The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

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Thank you so much! I still don't have a straight answer, though.
Would they calculate a new GPA with ALL the credits I've taken after high school??? That's a lot of credits after I finish all the pre-reqs! WOW~
And considering how many credits I've already taken, I don't think it would get me to that GPA either!
I'm so confused. Do I have any other options? How do I contact those people you mentioned?:idea:
 
Thank you so much! I still don't have a straight answer, though.
Would they calculate a new GPA with ALL the credits I've taken after high school??? That's a lot of credits after I finish all the pre-reqs! WOW~
And considering how many credits I've already taken, I don't think it would get me to that GPA either!
I'm so confused. Do I have any other options? How do I contact those people you mentioned?

Hi, I lurk here a lot and this is what I've gathered from reading the postbac forum
1. Sub 3.0 GPA: take undergrad preqs and/or upper division science courses to bring up your cumulative and science gpas as high as possible. Yes, MD programs count every college course you've ever taken. DO schools replace bad grades with your retakes.
2. Take the MCAT do well.
3. Apply to Special Master's Programs i.e. Georgetown, Cincinnati
4. Apply to Med School
a. get in, yay
b. don't get in, research/volunteer then reapply.

"Those people" are other members. Search the forum for them. 👍
 
OK....the picture is getting a bit more clear!
Thanks a lot! 😳
 
Hey... Does anyone know...
If your GPA is low as an undergrad, and you, by some miracle of GOD, get accepted into a SMP and get awesome grades in it, will MD schools give you credit for that, and be more forgiving in terms of your undergrad GPA??
 
Hey... Does anyone know...
If your GPA is low as an undergrad, and you, by some miracle of GOD, get accepted into a SMP and get awesome grades in it, will MD schools give you credit for that, and be more forgiving in terms of your undergrad GPA??

Again, depends on the school. As noted above, SMPs are in fact graduate level coursework. Or at least they are included in your grad GPA. Therefore it is up to the adcoms to decide if your work is sufficient to make up for a 2.2 undergrad GPA.

Lets look at it this way. I had a 2.65 GPA out of undergrad. I did post-bacc to boost it up. Cost too much, so I was admitted by special exception into a PhD program at our med school. I to this day STILL take undergrad classes to boost that undergrad GPA. My graduate GPA is a 4.0 and my post-bacc GPA is like a 3.87 now. For me at least, the fact that when I apply, I will have 4-5 years of 4.0 coursework which includes undergrad classes and med school classes, it overshadows my past experiences. Coupled to a good MCAT score (36), I should be in a better position to make a case in 2008 about my 2.65 GPA from 2002.

Doing well certainly helps, but (1) you need to get into an SMP, and (2) you need to make sure you DO WELL. I don't know under what kind of conditions you are taking your non-degree earning classes in. However they should be as a full-time student, and should be upper division science classes. A 4.0 from 1-2 classes isn't as impressive as a 4.0 in 3-5 classes. There are clearly many factors, so you really have to considier what you're going to do, not to mention gauge the situation after taking the MCAT too.
 
Hey... Does anyone know...
If your GPA is low as an undergrad, and you, by some miracle of GOD, get accepted into a SMP and get awesome grades in it, will MD schools give you credit for that, and be more forgiving in terms of your undergrad GPA??

I have a sub 3.0 gpa and I'm doing a postbac right now to get it up as high as possible before I take the MCAT and apply to an SMP. There are no miracles, just numbers. 👍
 
Question...
I was reading up on SMP's in my area, and I noticed that while enrolled, one takes classes parallel to Medical Student in their first year.
What happens at the time of entering actual medical school? Do you take those courses over, or would you go in as a MS2?

PS> Thanks for all the advice... you guys are awesome! I am so glad I joined this network. 😀
If I start getting annoying, please let me know. I'll stop asking questions. :laugh:
 
Question...
I was reading up on SMP's in my area, and I noticed that while enrolled, one takes classes parallel to Medical Student in their first year.
What happens at the time of entering actual medical school? Do you take those courses over, or would you go in as a MS2?

PS> Thanks for all the advice... you guys are awesome! I am so glad I joined this network. 😀
If I start getting annoying, please let me know. I'll stop asking questions. :laugh:

Do a forum search for that one. There was a question like that 24hrs ago. In short though, you will never go in as an MS2. Rarely do schools even allow you to waive med school level coursework and certainly not the entire year. The reason being you still have to take Doctoring, and first year clinical work. Some schools have a PBL format too, so the format is totally different and may be incompatible with traditional med school courses.

Case in point, I have taken most of the core 2nd year med school classes here at UC Davis (gen path, sys path, pharm). If I got accepted into OUR med school, I'd still have to take these class again, and at best, I would TA them. So there's no way out of a whole year of med school. I thinking you are thinking way to far into this SMP thing. Its definitely not some miraculous venture that shoots you beyond most other applicants. There are plenty of applicants out there with med school level coursework, and we are all in the same boat just as the undergrads. There's a reason why only 5-12% of admitted students have some kind of graduate degree. I would worry about getting into a well-known SMP and more importantly boosting your GPA. 🙂 Good luck!
 
Hey relentless,

I was looking through some of your previous posts and saw you mention being in a PHD program at UCD. It sounds like a really great opportunity and I was wondering if you could expand on how you became a part of it. I am currently looking to do some graduate work myself and would love some guidance on the matter.

Thanks for your help!!
 
I have read from the admissions board website that 20% of applicants with a GPA less than 3.3 and 2% of applicants with a GPA less than 3.0 are accepted.
Are those numbers representative of DO schools as well? I would think not but let me know!
 
hey,
i am in my junior year and I recently found out i am on academic probation. i have no idea what my science gpa is but my cumulative one is 2.2 as of now. I think after this semester it will go even more down. i have no excuse for it other than the fact that i have been on vacation for the past 7 years of my life and havent studied one bit in school.
i am planning to write the MCATs this summer. in august and I am going to take the kaplan prep course. i have two months to study for it too. i wonder if i get can get a 36, if any college in US will actually even consider me.
not that i can pull out a 36 from up my sleeve but lets say i could if the lighten struck me on the head or something.

will they even consider it or is this a totally lost cause?
 
