The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

[followyourbliss]

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Partied all of undergrad. Had amazing time. Met many cool people and hopefully became a pretty well rounded person. Last thing on my mind was becoming a doctor. Of course, I thought it would be amazing but I assumed it was for the ridiculously smart. Hah! (I was naive - no friends or family in medicine at the time) So I didnt even try. Majored in Bio figuring I would go to grad school and figure it out there. During 4th year realized I just needed to do the work and I could get the grades to be even a doctor. Began studying like someone who wanted to go to med school halfway thru senior yr of UG.

Graduated UG in 4.5 years due to some health issues (1 year p/t cert. nursing asst during last yr) Many Ws, a bunch of Cs, and 2 Ds
UG GPA ~2.7
(retook 5 courses after I graduated)
UG GPA 2.81
1 year emplyment: Hospital Tech (exp critical for the non-traditional) during which time I applied to 1 post-bacc and was willing to apply to others following year, but got accepted.
Drexel MSP=graduated 2 years later w/ MS in biology (other med exps)
Grad GPA 3.81
MCAT 28
Applied to DO & MD (learned about DO and wrote good letters for both)
4 DO interviews 4 acceptances (cancelled 3)
2 MD interviews 2 acceptances
(this is where the UG socializing came in handy!)
Now completing 2nd year med school (MD) and outscoring classmates with much higher UG GPAs and MCAT

Never give up, but careful for what you wish for. If you think you would be quite happy doing something else, than do that. I knew I couldn't accept anything else and so now I'm living my dream every day. Good luck 🙂

 

[rjjeer]

I majoring in chemistry and graduating spring 2009. My overall GPA is 2.5 👎-I went to school over 6 years ago and never went to classes and received F's for almost 3 semesters-not consecutively. I have retaken all the coursework, obtained A's and B's in the med school pre-req classes-but those past F's were in the pre-req coursework.

These past grades drastically brought down my GPA (to the 2.5) and now I am unsure what to do. Most schools will average in all pre-req work, even if it is repeated. My pre-med adviser suggested post-bacc work or to look into off shore schools. I have plenty of medical related experience, volunteer work and recommendations from MD's, DO's and research scientists (I work in a hospital and have done many hours of research work)-but a terrible transcript-due to my past.

😕 Any suggestions?😕

(also, I have not taken the MCAT's as of yet, looking to sign up for an exam date-or possibly wait???)

 

[spicyblue08]

ok so here are my stats

Currently @
UGPA: 2.84
BCPM: 2.69

Anticipated @ Graduation
UGPA: 2.9
BCPM 2.7

MCAT:
9V, 11PS, 10BS, O

The Good:
ECs w/ leadership, compelling story, research 3 years, volunteer/shadowing all summers, busted my *** this past year, As and Bs in Phys Chem Calc and upper level neuro courses)

The Bad:
5 year undergrad @ an Ivy, AcPro, bad semesters (immature), Bs and Cs (and some retake) in Orgo and Biochem and cell bio courses


What should I do

1. Look at SMPs (BU, Drexel, Gtown)
2. Formal enhancing post baccs (Upenn Special Science, HES)

Any advice

 

[Perrotfish]

What should I do

1. Look at SMPs (BU, Drexel, Gtown)
2. Formal enhancing post baccs (Upenn Special Science, HES)

SMPs are probably the shorter road to med school for you. More Ugrad classes mean you need to get your GPA to around a 3.4 to be competitive, and that´s a long way to go from a 2.8

 

[Maxprime]

SMPs are probably the shorter road to med school for you. More Ugrad classes mean you need to get your GPA to around a 3.4 to be competitive, and that´s a long way to go from a 2.8

I disagree about the use of SMPs for this purpose. I think it is a much wiser course to max out your undergrad GPA before entering an SMP for a few reasons. By max out your GPA, I mean continue to improve it until the effort required no longer is worth it - for most people I expect this to be around the 180 hour/credit mark.

If you are in an SMP and applying that year, you have to convince schools to wait on making a decision on you until January (when you get grades). If you have a 2.8, even a great MCAT score won't keep you from getting rejected by the overwhelming majority of schools - let alone wait for your new grades. They have plenty of applicants with higher GPAs in SMPs that they will wait for.

If you go straight to an SMP without changing your GPA, what happens if you finish your SMP and don't get in? Do you then go BACK to undergraduate work and try to fix your GPA?

Finally, you have to prove that you belong at a medical school. You need to put together a full year of 3.7+ GPA work in a full load of science classes while doing ECs. If someone with grades like mine from undergrad (consistently mediocre) never shows they can excel at the undergraduate level, then ADCOMs don't have a great metric to compare you against other applicants without post-undergraduate work.

Just because fixing your GPA is a tough route to go, that doesn't mean it's the wrong route.

Don't take my word for it, get more opinions - these are pretty big decisions. I think doing an SMP with a low GPA (without a year of excellent work) is putting all your eggs in one basket.

Worst of all, if you think you're ready but you're not, doing poorly in an SMP is pretty much the end of the road. If you do poorly in M1 classes, you will REALLY have a tough time convincing someone you belong in medical school. At least with a post-bacc you can scale back classes to get better grades. Again, just my .02.

 

[Perrotfish]

Don't take my word for it, get more opinions - these are pretty big decisions. I think doing an SMP with a low GPA (without a year of excellent work) is putting all your eggs in one basket.

My opinion: I think that doing an SMP is putting all your eggs in one basket, whenever you do it. You do well and you get in, with at worst a lag year. Screw up and you need to find a new career. What your GPA is when you go into an SMP is almost irrelevant other than for purposes of getting into the SMP, since these programs can so effectively fix bad GPAs (or ruin good ones). I don´t see the point of taking more Undergrad if you know you want to get into the SMP anyway and can get in now.

