The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

[DrMidlife]

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I'm pretty attracted to the Mt. Sinai program - just not sure if it's right for me.

I like that program too, but make sure you read their website. With a sub-3.5 undergrad GPA you don't necessarily get an interview. Also if you don't want to go MSTP, then Mt. Sinai is overkill, imho.

You should know that you're an AMCAS reapplicant now - there's no fresh start. When you're ready to apply again, assume you'll be asked why you withdrew before, what you've done to improve your app, and why the adcom should believe you'll stick with med school when your commitment isn't well documented.

Best of luck to you.

 

[macbook8]

Going into senior year at a major state university in the south. Bio major.

cGPA: 3.31
sGPA: 3.05
MCAT: in the process of prep. Practices have been solid, consistently 31+
EC: solid LORs. Clinical hours, shadowing, mission trips, honors fraternity, etc.

I really would like to go DO (personal preference) but will apply MD for sure. I am wondering if I should do SMP or post bac if I don't get any acceptances after I apply this summer? I wouldn't mind doing a DO SMP tho I know they aren't always considered SMPs in the truest sense. Would it be wise to go with the risk and cost of the SMP route? Or is there another option? Thanks!

 

[DrMidlife]

Going into senior year at a major state university in the south. Bio major.

cGPA: 3.31
sGPA: 3.05
MCAT: in the process of prep. Practices have been solid, consistently 31+
EC: solid LORs. Clinical hours, shadowing, mission trips, honors fraternity, etc.

I really would like to go DO (personal preference) but will apply MD for sure. I am wondering if I should do SMP or post bac if I don't get any acceptances after I apply this summer? I wouldn't mind doing a DO SMP tho I know they aren't always considered SMPs in the truest sense. Would it be wise to go with the risk and cost of the SMP route? Or is there another option? Thanks!

DO SMP would be a waste of money. If you want to be an MD you need an SMP, but not for DO.

If you want to go DO why even bother applying to MD schools? Also, with your stats and a 31+ MCAT you'd prob. stand a shot at a DO school easily I'm sure.

I agree with all of this except the "easily" part. DO GPA average is pretty high, and DO schools reject 55% just like MD schools. 3.05 sGPA is a red flag for MD or DO. But a solid MCAT would probably do the trick.

Best of luck to you.

 

[macbook8]

Thanks for the help all. I plan to apply early and broadly to DO schools. So to clarify, if I don't get any acceptances I should do some post bacc and not do a DO SMP like say NOVA for instance? Thanks.

 

[jslo85]

My own personal opinion but I hardly think DO SMPs are a "waste of money" if that DO school is truly the one you wish to attend. What I believe Midlife and Guju are trying to point out is that your GPA is the issue and not the MCAT and if you could raise it to a 3.3 or so, you would be able to enter through traditional admissions pathways rather than through a backroute through an SMP which is generally considered to be a large sum of money.

Nova MBS like you pointed out has several other advantages rather than simply being a "SMP" which may or may not attract you. You take classes with the MS1s and MS2s and any course that you pass with a 90% or above, you do not need to repeat when you enter their professional school the following year. Think of it more or less like how ACP uses their successful students to TA for their classmates the next year, same deal with Nova with the TAing situation.

Now is it more money than if you wanted to do a regular informal post-bacc? Definitely, Ft. Lauderdale is expensive and Nova tuition is expensive as well. But then again you can look at KCOM's MBS which subidizes your tuition through their "work-study" program that is literally you doing your mandatory lab work under a faculty member as part of your thesis requirement where you will only owe 800 or so dollars for tuition alone for 2 years. Yes I am serious. You will not need to repeat any course that you pass over 90% and it will count toward your credit hours if you choose to matriculate after 2 years but you will need to be there for 2.

But no, not all DO "SMPs" are the same, most are school specific. Just depends what is most important for you and whether that school is truly the one that you wish to attend.

 

[AntonFreeman]

i just have a general question regarding smp programs. how strict are they with their gpa requirements? I am planning on applying next December (2011), and I will probably have GPA close to 3.0 and could probably get to 3.0 with an extra semester worth of classes after (by end of May 2012). Are most programs dead set on having 3.0 when applications are submitted?

 

[Dazzling]

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[Dazzling]

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[omogedoctor]

I'm a bit confused on gpas. What is considered part of the science gpa? Is it only pre-med prerequisite courses? Also, do 3-cr science courses count as well? What does BCPM stand for?

