The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

[DrMidlife]

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Any suggestions on what may be a good plan of action for me?
Thanks

I suggest contacting the schools that accepted you last go round and working with them to regain your standing. Kind of like seeking a retro-deferral. Be ready to answer questions about your depression intelligently and unemotionally, such as how you know you're not going to have another episode.

 

[MissPiggy123]

I've somewhat been insecure about getting advice from people.. but this forum is making me feel welcome.

Overall Undergrad GPA: 2.54
June 2008

Currently:
-Working as a RA at a Biotech Company
-Fulfilling Nursing requirements (City College Courses, not sure if this was a good idea for improving my GPA but State schools and my University are expensive per unit 🙁)
-Fulfilling Clinical Laboratory Scientist Courses (will take online from a University)
-Taking leadership role in Student Run Clinic (3rd year as a member)
-Searching and considering applying to post bac programs this cycle

Hopes for next Fall 2010 ranked:
1) Get into Post Bac
2) Get into CLS program and then be able to get into Post Bac after that
3) Complete nursing requirements and apply if all else fails

 

[DrMidlife]

I've somewhat been insecure about getting advice from people.. but this forum is making me feel welcome.

Overall Undergrad GPA: 2.54
June 2008

Currently:
-Working as a RA at a Biotech Company
-Fulfilling Nursing requirements (City College Courses, not sure if this was a good idea for improving my GPA but State schools and my University are expensive per unit 🙁)
-Fulfilling Clinical Laboratory Scientist Courses (will take online from a University)
-Taking leadership role in Student Run Clinic (3rd year as a member)
-Searching and considering applying to post bac programs this cycle

Hopes for next Fall 2010 ranked:
1) Get into Post Bac
2) Get into CLS program and then be able to get into Post Bac after that
3) Complete nursing requirements and apply if all else fails

What's your question? Do you want to go to medical school? (Can't tell: there's a whole lot of career planning going on up there.)

"Post bac" means any additional undergrad study after a bachelors degree is earned. It includes everything from taking night classes at an online university in the Bahamas, to doing a structured one year med school prerequisites program that's all but guaranteed to get you into med school, such as Bryn Mawr.

Nursing prereqs do not overlap with medical school prereqs.

 

[meilideai]

Hi all,
I am feeling a little lost with my current gpa situation. I have a 3.3 overall, 3.1 science. I've been hoping to get a strong upward trend my 5th year and did 2 quarters of 3.5, but killed it with a 2.9 the third quarter. I finished my last class this summer with an A.
I don't have a strong upward trend like many SMP applicants do and have posted on the G-town yahoo group in which I was directed to seek advice from a counselor. I have, but didn't find anything too helpful except to consider Carribean schools.
I know DrMidLife and Gujudoc has much experience with this department, and I certainly welcome comments from others as well, so please let me know what you think is the best thing to do at this point.
I am planning to take the MCATs in Jan, have devised a 4-month study plan by date, and started to do some previewing, hoping to do a 30+.
I would like to apply to SMPs this coming December, but feel I am lacking in proving that I can handle rigorous science coursework. What do you think?

Thanks in advance

 

[toronto23]

Hi,

I'm a newbie on the forum, and the stories I read in this thread are definitely encouraging and uplifting. I graduated with a B.Sc. from the University of Toronto in Neuroscience in 2008. I am a Canadian citizen. Since then I've been working full-time as a clinical research assistant at a Toronto hospital. I have enough ECs for my med apps. I sent in my applications early to a few of the US med schools, but not really expecting a favorable reply from the adcomms b/c of my not-so-great stats:

undergraduate cGPA UofT: 3.20
AAMC BCPM cGPA 2.79 (FR 3.20, SO 2.13, JU 2.93, SE 3.15) Hours 82
AAMC AO cGPA 3.64 (FR 3.6, SO 3.57, JU 3.64, SE 3.69) Hours 65
AAMC Total cGPA 3.17 (FR 3.34, SO 2.49, JU 3.32, SE 3.46) Hours 147
MCAT 25R (PS 8/ VR 8/ BS 9/ WS R)

I'm contemplating whether to do an SMP or MPH and retake my MCATs and apply to US schools again, but don't know how much it will help considering I am international applicant. I was looking at Loyola, Rosalind Franklin, Dartmouth, and Wayne for SMP programs but not even sure if I will get admitted b/c I'm applying as an international. Then I think if I should just apply to SABA or one of the other carib schools if US is not looking like an option for me. I have almost all my family there in NY, NJ, and Michigan and hope to settle and practice there someday. Any other Canadians in the similar boat as me? Any advice/suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Isoprop]

I know this thread is always on the first page anyway, but I think it needs to be stickied.

