Sonic Wig

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The name change issue is critically impaortant. It needes to be started immediatly.

This has nothing to do with not being faithful to osteopathy, or wanting to be an "md".

It has nothing to do with more publicity from the AOA. Osteopathy has existed for over 100 years, and if the people don't know what a DO does or is- by now, the AOA is not going to make that happen.

It has to do with legally asserting our right to express what we do.
There are many types of doctors, doctors of divinity, doctor of philosphy, doctor of chiropractic, and doctor of dentistry. We practice medicine, that is what we do. A select group of people have earned the right to practice medicine. I have worked hard for this right. I want to be known for what I do. I go to medical school, I am a medical student, becoming a medical doctor. This has nothing to do with upstaging the osteopathic philosophy.

Osteopathy is an old term, we don't call pharmacies apothocarries(sp?), chemists are not known as alchemists anymore. Osteopathy is a part of medicine. We are not practicing dentistry., devinity, or philosophy. We practice medicine.

We are medical doctors, that is what we do, we need to claim the title of medical doctor. It is time to stop being manipulated by the loss of identy argument. We are medical doctors, we prescribe medication, preform surgery, read x rays, stitch, intubate and we use osteopathic technique to treat medical problems. We use the osteopthic philosophy to treat the whole person, but that is not limited to DO's many MD's also treat the whole person.

MD-O gives us the credit we deserve, while preserving our orientation. If the AOA won't assist with the change then we need to start a petition to get this movement implimented.

MD-O that is what we are.
 

Sonic Wig

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The AMA is not the degree granting body for an osteopathic degree. The AOA is a seperate body.
 
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I think I agree with the OP. "Osteopathy" does not define what D.O.'s do. If it did, I wouldn't be taking the COMLEX and USMLE in June, and I wouldn't be eligibal for MEDICAL licensure.
 

(nicedream)

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Originally posted by Sonic Wig
The AMA is not the degree granting body for an osteopathic degree. The AOA is a seperate body.

I know, but changing the name to MD-O might require the AMA's consent since it is just MD with an O attached. At the very least the AMA would raise a stink.
 

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Originally posted by Sonic Wig
If the AOA won't assist with the change then we need to start a petition to get this movement implimented.

Let me know where to sign.
 

Sonic Wig

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Raise a stink? What souce of infomation do you have that says the AMA would object?

Even if they did, what is a stink? People raise a stink all the time, do you not do something because someone raises a stink?

I've read many of the arguments on the other name thread. The idea that because someone changes a name that signals insecurity. The association of family paractice just renamed its organization, that certainly doesn't mean that their doctors felt insecure. They felt their new name more aptly described what they do. Osteopathy does not aptly describe that we are medical doctors.

Interestingly, when asked what you do most medical students say" I am a medical student, at PCOM,AZCOM TCOM" etc. We don't usually say that we are an osteopathic medical student. Does that mean it's taking away from our osteopathic experience or that one is wishing that they went to allopathic school. No. But what it does do, it tells people right away what you are. They know that means medicine, doctor.

The other argument I read is that it would be confussing to people to change the name. Hell, most people don't even know what a DO is- how confused can they be when it's changed to a new name when they haven't even heard of the original name . And I think that of the intelligent few who have heard of DO's, they are probably smart enough to understand a name change.

It is letting the public know you're a doctor, not a plumber or mechanic or a chiropracter. You know, if you engaged in space travel, and found creatures on a planet, the first question would not be are they male or female, but what are they, animal, reptile, fish? In this case, I want to be identified as a medical doctor as opposed to other kinds of doctors. And DO does not aptly identify what we do.

As far as the AMA letting us do this. We are our own governing body. Medical doctor is not a copy protected title. There are people in other countries using the title medical doctor, the AMA doesn't have a patent on the title.Beyond that, cite the source of information that says the AMA would have backlash.


It's new century, the time has come for a name change that more apltly reflects our profession. We are medical doctors-osteopathic.


Yes, JP, I guess that was an interesting choice of words. Next time I'll try to use a word that isn't such a tender point!!!!
 

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Originally posted by Sonic Wig
It is time to stop being manipulated by the loss of identy argument.

I just think using the word "manipulated" was funny.

Sonic...though I do not agree with you, I must say, you make a strong point and you cannot be faulted for your opinion. Though I do not think the name need be changed (nor do I think it ever will) it is refreshing to see someone campaigning for a name change based on their opinions on feeling and NOT on because they are bitter about not getting an "MD" stitched onto their coat.
 