With a 2.2, even a 36 might not help you that much unless you have an upward trend. With your current probation, I'm going to guess there is no upward trend?

You'll need to do a post-bacc to bring up the grade and most likely a SMP. I suggest you buck up and go for the grade if you want to hope on the med skool train 🙂
 
hey,
i am in my junior year and I recently found out i am on academic probation. i have no idea what my science gpa is but my cumulative one is 2.2 as of now. I think after this semester it will go even more down. i have no excuse for it other than the fact that i have been on vacation for the past 7 years of my life and havent studied one bit in school.
i am planning to write the MCATs this summer. in august and I am going to take the kaplan prep course. i have two months to study for it too. i wonder if i get can get a 36, if any college in US will actually even consider me.
not that i can pull out a 36 from up my sleeve but lets say i could if the lighten struck me on the head or something.

will they even consider it or is this a totally lost cause?

A cumulative GPA of 2.2 in your junior year implies having nearly a C average in every course you took for 3 years. To be honest, I think given this situation, and even with a good MCAT score, you will probably have a hard time for Caribbean med schools too. However to be even more honest, here are the forces that are working against you at this time, and beyond:

(1) Most schools weigh the MCAT and undergrad GPA equally. Undergrad GPA is a good indicator of how well you do in med school classes, while MCAT is a good indicator of how well you will do on your board exams. There may be SOME bias for the MCAT at a few schools, but it is unlikely that any MCAT score can overcome a 2.2 GPA. A "passing" grade at UC Davis School of Medicine is a 75% or higher. Med school classes are obviously harder than undergrad classes, and you take more of them too, so a 2.2 GPA doesn't bode well for you in that aspect.

(2) Some schools screen GPA/MCAT. Most notably the med schools under the University of California do that. Their GPA cut-off is probably a 3.0-3.2. If you don't meet the cut-off, you don't get a secondary, and hence no interview, or any chance of admission. UCSF specifically states on their website that they tend to not even give a secondary to anyone with less than a 3.2. You usually have to meet both the GPA and MCAT cut-offs, not one or the other. There is SOME forgiveness. However it must be associated with recent, and extraordinary evidence. A student with a undergrad GPA of 2.8 (upward trend of 4.0), who had grad GPAof 3.97 in their PhD program, MCAT of 37, with great LORs, EC's, and PS was able to petition for a secondary at a UC med school. They ended up getting into med school. Clearly the proved they can do it over a long period of time. Doesn't work for everyone though. I may try the same thing and not get in at the same school.

(3) Your current GPA will make it very hard to get into any official post-bacc program, let alone an SMP. Graduate school is out of the question for two reasons (a) most grad programs require at least a 3.0 GPA, (b) graduate level courses won't boost your undergrad GPA anyway. So you will probably have to find some school that is willing to overlook the 2.2 GPA, or you will have to take classes through open campus which is rather challenging and expensive at times.

(4) Most obvious would be how difficult it is to get a high MCAT score regardless of your GPA. I have know people who had a 3.8 GPA in molecular biology who can only pull a 30 on the MCAT. Still a great score, but statistically speaking, with a 2.2 GPA, and 2 months to study for the MCAT, its unlikely you will get a good score. Kaplan or any other prep course should be used as GUIDELINES, not a way to guarantee a high score. Have you even taken a practice exam yet (www.e-mcat.com)? There are the extreme few that are strong standardized test takers, and do well despite their GPA. But see point #1 about MCAT vs. GPA.

(5) As stated, a 2.2 GPA implies a good number of C's or worse. Some schools require 2 letters of recommendation from science professors. Regardless, its always good to have a few letters showing that you can do well in rigorous science courses. If the professor likes you and knows you well, they wouldn't mind writing you a letter, however the question is can they write you a STRONG letter even if you had a C in the class?

(6) In the end, you are competing against the next-best applicant. The average student that gets into a US med school has an undergrad GPA of 3.4-3.5, and an MCAT score of 28-30. They volunteered in the clinical setting, and done community service. About 70-80% of them have research experience. All have strong letters of recommendations. However you will also be competing against those that have some insane stats. Now I have to point out here that when I say the average student, I actually mean the "median" student. MSAR uses the median because it implies a skewed distribution (e.g., there are more people with higher GPA's, MCAT scores, etc than those with lower ones). So its not appropriate to think that there are as many ultra-high scores as there are ultra-low scores. The reason for this nonparametric relationship is because schools screen for high scores to some extent.


You have one mountain to climb my friend. Its certainly not impossible since I've seen worse. However there's a lot to do, and right now I wouldn't place my bets on you just yet. I would focus more on getting out of academic probation and start getting 4.0's. Because, anything less than a 4.0 GPA every semester/quarter isn't going to help you. You might want to consider DO programs, but that means retaking and doing well in courses that you did poorly in. They replace the old grade with the new one unlike MD schools which count all retakes in addition to the original. I'd probably focus on your undergrad courses for now and worry about the MCAT later. As mshheaddoc said, you're going to have to do post-bacc to get your undergrad GPA up to a respectable level. This will show an upward trend and may prevent you from being screened out at some schools. At the very least it can then serve as a stepping stone so you can get into an SMP (min GPA of ~2.7-3.0 GPA), or an official post-bacc program. Remember, people have overcome illness, death, warzones (my friend over in Iraq for example), and other life altering changes to get into med school....you don't have any of those hurdles in the way, you just need to figure out how to start getting 4.0's. Good luck!
 
Junebuguf, I noticed in your posts on another thread that you got accepted to Med School. Congrats! Thank you for starting this thread ... it's been extremely helpful to so many of us.
Good luck living your dream.

I also wanted to thank you, Relentless11, for all of your helpful posts!

You guys rock 🙂
 
I've been reading through some of the helpful responses some of the users have provided, although they have given me some basic ideas of what i should be doing, i'd still like to go ahead and post my situation a bit and see if you guys have any new suggestions. I'm at a point where i am a bit confused and overwhelmed with so many choices, but perhaps not the most effective one.