 

[kogambi]

i'm a bio major grduating next year.My gpa is not good but am planning to apply to a pre med post bach program to bring my gpa up. My current gpa is 3.0,i want to bring it up to 3.4 by the time i graduate.Any suggestion on what pre med post bach to apply to with my gpa?. i live in Houston Texas, Any one familiar with UT houston post bach program..i checked it out but couuldnt find anything for premed post bach, all i saw was master programs and other stuff. pls hepl

 

[MissPiggy123]

Yes I want to get into med school but have little hope. I'm not sure if I can get into a formal post bac.

 

[DrMidlife]

Yes I want to get into med school but have little hope. I'm not sure if I can get into a formal post bac.

So I go back to the previous page about a week ago, gosh now I'm tired and will have less to say, plus I'm not feeling very much on your side because you're making me work, and I see that you're "the" 2.54 who has multiple backup plans. OK. Sorry to snark at you, but jeez. Hi!

No, you're not getting into a formal postbac with that GPA, probably not even if you're URM. Formal postbacs are competitive. Competitive means 3.5+.

If you want to go to a med school in the US, then you need to get your cumulative undergrad GPA up over 3.0 (this will take multiple years, so think 2nd bachelors). Plus you need to kill the MCAT. Plus you then will undoubtedly need an SMP. Plus you need to be interesting and mature and stand out. After all this, you'll still be sub-competitive, to be truthful. You need a comeback, and it's a big one. The odds are against you.

I recommend taking a job and putting in some years, which will be a nice thick dividing line between where you are now and where you want to be in the future. After a few years in the work force, and it doesn't really matter what you're doing as long as your parents aren't doing it for you, you'll have more maturity. Take that maturity and see if you can get an A in a math or English class at a CC. Then you're ready to think about nursing or MLT/CLT or medicine. That's my $.02.

Best of luck to you.

 

[calistar]

My gpa is HORRIBLE!!! Still it is a great desire of mine to practice medicine. I want to warn you, my stats are accompanied by a story and I am beyond the point in which I am ready for a turn around... please let me know of my options.

May 09 graduate from a top tier university (not that it matters with my dreadful grades) with a 2.34 gpa. My freshman year was mediocre (3.3) The three years following that were dreadful BUT here is my story:

My single mother passed away during my senior year of high school 3 months after being diagnosed with cancer. That year, my social life disappeared and I was focused on nothing but school ending my senior year (with no fluff classes at a nationally recognized hs) on the note of a 3.9. Freshman year. I moved to a new city, and had a difficult time adjusting, pulled off an overall of a 3.3 then comes the turmoil. I have a younger sibling and things were not going well with him in his new environment. We are 3 years apart and have always been close summer of my freshman year he moved in with me and became my responsibility (our family and support system are basically nonexistent other than one another). He was still in high school and struggling, so my "priorities" were put on hold and he became my only concern (well he and my elderly grandmother). At that point my school work performance and class attendance began to dwindle. I began seeing a therapist who concluded that I was depressed, but her initial suggestion was to begin meds and I could not accept that she would suggest that over counseling upon her initial meeting with me. Honestly, between my brother, financial hardships and doing poorly in classes I WAS extremely devastated and I agree with her diagnosis of depression.

I did graduate.I helped my brother graduate. He is now in college and I am happy with the results and feel like a load has been lifted! Now I am ready to go back and focus on MYSELF. I do realize that these things serve as a hindrance, but I want to look at them as speed bumps that have slowed me down and not road blocks, preventing me from further progress. I do know that I am capable. My poor grades stemmed from me not attending classes (lost tons of points) and being embarrassed to seek help at the time.

