The need to be a physician as young as possible

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I'm not sure why students have this idea that once you're "done" that life becomes suddenly awesome. I finished residency this year and only became board certified earlier this week and I'm in my 30s. I suddenly make a lot more money but it's not as if my quality of life shot up instantly. I took a cushy job (and probably sacrificed some income as a result) but others in my residency class are working A LOT harder as attendings now than they did as senior residents.

By the same token, it's not like life before now was all drudgery. Having to be a glorified ass-kisser MS3 was probably the worst year of my life, but I had a lot of fun outside of school during that time. I got to go to theater shows, I had MLS season tickets, I played on my school's inter-grad school soccer team that played against other city med schools for a season, and I went out just about every weekend. In residency I lived in one of the trendiest neighborhoods in the country, met Ms. Ox, traveled a lot, ran a few marathons, went to a ton of concerts, and still somehow saved 8% of my income for retirement.
First off congrats and secondly damn it sounds like you stayed busy but im really glad to hear you were still able to have some fun and enjoy life. Hopefully ill find the same rhythm in med school/residency/life!!! Income aside being able to enjoy life outside of work/school is definitely something I want to be able to do as I get older so id probably do the same as you with a comfy job.
 
First off congrats and secondly damn it sounds like you stayed busy but im really glad to hear you were still able to have some fun and enjoy life. Hopefully ill find the same rhythm in med school/residency/life!!! Income aside being able to enjoy life outside of work/school is definitely something I want to be able to do as I get older so id probably do the same as you with a comfy job.

Perhaps a little too comfy. I had a zero percent show rate today in my clinic and I'm still not done with this week's paperwork. Explains why I've wasted so much time online today.
 
Psych... though I only had patient scheduled today in the afternoon and all 3 were 1 hour intakes. My clinics the other days of the week are already packed.
Just to derail things a bit, what led you to decide on psych? I am very interested in psych but I am afraid it would get super-frustrating to feel like many people cannot be healed/cured/have dramatic improvement. But maybe that is a mistaken impression on my part?
 
Just to derail things a bit, what led you to decide on psych? I am very interested in psych but I am afraid it would get super-frustrating to feel like many people cannot be healed/cured/have dramatic improvement. But maybe that is a mistaken impression on my part?

It is to an extent, but it's a common misconception. Students don't get a lot of exposure to patients over the long-term so they don't see the process involved in people getting better. And actually that frustration is common in junior residents too because in the vast majority of programs focus almost entirely on inpatient work during the first two years so all they see is the acuity and the frequent flyers. Once you start seeing patients over the long-term you see some dramatic improvement, but it takes time.
 
Does age matter to you guys. At the earliest it will be 4 years, 4 year med, 4 year res, a and than practice. But taking a year or two longer or even more than that to get accepted to med school may delay starting age of starting to practice. Does that bother you guys at all? Like I want to done as early as possible.
Actually, I'm very glad that I did NOT spend my 20s in medical school and residency. Don't wish your life away, my friend. I remember thinking how far away 40 seemed when I was 20. Now that I'm 40 and in practice, I can only wonder at how fast a human lifetime goes by. Don't be one of those guys or gals who is so busy trying to get somewhere fast that you forget to live your life. Stop and smell the roses a bit. Take a whole year off even and go travel or work or whatever other non-medical related dream you want to do. It gets harder to do things like that just for fun as you get further along in life and have more responsibilities.
 
I will be 28 when I am done with med school. I am happy with that 😉
 
It is to an extent, but it's a common misconception. Students don't get a lot of exposure to patients over the long-term so they don't see the process involved in people getting better. And actually that frustration is common in junior residents too because in the vast majority of programs focus almost entirely on inpatient work during the first two years so all they see is the acuity and the frequent flyers. Once you start seeing patients over the long-term you see some dramatic improvement, but it takes time.
That is wonderful to hear. Thank you for the info!
 
IMO, if you really want to be a doctor, don't wait. I came to medical school right out of college and do not regret it. I hang out with classmates, run, play basketball, and do other activities outside of school and academics. It's really what you make of it. Though, I believe that most people are biased towards their own choices and experiences so take the advice given here with a grain of salt. Remember to have fun and don't be too serious.
 
Just to derail things a bit, what led you to decide on psych? I am very interested in psych but I am afraid it would get super-frustrating to feel like many people cannot be healed/cured/have dramatic improvement. But maybe that is a mistaken impression on my part?
That's the majority of most of the patients you'll see in any non-surgical/interventional field. Aside from the rare healthy person that gets a freak illness, most of your patients are circling the drain already, and all you can do is slow them down a bit. Psychiatry is actually one of the few fields where proper intervention can substantially not only lengthen someone's life, but improve the quality of it.
 