I graduated from UCLA in 2005 with a sociology degree. I came in as Biochemistry major, but due to several family and personal issues throughout college I severely damaged my grades in the 3-4 science courses I took. I eventually finished up college with a Soc. Degree. And a terrible GPA of 2.3. Anyhow, since then I’ve gone to tech school as currently work as a Pharmacy Tech... I’ve always wanted to go to medical school and I know I can deal with the workload, I believe my maturity level during undergrad was very insignificant. I’ve maintained a 3.8 GPA thru tech school and recently I took a Human Biology class at a local JC and got an A. Now my question to those who have seen similar cases what would you guys suggest? I’ve been looking into local Cal State University’s into informal post-bacs, but I’d really like to do a formal post-bac where I would receive equal guidance as well as a chance to look into a linkage program. I’m looking into VCU as well. I’m seriously confused and downhearted.
 
Now my question to those who have seen similar cases what would you guys suggest? I’ve been looking into local Cal State University’s into informal post-bacs, but I’d really like to do a formal post-bac where I would receive equal guidance as well as a chance to look into a linkage program. I’m looking into VCU as well. I’m seriously confused and downhearted.

Yep, trying to recover from past academic damage is VERY confusing and can crush your spirit. If you let it. What I figured out the hard way is to always have something fun and/or satisfying to hold onto while I wallow through it. Sometimes it's ochem lab (I love ochem lab). Sometimes it's volunteer gigs. The pressure never lets up; you have to have outlets. You're going to be back in school with kids who've never made a mistake and still have fresh young innocent smiles. Don't let them make you feel inadequate or "late."

OK, so what to do. I'd argue that this is a case where a second bachelor's in science isn't out of the question. You need the prereqs, you need enough courses to impact your total undergrad GPA, and you should be demonstrating prowess at upper div science. If you're a 2nd-degree seeking student, you're eligible for financial aid and student services. Maybe not a bad idea. (Caveat: this is what I'm doing. I might need to do an SMP as well before anybody accepts me.)

A structured postbac is also a good idea for you. I'd plan to spend 2 years at it full time. Either way, don't plan on working much, or you won't have time to succeed. Pharm tech work experience will of course be helpful.

I don't get excited about linkage agreements. Too limiting. You'll have 2-5 schools to choose from, if that, and you'll have to be in the top 25% of your class to be eligible. (Right?) In terms of planning, when you've made it through the prereqs and the MCAT, with a checkered academic background, you'll want to apply to 20-30 schools, and not be limited by the linkage list. So I wouldn't choose a school by its linkage list. I get more excited about small class size, reasonable tuition, location, advising support, and what the students say (not just on SDN).

I'm on the west coast, and I assume you're in the east, so I can't say much about particular programs. But if I could do it again, Bennington, totally.

Best of luck to you.
 
Do a postbac at a Cal State. Small class size, reasonable tuition, good teachers (so far), less inclass competition. I went to a UC as well and the difference in teaching quality is astounding. Try to get into a 2nd bachelors, if only for the financial aid. Otherwise, if you have the financial means or can't get in do open university. With your gpa, you're looking at 2 year postbac at least and 1 year SMP (my plan as well). Save your money till SMP time.

I've been reading through some of the helpful responses some of the users have provided, although they have given me some basic ideas of what i should be doing, i'd still like to go ahead and post my situation a bit and see if you guys have any new suggestions. I'm at a point where i am a bit confused and overwhelmed with so many choices, but perhaps not the most effective one.

I graduated from UCLA in 2005 with a sociology degree. I came in as Biochemistry major, but due to several family and personal issues throughout college I severely damaged my grades in the 3-4 science courses I took. I eventually finished up college with a Soc. Degree. And a terrible GPA of 2.3. Anyhow, since then I’ve gone to tech school as currently work as a Pharmacy Tech... I’ve always wanted to go to medical school and I know I can deal with the workload, I believe my maturity level during undergrad was very insignificant. I’ve maintained a 3.8 GPA thru tech school and recently I took a Human Biology class at a local JC and got an A. Now my question to those who have seen similar cases what would you guys suggest? I’ve been looking into local Cal State University’s into informal post-bacs, but I’d really like to do a formal post-bac where I would receive equal guidance as well as a chance to look into a linkage program. I’m looking into VCU as well. I’m seriously confused and downhearted.
 
DrMidLife ---àThank you very much for your uplifting words, really that’s what I try to do when I volunteer, it truly keeps me focused and determined to become a physician. I’m actually in the west coast, California to be exact. Besides the Cal-States would you recommend any of the east coast postbac programs? You mentioned Bennington, any other recommendations similar to the Bennington program? I’m actually looking for a structured program similar to that.

cheezer--à financial aid is actually available if I declare a second bac? I had no idea. Also, I don’t mean to be hasty, but is there a way to reduce the total of three years you just recommended to say max. 2years? I’m thinking whether I can do all the pre-reqs in say 18 months or so. Is it possible?

Thanks Guys!!!
 
I am in need of some advice on what to do for the next two semesters.

I just finished up the second semester of my senior year, but I will not graduate due to being 4 credits short. I expect to have around a 2.91 GPA when all of my grades are posted. I am registered for summer school, but I really want to finish up in the in the fall and graduate in December. Does this seems like a good idea? If there are better options could someone help me out?
 

cheezer--à financial aid is actually available if I declare a second bac? I had no idea.

Yes I think, as long as you haven't borrowed the maximum amount on loans for Stafford, which I think is 23-24k. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

Personally I applied under the pretenses of doing a grad program. The amount I can borrow is a bit higher. Need the dinero.

Also, I don’t mean to be hasty, but is there a way to reduce the total of three years you just recommended to say max. 2years? I’m thinking whether I can do all the pre-reqs in say 18 months or so. Is it possible?

Well I was just suggesting it because your undergrad gpa is low. You could do the prereqs in a year if you wanted to (taking Gen Chem in the summer) but it wouldn't bring up your gpa much. From what I've read in these forums, you should try to raise your ugrad gpa as much as possible before you do a masters since they're reported seperately. Otherwise, I'd jump on the same plan.
 
Hey guys I am in need of some advice and help.

I am about to graduate after 1-2 more semesters, but I have a really low GPA of around 2.3. If I do well for the last 2 semesters I might bring it up to a 2.4-2.5. My MCAT is a 34 and I know with stats like this, I can't even go anywhere in the US or the Caribs. So, I know of post-bac programs but since my GPA is below the required GPA of most post-bac programs, what can I do? Should I give up med-school and pursue another career? Or is there hope for me.