I just recently made the decision to pursue med school so I'm a bit of a novice here. I just want to make sure I'm calculating my gpa correctly.

 

[omogedoctor]

Yes.

BCPM stands for biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics.

so any course you give these designations to and that the verifiers of amcas verify these to be within these 4 categories will be counted as BCPM

One tip, if you have a science class that can boost your BCPM GPA some like pharmacology that some would consider a health science for being taught on the med campus, don't count it as health science because it won't get counted in BCPM on amcas

but if you count it as biology it will.

That happened last time. My BCPM was raised when I counted a few classes like clinical correlations in medicine and pharmacology as biology rather then health science.

Thank you!

 

[omogedoctor]

I graduated undergrad in 2007 with a liberal arts degree. After observation at various rehabs I recently decided to pursue medicine to specialize in Phyiscal Medicine and Rehabilitation.

Undergrad gpa: 2.82
Current cummulative gpa: 2.87 (from taking Biology I, and Physics I)
BCPM gpa: 2.55 (this is mostly from science general education courses I took undergrad)

I have a long way to go with my pre-reqs so I'm confident by BCPM will go up substantially. From the little research I've been doing, I realize that realistically I can't apply for DO school for at least 3-4 years. My plan is to complete my pre-requisites and do a specialty masters. I don't want to apply for the SM until my cgpa is at least 3.0.

My parents have said they'd be more than willing to pay for a MCAT prep course. I know that even if I raise my gpa, I will certainly need high scores on the exam. I'll also be reaching out to DOs specifically practicing PM&R in the area to observe. I have over 200 hours of observation so far in rehab facitilites. I'll also be spending the upcoming week visiting schools with post-bacc programs to see my chances of getting in and to make sure the specialty masters is the best route for me.

I'd appreciate any advice regarding the following:

-is my timeline feasible?
-is there any other experience I should seek that would make me more competitive?
-any other relevant advice

FYI, I love this forum. It shows me my aspirations aren't completely hopeless, and gives me constructive advice to aggressively pursue med school admission. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[jslo85]

Well two things that I felt was rather important. One is a question of whether you are truly intent on going DO. Two, if so, then I don't think you need 3-4 years if you have only taken 2 pre-requisite courses but i guess I could be wrong.

 

[gabbieR6]

I need some advice. I am about to start my second semester of sophomore year at a public university that is known for its sciences. First semester I got a 3.2 the next 2 semesters I got 2.2. My GPA because of the last two semesters is a 2.858 and my science GPA is a 2.2

I need to know if it is possible to raise my GPA in 3 semesters. I have taken about 48 credits and will be taking a bit more than that in the next 3 semesters. It seems as though medical schools really only look at your GPA through your junior year so thats why I am in a hurry to boost it. Obviously I haven't taken my MCAT yet and I have not completed organic chemistry physics yet. I have no dropped or withdrawn classes and my GPA is low because of C's. I have never recieved D's or F's.

I want to apply to Howard medical school and they require a 24 MCAT (I think I can do that) and atleast a 3.0 science GPA. So what are my chances at improvement and what grades do I need to start getting? Thanks in advance!

 

[DrMidlife]

So what are my chances at improvement

That's 100% up to you. How hard do you want to work?

and what grades do I need to start getting?

A's.

It seems as though medical schools really only look at your GPA through your junior year so thats why I am in a hurry to boost it.

Med schools look at your app when you apply. Students who are ready to apply at the end of their junior year don't have senior year grades yet. You won't be ready to apply at the end of your junior year. You might not be ready to apply at the end of 4 years - you might need more time.

I want to apply to Howard medical school and they require a 24 MCAT (I think I can do that) and atleast a 3.0 science GPA.

1. With a low GPA, you have to apply broadly. You can't just target one med school. You'll probably have to apply to 25, and you'll probably need to pursue DO.
2. People who get into Howard (or any med school) with a 3.0 have high MCAT scores, 30+. People who get in with a 24 MCAT have high GPAs, over 3.7+. You should not aim for the minimum and expect to get in.
3. The reason GPA and MCAT scores are supposed to be high to get into med school is because the coursework in med school is very, very difficult, and there's a very, very large amount of it. Take the hardest semester you've had, double it, and make it all hard science. That's the first 2 years of med school. And the amount you have to learn doesn't slow down, ever, after that.