I decided not to pursue my sciences courses during undergrad because I was aware of the focus that I would need to succeed in these courses. I'm basically starting from square one in the science division. I have 125 credits to date.

Thank you guys so much
~Cali Girl

 

[Isoprop]

My gpa is HORRIBLE!!! Still it is a great desire of mine to practice medicine. I want to warn you, my stats are accompanied by a story and I am beyond the point in which I am ready for a turn around... please let me know of my options.

May 09 graduate from a top tier university (not that it matters with my dreadful grades) with a 2.34 gpa. My freshman year was mediocre (3.3) The three years following that were dreadful BUT here is my story:

My single mother passed away during my senior year of high school 3 months after being diagnosed with cancer. That year, my social life disappeared and I was focused on nothing but school ending my senior year (with no fluff classes at a nationally recognized hs) on the note of a 3.9. Freshman year. I moved to a new city, and had a difficult time adjusting, pulled off an overall of a 3.3 then comes the turmoil. I have a younger sibling and things were not going well with him in his new environment. We are 3 years apart and have always been close summer of my freshman year he moved in with me and became my responsibility (our family and support system are basically nonexistent other than one another). He was still in high school and struggling, so my "priorities" were put on hold and he became my only concern (well he and my elderly grandmother). At that point my school work performance and class attendance began to dwindle. I began seeing a therapist who concluded that I was depressed, but her initial suggestion was to begin meds and I could not accept that she would suggest that over counseling upon her initial meeting with me. Honestly, between my brother, financial hardships and doing poorly in classes I WAS extremely devastated and I agree with her diagnosis of depression.

I did graduate.I helped my brother graduate. He is now in college and I am happy with the results and feel like a load has been lifted! Now I am ready to go back and focus on MYSELF. I do realize that these things serve as a hindrance, but I want to look at them as speed bumps that have slowed me down and not road blocks, preventing me from further progress. I do know that I am capable. My poor grades stemmed from me not attending classes (lost tons of points) and being embarrassed to seek help at the time.

I decided not to pursue my sciences courses during undergrad because I was aware of the focus that I would need to succeed in these courses. I'm basically starting from square one in the science division. I have 125 credits to date.

Thank you guys so much
~Cali Girl

You absolutely need to take some post-bacc classes and get your prereqs done (bio, chem, physics, ochem). Plan on at least 4 semesters worth of post-bacc. With an A- average (3.7) and 16 credits per semester, that'll raise your GPA to

(125)(2.34) + (3.7)(4)(16) = 529.3 points
529.3/(125 + (16)(4)) = 2.80 GPA

With a 4.0 average, it jumps to 2.90. Still bad, but the odds increase a LOT.

Note that MD schools average retakes while DO schools replaces grades. So your GPA for DO schools may be even higher IF YOU RETAKE CLASSES.

From this point, you need to take the MCAT. Once you receive your scores, you will have to make a decision.

Good scores (30ish plus or maybe higher?): Special Masters Program and then apply
Mediocre scores (upper 20's): Caribbean MD if you don't retake.

It will take at least 2 years for you to apply to med school if things go well for you.

 

[Isoprop]

I also want to point out that since your science GPA is more pliable, then your science GPA will skyrocket if you do well! Your GPA could look like this: OA: 2.85 sciGPA 3.85

This will give adcoms a double-take and take a closer look at your application. This will be your chance to explain yourself and demonstrate why your recent grades are more indicative of your academic capacity. This is especially true if you have a high MCAT score.

 

[calistar]

I also want to point out that since your science GPA is more pliable, then your science GPA will skyrocket if you do well! Your GPA could look like this: OA: 2.85 sciGPA 3.85

This will give adcoms a double-take and take a closer look at your application. This will be your chance to explain yourself and demonstrate why your recent grades are more indicative of your academic capacity. This is especially true if you have a high MCAT score.

Thank you!!! I appreciate your input and am definitely starting an informal post bacc as well as planning to apply for an smp in the future. Two years is a better outlook than I had. My goal is to get into med school by 28 which gives me six year to work my @ss off!

 

[Isoprop]

Good luck and update us on your progress.