By the way, what is the average age of students that enter med-school?

Thanks for the help and any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
Hey guys I am in need of some advice and help.

I am about to graduate after 1-2 more semesters, but I have a really low GPA of around 2.3. If I do well for the last 2 semesters I might bring it up to a 2.4-2.5. My MCAT is a 34 and I know with stats like this, I can't even go anywhere in the US or the Caribs. So, I know of post-bac programs but since my GPA is below the required GPA of most post-bac programs, what can I do? Should I give up med-school and pursue another career? Or is there hope for me.

By the way, what is the average age of students that enter med-school?

Thanks for the help and any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Wow! You got a GREAT MCAT score. Only if that gpa is higher than what you have.... 🙂
Here is my opinion. First, do well in the next two semesters. I know that it is very important to show an increasing GPA trend. I dunno when you are going to graduate. I think you should apply to SMP after graduation. If you graduate this fall, you can apply for SMPs that you can start next winter (january 08). I know BU MAMS is one of them. You can apply for 08 fall SMPs if you would like to. You will have much more SMPs to apply for if you apply for the fall.

If you don't get into SMP, you can take upper level sci courses as a formal/informal postbacc student. I know that it won't bring you up to that critical 3.6 gpa. But it will definitely show you that you can handle rigorous science courses. After doing postbacc, you can apply to SMP or Medical school.

With 34 on MCAT, you definitely should not lose hope.
 
I know that it won't bring you up to that critical 3.6 gpa. But it will definitely show you that you can handle rigorous science courses. After doing postbacc, you can apply to SMP or Medical school.

With 34 on MCAT, you definitely should not lose hope.

Although I agree that the its a great MCAT score, there's no such thing as a "critical" GPA cut-off to get into med school. However the higher your GPA is, the better your chances are. The closest thing to a "cut-off" would be at schools that screen GPA/MCAT such as UC med schools. Where a 3.0-3.2 GPA is the cut off for receiving a secondary. A UC Davis, an undergrad GPA of 3.8 and above gives you an extra point on your application score.

For the OP, it imperative that he/she boosts their undergrad GPA to a 3.0. Since: (1) it may meet GPA cut-offs at schools that screen for GPA, (2) allows the OP to be more competitive to get into an official post-bacc program or SMP, (3) going from a 2.4 to a 3.0 implies significant upward GPA trends (which is good), and (4) if need be, the student could do a grad program since most grad programs have a 3.0 requirement anyway. The real question is that possible?

Doing well on the MCAT doesn't necessarily mean you can do well in classwork or vice versa. I suggest that the OP do the math on how long will it take to get up to a 3.0. I know 2 semesters won't don't it. The OP is basing the improvement on IF he/she does well. Don't average or poorly only makes the effort even more challenging. Therefore its highly advisable to figure why there is a GPA deficiency. In the end, the solution to the GPA issue is the same as it been in huge thread. If you have a GPA problem, then take more upper division undergrad classes. Doesn't matter if you have a 1.0 GPA, or a 3.5 GPA, its the same thing.

On a side note, the average age for med students is 24-26 these days. That is probably the least of your concerns, given there are 40-50 year old med students, and apparently a 70 year old law student now (see the news).
 
FYI...as rough calculation: with 4 years of undergrad at a 2.40 cummulative GPA, it will take you 2.5 more years of full-time undergrad coursework while scoring 4.0 GPA that entire time just for you to have a 3.0 overall. Which still isn't competetive for medical school admissions.

You may want to consider DO schools which give you more credit for retakes. Take a post-bacc year to continue your upward trend, then try for a SMP like someone else suggested.

Good luck.
 
FYI...as rough calculation: with 4 years of undergrad at a 2.40 cummulative GPA, it will take you 2.5 more years of full-time undergrad coursework while scoring 4.0 GPA that entire time just for you to have a 3.0 overall. Which still isn't competetive for medical school admissions.

You may want to consider DO schools which give you more credit for retakes. Take a post-bacc year to continue your upward trend, then try for a SMP like someone else suggested.

Good luck.

I agree a 3.0 in general is not competitive. However lets round out those 2.5 years of post-bacc to 3 since he/she would probably finish out that year as well. That 3 years of additional undergrad coursework with a 4.0 GPA. Overall GPA plays a role, however as many have pointed out, trends are good too. The reason being that RECENT trends are better indicators of academic performance for obvious reasons.

Now does that mean that everyone who did poorly in undergrad, but kicked butt for 1-2 years in post-bacc to get their GPA up or past 3.0 can redeem themselves. Not quite. Med schools review these things on a case-by-case basis--a person who partied all undergrad doesn't look too good compared to someone who raised a family all through undergrad. Even then, either one of these reasons are not "excuses". It ultimately comes down to how you sell yourself, and use your strengths that gets you into an MD or DO school.

One thing to note though, Go Lance!'s rough calculation there implies a 2.5-3 year time period to work on GPA. The good news is thats probably a realistic assessment, and a reasonable time period. The bad news is that also means Brisk will have to retake his/her MCAT since most schools require an MCAT score from the last 3 years. Which is actually my case...haha. I had a 36, and now going to retake it again. IMO, the CB-MCAT is fun...like a video game. Finally all those years of video games will pay off!😛

To address this threads main topic, overcoming low GPA and/or MCAT--you want to be a outlier (in a positive way) in this rehab game for those <3.0 GPAs. One best way is to rock the MCAT. A 34 and above would be ideal. Combined with significant GPA trends you'll have a better chance. When I say significant, I mean 4.0s in rigorous coursework. However, once GPA/MCAT have been worked up, you'll need to stand out even more. This is where my advise ends because its really up to the applicant to "sell themselves" as a unique individual, rather than another pre-med clone. Good luck!
 
I will be attending a post bacc program in the fall. My overall GPA is a devastating 2.5. I cringe everytime I say it out loud. However, I haven't taken any pre reqs.
I know that I probablywont ever get my overall GPA up to 3.0 for medschool cutoffs. But does it make a difference if I have a low GPA and my science GPA is a 3.5 or higher? as well as a high MCAT?
Or do they just lump the science and overall gpa together when they consider you for secondaries?
 