 

[LiciaMarie0981]

Hey all,

Just wanted to share my pathetic postbac story:

-completed: Bio1, Chem 1, Phys 1
-grades: Bio1 D, Chem 1 B-, Phys 1 B
-courses currently taking: chem 2, Phys 2 (expecting to get an A or A- in chem, probably at least a B in Phys 2)
-planning on retaking Bio 1 in the summer, Orgo 1&2, and Bio 2 next year
-3.2 cumulative undergrad GPA, was a communications major
-with my "outstanding" performance last semester, I managed to bring my "already low GPA" to even lower number.....🙁
-obviously doesn't have too much time to do lots of extracurricular activities...I've been shadowing a surgeon in and out of the OR and have been really enjoying it but I definitely lack clinical/research experience

The thing is, I have a non-medical related, 30hour/wk job that I absolutely must keep to support myself financially. I know it was very unwise of me to take 3 classes last semester but I wanted to save myself some time. (How I wish I could go back and drop Bio 1!)

My parents are less than supportive of my decision to apply to Medical School because I am already 25 years old and still have ridiculous amount of debt from my undergrad institution. I don't think I can take more than basic sciences to bring my GPA up simply because I can't afford to pay for them. I already maxed out on student loan for my post-bac program.

Even if I do miraculously well on MCAT, is it realistic for me to think that I can go to med school? My friends jokingly say that the only way I can get into med school, is as a cadaver.

 

[DrJD]

Hey all,

Just wanted to share my pathetic postbac story:

-completed: Bio1, Chem 1, Phys 1
-grades: Bio1 D, Chem 1 B-, Phys 1 B
-courses currently taking: chem 2, Phys 2 (expecting to get an A or A- in chem, probably at least a B in Phys 2)
-planning on retaking Bio 1 in the summer, Orgo 1&2, and Bio 2 next year
-3.2 cumulative undergrad GPA, was a communications major
-with my "outstanding" performance last semester, I managed to bring my "already low GPA" to even lower number.....🙁
-obviously doesn't have too much time to do lots of extracurricular activities...I've been shadowing a surgeon in and out of the OR and have been really enjoying it but I definitely lack clinical/research experience

The thing is, I have a non-medical related, 30hour/wk job that I absolutely must keep to support myself financially. I know it was very unwise of me to take 3 classes last semester but I wanted to save myself some time. (How I wish I could go back and drop Bio 1!)

My parents are less than supportive of my decision to apply to Medical School because I am already 25 years old and still have ridiculous amount of debt from my undergrad institution. I don't think I can take more than basic sciences to bring my GPA up simply because I can't afford to pay for them. I already maxed out on student loan for my post-bac program.

Even if I do miraculously well on MCAT, is it realistic for me to think that I can go to med school? My friends jokingly say that the only way I can get into med school, is as a cadaver.

If you are passionate about it, don't give up. Where there is a will, there is a way... Have you taken the MCAT yet? Are you done with the pre-reqs? 3.2 is definitely salvagable... Your options would be to continue to work on the undergrad GPA (long) or a good SMP (short)... Personally, I'd recommend getting the HIGHEST MCAT score you can, and then doing an SMP. I dont know how many units you have but likely if you continue taking courses your GPA will only go up very little. Also, if you retake classes the old ones stay on your med school application, they essentially average the grades. So sometimes its actually better not to waste time retaking.

All that said, don't let your age dissuade you. If you are passionate about it, I say go for it. If you want to share more details I'd be happy to offer any more advice that I can, from my limited perspective. All the best.

 

[Perrotfish]

Even if I do miraculously well on MCAT, is it realistic for me to think that I can go to med school? My friends jokingly say that the only way I can get into med school, is as a cadaver.

If you do very well on the MCAT, and in your remaining classes, and shadow a DO, and get a letter of rec from a DO, and apply to every DO school out there, you have a slim shot of getting into a DO school. Allo? Not without an increase in your grades, an SMP, or maybe a 35 MCAT and a very easy state school. You have a very good chance at the islands, but of course that involves it´s own host of problems once your in, not the least of which is more debt.

There are also PA programs. I hate to tell someone who wants to be a doctor to look into something else, but considering your situation you might want to look into their requirements.

 

[LiciaMarie0981]

Aren't DO schools as competitive as Allo schools nowadays since more people consider applying? I have also heard that DO schools replace your old grade with the new one without averaging them out. I am not sure if that's true. I really would not mind going to a DO school no matter what some people tell me about it.

 

[Perrotfish]

Aren't DO schools as competitive as Allo schools nowadays since more people consider applying? I have also heard that DO schools replace your old grade with the new one without averaging them out. I am not sure if that's true. I really would not mind going to a DO school no matter what some people tell me about it.

They´re close, but not quite as bad (I think they have an average of a 3.5 and a 29? I´m not at all sure about that, though. I´m 100% sure MD schools have a matriculant average of a 3.7 and a 31). Yes, for your application DO schools replace grades when you retake a class, while Allo schools average the grades. Also, to be clear, the allo schools see both grades, so they´ll know you got an F and then an A, rather than a C.

 

[PlAnEjaNe]

They´re close, but not quite as bad (I think they have an average of a 3.5 and a 29? I´m not at all sure about that, though. I´m 100% sure MD schools have a matriculant average of a 3.7 and a 31). Yes, for your application DO schools replace grades when you retake a class, while Allo schools average the grades. Also, to be clear, the allo schools see both grades, so they´ll know you got an F and then an A, rather than a C.

Osteo schools see both grades as well, they just use the most recent retake for their gpa calculations (note that this does not mean the higher of the two; i.e. if you got a C the first time and decided to retake and got a D, the D will go into your gpa calculation and not the C).