So let's do the math. You've done 3 semesters, you have a cumulative 2.6 and science 2.2. I can't help you figure out what your science GPA can improve to by graduation - I have no idea how much more you'll be taking. But in 5 more semesters, you can get your cumulative up over 3.0 if you start getting great grades.
If you get a 4.0 from now on, you can graduate with a cumulative 3.6
With 3.5 work from now on, you can get to 3.2
With 3.0 work from now on, you can get to 2.88.

What I would do if I were in your shoes is either start getting straight A's or drop out. By dropping out, you allow the future chance that you can try again when you're older. By continuing to get low grades, you ruin your chances permanently.

Best of luck to you.

 

[cellochic]

After reviewing this thread and others, I'm planning to do a 5th year "homemade" post-bacc program to bump up my GPA.

I just had a few questions that need to be clarified....

I understand SMPs are a last resort if a 5th year/post bacc won't help you and that you'd apply the summer right before you start the post bacc, and keep your schools informed about your grades. No gap year.

If you take a 5th year would you still have to take a gap year after your 5th year to apply to med school? I'm asking because if in 4th year your GPA isn't quite there yet (but it will be at the end of 5th year), it doesn't make sense to apply, right? Is there any way to avoid that gap year?

 

[ChiSox]

Hi Everyone,
I'm trying to decided on what to do next year and was hoping y'all could point me in the right direction..

My background:
-I'm graduating Aug of 2011 w/ a B.S. in Exercise Phys. Minors in Chem/Bio. My cum will be a 3.1 and science gpa around 2.71 (terrible, I know). I have an upward trend in my last couple of semesters, believe it or not.
- Took MCAT last summer and got a 22N (currently studying to take it again).
-research assistant in a lab specializing in diabetes at my school for one year
- Vice President of the Pre-med Fraternity
- Volunteer work: ER at the Cleveland Clinic, Served food at homeless shelters and I have set up fundraisers, food drives etc. for my fraternity.
-Club Soccer

Would anyone else happen to know any programs that would suit my predicament be it an SMP or post-bacc or any other POA's that might be useful? What do you guys think?

Thanks!

 

[DrMidlife]

I understand SMPs are a last resort if a 5th year/post bacc won't help you and that you'd apply the summer right before you start the post bacc, and keep your schools informed about your grades. No gap year.

Not necessarily. In a bunch of cases, you need a gap year after an SMP. Such as if you want to get into a U of California med school. Such as if you're at a program like Gtown/Boston/Tufts/Drexel that puts very few of its SMP students into the host med school. Such as if your stats before the SMP are too far below average to get you an interview. And such as if you don't do stellar work in the SMP.

In general, if you have average-ish stats and you do an SMP because you didn't get in anywhere, then a same-year-as-SMP MD app is a good bet. If your stats aren't good enough to get you accepted without the SMP, and the SMP host school doesn't reserve you a seat, then applying doesn't do you any good before you have SMP results.

If you take a 5th year would you still have to take a gap year after your 5th year to apply to med school? I'm asking because if in 4th year your GPA isn't quite there yet (but it will be at the end of 5th year), it doesn't make sense to apply, right? Is there any way to avoid that gap year?

You shouldn't apply to med school until you have the assets to get accepted. If you need to finish a 5th year to get those assets, then you can't apply until the end of that 5th year.

You should also understand that 55% of applicants get rejected every year. So you don't want to expend energy avoiding a gap year that could be put towards maximizing your chances of acceptance. Such as working really hard to squeeze some more MCAT points out of a retake.

Best of luck to you.

 

[cellochic]

Thanks a bunch Drmidlife. That makes everything much clearer. 🙂

 

[nema25]

Hello,
I graduated with a cum 3.265 GPA and I think a 2.96 BCMP pre-med BA in Zoology. I have a lot of hospital work experience. I have not taken the MCAT but was wondering if it is even worth trying to get into medical school with that GPA. I am wondering if I should take the GRE instead to get a masters or try to get into pa school instead. Advice would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

 

[gujuDoc]

Hello,
I graduated with a cum 3.265 GPA and I think a 2.96 BCMP pre-med BA in Zoology. I have a lot of hospital work experience. I have not taken the MCAT but was wondering if it is even worth trying to get into medical school with that GPA. I am wondering if I should take the GRE instead to get a masters or try to get into pa school instead. Advice would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

Read the first page of this thread if you want to know what dire straits is. you are HARDLY that at all. You have a decent overall. Just .04 from a 3.0 BCPM. With a postbac or SMP you should be fine if you do well on the MCAT.