I will be attending a post bacc program in the fall. My overall GPA is a devastating 2.5. I cringe everytime I say it out loud. However, I haven't taken any pre reqs.
I know that I probablywont ever get my overall GPA up to 3.0 for medschool cutoffs. But does it make a difference if I have a low GPA and my science GPA is a 3.5 or higher? as well as a high MCAT?
Or do they just lump the science and overall gpa together when they consider you for secondaries?

See the thing here is that in addition to cut-off's you are competing against OTHER applicants. You are expected to do well in whatever you do. A high science GPA can only be a positive thing, but there are plenty of applicants who have high overall GPA's in addition to a science GPA of 3.5 and above. Case in point, look at the median scores for those admitted to US med schools. The overall GPA is a 3.4-3.6 while the science GPA can be even higher. The key component there is that AAMC uses the median. Which implies that when you put every admitted person in the order of highest to lowest GPA. The number in the middle or average of the two middle GPA's = 3.4-3.6. Therefore half the the admitted students can have at least that GPA or higher, and half of the students can have that GPA or lower. I would infer that <1% of all admitted students in the US have a GPA of <3.0, and even then these people showed significant improvement (e.g., SMP, post-bacc, grad school). However clearly, <1% is not a big number at all.

Its obvious that the higher the GPA, the higher the MCAT score, or whatever else puts you in a better position than being an applicant with a low GPA and pisspoor MCAT score. However, one also has to consider that there are no guarantees on being admitted even with a 4.0 GPA, or 45 on the MCAT. You have a better chance compared to someone with a 3.0 GPA and 20 MCAT if you look at it in terms of numbers.

Lastly, MCAT is not interchangable for GPA or vice versa. They are apples and oranges, therefore doing well in one does not make up for the other. It appears you are making numerous assumptions here. I would come back when you have an MCAT score, and when you are prepared to apply. We can probably give you a better idea at that point.

I'm not sure how many units you have, but its really not that bad to get your GPA up to a 3.0. I had a 2.65 GPA after undergrad. I probably could've gotten my GPA to a 3.0 with 2 years of hard post-bacc work, but I decided to do a year of post-bacc and a PhD. My GPA is about a 2.8-2.9 now since I've been maintaining a 4.0. So its not that that bad. You are doing the right thing by doing post-bacc though. However, again, I wouldn't assume a high MCAT score until you have at least done a few practice exams, and so forth. Its quite clear that if you have a high GPA and high MCAT score, you are in a good place--albeit there are still no guarantees. Good luck!
 
How do you'll calculate overall GPA after doing post-bacc? Do you just add your previous undergraduate GPA to your post-bacc and divide by two? Also, what if an individual takes upper level undergraduate courses while pursuing a master's do they count in the post-bacc category or with graduate GPA? Thanks in advance for taking the time to respond to my questions:🙂)
 
How do you'll calculate overall GPA after doing post-bacc? Do you just add your previous undergraduate GPA to your post-bacc and divide by two?

Yes

Also, what if an individual takes upper level undergraduate courses while pursuing a master's do they count in the post-bacc category or with graduate GPA? Thanks in advance for taking the time to respond to my questions:🙂)

Post-bacc GPA if undergrad classes are electives. If they are for your graduate degree, that may be different, but who would really know?😉
 
thank you very much Relentless11 and every one else how advised me. so i guess it is better for me to take two more years of my undergrad. maybe double major and bring up my GPA to a decent level and then figure something out. about med school. boy! this is going to be a long road...
i am still thinking of doing my best on the MCAT this summer just to get a boost of confidence and then take up all the courses with full dedication from fall semester.

thanks guys. and good luck to all.
 
How do you'll calculate overall GPA after doing post-bacc? Do you just add your previous undergraduate GPA to your post-bacc and divide by two?

Erm... I think relentless11 was a little hasty in responding.

You don't just divide by two; you add up all of your course scores across both courses and then divide by total course number.

So, you can't just do a 2.0 in 40 courses for undergrad and then 4.0 in 4 courses for your post-bacc, add them and divide to get 3.0 :-/

( (2.0 * 40) + (4.0 * 4) ) / 44 = 2.18

So, you see, a half-year of post-bacc doesn't go very far to improve a bad GPA :-/

It takes a long time to fix a GPA this way. Often the best thing to do is to retake some of the courses that you really did badly in (especially if they are pre-reqs) and apply to DO schools, who will forgive the old grades and replace them with the newer ones.

One thing that is directly averaged, however, is the MCAT. If you do 23 on it the first time, and 38 on the second try, you end up with 30.5

So, if in doubt about your ability to get a good MCAT grade, don't take it unless you absolutely have to. Keep your powder dry for when you can really do well in it.
 
Erm... I think relentless11 was a little hasty in responding.

Yes thanks for the correction DoctorPhud. You do not divide by 2, you just divide by the overall amount of units you took.

Otherwise dividing by 2 would just be averaging the two GPA's (an average of an average), rather than taking the grade point average of all your classes.


DoctorPhud said:
One thing that is directly averaged, however, is the MCAT. If you do 23 on it the first time, and 38 on the second try, you end up with 30.5.

This is incorrect. AMCAS reports all MCAT scores. It is up to the school to take the best score, average the scores, or the most recent scores. California schools take the most recent scores. Most schools usually do this method, however there are a few exceptions. I'm not sure about DO schools though.
 
I will be attending a post bacc program in the fall. My overall GPA is a devastating 2.5. I cringe everytime I say it out loud. However, I haven't taken any pre reqs.
I know that I probablywont ever get my overall GPA up to 3.0 for medschool cutoffs. But does it make a difference if I have a low GPA and my science GPA is a 3.5 or higher? as well as a high MCAT?
Or do they just lump the science and overall gpa together when they consider you for secondaries?

WHICH POST BAC ARE YOU ATTENDING?
 
hello all,

just curious whether it's a good idea to address the low gpa in one's personal statement when applying to a postbacc?
thanks!

You must address either GPA or MCAT short comings in any personal statement whether for medical school or for post-bac/SMP. But, while you must address these things, you should not dwell on them for long.