-PlAnEjaNe

 

[zanaida10]

I'm so amazed to see so many people from UF and I'm so glad. I currently am doing my Undergrad at UF and it's complete hell. The cheating has gone through the roof, the teachers in core pre-med courses are meaner then ever and lets just say...I want to die here and wish I had never picked UF to do pre-med in. I went to USF for two semesters and ace'd my class by just working on it. Here...someone it's like elusive lady luck passes you by every time. I don't know. I'm probably just battered, bitter and in pain from this hell.

 

[zanaida10]

Thank you so much for the advice. I'm going to do just that! Before I just felt lost, not sure what to do but now I have a direction. Thanks again.

Its amazing that you've pulled through. Those are emotional rollercoasters and I don't think any medical schools would disregard those facts. I read something from a Medical Schools Committee member a while back about something similar. A girl with low GPA..ect..ect...who did not look like an amazing candidate was still accepted because she was able to explain in her personal statement the trauma she went through due to where she lived ect. It wasn't specific but they do take that into effect.


It'll happen if you explain, we're not machines who can't discount the emotional misery that life visits on us occasionally. I hope everything works out for you. Don't give up!

 

[Vihsadas]

I disagree about the use of SMPs for this purpose. I think it is a much wiser course to max out your undergrad GPA before entering an SMP for a few reasons. By max out your GPA, I mean continue to improve it until the effort required no longer is worth it - for most people I expect this to be around the 180 hour/credit mark.

If you are in an SMP and applying that year, you have to convince schools to wait on making a decision on you until January (when you get grades). If you have a 2.8, even a great MCAT score won't keep you from getting rejected by the overwhelming majority of schools - let alone wait for your new grades. They have plenty of applicants with higher GPAs in SMPs that they will wait for.

If you go straight to an SMP without changing your GPA, what happens if you finish your SMP and don't get in? Do you then go BACK to undergraduate work and try to fix your GPA?

Finally, you have to prove that you belong at a medical school. You need to put together a full year of 3.7+ GPA work in a full load of science classes while doing ECs. If someone with grades like mine from undergrad (consistently mediocre) never shows they can excel at the undergraduate level, then ADCOMs don't have a great metric to compare you against other applicants without post-undergraduate work.

Just because fixing your GPA is a tough route to go, that doesn't mean it's the wrong route.

Don't take my word for it, get more opinions - these are pretty big decisions. I think doing an SMP with a low GPA (without a year of excellent work) is putting all your eggs in one basket.

Worst of all, if you think you're ready but you're not, doing poorly in an SMP is pretty much the end of the road. If you do poorly in M1 classes, you will REALLY have a tough time convincing someone you belong in medical school. At least with a post-bacc you can scale back classes to get better grades. Again, just my .02.

I wholeheartedly agree with this post...In fact, it's what I'm doing right now. For pretty much the same reasons as above, and because I needed English, I decided to do a one year post-bacc before an SMP. In retrospect, even if I had already taken the English, it still would have been the right call for me to do the post bacc before the SMP. With a GPA below 3.0, I'm pretty convinced that you should do the undergraduate courses to get that GPA above 3.0 so that you will make the numeric cutoffs. Then do the SMP.

 

[wut2do]

I m so glad I found this thread. I have been searching the net for some answers. I had a really bad time at university when I started. I ended up having a very low gpa and had to withdraw. I could get into details but I rather focus on what can be done next.

I ended up going to college and I am graduating in a few weeks. I have always wanted to be a doctor and I know I have it in me, I just got start off on the wrong foot but I have made up for it. Now I want to go back to university and finish my bachelors so I can apply to medical school. The problem is that back in university I was told by a counsellor that i should just forget about any sort of formal school because of my grades. Does this mean that I can never attend medical school regardless of how well I do now?

If I have to I am willing to go overseas for school because this is what I want to be. However I would really prefer to stay in my home country (Canada) and go to school here. Do I have any hope? Does anyone know of anyone who has pulled off something like this. Some advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry if i posted this in the wrong forum, if there is a better forum to post this question in please let me know.
Thanks

 

[kai35]

It's not always just numbers.

 

[kai35]

Hey all,

Just wanted to share my pathetic postbac story:

-completed: Bio1, Chem 1, Phys 1
-grades: Bio1 D, Chem 1 B-, Phys 1 B
-courses currently taking: chem 2, Phys 2 (expecting to get an A or A- in chem, probably at least a B in Phys 2)
-planning on retaking Bio 1 in the summer, Orgo 1&2, and Bio 2 next year
-3.2 cumulative undergrad GPA, was a communications major
-with my "outstanding" performance last semester, I managed to bring my "already low GPA" to even lower number.....🙁
-obviously doesn't have too much time to do lots of extracurricular activities...I've been shadowing a surgeon in and out of the OR and have been really enjoying it but I definitely lack clinical/research experience

The thing is, I have a non-medical related, 30hour/wk job that I absolutely must keep to support myself financially. I know it was very unwise of me to take 3 classes last semester but I wanted to save myself some time. (How I wish I could go back and drop Bio 1!)

My parents are less than supportive of my decision to apply to Medical School because I am already 25 years old and still have ridiculous amount of debt from my undergrad institution. I don't think I can take more than basic sciences to bring my GPA up simply because I can't afford to pay for them. I already maxed out on student loan for my post-bac program.

Even if I do miraculously well on MCAT, is it realistic for me to think that I can go to med school? My friends jokingly say that the only way I can get into med school, is as a cadaver.

Just do good on the MCAT and pray.

 

[wut2do]

Doesn't anyone have any advice for me?🙁

 

[Perrotfish]

I m so glad I found this thread. I have been searching the net for some answers. I had a really bad time at university when I started. I ended up having a very low gpa and had to withdraw. I could get into details but I rather focus on what can be done next.