A lot depends on your MCAT score. 32+ you will still stand a shot at some school if you do well in a SMP or Postbac year and have teh extracurriculars and other stuff needed for med admissions straight and apply broadly.

 

[jdub45]

Hey everyone,

I just found this site. I have read through this forum and got a lot of good info, a lot of stuff I didn't know about before. However, I was wondering what you all think I should do? My stats are:

-3.35 gpa in both cumulative and science.
-33 mcat with even distribution of 11.
-Two years of research experience and the usual volunteer work at a hospital.

Should I even try to apply this June? I know of some of these programs with linkages like RFU and Tulane. Am I even competitive for those? Also, I wish I could say my gpa started from a terrible first two years with a great last two, but sadly that isnt the case. I have had a pretty consistent 3.4-3.3 per quarter, with no significant upward trend. I feel stuck.

 

[Mcs0503]

When listing my stats on here for advice are they to be taken from my transcript or the AMCAS gpa calculator?

Taken off my transcript I have a 2.87 gpa. My AMCAS is lower at a 2.5. What should I do? Which should I refer to? I plan on taking classes and I am able to do so without paying tuition. But with the 2.87 it is a matter of taking about 7-10 classes or triple that at a 2.5. Also I am a URM and have an MS in cell bio at a 3.27 gpa.

I am confused and need help!

Thanks!

 

[deleted248403]

AMCAS GPA calculator should always be used when talking about one's stats

With a 2.5 cGPA, i'd start looking to other career fields or start looking at the Carib or DO. Being a URM and having an MS helps you, but still you a looong way from being competitive for a US MD school.

 

[Mcs0503]

AMCAS GPA calculator should always be used when talking about one's stats

With a 2.5 cGPA, i'd start looking to other career fields or start looking at the Carib or DO. Being a URM and having an MS helps you, but still you a looong way from being competitive for a US MD school.

Will my masters help me in getting into an SMP??? Or is it all on the undergraduate scores?

 

[Mcs0503]

Had you gotten a 3.8 or higher yes it would've helped. But you didn't even do that well in the overall in your MS. However, being URM you may or may not qualify for minority SMPs like GEMS, WakeForest Postbac, DPMS at Drexel. I don't know that you'd get in a normal SMP though and I'd not bank on it.

I also don't think that even if you got into an SMP and did well you'd be able to get in this round so it is better to do postbac courses and do 4.0 in such and then consider doing SMP.

If they ask why you did ugrad again after doing an MS say you had contemplated research but then realized medicine was your goal and had decided to meet such goals raising the ugrad GPA was the best route to go despite having a MS.

Yes I have been eyeing the Wake Forest one but it is a long way from Mich! 😀

 

[DrMidlife]

Will my masters help me in getting into an SMP??? Or is it all on the undergraduate scores?

Let me encourage you to step away from getting in and move toward preparing to succeed.

From a 2.5, I agree with robflanker that it would be best if you walked away. This is not about criticizing you: it's about wanting your life to not suck.

If you choose to try to recover from a 2.5 and get into med school, then you almost have to start over. I agree with guju that you need to do more undergrad, and you need to get a whole bunch of A's, before you have credibility as a med school candidate.

Getting into an SMP or med school would be the worst thing that ever happened to you if you're not ready to succeed.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Hey everyone,

I just found this site. I have read through this forum and got a lot of good info, a lot of stuff I didn't know about before. However, I was wondering what you all think I should do? My stats are:

-3.35 gpa in both cumulative and science.
-33 mcat with even distribution of 11.
-Two years of research experience and the usual volunteer work at a hospital.

Should I even try to apply this June? I know of some of these programs with linkages like RFU and Tulane. Am I even competitive for those? Also, I wish I could say my gpa started from a terrible first two years with a great last two, but sadly that isnt the case. I have had a pretty consistent 3.4-3.3 per quarter, with no significant upward trend. I feel stuck.

I think you should do an SMP before you apply to med school.

The Tulane SMP that has linkage is only open to those who have been waitlisted at a med school. RFU, EVMS, Cincinnati and Temple have strong linkage.

January is a great time to get SMP apps done.

Best of luck to you.

 

[EWO]

1

 

[deleted248403]

You don't need to post the same post in two different threads - it leads to confusing conversations as ppl respond in 2 diff places. i posted a response in your other thread

 

[EWO]

1

 

[Dharma]

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[jslo85]

Mmm not sure what you're asking but that is quite the journey.