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I agree with you about the name change Sonic, I was just remarking that I think the AMA will be pissed. I wasn't saying it necessarily matters.
 

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although part of me agrees with you sonic. the AOA as a body will never agree to change the name. The "identity" or lack thereof will go down the tubes in a second. PLus think about all the other DO's out there and those that are retired. I dont think the old school DO's are going to be receptive at all.

If this matter ever made it to the house of delegates it would be bogged down so long that you would be retired before anything ever happened.

thats my hunch.
 

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The change is an excellent idea. I think it should happen would sign or assit in any way I could to make it so.
 

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Unless I am very wrong, I believe the AOA was granted the right to award the MD degree by the courts in the 1970's. So they could change the degree rather easily, but it doesn't appear they are interested in doing so.

I am personally indifferent on this issue. Changing the letters isn't going to affect our profession in any significant way. Patients and peers will ultimately view us based on how good we are at what we do. Your work ethic will determine your reputation. Patients call me "doctor" these days and don't ask me if I am a DO or an MD. I think they do so because once in a while I seem to know what I am talking about.

Work as hard as your MD counterparts, my fellow DOs, and you will never have to explain yourself to anyone.
 

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We are distinguished by different letters for a reason. If you want to have an MD by your name, go to an allopathic school. If you want to represent a more comprehensive medical profession, and one that will become the more dominant medical profession within the next 50 years, then stick with us--but don't try to change us.

Don't dwell in the past----look to the future.
 
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Originally posted by OSUdoc08
We are distinguished by different letters for a reason. If you want to have an MD by your name, go to an allopathic school. If you want to represent a more comprehensive medical profession, and one that will become the more dominant medical profession within the next 50 years, then stick with us--but don't try to change us.

Don't dwell in the past----look to the future.

We're proposing M.D.O. not M.D. Again, this new degree more accurately reflects our profession. It has nothing to do with trying to be more like M.D.s. We're not trying to change anyone. Read cmudan's post in the DO name change thread. His views reflect the views of many of us. I don't think you read any of the previous posters' thoughts carefully enough, so you decided to jump to inaccurate conclusions.
 

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Originally posted by Dr. Evil
Unless I am very wrong, I believe the AOA was granted the right to award the MD degree by the courts in the 1970's. So they could change the degree rather easily, but it doesn't appear they are interested in doing so.

I am personally indifferent on this issue. Changing the letters isn't going to affect our profession in any significant way. Patients and peers will ultimately view us based on how good we are at what we do. Your work ethic will determine your reputation. Patients call me "doctor" these days and don't ask me if I am a DO or an MD. I think they do so because once in a while I seem to know what I am talking about.

Work as hard as your MD counterparts, my fellow DOs, and you will never have to explain yourself to anyone.

You seem to be naive to the fact that whole purpose is to more accurately portray our profession and get more recognition from public. Because as of right now- we have NONE. Very few people know excactly what a D.O. is. When people look for physicians in the phone book, they often skip over the D.O. section and proceed to the M.D. section. This happens way more than you think. Of course we will be judged by our skills and work ethic once we get patients. But we need to get public recognition before we're going to get patients.
 

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I thought "osteo" means BONE?! "pathy" I thought means "DISEASE OF"??? Since when does "bone disease" mean holistic approach to patient care like people think it does??? Get real!!!

If I become an ophthalmologist, what the hell does "bone disease" have to do with my profession??? Osteopathy is an antiquated term that does NOT reflect the profession as a whole.
 

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MDO does not make sense. People will ask what an MDO is then instead of what a DO is. You fall into the same problem that we have now. People don't recognize the name. After all, there are DMDs (dentists) and OMDs (masters of oriental medicine). People may not recognize these names and even if they do they may not know they are fully liscensed physicians. OMDs certainly aren't so why would MDOs be.

If you want real change you would have to change the name to MD. That way, we wouldn't have any problems of recognition or anything like that. However, that's not going to happen because DOs want to maintain distinctiveness. Thus, it is a failed venture and the profession would be much better just keeping it at DO.

There's no use in changing it to a name that will do little to help the public recognize DOs better. If people want real change, then start a petition calling for the title to change from DOs to MDs.
 