I ended up going to college and I am graduating in a few weeks. I have always wanted to be a doctor and I know I have it in me, I just got start off on the wrong foot but I have made up for it. Now I want to go back to university and finish my bachelors so I can apply to medical school. The problem is that back in university I was told by a counsellor that i should just forget about any sort of formal school because of my grades. Does this mean that I can never attend medical school regardless of how well I do now?

If I have to I am willing to go overseas for school because this is what I want to be. However I would really prefer to stay in my home country (Canada) and go to school here. Do I have any hope? Does anyone know of anyone who has pulled off something like this. Some advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry if i posted this in the wrong forum, if there is a better forum to post this question in please let me know.
Thanks

Doesn't anyone have any advice for me?

What is your current GPA?

How many credits have you taken?

How many credits are you going to take?

What, if any, classes are you going to retake, and what did you get in them the first time around?

Without knowing any of that, I can say difinitively that you CAN go to a US medical school if you want it, and get good grades from here on out, and maybe put in some more work after that (read through this thread). Without your stats, though, it´s hard to say how long, and how well on the MCAT you need to do.

Of course, you need to have resolved your origional problems, or things aren´t going to be any better the second time around.

DO schools replace grades, so worst case scenario is that you retake the classes you got Ds and Fs in, get all As, and get close to a 4.0.

 

[wut2do]

What is your current GPA?

How many credits have you taken?

How many credits are you going to take?

What, if any, classes are you going to retake, and what did you get in them the first time around?

Without knowing any of that, I can say difinitively that you CAN go to a US medical school if you want it, and get good grades from here on out, and maybe put in some more work after that (read through this thread). Without your stats, though, it´s hard to say how long, and how well on the MCAT you need to do.

Of course, you need to have resolved your origional problems, or things aren´t going to be any better the second time around.

DO schools replace grades, so worst case scenario is that you retake the classes you got Ds and Fs in, get all As, and get close to a 4.0.

Well my question rite now is, is it true that medical schools will not give u a second look despite of how well your doing now because of the fact that you flunked out before? Basically that its a dead end and I can never go to medical school in canada or the us because of it.That's the impression that I am under after that meeting with the counsellor all those years ago. I have read the thread and came across a couple of individuals who have actually done this, that why I thought I'd ask and see whether my impression (thanks to the counsellor) is wrong.

I'll ask more questions with my stats later on since rite now I just want to transfer to uni to finish my BSc with good grades.

 

[kai35]

Never give up.

 

[InquisitiveDoc]

I must say I have to agree with the above statement about numbers not being the sole determinant or the overwhelmingly most important part of a student's application. I guess for someone like me, I just have to believe that my mistakes in undergrad can be overturned and the possibility of me getting into medical school is still alive. I too know someone with a 3.89 GPA and stellar MCAT scores (can't remember the exact number) and didn't get into medical school. Ultimately, I feel that it isn't just about mastering the difficult science involved with the profession. Remember that essentially the medical field, for the most part, does involve interacting with everyday people who are not only looking for answers to possible medical issues but are looking for compassion and someone that can talk to them without making them feel inferior. The ability to interact with these people efficiently is a key component of being a doctor and I believe, is an integral part of being a doctor.

So to people like MaxPrime and Kai35 who got into medical school without the stellar undergraduate GPA, CONGRATULATIONS!!! You provide people like me with inspiration that it can happen for me too. I believe that what you didn't have in uGPA, you made up for in people skills and thats something that you can't learn in the books!!!

 

[Perrotfish]

And frankly I don't appreciate being told I'm not near the average and what I should have needed to do. Jeez.. do you not think this was all over my mind for the 9 month hell of applying to medical school? Could you try not to be so patronizing? Thanks 🙂

I wasn´t trying to be rude to you, it´s just that you´re offering your story as an example of how people should try to apply with a 33 and less than a 3.0. That´s not good advice, and it can cost people money they really don´t have. Again, I´m very happy you got in (seriously, happy) but if people follow in your footsteps I think they not only almost definitely won´t get in, but more importantly might waste the money that they would need to improve their app to the point where they have a statistically decent chance of getting in.

So, again, happy for you, congratulations, good work, good luck, still happy for you, not patronizing, had a bad GPA too (had to do an SMP), still happy, and, for everyone else, don´t expect what this poster did to work for you.

 

[Perrotfish]

Well my question rite now is, is it true that medical schools will not give u a second look despite of how well your doing now because of the fact that you flunked out before? Basically that its a dead end and I can never go to medical school in canada or the us because of it.

PM poster LizzyM for advice on your situation, she´s on a US ADCOM. No idea how that might differ from Canadian schools, though.

 

[kai35]

I wasn´t trying to be rude to you, it´s just that you´re offering your story as an example of how people should try to apply with a 33 and less than a 3.0. That´s not good advice, and it can cost people money they really don´t have. Again, I´m very happy you got in (seriously, happy) but if people follow in your footsteps I think they not only almost definitely won´t get in, but more importantly might waste the money that they would need to improve their app to the point where they have a statistically decent chance of getting in.

So, again, happy for you, congratulations, good work, good luck, still happy for you, not patronizing, had a bad GPA too (had to do an SMP), still happy, and, for everyone else, don´t expect what this poster did to work for you.

I agree.. as far as the chances of someone who had my GPA/MCAT are pretty low. BUT.. it's not bad advice to encourage someone to apply if they feel that they would make a great physician. I feel that if you have a story and you have the motivation, some schools (not all) will see beyond the numbers. If becoming a physician is truly your dream, it is never bad advice to apply to medical school.

 

[Ginsglow]

Graduated with a Bachelors of Biological Science 2.85 GPA 🙁. Trying to find Post-bacc programs but so far no luck🙁. The post-bacc that I have inquired about are for non-science majors so if any one can help..it would be appreciated. Have taken the MCATs once but did not turn out so well. Plan to re-take MCAT using examcrackers. I have been advised to re-take classes but do not know for sure whether its just the pre-req's or just upper level (hopefully find out on monday).