Just to derail things a bit, what led you to decide on psych? I am very interested in psych but I am afraid it would get super-frustrating to feel like many people cannot be healed/cured/have dramatic improvement. But maybe that is a mistaken impression on my part?
That's what research is for. And fortunately for you, my friend, you are living in what many consider to be the golden age for neuroscience research.
In 10 years, you might sing a different tune. : P
 
That's what research is for. And fortunately for you, my friend, you are living in what many consider to be the golden age for neuroscience research.
In 10 years, you might sing a different tune. : P

Sadly the gap between much of that research and actual clinical practice is still massive. Plus, I'm cynical about a lot of that stuff given the access to care issues that we have with even basic mental health care.

I don't really give a **** about the "future of psychiatry". We have enough problems to solve in the present.
 
That's the majority of most of the patients you'll see in any non-surgical/interventional field. Aside from the rare healthy person that gets a freak illness, most of your patients are circling the drain already, and all you can do is slow them down a bit. Psychiatry is actually one of the few fields where proper intervention can substantially not only lengthen someone's life, but improve the quality of it.

I think that this reflects the bias of clinicians who are in acute care settings exclusively. For primary care providers and many specialists such as rheumatology, allergy, derm, PM&R the patients are maintaining or improving their health status.
 
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At the earliest it will be 4 years, 4 year med, 4 year res, a and than practice.
You could easily shave a few more years off. You could finish undergrad in 2 years (albeit - you won't have much of a life).
Pick a residency that only require 3 years...


Does that bother you guys at all?
It used to. I initially wanted to start med school and was hoping to be done with med school by the time I was 24. But I was rejected my first round - lol. I was a bit disappointed but now it doesn't really bother me. I spent 4 years between undergrad and starting med school doing a few things I thought I would have to give up - but in the end I'm glad I had some time to experience them.

If I go back in time - and was accepted when I was 20 into med school - I would probably have still enrolled into med school,... but maybe when I graduated from med school at 24, I would have wished I had time to try some other things. Don't worry about it - whatever happens, will happen.
 
Sadly the gap between much of that research and actual clinical practice is still massive. Plus, I'm cynical about a lot of that stuff given the access to care issues that we have with even basic mental health care.

I don't really give a **** about the "future of psychiatry". We have enough problems to solve in the present.
Ah, this is better discussed in the allopathic forums. And I agree with what you're saying. . . QUALITY basic mental health care access should be the first priority, and there's enough work to do for multiple lifetimes.

But I have reasons to stay optimistic.
 
Does age matter to you guys. At the earliest it will be 4 years, 4 year med, 4 year res, a and than practice. But taking a year or two longer or even more than that to get accepted to med school may delay starting age of starting to practice. Does that bother you guys at all? Like I want to done as early as possible.

As a fairly young attending it gets old pretty quickly when patients say I'm too young. The other day the nurse jokingly said she wanted to card me in the OR, this irritated me a little....
 
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As a fairly young attending it gets old pretty quickly when patient's say I'm too young. The other day the nurse jokingly said she wanted to card me in the OR, this irritated me a little....
It's a bit disrespectful, yeah. I mean it's that whole "I subconsciously think you're not qualified to be my doctor" thing. I can understand why it would upset you.
 
Just starting my road to becoming a doctor. Won't even apply until 2017 and as badly as I want to become a doctor RIGHT MIAOW I'm also enjoying the process.

I work in hospice and make really good money for a 24 year old. I actually also really enjoy my job and it is what has lit a fire under my butt to take on pursuing my dream.

At the same time, I'm really enjoying traveling. I'm traveling to Bali and Australia this spring, South America in 2017 and Europe on my honeymoon in 2018. I'm also getting married before I start med school (here's hoping I get in).

I also got to play basketball in college. If I had been super focused on getting into med school I probably would have quit playing. It is an experience I would never give up.

By the time I plan to matriculate I will be 27. I have siblings who are 9 and 11 years younger than me. If I were in med school right now I would be missing out watching my sister be a star on her middle school basketball team and compete at nationals in Equestrian riding, and watch my brother... Lay on the couch. If I rushed any of this and became a doctor as soon as possible I would have missed out on so much that I have enjoyed in my short 24 year old life. Yes I want to be a doctor, but I also want to be a wife, and a traveler, and a big sister, and a (former) collegiate athlete. So I'm enjoying the process, and enjoying the 9-10 hours of sleep I get a night more than probably anything else. 😴
 
Also, more than prepared to get the "You look like you're twelve" once I am a doctor. All of my peers have 10+ years on me, and all of my friends I've made post-college graduation have 10-15 years on me.
 