I am a graduating senior at the College of William and Mary with a GPA of 2.77, MCAT 27Q, majoring in Neuroscience and Kinesiology. I also have 2 years of clinical setting work as a medical scribe.

Any advice for me?

You have 2 options: either do a lot of post-bac work and bring up that GPA
significantly or try and go for an SMP. The SMP with such a low GPA can be risky but can be a good way to skip the 3-5 years of undergrad post-bac you would have to do. If you decide on the SMP right out of the gate you need to bring up the MCAT to a 30.

Since you went to W&M i figure you are instate. In that case I would recommend you look into the VCU Certificate program (graduate level, similar to an SMP). This is what I did and it got me in w/ a sub-3.0 GPA


Hey... Does anyone know...
If your GPA is low as an undergrad, and you, by some miracle of GOD, get accepted into a SMP and get awesome grades in it, will MD schools give you credit for that, and be more forgiving in terms of your undergrad GPA??

An SMP can be a great way to make up for a poor undergraduate GPA. Generally though you need to be close to a 3.0 mark. If you are well below that mark there is a limited amt that an SMP can do.

One thing that is directly averaged is the MCAT. If you do 23 on it the first time, and 38 on the second try, you end up with 30.5

I have heard of no schools that average the MCAT. Most take the most recent score and a few even take your best performance on each section.
 
hey all..

i am relatively new to this forum and I think this forum is great so far👍

Here my story and in desperate need for any input/advice.

I graduated in 2005 with the a B.S. in Biology (have taken all the prereqs for medical school) w/ a gpa of 2.67 in addition ending with academic probabation. Imagine graduating with academic probation at the end of your degree;not a pretty picture.

I figured the thing to do was to do a post bac program to raise my undergraduate gpa and show an upward trend in A's.
So i applied for several of post bacs/masters in biological science programs in the meantime I was prepping for the MCAT. Looks like my scores are still in the teens so I guess I have to reschedule to take the mcat later on like in July.

this means that all the time and money I applied for these postbac/master programs for this Fall was a waste of time and money. I dont know waht to do now. I really intended and want to go to school thi Fall. I also think I am not studying right and having relearn all the material for the mcat in a bummer (it has been a few years since I have taken science or math).

Should I wait for next year until my mcat scores go up? OR should I attend a school a non degree student and take classes (assuming i get all A's) and study for the mact somemore? OR maybe I can look for schools that are on rolling admissions for post bacs (dont think there are any).

I Dont mean to include any personal isssues but my boyfriend is moving to the eastcoast and I am thinking about going to school there. I am from california, is it likely I can move to eastcoat adjust and pull off A's? Also should I take only upperdivision courses or take classes over I got a C's in?

So many questions ans so little time. thanks all for reading my story any responses would be wonderful. gl to all

~m~
 
hey all..

i am relatively new to this forum but I think this forum is great so far👍

Here my story and in desperate need for any input/advice.

I graduated in 2005 with the a B.S. in Biology (have taken all the prereqs for medical school) w/ a gpa of 2.67 in addition ending with academic probabation. Imagine graduating with academic probation at the end of our degree;not a pretty picture.

I figured the thing to do was to do a post bac program to raise my undergraduate gpa and show an upward trend in A's.
So i applied for several of post bacs/masters in biological science programs in the meantime I was prepping for the MCAT. Looks like my scores are still in the teens so I guess I have to reschedule to take the mcat later on like in July. this means that all the time and money I applied for these postbac/master programs for this Fall was a waste of time and money. I dont know waht to do now. I really intended and want to go to school thi Fall. I also think I am not studying right and having relearn all the material for the mcat in a bummer (it has been a few years since I have taken science or math). Should I wait for next year until my mcat scores go up? OR should I attend a school a non degree student and take classes (assuming i get all A's) and study for the mact somemore? OR maybe I can look for schools that are on rolling admissions for post bacs (dont think there are any).
Dont mean to include to take a personal isssues but my boyfriend is moving to the eastcoast and I am thinking about going to school there. I am from california is it likely I can move to eastcoat adjust and pull off A's? Also should I take only upperdivision courses or take classes over I got a C's in?

So many questions ans so little time. thanks all for reading my story any responses would be wonderful. gl to all!!!

~m~
 
So i applied for several of post bacs/masters in biological science programs in the meantime I was prepping for the MCAT.

I don't advise a masters program since (1) graduate courses do not boost your undergrad GPA. A <3.0 undergrad GPA without any upward trend in similar coursework is never good. (2) Most, if not all, masters programs worth their salt requires a GPA of 3.0 and above for admissions. Such as all graduate programs under the University of California.

Looks like my scores are still in the teens so I guess I have to reschedule to take the mcat later on like in July. this means that all the time and money I applied for these postbac/master programs for this Fall was a waste of time and money. I dont know waht to do now. I really intended and want to go to school thi Fall.

Certainly do what you think is best, however I don't quite understand why moving the MCAT to July would compromise your application to postbacc/masters programs which would start in August-September. How long have you been studying for the MCAT? Most people start out with scores in the teens (15-18), however quickly average around 22-24. Near test time, they should be near 28-32 (if not more).

The MCAT is equally important as GPA. Doing well in one does not make up for the other. For example, UC med schools treat GPA and MCAT equally. You can have a 45 on the MCAT, but a <3.0 GPA could screw you over as early as the primary applications due to screening (or vice versa). Most schools treat MCAT and GPA in this manner, however not many schools screen GPA/MCAT either.

Should I wait for next year until my mcat scores go up? OR should I attend a school a non degree student and take classes (assuming i get all A's) and study for the mact somemore? OR maybe I can look for schools that are on rolling admissions for post bacs (dont think there are any).

Your call, but waiting a year is more time that you could be doing something productive. Studying for the MCAT is not an extracurricular. You could volunteer during that time, however any amount of volunteering, regardless of its significance, will not make up for a poor MCAT score and/or GPA. Therefore in all honesty, your focus should be on improving your undergrad GPA and then the MCAT. See the thousands of previous posts in this thread about other options. But pretty much, post-bacc is the way to go since you don't have a competative GPA to get into a Special Masters Program, and a normal graduate program would not help your GPA problem.