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Originally posted by STAC
Fine. Change it then, where do I sign up?
:laugh: You should have been in CA in the 1960s. Many DOs were allowed to change their title to MD for $60. Do you think it's worth it? ;)
 

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Hell yeah!

I have just started in this nonsense as a MS-0!!! I am tired of trying to respond to family members who ask me now, "I thought you wanted to be a doctor?"

I mean WTF!!! This sucks!

I love the philosophy and the hands on part of our field but having to explain to peope that I AM A OSTEOPATHIC MEDICAL STUDENT?! Give me a break!!! I am simply a future med student going to school in FW. Plain and simple. But the fact that I have to avoid confusion by NOT mentioning DO is crap. What a bunch of junk when people say that I have to educate people on what a DO is!!! Total waste of time!!! I am who I am and I will treat my patients through the essence of who I am as a person, as a physician. I shouldn't have to promote osteopathy period! I'll be a physican not an "osteopath". This term doen'st even make any sense!!! It means...disease of the bones! Antiquated.
 

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Originally posted by STAC
Hell yeah!

I have just started in this nonsense as a MS-0!!! I am tired of trying to respond to family members who ask me now, "I thought you wanted to be a doctor?"

I mean WTF!!! This sucks!

I love the philosophy and the hands on part of our field but having to explain to peope that I AM A OSTEOPATHIC MEDICAL STUDENT?! Give me a break!!! I am simply a future med student going to school in FW. Plain and simple. But the fact that I have to avoid confusion by NOT mentioning DO is crap. What a bunch of junk when people say that I have to educate people on what a DO is!!! Total waste of time!!! I am who I am and I will treat my patients through the essence of who I am as a person, as a physician. I shouldn't have to promote osteopathy period! I'll be a physican not an "osteopath". This term doen'st even make any sense!!! It means...disease of the bones! Antiquated.
I agree. I get tired of explaining I might go DO. When I talk about it to other students I don't even know if they know what I mean when I say DO schools. It sucks.
 

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If you're tired of explaining what a DO is then you shouldn't have gone to a DO school, plain and simple.

And for the record, it says right on the degree, "Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine". No longer does it say Osteopathy.
 
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Originally posted by STAC
Hell yeah!

I have just started in this nonsense as a MS-0!!! I am tired of trying to respond to family members who ask me now, "I thought you wanted to be a doctor?"

I mean WTF!!! This sucks!

I love the philosophy and the hands on part of our field but having to explain to peope that I AM A OSTEOPATHIC MEDICAL STUDENT?! Give me a break!!! I am simply a future med student going to school in FW. Plain and simple. But the fact that I have to avoid confusion by NOT mentioning DO is crap. What a bunch of junk when people say that I have to educate people on what a DO is!!! Total waste of time!!! I am who I am and I will treat my patients through the essence of who I am as a person, as a physician. I shouldn't have to promote osteopathy period! I'll be a physican not an "osteopath". This term doen'st even make any sense!!! It means...disease of the bones! Antiquated.

Actually "osteopath" means "bone suffering" not "disease of the bone" and it reflects AT Still's idea that body suffering comes from structural derangements of the musculoskeletal system. I think that you need to embrace your "osteopathicness." It's actually pretty cool and once you actually take the time to explain to people they agree. It might take awhile, but you'll eventually become comfortable and proud of the letters behind your name. When people ask me what I am, I tell them "I'm a doctor." When they ask me about my specialty, I tell them "rehabilitation medicine." If the conversation evolves into questions about my philosophy of health and illness then I tell them that "I'm an osteopath." In time you'll come to understand the differences...
 
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Sonic,

First off, its chiropractor not "chiropracter". Secondly, chiropractors are doctors.
 

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I have to agree with drusso here. At first, I was also kind of bummed out about having to explain what DO means. And I am sure there will be times in my career when it gets to be tiring. But I wanted to be a DO. I signed up for this. Surely you all knew when you accepted a seat at an osteopathic school that it is different from MD and that you would have to explain what it means a lot. Even if the AOA started a media blitz tomorrow, we'd still be explaining ourselves throught our careers. MD to many people is synonymous with doctor, that is simply the way it is. If you are willing to accept a spot at an osteopathic school I think you should be willing to accept that you are going to be an osteopathic physician and be totally comfortable with that.