If you're interested in applying DO (as it seems) and will be applying early next cycle, good luck. If you apply early/broadly enough, it seems likely that you will receive a few positive responses but I would also consider a DO SMP if you're intent on attending a certain school. Most are high linkage and will not require the glide year and have a high preference towards their own students.

Again, best of luck.

 

[Dharma]

Mmm not sure what you're asking but that is quite the journey.

If you're interested in applying DO (as it seems) and will be applying early next cycle, good luck. If you apply early/broadly enough, it seems likely that you will receive a few positive responses but I would also consider a DO SMP if you're intent on attending a certain school. Most are high linkage and will not require the glide year and have a high preference towards their own students.

Again, best of luck.

Yeah, I guess I didn't really ask any particular questions. Sorry about that. I was just wondering if my plan sounds feasible. I know I have a bit to prove during this semester and those that will follow. I am interested in D.O. schools, no doubt, but of course I would go M.D. if a given a shot as well (would depend on my options of course). Will my "comeback" plan differ significantly according whether I am aiming for M.D. or D.O.?

 

[jslo85]

It does, mainly around your MCAT. Take for instance, LECOM's current average stats for those accepted is a 27 MCAT and a 3.4 GPA. Your MCAT is on the low end of the applicant scale and your GPA is on the lower end as well for the mid tier osteopathic schools leaving your chances to be rather up in the air. You can augment that by applying early and to lower end osteopathic schools that accept applicants with less competitive stats but again, that is whether you wish to attend those schools and whether you fit their applicant profile. For example, PCSOM takes in students with a lower GPA and MCAT as does WVSOM than say NSU, but they usually aim for students that are either from the area or are highly interested in rural medicine/primary care. If you have facets in your application like strong LORs, publications, and unique clinical opportunities then you stand a better chance.

I'm purely speaking from looking at your MCAT score and your GPA in saying you're not a very competitive applicant on a broad scale. I was trying to suggest a DO SMP which normally links a substantial percentage of students back into their next medical school class if you are intent on staying at that school.

If you wanted MD, you would need to retake your MCAT. 4-5 more points would probably allow you to enter RFU MBS and have a resonable shot at CMS. If you wanted a competitive allopathic SMP, then you'd be looking at having a 29-30+ MCAT with your GPA. Again, I'm speaking broadly in stating these numbers but I usually like to err more on the side of caution so the numbers may not be exact.

Take home message: you will need to retake the MCAT for a substantially higher score if you want to go MD as opposed to osteopathic which you could see success through a graduate program at a host DO school. Your application is not a true underdog status for osteopathic application imo, but you're going to need some luck as well. If you're applying next cycle, I personally would advise you to look at an osteopathic program if you do not want to retake the MCAT and are open to DO, to cover all bases.

 

[deleted248403]

Dharma - i think one problem you will have to overcome is 'why medicine' because you have jumped around so much, never staying on something for more than 18mo-2yrs (i think, i might be wrong) that someone will say "you've never truly shown an interest, you've done lots of other things, but how do i know you wont get bored of medical school and drop out after 2 years?"

Its certainly something to think about, and even more reason to rock the MCAT and get new, fresh, great ECs - low GPA, low MCAT, and unclear interest in medicine will be all huge red flags in your app

 

[Dharma]

Dharma - i think one problem you will have to overcome is 'why medicine' because you have jumped around so much, never staying on something for more than 18mo-2yrs (i think, i might be wrong) that someone will say "you've never truly shown an interest, you've done lots of other things, but how do i know you wont get bored of medical school and drop out after 2 years?"

Its certainly something to think about, and even more reason to rock the MCAT and get new, fresh, great ECs - low GPA, low MCAT, and unclear interest in medicine will be all huge red flags in your app

I was thinking the same. Do you think going to school to full time and doing well in upper level science classes will help show commitment? And what kind of ECs? Does it matter?

One more thing... I've been struggling a bit on the TBR CBTs (30, 26, 25 so far) and I'm retaking in a few weeks. I know that the AAMC practice tests are the best gauge on scores, but I only have 3 left (used the others up during the last go). I'm wondering if I should hold off on taking the MCAT until the summer or take one of the 3 AAMCs to get an idea where I stand.

Thanks for your comments Flanker and jslo85. I really appreciate it.

 

[deleted248403]

Dharma - I don't think one year is going to cut to be honest. You've shown you can u can do something for like 18 months but not much more then that.