 

[kai35]

Graduated with a Bachelors of Biological Science 2.85 GPA 🙁. Trying to find Post-bacc programs but so far no luck🙁. The post-bacc that I have inquired about are for non-science majors so if any one can help..it would be appreciated. Have taken the MCATs once but did not turn out so well. Plan to re-take MCAT using examcrackers. I have been advised to re-take classes but do not know for sure whether its just the pre-req's or just upper level (hopefully find out on monday).

Hey there..

I would recommend taking Kaplan's MCAT course. With your GPA, to have any shot at admissions to a U.S. medical school, you'll need to have a stellar MCAT score (i.e., top 10%.. so straight 11s or better). Of course, this doesn't guarantee anything.. you'll also need to have some great ECs and LORs.

That having been said, the reason I recommend taking the classroom MCAT course is because to put up the kind of score you're going to need to draw attention away from your GPA, you'll need the kind of score that most sane people can only get with 1-on-1 contact. Private tutoring is another option if you're of greater financial means.

I know it's rough.. but don't let people here ruin your hopes. It's not all about grades. I got in to two pretty good US schools (UIC and U of MN), and I had a lower GPA than you.. and my MCAT was great but not outstanding (11/11/11). Just keep hoping and you'll make it. It's an uphill battle, but it can be done.

 

[Perrotfish]

Graduated with a Bachelors of Biological Science 2.85 GPA 🙁. Trying to find Post-bacc programs but so far no luck🙁. The post-bacc that I have inquired about are for non-science majors so if any one can help..it would be appreciated. Have taken the MCATs once but did not turn out so well. Plan to re-take MCAT using examcrackers. I have been advised to re-take classes but do not know for sure whether its just the pre-req's or just upper level (hopefully find out on monday).

First you need an MCAT, which needs to be above average. Then, you need an SMP (I think that´s what you mean by postbac). The list of SMPs is here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=489913

Do well in the SMP and you will probably strengthen your application enough to get into medical school. Unless you get a very high MCAT you will probably need to get you Ugrad GPA up to a 3.0 to even apply to the SMP.

Your other option is to retake the classes you got bad grades in and apply to DO schools, which take the higher of the two grades on their application (MD schools just average the old grade and the rate). This can be a very effective solution if you have several Fs and Ds.

I know it's rough.. but don't let people here ruin your hopes. It's not all about grades. I got in to two pretty good US schools (UIC and U of MN), and I had a lower GPA than you.. and my MCAT was great but not outstanding (11/11/11). Just keep hoping and you'll make it. It's an uphill battle, but it can be done.

Again, stop giving crappy advice. He´s go no serious statistical chance of getting in with a 2.85 and no SMP, regardless of his MCAT score. If people follow your ill informend advice they will waste time, money, and motivation that they do not have to spare. You´re particular situation is absolutely freakish, and I suspect there is something we don´t know about the story. In general, the fact the you fell off the Empire State building an lived does not mean it´s reasonable to tell other people to take the plunge.

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey there..

I would recommend taking Kaplan's MCAT course. With your GPA, to have any shot at admissions to a U.S. medical school, you'll need to have a stellar MCAT score (i.e., top 10%.. so straight 11s or better). Of course, this doesn't guarantee anything.. you'll also need to have some great ECs and LORs.

That having been said, the reason I recommend taking the classroom MCAT course is because to put up the kind of score you're going to need to draw attention away from your GPA, you'll need the kind of score that most sane people can only get with 1-on-1 contact. Private tutoring is another option if you're of greater financial means.

I know it's rough.. but don't let people here ruin your hopes. It's not all about grades. I got in to two pretty good US schools (UIC and U of MN), and I had a lower GPA than you.. and my MCAT was great but not outstanding (11/11/11). Just keep hoping and you'll make it. It's an uphill battle, but it can be done.

I agree that the poster would need a stellar MCAT score to have any chance without SMP: Stellar being 38+. I applied this round with a sub 3.0 gpa and a 36 MCAT and haven't received an acceptance (although I am on one waitlist). I'm planning on doing an SMP next year if I don't get pulled off the list.

Also, don't waste your money on an MCAT course unless you can't learn the stuff on your own. I did alright studying independently (10 hours a day/6 days a week/3 months), and hadn't taken the pre-req sciences in 4 years. Just be motivated and don't settle until you're hitting the 40s in your practice exams 😀

 

[kai35]

First you need an MCAT, which needs to be above average. Then, you need an SMP (I think that´s what you mean by postbac). The list of SMPs is here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=489913

Do well in the SMP and you will probably strengthen your application enough to get into medical school. Unless you get a very high MCAT you will probably need to get you Ugrad GPA up to a 3.0 to even apply to the SMP.

Your other option is to retake the classes you got bad grades in and apply to DO schools, which take the higher of the two grades on their application (MD schools just average the old grade and the rate). This can be a very effective solution if you have several Fs and Ds.

Again, stop giving crappy advice. He´s go no serious statistical chance of getting in with a 2.85 and no SMP, regardless of his MCAT score. If people follow your ill informend advice they will waste time, money, and motivation that they do not have to spare. You´re particular situation is absolutely freakish, and I suspect there is something we don´t know about the story. In general, the fact the you fell off the Empire State building an lived does not mean it´s reasonable to tell other people to take the plunge.

Seriously dude, can we agree to disagree? I mean, I'm trying to keep his hopes up because It CAN happen.. my advice is not ill-informed. It happened to me, and I wanted him to know that it is not impossible. Improbable, but not impossible. Lay off already. It's like you get some sick high off of tearing people down.