MCAT...well thats a whole different animal. I can suggest a plethora of things to do, but ultimately its something you may have to figure out on your own. Take a prep class, or whatever else, but in the end its up to you on how to learn the material effectively. Each person has their own way of studying. I for one just do problems day and night.

Dont mean to include to take a personal isssues but my boyfriend is moving to the eastcoast and I am thinking about going to school there. I am from california is it likely I can move to eastcoat adjust and pull off A's? Also should I take only upperdivision courses or take classes over I got a C's in?

California schools are no different form schools on the east coast. So I don't understand your question about pulling off A's. The question is, are you pulling off A's in upper division science classes here in CA?

In regards to retaking classes, if you want to apply to MD schools, then retaking a C is useless. ALL grades are counted, including the first grade you got in the class, and the grade you got when you retook the class. For DO schools, they take the most recent or best score...i forget which. Depends on what you want to do. However the more important question is....pulling off A's. No offense, but a 2.67 GPA coupled to a practice MCAT score in the teens seems to correlate with a deficiency somewhere....most likely overall study habits.

You MUST figure out what is going wrong, so you can pull a GPA of 3.5+ in a rigorous courseload of upper division science classes, and get an MCAT score of 30+. Of course the MCAT score should be pretty well rounded too (10, 10, 10). Its not impossible to do, I started out with a 2.65 GPA, and have boosted it up to a 2.8. Should hit 3.0 next year, and also had a 36 on the MCAT. However my issue was working to support my family, rather than study habits. Ironically the challenges that I dealt with as an undergrad made me study more efficiently...haha. Funny how these things work out like that.🙄

Good luck!
 
wow...thanks so much relentless11! you imput is greatly appreciated

you have raised your gpa by alot and your mcat is great. I can certainly use you an example and do the same. on top of that you gpa wasnt so high because you supported your family...I on the other hand have bad study habits to blame and was a distracted lil girl in college. Not any more.

I have been studying for the mcat for months now but havent got down to really studying for hours a day because of a fulltime job in a research lab. luckily im quitting this week, thank goodness! Since I am not ready to take the mcat now I need at least a couple of months so I plan to register in July and take it then. It takes 30 days to get your test scores back, so my scores (even if a do Ok) will be too late for all the places I applied for. most of deadlines for fall admissions is Aug 1.

It looks like I am going to enroll as non degree student and take upper division courses mostl likely in NY and excell in them. i suppose then need to take at least 24 credits to raise that gpa. So I guess I will take the mcat after doing a post bac. i hope what I am thinking/planning about sounds about right. thanks again.

Anything imput from anyone would be real nice =)

~m~
 
I'm so loving this thread. It seems like all you hear about is the people who are lucky enough to get in to med school....what about the rest of us? 😀
I do have a question, though. I have already taken all my premed req's (graduated in 2005 with bio degree) but I still think my GPA is holding me back. If I complete a post-bac program do any of you know how those grades are treated? Would they even be factored into my undergrad GPA? Thanks for the help everyone!
 
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hey all..
Here my story and in desperate need for any input/advice.
doctito, I don't in any way mean to be a wet blanket, but do you have specific things that suggest to you that you will have improved grades in the future? Has something dramatically changes since you earned your 2.7? As someone who came back from a 2.4 undergrad, I can tell you that you need to know what went wrong and have a good plan for fixing it. MCAT practice tests in the teens are also not very promising, although you can bring that up with some heavy-duty preparation. I sat on the adcom at my school this year, and I just want to lay it to you straight.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't read relentless11's comments before posting.
 
I'm so loving this thread. It seems like all you hear about is the people who are lucky enough to get in to med school....what about the rest of us? 😀
I do have a question, though. I have already taken all my premed req's (graduated in 2005 with bio degree) but I still think my GPA is holding me back. If I complete a post-bac program do any of you know how those grades are treated? Would they even be factored into my undergrad GPA? Thanks for the help everyone!
Post-bacc undergrad grades show up on the AMCAS as a separate line, after "Senior" grades, and are averaged into your cumulative undergrad GPA. If you take grad school courses, these are not added into undergrad. At any rate, adcoms take recent grades more seriously than old grades (i.e. the trend is important) but it takes quite a few credits (30-40) to be convincing. Some people discount grad grades as being more inflated than undergrad, but I really don't.
 
Post-bacc undergrad grades show up on the AMCAS as a separate line, after "Senior" grades, and are averaged into your cumulative undergrad GPA. If you take grad school courses, these are not added into undergrad. At any rate, adcoms take recent grades more seriously than old grades (i.e. the trend is important) but it takes quite a few credits (30-40) to be convincing. Some people discount grad grades as being more inflated than undergrad, but I really don't.


That's kind of what I figured. But as far as what type of program you get post-bac grades in, how much does that matter? I mean I'm sure that adcoms looks at the programs/schools but part of me (the lazy part😀 ) can't help but want to just take a bunch of science credits at the local community college, get awesome grades and raise my GPA!
Also, I have already taken all the premed req's at one university but I am thinking about doing the post-bac premed program at another university to boost my GPA....does that count as retaking the classes since it's a different school? How are grades be factored for repeating a course?
 
That's kind of what I figured. But as far as what type of program you get post-bac grades in, how much does that matter? I mean I'm sure that adcoms looks at the programs/schools but part of me (the lazy part😀 ) can't help but want to just take a bunch of science credits at the local community college, get awesome grades and raise my GPA!
Also, I have already taken all the premed req's at one university but I am thinking about doing the post-bac premed program at another university to boost my GPA....does that count as retaking the classes since it's a different school? How are grades be factored for repeating a course?

The keyword in taking post-bacc classes would be "upper division", which translates to courses taken as a jr. or sr. in college. Community college coursework is ONLY lower division.

As stated in my reply above, ALL courses are counted, including the first time you took it. This applies to MD schools only. Therefore if you got a B the first time, and got an A the second time--then AMCAS counts both the B and A. Its as if you took two seperate classes. Of course med schools can probably figure it out. Given that you are expected to do well the FIRST time, and the ease which you can get an A the second time...the retake isn't really that benficial unless you had a D or F (even then its not that good).