I found for my MCAT, if I average all my tests together (both kaplan and AAMC; but minus the diagnostic obv) that my real MCAT score was within one point of my actual game day score. I took it twice and it held up both times. The first time I had a low score, and I got a low MCAT. The 2nd time, a higher score, and thankfully a better MCAT. Definitely not a good mindset to have is "i've been scoring 25, but ill get 33 on game day" (not saying you do).

 

[Dharma]

Dharma - I don't think one year is going to cut to be honest. You've shown you can u can do something for like 18 months but not much more then that.

I found for my MCAT, if I average all my tests together (both kaplan and AAMC; but minus the diagnostic obv) that my real MCAT score was within one point of my actual game day score. I took it twice and it held up both times. The first time I had a low score, and I got a low MCAT. The 2nd time, a higher score, and thankfully a better MCAT. Definitely not a good mindset to have is "i've been scoring 25, but ill get 33 on game day" (not saying you do).

I hear that. All of it. I just took AAMC 9 and only pulled a 28 (10 8 10). I think I'm going to have to hold off, which means waiting until the summer because I will have to focus purely on academics during this semester.

As far as school goes, it may be a year at the local university and then another in some type of SMP (or pseudo SMP program) and of course with solid grades. BTW flank, congrats on those acceptances (checked out your MDapp profile). NIce job brother!

 

[deleted248403]

Thanks dharma

During your next yr or two before applying, id go back to medical work/volunteering and see if you can get involved in some new things (big brother/sister or clinical research maybe)

 

[Dharma]

Postponed the MCAT. I need to crack 30 and only sometimes hitting 30 on these practice tests just isn't gonna cut it. Anyhow, I'm in the process of setting up some volunteering and clinical shadowing opportunities. Do you have any recommendations in terms of finding research opportunities? I'm hoping that offer such through CUNY. Besides school I haven't the foggiest of where to look.

 

[Bernoull]

I see a lot of premeds getting giddy about SMPs, IMO postbacs are almost always better! SMP is a very risky do-or-die proposition, u must shine/excel while competing with M1s (usually).

In any M1 class, half of the student will end in the da bottom half (by definition) and if these med students were SMP students many may very well not get accepted. The competition is very stiff in med sch and everyone is very bright etc etc, so as a prospective SMP student, u can't take it for granted that u'll outshine/get honors etc bcos u don't know where u will end up in the distribution. Also honors is usually limited to 30% of the students.

I always suggest ugrad postbac over SMP for those seeking grade remediation. U're much more like to ace the course since the competition is less, the odds are just more favorable. Think carefully about what remediation program u choose...

Gdluck

 

[PatrickFutureMD]

I've seen some great advice given on this board and am hoping to get some of my own. I have an idea of what I should do (based on reading other posts), but I want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

-BA in Psychology and English from 4-year univ with cGPA 3.39, sGPA 2.57 (but I only took 2 sci classes in ugrad - neither is a prereq)
-24 years old
-MA resident
-few hours (~8) of shadowing

I'm thinking that HES postbac is a good first step for me since I've taken none of the prereqs. I'm hoping to take some additional classes there for gpa repair. Assuming I start as HES in fall 2011, I'd be taking the MCAT in 2013, I think.

I don't have any volunteer experience in a medical-related field, so that is something that I'll need to work on. I have some more hours of shadowing lined up already.

No research experience - how crucial is this?

Is there anything that I've overlooked? Does this seem like the best path?

 

[common man]

I've seen some great advice given on this board and am hoping to get some of my own. I have an idea of what I should do (based on reading other posts), but I want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

-BA in Psychology and English from 4-year univ with cGPA 3.39, sGPA 2.57 (but I only took 2 sci classes in ugrad - neither is a prereq)
-24 years old
-MA resident
-few hours (~8) of shadowing

I'm thinking that HES postbac is a good first step for me since I've taken none of the prereqs. I'm hoping to take some additional classes there for gpa repair. Assuming I start as HES in fall 2011, I'd be taking the MCAT in 2013, I think.

I don't have any volunteer experience in a medical-related field, so that is something that I'll need to work on. I have some more hours of shadowing lined up already.

No research experience - how crucial is this?