 

[Perrotfish]

Seriously dude, can we agree to disagree? I mean, I'm trying to keep his hopes up because It CAN happen.. my advice is not ill-informed. It happened to me, and I wanted him to know that it is not impossible. Improbable, but not impossible. Lay off already. It's like you get some sick high off of tearing people down.

You´re not getting it. This is not a personal attack. Your advice is bad. Statistically bad. If you want to see what a statistical fluke you are (assuming you´re for real) you can look at either the AMCAS statistics (again, 3.7 and a 31 is average), or just look over the entering classes of a couple of medical schools. This isn´t to say you didn´t deserve it (if you´re for real), you´ve vaguely alluded to some unbelivably horrible personal experience that you had to work through, but that doesn´t mean your advice is good. You won the lottery, so you´re telling other people that it´s a good idea to play the lottery because they CAN win the lottery (this is how they advertise the lottery, actually) even though they have no real shot. Now maybe that might not be not terrible advice if you´re rich enough that you can apply to every school without feeling the cost (and for any posters that rich, go ahead), but most people who are reapplying have limited means, and apply broadly enough to get in anywhere costs several THOUSAND dollars. That´s money that most people don´t have to waste on a one in a million shot. Also people with sub 3.0 GPAs need to do something (even with a truely stellar MCAT, let alone with a sorta average one) to get in need to focus on bring up their stats. If they follow your advice and "give it a shot", rather than realizing their situation and improving it, they could miss deadlines for SMPs while wasting their time filling out secondaries and waiting for responses, and then have to wait yet another year before they can improve their applications to the point where they actually CAN get in. I know you´re trying to help but... you´re not helping.

No we´re not going to ´agree to disagree´. If you think the Earth is flat and I think it´s round we do not have equally valid opinions.

 

[tells]

I wrote the MCAT and scored a 31.

Wait.. you wrote the MCAT and only scored a 31?

i kid.

My time to confess:
Graduated Summer of '07
Overall GPA: 2.29 (2.05 until spring semester of senior year when I got a 3.31 taking 60hrs/wk of coursework/research credit -- hey, upward trend sorta!)
MCAT Aug 2006 (didn't study, didn't care): 25O (I retook it April 19 2008 and am pretty confident I at least broke 30).

Currently working at a cancer hospital doing clinical trials research. Hope to get published wthin the next year. Probably going to take a couple of classes outside of work for the next year to boost some of the old grades that don't look so good now.

I have decent EC's but most of time in college was spent drinking and getting high. I quit getting high senior year and that really made my GPA jump (shocker). I know there are people who can get trashed and still do well, but I, however, do not fall under that category. I also took a year off after sophomore year, because I was in limbo about continuing with school. I had done so poorly, my confidence was at an all-time low and dropping out seemed like a viable option.

My only concern is getting into an SMP. I have the smarts and the drive but I'm worried that schools won't be able to look over my ridiculously low GPA. The competition is also getting tougher every year and that is also reason for concern, but that is expected. The GPA requisites for the SMPs are really limiting my choices. I, so far, only know of one (Drexel IMS) that doesn't have a GPA minimum of at >3. Anyone know of others?

 

[Perrotfish]

My only concern is getting into an SMP. I have the smarts and the drive but I'm worried that schools won't be able to look over my ridiculously low GPA. The competition is also getting tougher every year and that is also reason for concern, but that is expected. The GPA requisites for the SMPs are really limiting my choices. I, so far, only know of one (Drexel IMS) that doesn't have a GPA minimum of at >3. Anyone know of others?

Except for Loyola (minimum GPA of 3.0) and EVMS (minimum GPA 2.75) all of them have ´suggested minimum´GPAs of 3.0, rather than a requirement. However very few poeple get accepted with a 3.0 with a less than stellar MCAT, and your GPA would be exceptionally low for a matriculant to even an SMP. You probably need to bring it up before you can get in anywhere (though if you´re longer on money than time, feel free to apply for this year). For example, though Drexel IMS doesn´t have a minimum GPA, their average GPA is way over 3.0.

Did you just get a lot of Cs, or did you get a lot of Fs. If you failed courses, you could retake them, do grade replacement, and try for a DO SMP. Just a thought. I´d guess this is going to be a multi-year process for you. Good luck.

 

[Jhoa001]

Thanks for all the stories. I love reading about them. 😍Congrats to all the people who got into med school and kudos for overcoming your GPA. You are my hero. So here are my stats:

UG GPA: 2.92
BCPM GPA: 2.82
My GPA suffered due to poor heath and lack of drive. I don't have any D's or F's but I do have a handful of C's.
I plan to take the MCAT in May and am studying with EK.

I graduated summer 07' from UCR with a B.S. in Biochemistry.
As for extracurriculars, I spent two years volunteering in my local hospital. The program was great and I was allowed to rotate to different departments: ER, Oncology, Labor and Delivery...etc. I have gone to mexico a few times to volunteer with a campus organization called the Flying Samaritans. I was also a member of a handful of campus organizations.

I'm retaking some science classes at a local community college to raise my GPA. Since osteopathic schools will take the most recent re-take, I'm hoping this will help. I'm considering a SMP but I think that going to a community college to re-take all my C and B classes will be cheaper and serve to accomplish the same goal of raising my GPA. Would going through a SMP be a better option for me? I would really appreciate it if there is any advice for me. 🙂 Thanks and good luck to all!

 

[Perrotfish]

I'm retaking some science classes at a local community college to raise my GPA. Since osteopathic schools will take the most recent re-take, I'm hoping this will help. I'm considering a SMP but I think that going to a community college to re-take all my C and B classes will be cheaper and serve to accomplish the same goal of raising my GPA. Would going through a SMP be a better option for me? I would really appreciate it if there is any advice for me. 🙂 Thanks and good luck to all!