Part of the problem I think a lot of people have is that they work so hard, as hard as MDs, but MDs get the instant name recognition (which=presitige, respect, etc) while we have to explain ourselves. Well, a lot of people do a lot of jobs that are not understood, but that are crucially important. They don't get recognized for that when people see the letters behind their names.

I think you have to ask yourself, what am I doing this for? Is it prestige and recognition or is it because you want to practice medicine. Check your egos at the door, because they will take a beating before it is all said and done and you finally are a practicing physician--and that goes for allopathic medical students as well.

STAC, you will get a lecture in your first week at TCOM about the history of ostepathy and how it came to be that we have equal practicing rights with MDs. It wasn't always so--it took a lot of work and persistence from the DOs who came before us. It's a history I believe we should be proud of. I know I sound like an AOA cheerleader here but I'm really not. I just have settled into this way of thinking about medicine and practicing it and have realized that the principles of osteopathy really resonate with me and make complete sense, and I have no problem explaining it to people. Of course I would love it if I didn't have to do that so often, as would the rest of us.

For those who haven't started school yet, I think once you get in there and start understanding what the profession is about--for those who take their "osteopathicness" to heart--you won't mind explaining it because you will be proud of it and want people to know.
 

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Originally posted by JKDMed
If you're tired of explaining what a DO is then you shouldn't have gone to a DO school, plain and simple.

That is so easy for you to say, isn't it.
 

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Originally posted by sophiejane
If you are willing to accept a spot at an osteopathic school I think you should be willing to accept that you are going to be an osteopathic physician and be totally comfortable with that.

It wasn't always so--it took a lot of work and persistence from the DOs who came before us. It's a history I believe we should be proud of.


SJ---You KNOW that I am totally happy and COMFORTABLE to be going to a DO school!!! If I wasn't, I would have reapplied. TCOM is SOOOOO the best school in TEXAS!!!


I don't know why I should feel proud for a history of fighting for so called equal footing with MD's. Because in the eyes of the general public we are not. This is the single purpose of all of these threads right now. Why do I have to carry the weight of public bias? I want to be trained in medicine the way DO's are trained. That is the reason I applied to DO schools in the first place. I didn't sign up for the bias opinions, superiority and ignorance of others. Really, doesn't it suck to have to defend yourself all the time? Doesn't telling people that you ARE really a doctor get old? Why do WE have to keep doing this? It is ridiculous!
 

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I hear ya, little G. :) We've all had the same thoughts at some point, I think.

Just take a breath, and see how things go. Contact the AOA, tell them what you think. There will be time and opportunities to fight for changes once you get in school and beyond, if you still see a need to. But I am pretty sure it won't be much of a priority for you for the next few years... I'd suggest you save your strength, because this is a marathon, not a sprint--and that goes for your emotional as well as your intellectual energy. Choose your battles wisely and put your energy into the ones you think you can win!

I think you are wrong about the public seeing us as unequal--I think it is more that they don't know what the letters mean. Once you tell them, they are fine with it. There is a very strong movement among consumers in this country for "alternative" health options (just look at sales of Ginko bilboa annd St. John's Wort, for example). Not that we are really all that alternative, but we are when compared to MDs, and when you explain to people what DO means, if you emphasize the importance that ostepathic medicine places on prevention and facilitating the body's own mechanisms for healing, I promise you that you will change minds, one mind at a time.
 

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Guys, I thought the same thing for a long time.

I'm not opposed to the name change. Do a search, I posted in a thread like this not too many months ago with your same exact argument.

Every day I'm more and more happy that I get to be part of the osteopathic community.

While don't think anyone can reasonably disagree with the fact that "osteopathy" doesn't reflect what we do, a name change really isn't going to change much as far as public recognition. Like another poster said, you'll just have to explain what an M.D.O. is.

The fact that you have to explain what you are stems from the sheer fact that you are different, not from what the arbitrary name is.

Medicine is steeped in tradition. The D.O. is a traditional name. Tradition is hard to change, by definition.

Always keep in mind that there are tons of people out there who have NO CLUE as to what becoming a physician entails--many of them will work right beside you in the hospital. If they don't understand, most laypeople won't either.

Not to fear, everyone WILL understand who you are when you stick a tube down their throat or slice open their belly to expose their flaming hot appendix.
 

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If you guys don't like the title DO, then don't go to a school that grants the title of "DO."