Is there anything that I've overlooked? Does this seem like the best path?

the great news is that you've taken very few BCPM courses so raising that GPA will be a lot faster (provided you get A-/A). in your case, its' better to take fewer classes but spend more time on them and go for the A-/A. contrast this to someone who majored in neuroscience and has 80 credits of BCPM - they have to take A LOT of courses and do well. so good job on picking your major!

take fewer courses (=less money spent) but spend time and do well on them. harvard extension courses are very challenging. you should even consider "baby stepping" at first i.e. take general biology and general chemistry first, get the As, and then take more classes. better to do that then to register for 4 pre-reqs to "finish quickly" and then if the semester isn't going the way you expected its too late. cheaper & less stressful & safer to start slow but do well.

the other good news is that your 3.4 GPA isn't too shabby. hopefully with As in your 32 credits of pre-reqs - your cGPA will go up to a 3.5+.

research is nice but not absolutely needed (unless you're going for a top 20 med school). right now, it's better for you to focus on the grades, mcat, and clinical experience anyway. if you can get a research assistant job in boston that would be a great way to pay for your courses (tuition remission?).

since right now you are not studying for the mcat or maybe choose to take only a limited number of pre-reqs, you should do volunteering, clinical experiences, shadowing, get the recommendation letters written and stored or at least maintain contact for future. better to do this now then next year when you'll have mcat or higher courses or need to meet early applicaton deadlines.

have you considered the hes pre health program? they have a committee.

 

[soundnin]

i never noticed this thread before, but man do i belong here!

undergrad AMCAS GPA = 3.29
undergrad AMCAS BCPM GPA = 3.20

+ post bac overall (just orgo 1&2 at HES) = 3.33
+ post bac BCPM = 3.31

MCAT = 33Q

EC:
1. many years of research. 10 publications (2 first authors) with a few in journals like Nature, Cell, and/or their sister journals.
2. just started volunteering at MGH last month (3h/week), so if i apply this cycle, i will have about 75h under my belt around June.
3. so far only 10h of shadowing under one MD. always looking for more.

ONLY APPLYING MD/PhD

i didn't decide on going MD/PhD until 2 years after graduating (but had been thinking about going PhD since undergrad), so my GPA and EC are lacking for med school, but i'm hoping to fill the EC gaps in the next half a year or so. however, my GPA is still low.

i am planning to apply to about 12-15 programs this coming cycle (2011 for 2012 matriculation), and as a backup, to apply to SMP's if i don't get any interview invites. thoughts?

 

[DrMidlife]

I have yet to see a story on SDN about a GPA comeback into an MSTP scholarship. The advice you get here may not be all that useful. If you find that a 3.3/33 is sufficient to go MSTP (with all those pubs), please do come back and let us know.

That said, since you asked, I think your GPA is too low to apply MD much less MSTP. As happened with me, your postbac GPA was more of the same, instead of the clear demonstration that once you put your mind to med school your performance became stellar. So you can publish, nobody is going to argue with that, but the bar for med school is that you can keep up under a years-long crushing load of academics and then reliably pass boards. I'm not saying this stuff to be mean, but to let you in on where you can expect to get grilled when/if you get interviews.

What I'm not at all sure about is whether a standard SMP is going to do anything for you in MSTP decisions. Can you try to find out whether Tufts, Mt. Sinai, Cincinnati et al have ever put an SMP grad into their own MSTP programs? These are the only MD schools that offer MSTP, that also host academic enhancer programs.

Best of luck to you.

 

[common man]

1. many years of research. 10 publications (2 first authors) with a few in journals like Nature, Cell, and/or their sister journals.

for md phd...this is by far the most important part of your application. your gpa & mcat are OK and won't stop a committee from looking into the most important part - your research.

2 first author publications is DAMN impressive. the fact that you have been associated with projects that published in nature & cell means you'll have a lot of interesting things to say in your essays and interviews.

you should spend most of your time preparing to talk extensively and answer tough, critical thinking questions about your research. you'll be asked about collaborating with neighbors in your lab i.e. taking advantage of the people around you. prepare all your principle investigators to write strong letters in your support. i'd even encourage you to try to network. a letter from your PI to someone at an MSTP program who knows him (or is interested in your kind of research) is going to have strong "intangible" effect.

i remember reading about weill cornell....they outright say...they've taken someone with a 3.01 - now you can say that's a rare exception...but their point of mentioning that was...the most important factor by far is research research research! an equally important factor is for you to talk to people...at mstp programs....professors...directors at programs of interest....i think it is perfectly appropriate for you to talk to them. remember, mstp programs may have only few spots - but they also have only few applicants (200-500?). it's important to talk to them because that'll give you an idea of what questions / what they are looking - this varies from program to program and mstp is very different from MD.

2 most important things: research & talking to people at programs.