Both options will work, you can do the math on which one will get you where you want to go faster. An SMP is definitely an option, and is probably the fasted route to allopathic if you wanted that. If you´re focusing on Osteo, though, retaking classes will probably go just as fast and, as you said, be cheaper.

Advice: Focus on the MCAT. I liked TPR, but I´ve heard great things about EK as well. Also I´m not sure you should take classes you got Bs in, ask on the osteo forum about this before you do it. Definitely retake the Cs for Osteo. Shadow a DO and getter a letter of rec from him if you want a chance a getting in to the DO schools.

Also double check that they will replace a 4 year college grade with a later community college grade. Again, no idea if that´s a problem or not. any DOs with experience here?

 

[tells]

Did you just get a lot of Cs, or did you get a lot of Fs. If you failed courses, you could retake them, do grade replacement, and try for a DO SMP. Just a thought. I´d guess this is going to be a multi-year process for you. Good luck.

Lots of C's, Couple of D's and F's. -- Retook the courses I got F's in and got B's =/ I'm thinking I can re-take some courses I didn't do stellar in at CUNY-Hunter (it's close to where I work) as a non-matriculant and possibly convince the advisors there that I can hack it with the rest of the post-bacs.

I'm figuring this is going to take a while also. Hopefully, I nailed the MCAT and can convince an SMP to take me sometime in the future. Thanks for the advice.

 

[dArroway]

for people who claim it "isn't a numbers game", or whatever, have you really thought that through.

students with ~3.0 gpas obviously did not succeed in the class room as well as the ~3.7 gpa students. this could have many "reasons" yet regardless it always is either:
1) lack of ability
2) lack of effort

i cannot stand hearing "sad" stories of "why my gpa is low". i have been through A LOT during my undergraduate career (lost MULTIPLE close family members) but i NEVER lost sight. just about EVERYONE faces multiple hardships during their college years yet those with high gpas had the "whatever you want to call it" to still maintain our composure and succeed. yet you feel that it shouldn't be a numbers game? subsitute 4 years of blood, sweat, and tears for a damn essay/interview? that sounds ridiculous.

+ the numbers certainly do not support that this happens (thank goodness).

not to be harsh, but it feels almost insulting to say things such as numbers aren't important to us students who have given it our all in our universities.

 

[Doctor]

for people who claim it "isn't a numbers game", or whatever, have you really thought that through.

students with ~3.0 gpas obviously did not succeed in the class room as well as the ~3.7 gpa students. this could have many "reasons" yet regardless it always is either:
1) lack of ability
2) lack of effort

i cannot stand hearing "sad" stories of "why my gpa is low". i have been through A LOT during my undergraduate career (lost MULTIPLE close family members) but i NEVER lost sight. just about EVERYONE faces multiple hardships during their college years yet those with high gpas had the "whatever you want to call it" to still maintain our composure and succeed. yet you feel that it shouldn't be a numbers game? subsitute 4 years of blood, sweat, and tears for a damn essay/interview? that sounds ridiculous.

+ the numbers certainly do not support that this happens (thank goodness).

not to be harsh, but it feels almost insulting to say things such as numbers aren't important to us students who have given it our all in our universities.

As someone with a low GPA, I pretty much agree with what you said here. However, some people such as myself weren't pre-med in college and didn't give a rat's *** about grades because they weren't relevant to anything and didn't matter (then). If someone like me had been playing the "grade game" for med school at that time, I would have gotten straight A's no matter what as well. (And I did get nearly all A's my freshman year, then lost interest and even eventually dropped out for 5 years because the hideously slow pace of learning in college, even at a top-ranked school, was boring the hell out of me.)

So anyway, while I don't disagree that it should be a numbers game, it's good that a lot of admissions committees realize that someone like you with a 3.8 GPA doesn't necessarily have more ability or work ethic than someone like me with a 2.8 GPA... it's just that we had very different priorities in college. (I suppose it could also help that my last grade below B was more than 10 years ago, haha.)

 

[Xcited392]

for people who claim it "isn't a numbers game", or whatever, have you really thought that through.

students with ~3.0 gpas obviously did not succeed in the class room as well as the ~3.7 gpa students.

The average GPA at my school is 3.04, according to the school newspaper.

 

[neuroneato]

overall gpa: 3.2 BCPM : ? but my non-science GPA was high (3.7-3.8ish I think)

does anybody know if i can boost my gpa without doing a post-bacc? i was thinking of taking some upper level science courses at my local community college, mainly because 1) i can't afford the $400/semester fee at UCLA
2) at this time, i need to work full-time to support myself and my family.

would this be acceptable by AMCAS? or, would med-schools tend to frown upon this because the CC is not a 4-year state institution?

lastly, would it be a good idea to repeat the courses i got Cs in, or should i take the science classes that i know i'll do well in?

thank you in advance! btw, i took the MCAT on 4/19 and i am hoping to apply very early in June. I have excellent LOR and very diverse EC's, including paid clinical work after graduation (2006) 🙂

 

[Xcited392]

overall gpa: 3.2 BCPM : ? but my non-science GPA was high (3.7-3.8ish I think)

does anybody know if i can boost my gpa without doing a post-bacc? i was thinking of taking some upper level science courses at my local community college, mainly because 1) i can't afford the $400/semester fee at UCLA
2) at this time, i need to work full-time to support myself and my family.

would this be acceptable by AMCAS? or, would med-schools tend to frown upon this because the CC is not a 4-year state institution?

lastly, would it be a good idea to repeat the courses i got Cs in, or should i take the science classes that i know i'll do well in?

thank you in advance! btw, i took the MCAT on 4/19 and i am hoping to apply very early in June. I have excellent LOR and very diverse EC's, including paid clinical work after graduation (2006) 🙂

If you're planning to take classes after graduation, it's an informal post-bac. I wouldn't take courses at a CC--it's a bad idea. It's one thing to take gen ed requirements, but not for BCPM classes. Have you looked at one of the CSUs? If you got a C- (minus) or lower, maybe retake them, but definitely take classes where you can do well. It's up to you...as long as you can bump that GPA.