If you guys don't like to explain what a DO is, then you will not like to explain what an MD-O is. Let me guess...an MD-O is like an MD but that does osteopathic manipulation? You're back where you started.

So, let's say that the AOA changes the title to MD-O and the AMA agrees with it. Now you'll have people asking you, "What's an MD-O?" and pre-meds will say, "It's an MD-wannabe degree. MD-O schools have lower GPA and MCAT averages, so if you have the choice, go to an MD school instead of an MD-O one." Back where you started.

Trying to merge with the MD world is doing two things:

- Acknowledging that the DO degree is inferior and we can only be respected in the medical world if we somehow become associated completely with the MD degree (nonsense).

- Destroying the rich and great history of the osteopathic profession as a "splinter" medical group that survived and clawed its way into complete legal and professional equality.

What's next? PA's demanding their degree be changed to MD-A (MD Assistants)?. Or how about nurse practitioners demading their degrees be changed to MD-N? How about MD-D for dentists? Or MD-C for chiropractors? How about MD-OM for oriental medicine doctors? Or MD-N for naturopaths? (Wait! MD-N was taken by nurse practitioners...how about MD-NM?).

Don't like to explain what a DO degree is? Here's the solution:

http://www.uhsa.ag/pstudent/four/resdt/
 

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Really all of the previous arguments center on a few themes.

Before I address them I have a question to ask- those that are resistant to the idea of a more accurate name, why are you happy about remaining in obscurity and more upset about being recongnized for being a medical doctor? Are you not a medical doctor?

The "Quit whinning, get out on the wards and be the best doctor, that will speak for itself." arguement hasn't appartently worked very well over the LAST 100 years, because most DO's have been doing that and the general public still doesn't know what a DO is. "What's a DO is that like a medical doctor, is that like a real doctor?" Or your argument would then become all these DO's haven't been doing such a hot job, because that's why nobody knows who they are.

With the initial MD-O it would be clearly evident that one is a medical doctor, and would bring recognition to the field of osteopathic medicine as being "real medical doctors." It's kind of a no brainer. I AM NOT suggesting that DO's are not real doctors. Just the opposite, we know we are real doctors but this would clear up any doubt in the pubic's mind that we are medical doctors, and wouldn't take another 100 years of explaining. For those that still missed the point, this has NOTHING to do with not wanting to be a DO or not happy with DO school. And no, it is unlikly to have people ask "Is an MD-O kind of like a medical doctor who practices osteopathy?". MD in most peoples minds means medical doctor, not "kinda like a medical doctor."

As far as what pre meds will think agrument- I don't think a person who hasn't entered medical school yet is the ultimate authority on a professions' direction. I don't find that to be a compelling reason for not changing the name to MD-O.

The what's next MD-C MD- A argument is more of a slippery slope argument. To the point, there are only 3 types of doctors in the US that are recognized by the boards to be called medical doctors. Those are MD's DO's and Podiatrists, only these people can sit for the USMLE. As such only these people can sit for medical doctor licencsure.Therefore, PA's Chiroparactors, oriental medical doctors aren't qualified for licensure and the name medical doctor is not legally attributed to their profession.


What all these arguments really come down to is a fear that the osteopathic proffession will be swallowed up and lost if the title MD-O is implimented. This point is really not well founded, as it would bring more and deserved recongnition to the field of osteopathic medicine. The title medical doctor does carry prestige and legitimacy, and as osteopathic medical doctors and medical students we have worked butt hard for this, so I ask you again why are you afraid to step up to the plate and claim your title as a medical doctor? MD-O is your friend not your enemy.
 

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Originally posted by Sonic Wig
Raise a stink? What souce of infomation do you have that says the AMA would object?

Even if they did, what is a stink? People raise a stink all the time, do you not do something because someone raises a stink?

As far as the AMA letting us do this. We are our own governing body. Medical doctor is not a copy protected title. There are people in other countries using the title medical doctor, the AMA doesn't have a patent on the title.Beyond that, cite the source of information that says the AMA would have backlash.

Well, if that's the case, then I propose to change the name to M.D.. (note that it has 2 periods after the D, so it's a bit different. The AMA can't do anything about that!) :clap: :clap: +pity+ +pity+ :clap: :clap:
 
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You MD-O crusaders get on out there then. Stop posting on SDN and start talking to the AOA, the schools, the media, whomever will listen. Put your money where your mouth is.