 

[DrMidlife]

Hm. Had no idea MD/PhD even happened outside MSTP. Learn something new everyday. So let's see then.

The MSTP program is described here and it says there are currently 933 MSTP students at 45 different MD schools. So maybe 50-100 per year?

Per the 2011 MSAR, there were 602 MD/PhD students in the 2009 entering class. 115 MD schools say they offer an MD/PhD program, 89 schools say they actually had MD/PhD students.

I expect they have one thing in common: a free ride. (And if not, holy cow I hope med school debt can be deferred during the PhD years.) I expect what I said about MSTP competitiveness above holds true for non-MSTP. For further discussion, I'll refer soundnin to the physician scientist forum.

 

[soundnin]

As happened with me, your postbac GPA was more of the same, instead of the clear demonstration that once you put your mind to med school your performance became stellar.

maybe i wasn't clear, but i took orgo 1 and 2 postbacc and got two A's (4.0). the GPA listed is the running overall GPA. i am registered to take two more courses this spring semester (both social science courses to fulfill an additional requirement from the UI system), so my sGPA won't change, but the cGPA should go up a little more (assuming 2 A's, +0.04, so 3.37).

2 most important things: research & talking to people at programs.

i will start reaching out to people involved in programs i am interested in. thanks for that advice.

For further discussion, I'll refer soundnin to the physician scientist forum.

not a very useful forum for me, as everyone there is the ideal MD/PhD candidate stats wise lol.

I have yet to see a story on SDN about a GPA comeback into an MSTP scholarship. The advice you get here may not be all that useful. If you find that a 3.3/33 is sufficient to go MSTP (with all those pubs), please do come back and let us know.

Best of luck to you.

thanks, if some miracle happens, of course i would report it to the SDN community. i am hoping my pubs will get me noticed by adcoms.

 

[PatrickFutureMD]

Thanks for the response. I am going to try for HES's health careers program to get the committee letter/sponsorship. I think I'll have to get 30 or above on the MCAT to get sponsorship - but I'm going to aim for that anyway!

the great news is that you've taken very few BCPM courses so raising that GPA will be a lot faster (provided you get A-/A). in your case, its' better to take fewer classes but spend more time on them and go for the A-/A. contrast this to someone who majored in neuroscience and has 80 credits of BCPM - they have to take A LOT of courses and do well. so good job on picking your major!

take fewer courses (=less money spent) but spend time and do well on them. harvard extension courses are very challenging. you should even consider "baby stepping" at first i.e. take general biology and general chemistry first, get the As, and then take more classes. better to do that then to register for 4 pre-reqs to "finish quickly" and then if the semester isn't going the way you expected its too late. cheaper & less stressful & safer to start slow but do well.

the other good news is that your 3.4 GPA isn't too shabby. hopefully with As in your 32 credits of pre-reqs - your cGPA will go up to a 3.5+.

research is nice but not absolutely needed (unless you're going for a top 20 med school). right now, it's better for you to focus on the grades, mcat, and clinical experience anyway. if you can get a research assistant job in boston that would be a great way to pay for your courses (tuition remission?).

since right now you are not studying for the mcat or maybe choose to take only a limited number of pre-reqs, you should do volunteering, clinical experiences, shadowing, get the recommendation letters written and stored or at least maintain contact for future. better to do this now then next year when you'll have mcat or higher courses or need to meet early applicaton deadlines.

have you considered the hes pre health program? they have a committee.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I have yet to see a story on SDN about a GPA comeback into an MSTP scholarship. The advice you get here may not be all that useful. If you find that a 3.3/33 is sufficient to go MSTP (with all those pubs), please do come back and let us know.

That said, since you asked, I think your GPA is too low to apply MD much less MSTP. As happened with me, your postbac GPA was more of the same, instead of the clear demonstration that once you put your mind to med school your performance became stellar. So you can publish, nobody is going to argue with that, but the bar for med school is that you can keep up under a years-long crushing load of academics and then reliably pass boards. I'm not saying this stuff to be mean, but to let you in on where you can expect to get grilled when/if you get interviews.

What I'm not at all sure about is whether a standard SMP is going to do anything for you in MSTP decisions. Can you try to find out whether Tufts, Mt. Sinai, Cincinnati et al have ever put an SMP grad into their own MSTP programs? These are the only MD schools that offer MSTP, that also host academic enhancer programs.

Best of luck to you.

technically not MSTP, but fully funded MD-PhD