For the most part, which school or program you do isn't a big deal in the classes you take. However the school's reptuation "may" play a role. Mainly if another school is aware of the rigors at school A vs. school B. For example, getting an A in general chemistry at Berkeley is much harder to acheive than at a community college (GChem is lower division). Just a lot of competition at Cal. The subject isn't harder, but the people you are taking the class with are pretty top notch (relatively speaking).

You are expected to take the most rigorous route within reason. Especially if you are trying to boost GPA. If you are just getting pre-reqs out of hte way and you did fine at your undergrad institution, then doesn't really matter.

Improving GPA isn't neccessarily about taking as many classes as you can per se. You also need to address your weaknesses. For example, if you got C's in GChem, then a possible route would be taking PChem. If you do well in PChem, then you can at least say you know the material, and it was more rigorous too. Sadly, not all classes have "more advanced" counterparts. Short of graduate school, there isn't really a more advanced version of OChem. If you did poorly in physiology (not a pre-req though), you can always take more organ specific classes such as endocrinology, cardiac physiology, etc. This of course leads into the other benefit of going to a reputable university (vs. a less reputable university or community college). Such schools have a variety of classes to take. Here at UC Davis, we have an unimaginable amount of classes that focus around physiology. Where as our neighboring school, Sacramento State has a lot less. Sac State is an OK school, but iut just doesn't have the large selection of classes.

Therefore, its time to ante up and get A's in challenging upper division classes. Not that hard to get awesome grades in upper division classes. There are far worse things out there than going to class and taking exams. I have found the MCAT's verbal reasoning section to be quite annoying. It was like pulling teeth to get up to a 10.
 
I have been studying for the mcat for months now but havent got down to really studying for hours a day because of a fulltime job in a research lab. luckily im quitting this week, thank goodness! Since I am not ready to take the mcat now I need at least a couple of months so I plan to register in July and take it then. It takes 30 days to get your test scores back, so my scores (even if a do Ok) will be too late for all the places I applied for. most of deadlines for fall admissions is Aug 1.

yea take the MCAT when you're ready. You don't want to go through it more than you have to. I have to retake my MCAT again (ironically) since its more than 3 years old now...haha. But med schools would understand, and its not as bad as the first time😉.
 
doctito, I don't in any way mean to be a wet blanket, but do you have specific things that suggest to you that you will have improved grades in the future? Has something dramatically changes since you earned your 2.7? As someone who came back from a 2.4 undergrad, I can tell you that you need to know what went wrong and have a good plan for fixing it. MCAT practice tests in the teens are also not very promising, although you can bring that up with some heavy-duty preparation. I sat on the adcom at my school this year, and I just want to lay it to you straight.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't read relentless11's comments before posting.

never heard of 'wet blanket' before but thanks for responding liverotcod. It kinda fun when people ask me why didnt you do well at in college and whats makes you think you can pull off A's in a post bac. I am not going into detail but when I had the chance to live away from home I took advantage of it (my parents are crazy and its hell at home). Family issues on top of it. And I cant really say that I studied like a science should of have. Trust me, now and more focused than ever. All I did when I was out of school was work and now I dont have work 🙂 . time to study and take those upper division courses and get A's.

mind if I ask but why did you did you do to bring that gpa up? what went went wrong when you brought low grades and what made you bring that gpa up? I like hearing poeple stories, kinda gives me hope in a way. thanks

~m~
 
yea take the MCAT when you're ready. You don't want to go through it more than you have to. I have to retake my MCAT again (ironically) since its more than 3 years old now...haha. But med schools would understand, and its not as bad as the first time😉.

gl taking the mcat relentless..i know you'll be fine 🙂 . thanks for all the replys

~m~
 
mind if I ask but why did you did you do to bring that gpa up? what went went wrong when you brought low grades and what made you bring that gpa up? I like hearing poeple stories, kinda gives me hope in a way. thanks

~m~
I'm glad you have a handle on how to improve. Sometimes people with poor academics have unrealistic expectations of how they're suddenly going to "turn it around" and then wind up spending $20 or 30K in a post-bacc program only to get Bs, and have essentially no chance at getting in.

Here's my story, from page 5 of this thread... I don't blame you for not reading from the beginning!

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2377369#post2377369

That post seems like a long time ago now. Two years down, two to go! Cramming for Step 1 at the moment. It's worse than the MCAT, if that's even possible.
 
2.59 In my Electrical Engineering Bachelors with Computer Engineering Minor. I did alright in my first two years, but just lost interest the last couple years. Hard degree and I didn't try as hard as I should have. Obviously it wasn't what I really wanted to do.

3.84 in 50 hours of my Post bach including all the premed reqs and upper division chemistry and biology at UT Austin. Only two B's I got were in a 6 weeks summer term Vertebrate Physiology I (Neuroscience), and a 5 hour french class I took for fun.

2.8999 is the cumulative GPA today with 201 hours.
I got a 31R; 12PS: 10VR; 9 BS

My Comparative Phys. prof (one of my 5 LORs) tells me not to sell myself short. What do you guys think?
 
3.84 in 50 hours of my Post bach including all the premed reqs and upper division chemistry and biology at UT Austin. Only two B's I got were in a 6 weeks summer term Vertebrate Physiology I (Neuroscience), and a 5 hour french class I took for fun.

2.8999 is the cumulative GPA today with 201 hours.
I got a 31R; 12PS: 10VR; 9 BS

My Comparative Phys. prof (one of my 5 LORs) tells me not to sell myself short. What do you guys think?

If you 1) can get past the screens and 2) have good medical exposure and letters (the rest of your app is good), I think you should do fine. Apply broadly, obvious. Some schools won't send you a secondary with that GPA. But if you get a human looking at it (and you will) they will look at the substantial bost-bacc as redemptive, I should think. You're where doctito above needs to get to.
 
First of all... like someone else has said before, I LOVE THIS THREAD. I've posted on here before but some time has passed so I would like to update some information.

I just finished my third year at a well-known institution. First semester I didn't do very well but FINALLY, I earned a 3.53 second semester (lowest grade was a B in biochem, I've never worked so hard for a B in my life!) which pulled my cumulative to a 2.83, which I will do everything I can to pull as close to a 3.0 by graduation.

I am currently taking the Kaplan course for the MCAT (taking in August) and I start volunteering with a hospice next week. What's the best route to go from here?
 
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