I'll be interested to see what happens and how long your energy for this campaign will last and how far you will get. Keep us posted.
 

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why not M.D., OMM. or whatever the initials would be for a specialty in OMM... FAOomm or something like that?
 

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In the book "The Difference a D.O. Makes," it says that Dr. Still decided to confer the D.O. degree instead of the M.D. degree because he believed that the insights he had gained were so distinctive that physicians trained in that perspective had to be set apart from the allopathic doctor.

I am sorry that some of you feel that it is a pain having to explain what a D.O. is. Regardless, you are or will be a D.O. I am proud that I will someday be able to have the D.O. after my name. I hope the name (D.O.) will always remain the same AND those who are not proud of the D.O. should go M.D. We have the initial D.O. for a reason. BE PROUD OF IT.
 

DireWolf

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Originally posted by BiochemMan
In the book "The Difference a D.O. Makes," it says that Dr. Still decided to confer the D.O. degree instead of the M.D. degree because he believed that the insights he had gained were so distinctive that physicians trained in that perspective had to be set apart from the allopathic doctor.

I am sorry that some of you feel that it is a pain having to explain what a D.O. is. Regardless, you are or will be a D.O. I am proud that I will someday be able to have the D.O. after my name. I hope the name (D.O.) will always remain the same AND those who are not proud of the D.O. should go M.D. We have the initial D.O. for a reason. BE PROUD OF IT.

It's amazing that such small-minded people are actually going to be physicians. If you'd take the time to read any of the posts here, you'd realize that we are proud of being a D.O. However, the D.O. degree does not accurately reflect our profession. We are medical doctors, so the degree should reflect that. Osteopathy is an outdated term.
 

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I was one of those fortunate and (naive?) student who happend to turn down offers from two U.S. MD (ranked) schools to attend the old DO school located in Philadelphia, PA. Personlly and carefully, I felt that this school fits me the best for my military career and it just turned out to be a DO school...However during my two years of preclinical education I observed that some of my classmates have "settled" for DO degree. This post sadly depicts potential bleak picture of the future of DO degree when many of you want to change the few letters to be recognized by the public. You painted the pictire that next 100 years will be same as last 100 years for DOs.

Many people mentioned many of negative features of having DO degree. But no one mentioned one HUGE POSITIVE feature! These DO schools looked beyond YOUR lower GPA and MCAT scores and accepted you and granted the privilege of treating the patients because you possess "something" to contribute the future of (Osteopathy) ==changed to (Osteopathic Medicine) and make the next 100 years better...

I WILL.

If you can't you do not deserve the title DO next to your name.

P.S. Hey if you want,...you can have my MD accepted letters and go there...


MS II (future DO)
 

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You guys are whining like babies. MD-O wont help your cause at all anyways.

You should have thought about the implications of John Doe, DO as opposed to John Doe, MD before you went to DO school!

Besides, you can do anything an MD can do. You can be radiologists, surgeons, endocrinologists, whatever.

If you think the public doesnt respect you enough, then start more ad campaigns regarding DOs. Name/title change is not going to help you.
 

MacGyver

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Actually I've got no problem with DOs changing their title to MDs.

HOWEVER, this would come with one HUGE condition:

If DOs wanted to have their titles changed to MDs, then it means the AMA and LCME would have total and complete control over the osteopathic schools.

That way, the ******* AACOM wouldnt be opening DO schools left and right and forcing all of us to take lower salaries as a result.

You want the MD title? Fine, then agree to give up control of your schools and accreditation process. Get rid of the COMLEX and everybody will take only USMLE from now on.

MD title comes at a price. Its not free for the taking.
 

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I would like to address an argument someone stated a few threads back, that DO schools overlooked "your lower GPA and MCAT score-" so because you got in with 'Lower grades and mcat scores you must stay with an antiquated name because you do not deserve to be called a medical doctor? That form of logic doesn't sound like someone who is PROUD of their proffession. And i'M SURE many would disagree with you that their statistics are lower.
Another point- how low is low. Many of the allopathic schools, Vermont for example, has GPAs and mcat in range with several osteopathic schools, 3.4 27 mcats. Does that mean that those students at Vermont don't deserve to be called medical doctor? Several years ago the average gpa for allopthic schools was 3.4 So those doctors that are practicing today, shouldn't be called medical doctor because of their "lower gpa?"

