcoms and use every single variable of previously admitted students. Something tells me that still a supercomputer won't be needed to analyze the data.

Plus, this is not too different from dating. I mean would you rather find Ms. Law2Doc based on five levels of compatibility with you than "29 dimensions of harmonious compatibility"? The fact that you may come across Mrs. Nemesis even with 29 dimensions does not detract from the fact that 29 is more accurate than five. Hope you agree. Based on past history of your posts and including all the variables in trying to quantify the agreeableness probability of your response, my equation says that you might not agree!

 

[spike22]

Apply broadly, and put the same effort you put into studying for your mcats, or classes into finding out what certain schools look for. Find a good match for you, both location, and personality wise. BUT apply broadly using this approach. Some LizzyM out of reach schools, some middle of the road schools and some "low tier" schools. MCAT and GPA are certainly not the only factors, although they are important....

 

[Shawnpremed]

This is a great tool. But does it act as a quick and dirty MSAR, if you're only interested on figuring your chances and what schools to apply to based on your no.s?

 

[pianola]

LizzyM score -- predicted I would get interviews at all the schools I applied to. I did not get interviews at 4 schools. 14 interviews offered /18 applications. (Rating: 14/18)

LizzyM score -- predicted 9 acceptances of 9 interviews. 6 acceptances /9 interviews. (Rating: 6/9) [this ratio might possibly change if I get off of 2 waitlists]

Your results may vary, folks.

 

[Shawnpremed]

^^But you're still a stat monster. 👍 Lucky you.

MDApp yourself if you haven't!

 

[rockaction]

My LizzyM score is 74 or something...which makes me feel way overconfident. "Go For It!" next to Harvard? Gimme a break...

But it's a cool tool nonetheless. But it obviously can't account for the finesse that is the rest of the application, nor does it claim to.

If anything it makes me feel good at the end of the day

 

[majahops]

100% certainty can never be achieved. Right now as you are sitting in front of your computer you cannot tell me with 100 certainty that your car isn't on fire or leaking fuel. It is all about trying to increase the accuracy of the prediction. If you know that you have a brand new car, then you can be more certain that it has no leaks. Same thing with medschool admissions. If you are using a formula that has just two variables, it is not as useful as a formula that uses five or more variables and combines that with historic data for the school. And by the way, it IS possible to come up with almost a precise formula, but you will have to spend a lot of time trying to quantify the subjective psychology of the adcoms and use every single variable of previously admitted students. Something tells me that still a supercomputer won't be needed to analyze the data.

Plus, this is not too different from dating. I mean would you rather find Ms. Law2Doc based on five levels of compatibility with you than "29 dimensions of harmonious compatibility"? The fact that you may come across Mrs. Nemesis even with 29 dimensions does not detract from the fact that 29 is more accurate than five. Hope you agree. Based on past history of your posts and including all the variables in trying to quantify the agreeableness probability of your response, my equation says that you might not agree!

I don't entirely understand this post, but I really did enjoy it nonetheless. Thank you!

 

[pianola]

^^But you're still a stat monster. 👍 Lucky you.

MDApp yourself if you haven't!

Heh, thanks. Yeah I'll have to update my MDapps, thanks for the reminder. I've left my stats off (which of course makes it useless for the time being) but after the first day of classes I'll just complete it.

 

[jult24er]

Not accurate at all. It is meant as a quick thumbnail, back of the envelope, calculation as to how competitive you are, using only the numerical factors. And for that simple, inaccurate, ballpark analysis it works fine. If you expect more (ie any sort of accuracy in terms of "chances"), you are missing the point of that calculation. This process is only partly objective, and no med schools actually use the LizzyM score as their determination of admissions. So I would put no stock in the score in terms of whether you will be getting in anywhere. It's not for that purpose. Use it as a very loose ballpark of where you stand. That's all it tells you. Or don't use it at all if you can eyeball the numbers and guestimate that your ECs etc will make you more or less competitive. Most people don't bother with this kind of numerical formulaic analysis and do just as well in estimating their chances.

Premeds love the idea of a formulaic approach -- if I do X and Y and Z, I will get into med school. But in fact there are huge subjective components in this process, and things like the interview and being a "good fit" loom large. So focusing on a silly formula to the point that you ar asking - will a 3.5/35 be any better than a 3.8/32 or vice versa, suggests you are focused on the trees and not seeing the forest.

Interesting question is; why do pre-meds love the idea of a formulaic approach? Becasue we're greedy little formula monsters? Or because it would be great to actually have some idea of what to shoot for in this process that takes so much effort from us?

 

[pianola]

Or because it would be great to actually have some idea of what to shoot for in this process that takes so much effort from us?

For most people it's that.

I think the LizzyM score was helpful to me even if it didn't predict my outcomes with 100% certainty. I mean, I would never have considered applying to some of the more competitive schools without some indication that I might be admitted.

I was able to pick a good range of selectivity for me.

 

[LittleRocker]

Is there a way to assign a numerical value to your social aptitude?

 

[enjoydrywax]

Interesting question is; why do pre-meds love the idea of a formulaic approach? Becasue we're greedy little formula monsters? Or because it would be great to actually have some idea of what to shoot for in this process that takes so much effort from us?

I don't think it has to do with being "greedy" or anything like that. It's just that we are for the most part science-minded people. We like to think there is logic and reason behind every action and reaction, and that black boxes act exactly like black boxes, where if the input is the same, the output should be too.

But as L2D/excelsius explained so wonderfully, the system is at most 50% objective, and to tell you the truth I'd argue that it's mostly subjective. So in that case you really can't apply a formula, as you have no idea how the system works.

 

[LizzyM]

Look at the schools' % interviewed and you'll see that going 14/18 is way above the odds. The LizzyM score makes no predictions about the likelihood of being admitted, that goes way beyond formulas.

 

[pianola]

Look at the schools' % interviewed and you'll see that going 14/18 is way above the odds. The LizzyM score makes no predictions about the likelihood of being admitted, that goes way beyond formulas.

Yeah I feel pretty lucky. Couldn't be happier. What I was trying to say was that the LizzyM score gave me a little bit more confidence in my application to some of the more competitive schools -- if the LizzyM score hadn't suggested I might be generally competitive, I might never have even attempted applying.

Is the LizzyM score just a general measure of competitiveness? (As measured by success in the interview process?)

 

[LizzyM]

Yeah I feel pretty lucky. Couldn't be happier. What I was trying to say was that the LizzyM score gave me a little bit more confidence in my application to some of the more competitive schools -- if the LizzyM score hadn't suggested I might be generally competitive, I might never have even attempted applying.

Is the LizzyM score just a general measure of competitiveness? (As measured by success in the interview process?)

It is a general measure of competitiveness in the interview invitation process. I find it so sad to see someone apply broadly but wrongly and not get any interviews.

 

[jult24er]

It is a general measure of competitiveness in the interview invitation process. I find it so sad to see someone apply broadly but wrongly and not get any interviews.

I find that sad too; but even sadder to see someone fly all over the country to interview and get all waitlists and rejections ...

 

[LizzyM]

I find that sad too; but even sadder to see someone fly all over the country to interview and get all waitlists and rejections ...

That requires an interview intervention. We can't do that online... an applicant in that situation needs an honest assessment of his/her interviewing techniques and needs to address deficiencies in those face-to-face encounters. This is particularly true if the waitlists are for schools where the applicant's LizzyM score exceeds the school's stats.