On the topic of finals: seeing people post how much they struggle for their grades, it makes me wonder why bother to stay on the path if you can't find a work-life balance now, how are you going to do it as an attending?

In other words; if you think you will start playing tennis once your are "done", you should start doing it now; and if you can't, then find a profession that won't consume all of your life.

That way you will be living in the moment, instead of constantly looking into your life 10 years from now.
 
I am all for life experience and trying new things and being more mature and well rounded or whatever----all the things that come with time and life outside of school---but to me, the payoff(literally and otherwise) of going from college to dental school to residency to work one after the other with no breaks was very worth it.
 
I am all for life experience and trying new things and being more mature and well rounded or whatever----all the things that come with time and life outside of school---but to me, the payoff(literally and otherwise) of going from college to dental school to residency to work one after the other with no breaks was very worth it.

I honestly feel that life is what you make it! You can have amazing life experiences and all of these other things while in school! It's all about balance and paying attention to yourself.
 
On the topic of finals: seeing people post how much they struggle for their grades, it makes me wonder why bother to stay on the path if you can't find a work-life balance now, how are you going to do it as an attending?

In other words; if you think you will start playing tennis once your are "done", you should start doing it now; and if you can't, then find a profession that won't consume all of your life.

That way you will be living in the moment, instead of constantly looking into your life 10 years from now.

Sorry but I'd rather have something like this from someone that knows what they're talking about
 
I personally want to be as young as possible - no gap year, no research year, streamlined everything to get out as young as possible, which will be 30 for me after a surgical residency.

My reasoning is to be an attending as young as possible to be able to truly have a full-fledged occupation (pay-wise), be able to get out of residency to lesser hours and spend more time with family, and practice for a longer duration since surgeons in the field I want to go into [don't typically] practice into their 70s.

I think you can go through life and enjoy it and balance the desire to get out as soon as possible. I've been doing it and enjoying it quite a bit!
 
You sound like a dental student 😀

But in all seriousness, it's a process: enjoy every step of it. There's nothing magical waiting at the end of it.
"There's nothign waiting at the end of it." Except cold, hard cash. Hopefully.
 
I'll be 25 when I start. And it bugs me a little that if I had planned things out a little better I could be in my 2nd year right now. But at the end of the day I'm able to pursue my dream, and I know many people aren't so fortunate.
 
I am all for life experience and trying new things and being more mature and well rounded or whatever----all the things that come with time and life outside of school---but to me, the payoff(literally and otherwise) of going from college to dental school to residency to work one after the other with no breaks was very worth it.
I found the non-financial aspects to be nice myself. Can't put a price on being a young troublemaker with no responsibility.
 
I personally want to be as young as possible - no gap year, no research year, streamlined everything to get out as young as possible, which will be 30 for me after a surgical residency.

My reasoning is to be an attending as young as possible to be able to truly have a full-fledged occupation (pay-wise), be able to get out of residency to lesser hours and spend more time with family, and practice for a longer duration since surgeons in the field I want to go into [don't typically] practice into their 70s.

I think you can go through life and enjoy it and balance the desire to get out as soon as possible. I've been doing it and enjoying it quite a bit!
It's hard to find balance in an 80 hour a week surgical residency. Basically, you hasn't to choose- do I focus on developing myself as a person or developing my career? It is very, very hard to do both, particularly if you are interested in high hour, competitive residencies.
 
Depends on what they say, my favorite one is:

"Are you really a doctor?"
-Hold on let me check, *look at my badge*, yup says so right there.

You just say really corny stuff and it works ridiculously better than you would think. Try it.

Reminds me of when an ENT intern was doing his 1 month's time in the ED. Walks up to a patient that was cursing out everyone, and the patient looks at him and says, "ENT? Are you a doctor?"

ENT guy looks at his badge, points to the "MD" and says, "Yea, see it says 'MD.'"
 
I'm just saying, for those that have the option, it is often worth slowing down. Not always.


For what it's worth, I wouldn't have "slowed down" even if I hadn't had any of those factors. Since we don't have children yet, I can still do a lot of things that I wanted to and probably would have done if I had taken time off(mainly traveling)
 
For what it's worth, I wouldn't have "slowed down" even if I hadn't had any of those factors. Since we don't have children yet, I can still do a lot of things that I wanted to and probably would have done if I had taken time off(mainly traveling)
You also went to dental school though- it's a shorter course of training and honestly I think it's worth doing straight through since you still have a good chunk of your twenties left and a good income to boot. Do that with residency and you're usually not done until 30, even later if you do fellowships. I certainly wouldn't have liked to miss out on all the fun I had to be in residency instead for those years, ugh.
 