Many arguments are scare or threat arugments, MacGuyver, could you please cite your reference for giving a change in jurisdiction that would be afforded to the AMA giving authority over osteopathic schools when DO is changed to MD-O? I would like to read the case law.

Buy the way, the name change is to MD-O not MD. MD-O preserves the osteopathic speciality.
 

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I'm so embarrased to be a future DO student. No wonder people in the pre-allo forum make fun of us.

Anybody reading this thread will have all the reasons in the world to think that DO's are a bunch of whiny, low self-esteem, recognition-hungry losers.

To all future DO's who are complaining about the degree and are ashamed of it and are tired of explaining what a DO is:

** YOU SHOULD HAVE GONE TO MD SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!! **

These threads are seriously getting on my nerves.

DO's deserve every single bit of stigma, discrimination, and mockery that allopathic students, residency PD's and pre-allos pour on both the degree and the DO students. What a bunch of crap. What do you suppose people think when they read this garbage?

You guys can petition the AOA to change the degree to MD-O (what a stupid sounding degree. "Kind of like an MD, but not quite...you know, like a lesser MD").

I'm going to be a DO , proud of it, and I'll explain it to whoever I have to anytime, anywhere. And thank you people, thank you Oh so very much for contributing to the stigma attached to the DO degree. How can the public respect the degree and its holders if the very students that will have the degree don't want it?

I have a much better idea to solve the "problem." Close all DO schools or convert them to MD schools, under the accreditation of the LCME. Make the DO degree obsolete and offer those already practicing with the DO degree a conversion to the MD degree (with some refresher courses). Retired DO's will be eligible for the conversion on a voluntary basis. Those studying for the DO degree will earn the MD degree instead. Take primary care residency programs like FP and IM and offer OMT either as an elective or as part of the residency itself. Perhaps offer OMT as a fellowship for FP and IM graduates. Happy?
 

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actually enjoy explaining to people what a D.O. is.
we are medical doctors in every sense, just from a unique school of thoughts.
As far as AMA's concern, if i'm not mistaken, they've been offering an osteopathic seat at the association as a specialty and i'm pretty sure they would be more than happy if DOs change their name to MD........why? because M.D.s = AMA members = more member fees
AMA takes thousands of foreign MDs yearly, they sure would love another extra 2000+ new fees every year from us.

i think our focus shouldn't be changing our name, hell we all know we're gonna have a D.O. after our name even before our first day of class, why all of sudden it's not good enough? we should focus on more QUALITY OSTEOPATHIC RESIDENCIES!!

be proud of your title, we work hard to get it.

one more thing, has anybody go through an inpatient rotation (peds, IM, OB/Gyn, Surg, others) with OMM&OPP as part of the curriculum........... there's none here in SoCal, even the ones with osteopathic residencies......... OMM is always a separate lecture
 

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People are wasting way too much ATP going back and forth on this topic on this forum. You are losing your perspective on this !!!!

Lets just take our ideas and someday run for seats on boards and get involved in gov't.

I have vowed to run for senate when I retire. Only when physicians (especially do's) get intimately involved with such a powerful decision making factory as congress will a change in policy occur whether it be MD/DO crap or anything medically related.

We need to start being heard at a place other than SDN (but SDN is a great start).

I just wonder if all of the people posting on SDN are as agressive in the real world on such issues...I don't think so.
 

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These last arguments demonstrate a failure to understand the meaning of medical doctor.

For example, oriental medical doctors are medical doctors. The fact that they use the term medical doctor according to your thinking should suck them into the allopathic world because they are OMD's. But it doesn't, they are very commited to their practice of oriental medicine.The diffence is they are not allowed to sit for the medical licensure board. But the term medical doctor does not change their orientation.

It is like the word sale. Sale does not mean something is being sold for a lowere price, it just means something is being sold.

Medical doctor is not a patented term, it just means you are preson who treats people for medical problems. Isn't that what you are?

MDO doesn't change down grade or loose the osteopathic orientation, infact it brings the legitimacy to the field in the eyes of the public who would otherwise bypass a DO (for example in the phone book) because they don't know that a DO is a medical doctor. It does not stigmatize the field. How can you stigmatize a field when the greater population of the US doesn't even know what a DO is? And waiting for the AOA to promote the cause of DO's has proven to be a futile endevor.