Good luck

 

[neuroneato]

If you're planning to take classes after graduation, it's an informal post-bac. I wouldn't take courses at a CC--it's a bad idea. It's one thing to take gen ed requirements, but not for BCPM classes. Have you looked at one of the CSUs? If you got a C- (minus) or lower, maybe retake them, but definitely take classes where you can do well. It's up to you...as long as you can bump that GPA.

Good luck

Thank you, I had a sneaky feeling that that would not be ok.

I haven't looked into the CSU's yet...but when I checked post-bacc programs on the aamc search engine thing, it only gave me UC's as a plausible choice for me.

one more question: if I've already completed all the pre-reqs, is it necessary to do a formal certificate program, or should i just do it myself?

 

[fluxcapacitor]

overall gpa: 3.2 BCPM : ? but my non-science GPA was high (3.7-3.8ish I think)

does anybody know if i can boost my gpa without doing a post-bacc? i was thinking of taking some upper level science courses at my local community college, mainly because 1) i can't afford the $400/semester fee at UCLA
2) at this time, i need to work full-time to support myself and my family.

would this be acceptable by AMCAS? or, would med-schools tend to frown upon this because the CC is not a 4-year state institution?

lastly, would it be a good idea to repeat the courses i got Cs in, or should i take the science classes that i know i'll do well in?

thank you in advance! btw, i took the MCAT on 4/19 and i am hoping to apply very early in June. I have excellent LOR and very diverse EC's, including paid clinical work after graduation (2006) 🙂

If you do well on the MCAT, you'd probably be alright just retaking courses informally. If you don't do so well, you might want to consider something more substantial, ie an SMP where you take medical school courses.

I never understand when people say they have excellent LORs. Your recommenders let you read the letters?

Good luck with your MCAT scores👍

 

[neuroneato]

If you do well on the MCAT, you'd probably be alright just retaking courses informally. If you don't do so well, you might want to consider something more substantial, ie an SMP where you take medical school courses.

I never understand when people say they have excellent LORs. Your recommenders let you read the letters?

Good luck with your MCAT scores👍

well, one professor gave me a copy and it was very nice..the others said they would write glowing ones 🙂 crossing my fingers! thanks for the advice...

i hope the MCATs are reasonable 😳

 

[evansmd911]

First and foremost my GPA is all of a 2.3 and Im in the process of retaking some classes...I realized that I am a heavy procrastinator and just all out lazy. But Im not letting my goal be deferred. Talking to my academic advisor helped me out. Im on the path to recovery...Im still fresh at this but im just hoping that this being my sophomore year I can do something to get into med school. I know i will have to do a post bac program somewhere...Good luck to all..

 

[liverotcod]

I never understand when people say they have excellent LORs. Your recommenders let you read the letters?

Two possibilities:
1) The person did not sign away their rights to read the letters.
2) Despite signing, the writer sent the person a copy anyway - by signing, you're saying you give up the *right* to see the letters (which is otherwise yours by federal law), not that you won't ever do so.

 

[elxr06]

Here is how I stand and I think you'll notice it ain't looking pretty. What would you do if you were me? I have a strong desire of getting to a medical school

I have attached in the link below (it's a word document) of my stats as my school (UC Riverside) shows.

Please help!

Thanks,
Mike
....



http://www.geocities.com/mchan_87/analysis_of_academic_progress.doc

---

I am wondering why I feel like crying? I can't just go back and worry .... I just gotta keep on moving forward and find out what's the best 2nd option ... but what is it?

 

[Perrotfish]

Here is how I stand and I think you'll notice it ain't looking pretty. What would you do if you were me? I have a strong desire of getting to a medical school

I have attached in the link below (it's a word document) of my stats as my school (UC Riverside) shows.

Please help!

Thanks,
Mike
....

Opinions

1) don´t link 10 page word documents. Just tell us your GPA, BCPM, MCAT, and number of credits completed

2) If I read that miserable document correctly, you have a 2.78 and about 120 non-AP credits. As you guessed, you´re almost definitely not getting in with those grades unless you do something else. So, your options are:

Take classes to get up to a 3.0, get a very good MCAT, do an SMP in 2009, go to med school in 2010

Retake classes (using grade replacement) to get up to a 3.4, get a very good MCAT, apply for DO schools, go to med school in 2010

Get up to a 3.0, get a very good MCAT, go to one of the big 4 carribean schools in 2009, hope to be the in the 1/3 of their class that neither fails out or fails to get a residency.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by fluxcapacitor
I never understand when people say they have excellent LORs. Your recommenders let you read the letters?

I think it´s more of a ´quality of recommender´and ´quality of relationship with recommender´ rather than the letter itself. If all three of your recs came from internationally famous professors, and they all know you very welll (multiple classes with them and you worked in their lab), then it´s probably a ´high quality´letter of rec. If, come application time, you suddenly start introducing yourself to every professor whose class you ever got an A in, probably low quality.

My system, BTW, was that I had my advisor read over the letters. I never saw them, but he gave me thumbs up or thumbs down before I submitted them.

 

[elxr06]

Opinions

1) don´t link 10 page word documents. Just tell us your GPA, BCPM, MCAT, and number of credits completed

2) If I read that miserable document correctly, you have a 2.78 and about 120 non-AP credits. As you guessed, you´re almost definitely not getting in with those grades unless you do something else. So, your options are:

Take classes to get up to a 3.0, get a very good MCAT, do an SMP in 2009, go to med school in 2010

Thank you for replying ... where and when am I supposed to be getting LOR's and what am I supposed to be doing to get into SMP's and where is the best SMP closest to the california and what else should I be doing in the meantime?!