You also went to dental school though- it's a shorter course of training and honestly I think it's worth doing straight through since you still have a good chunk of your twenties left and a good income to boot. Do that with residency and you're usually not done until 30, even later if you do fellowships. I certainly wouldn't have liked to miss out on all the fun I had to be in residency instead for those years, ugh.


Not sure what your point is here. Obviously I went to dental school, and some of our residencies are just as long as yours.
 
Not sure what your point is here. Obviously I went to dental school, and some of our residencies are just as long as yours.
my point was that the 20s are the most valuable and formative years of a person's life, and, as a dentist, you got a few years of them even going straight through. I would have gone the same route for that reason. Medicine though, even with the very shortest route possible barring BS-MD programs is going to land you at 29, but the vast majority of US students end up in residencies and fellowships that would push them into their early-to-mid 30s. So I say take a year or three of those 20s to enjoy (if you can) for those going the medical route, because a year of your 20s with minimal responsibilities is something you can never get back.
 
my point was that the 20s are the most valuable and formative years of a person's life, and, as a dentist, you got a few years of them even going straight through. I would have gone the same route for that reason. Medicine though, even with the very shortest route possible barring BS-MD programs is going to land you at 29, but the vast majority of US students end up in residencies and fellowships that would push them into their early-to-mid 30s. So I say take a year or three of those 20s to enjoy (if you can) for those going the medical route, because a year of your 20s with minimal responsibilities is something you can never get back.


Stop arguing with me. I'm not arguing with you..
 
I would say that being young so far has been a disadvantage when it comes to patient trust. Im going into pediatrics and parents hate hate hate that I don't look experienced. One of the most common questions I get is "so how many times have you seen this before?". Im glad that I got to go straight through everything and that Im still young doing what I want, but patients definitely want the older person as their doctor, even if they don't say it. Nobody wants to feel like my first patient, even though they aren't. I have looked the same since I was 15, although now I can grow a little more facial hair, and dressing professional doesn't help me that much. If I walked into the clinic with a t-shirt and a hoodie on everyone would think I was one of the pediatric patients. Even with my white coat on people still think I'm dressing up for halloween or something. My youngest brother, who is almost 10 years younger than me, is in high school and when I went to drop his lunch off for him the other day, the attendance lady at his school thought I was a student signing in late for class. At times its funny, but I really do wish I could make my patients trust me on more than just my appearance.
 
I was never arguing. I don't get why you view every exchange we have as an argument. Even when I agree with you you think I'm arguing with you half the time lol.


Because you act like a condescending know it all about mostly everything and when you get called out, you retreat back into your "but I was just agreeing with you!" corner. It's odd.
 
Because you act like a condescending know it all about mostly everything and when you get called out, you retreat back into your "but I was just agreeing with you!" corner. It's odd.
I'm just sharing my opinions- I don't believe them to be right or wrong, just opinions. You think things must be right or wrong, because you're a very black and white sort of person, so you make the assumption that my expressing something means I believe it to be a universal truth or something, which is far from the case.

And I did agree with you- I stated that if I were in dentistry, I'd go straight through. With the longer path of medicine, I just think it's too many years of suck. All work and no play until it's time to adult sounds pretty awful to me (personally).
 
I'm just sharing my opinions- I don't believe them to be right or wrong, just opinions. You think things must be right or wrong, because you're a very black and white sort of person, so you make the assumption that my expressing something means I believe it to be a universal truth or something, which is far from the case.

And I did agree with you- I stated that if I were in dentistry, I'd go straight through. With the longer path of medicine, I just think it's too many years of suck. All work and no play until it's time to adult sounds pretty awful to me (personally).


Yes, because off white/gray/unclear areas lead to drama that I have no time or tolerance for in my life. I didn't get to this point in my life by floating around in a maze of bull**** and flowers and butterflies.

Glad we agreed on something.
 
Yes, because off white/gray/unclear areas lead to drama that I have no time or tolerance for in my life. I didn't get to this point in my life by floating around in a maze of bull**** and flowers and butterflies.

Glad we agreed on something.
And I think that is ultimately what this whole thread is about- the clash between practicality and sentimentality as it relates to people's opinions about finishing school as quickly as possible versus taking their time. I'm a sentimental person myself, so I'm all about experience trumping outcome.
 
And I think that is ultimately what this whole thread is about- the clash between practicality and sentimentality as it relates to people's opinions about finishing school as quickly as possible versus taking their time. I'm a sentimental person myself, so I'm all about experience trumping outcome.


Sentimental, huh
 
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