As far as the AMA, they have a committee for osteopathic medicine. I attended it last year in Hawaii. The AMA was not trying to change it or down grade the DO's. Futhermore many DO's are members of the AMA, this doesn't lessen or threatnen the osteopathic philosophy.


Your failing to see that the term medical doctor does not carry an orientation with it. It only means that you treat medical problems. And that is what you do as an osteopath you treat medical problems. Your not a plumber, or a chemist, your a medical doctor.Why are you so afraid to assume your rightful place and claim your title medical doctor?
 

Shinken

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Originally posted by Sonic Wig
MDO doesn't change down grade or loose the osteopathic orientation, infact it brings the legitimacy to the field in the eyes of the public who would otherwise bypass a DO (for example in the phone book) because they don't know that a DO is a medical doctor. It does not stigmatize the field. How can you stigmatize a field when the greater population of the US doesn't even know what a DO is? And waiting for the AOA to promote the cause of DO's has proven to be a futile endevor.

Then the problem is to educate the public as to who DO's are, not change the degree. That's ridiculous and embarrasing.

If I want people to know who I am I'll do something that'll capture the attention of the people (participate in American Idol, run for office, save a little kitten, open a free-clinic in the inner city). That's the right way to get people to know who I am. The wrong way is to say "people don't know who I am, so I'll change my name to George W. Bush and that way people will instantly recognize my name." Stupid with a huge, capital S.

If you want people to know what a DO is, stop hiding your degree. It's stupid to say "people don't know what a DO is, so let's change the degree to MD." STUPID.

How legitimate do you want the DO degree to be? We have FULL practice rights in any SPECIALTY of MEDICINE in all 50 STATES and several FOREIGN countries. How much more legitimacy is needed?

In my phonebook, DO's and MD's are listed together, not separate. There's no way to avoid DO's when looking for doctors (and there are DO's in all categories, from neurosurgery to acupuncture).

Chiropractors are the laughing stock of the allopathic medical community. Yet, everywhere you go you see signs for "Chiropractor" with a medical symbol on the sign. Everyone knows who a Doctor of Chiropractic (DC) is. WHY? BECAUSE THEY DON'T HIDE THEIR DEGREE OR THEIR APPROACH TO MEDICAL CARE. You don't see chiropractors going public saying things like "you know, I only went to DC school because I couldn't get into MD school." "You know, I went to DC school but I really think chiropractic is a bunch of crap." "You know, maybe we should change the degree from DC to MD-C."

You can quote me on this: THE DAY OSTEOPATHIC PHYSICIANS HAVE THE BALLS AND PRIDE THAT CHIROPRACTORS HAVE IN THEIR PROFESSION IS THE DAY THAT OSTEOPATHIC PHYSICIANS WILL BE KNOWN BY THE PUBLIC.

You guys go ahead and whine about your pitiful, little degree that doesn't have the letters "MD" in it and therefore isn't "legitimate." I'm too busy getting ready to become a physician.
 

haujun

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Are there any REAL practing osteopathic physicians who want the letters change? Sonic WIg and others who want the letters change, your argument would have been more convincing if you actually graduated from medical school, finish residency and actually spend some ten or so years treating patients. Seriously, do you really know osteopthic medicine and what it needs??? :rolleyes:
 

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Originally posted by Sonic Wig
MacGuyver, could you please cite your reference for giving a change in jurisdiction that would be afforded to the AMA giving authority over osteopathic schools when DO is changed to MD-O? I would like to read the case law.

Buy the way, the name change is to MD-O not MD. MD-O preserves the osteopathic speciality.

several people were talking about changing it "MD" not "MD-O"

Obviously the latter is outside the purview of allopathic assocations.

All I'm saying is that if DOs want the MD title, they'll have to give up control of their schools and accreditation process to do that. The AOA would never agree to that, so I dont see it happening anytime soon.
 

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Originally posted by governator
actually enjoy explaining to people what a D.O. is.
we are medical doctors in every sense, just from a unique school of thoughts.
As far as AMA's concern, if i'm not mistaken, they've been offering an osteopathic seat at the association as a specialty and i'm pretty sure they would be more than happy if DOs change their name to MD........why? because M.D.s = AMA members = more member fees
AMA takes thousands of foreign MDs yearly, they sure would love another extra 2000+ new fees every year from us.

AMA and the LCME arent going to give you something for nothing. They'll give DOs the MD title, but only if the DOs give up control and licensing/accreditation process of DO schools.
 
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