 

[shouldvestudied]

I graduated (by the skin of my teeth) last June from a top 3 University after withdrawing twice (once due to a medical emergency, once due to depression/academic failure) with an abysmally low GPA: cGPA-2.5 sGPA-2.4.

Since graduating I have self-studied for the MCAT and am consistently in the 39-41 range on the MCAT practice tests. I plan on taking the exam formally next month.

Given my horrendous GPA, it follows that I need to do a few post-bacc semesters. I would assume that I'm not ready for a SMP (not much volunteering, no upward trend yet), but if you think otherwise please let me know. If I am able to go 40+ on the MCAT, how much more would I need to bring my GPA up to be considered for any Med School?

Also, since my degree was in Molecular Biology, most of the available science post-bacc classes can I take would overlap with ones I've already completed. Is it okay to take these classes, or should I try to find classes that are new for me? Perhaps it would actually be better to take the overlapping classes to show marked improvement?


Thank you for your help.

 

[shouldvestudied]

3.0 is generally the required but I'd say at least 60 credits of a strong upper trend. I'd advise possibly if you can handle it, Harvard Extension program because UPenn Special Sciences might be a bit more competitive to get into. My advice would probably be do 1-2 years of strong postbac and if you still need it then do an SMP, assuming you get that MCAT score.

And would it be a good idea to retake the science classes I did poorly in, or focus on taking classes covering new topics? I don't have a preference between MD and DO schools, and I think I remember reading that DO programs allow grade replacement?

Thank you very much for your help.

 

[Perrotfish]

Given my horrendous GPA, it follows that I need to do a few post-bacc semesters. I would assume that I'm not ready for a SMP (not much volunteering, no upward trend yet), but if you think otherwise please let me know. If I am able to go 40+ on the MCAT, how much more would I need to bring my GPA up to be considered for any Med School?

Also, since my degree was in Molecular Biology, most of the available science post-bacc classes can I take would overlap with ones I've already completed. Is it okay to take these classes, or should I try to find classes that are new for me? Perhaps it would actually be better to take the overlapping classes to show marked improvement?

An actual 40+ MCAT score is EXTREMELY rare, and the combination of a top 40 MCAT score with a 2.5 cGPA is so rare that I don't think we really know how to advise you. There just aren't enough people with that mix of scores to set any kind of precendent. What we can say for sure is that with a 3.0 and a 40 you'd be a shoe in for an SMP followed by very good medical school. Even with a 2.8 and a 40 you'd have an excellent shot at a top SMP.

Honestly, with a 40 you MIGHT be able to get into a DO school with only an extra year of work, no SMP necessary. And of course you could probably start at the Caribbean as early as next fall. Now, of course, that means you could fail out of the Caribbean as early as a year from now, if you haven't resolved your academic issues.

As for what classes to take: if you want MD schools take new classes, if you're fine with DO schools retake classes.

The big question, really, is whether or not you've resolved the problems that got you the low GPA in the first place. Medical school isn't going to be free of either personal drama or anxiety. Is the post-bac really going to go differently from Undergrad?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I graduated (by the skin of my teeth) last June from a top 3 University after withdrawing twice (once due to a medical emergency, once due to depression/academic failure) with an abysmally low GPA: cGPA-2.5 sGPA-2.4.

Since graduating I have self-studied for the MCAT and am consistently in the 39-41 range on the MCAT practice tests. I plan on taking the exam formally next month.

Given my horrendous GPA, it follows that I need to do a few post-bacc semesters. I would assume that I'm not ready for a SMP (not much volunteering, no upward trend yet), but if you think otherwise please let me know. If I am able to go 40+ on the MCAT, how much more would I need to bring my GPA up to be considered for any Med School?

Also, since my degree was in Molecular Biology, most of the available science post-bacc classes can I take would overlap with ones I've already completed. Is it okay to take these classes, or should I try to find classes that are new for me? Perhaps it would actually be better to take the overlapping classes to show marked improvement?


Thank you for your help.

i didn't know the mcat was offered in october.

 

[Isoprop]

From 2005 to 2007, 100 (exactly) people applied below a 2.6 with a 39+ MCAT score.

Only 1 got in.

Just FYI.

 

[3 point 14]

So I want to go to medical school. I have an ugly first 3 years of college, with GPA as low as 2.2 and having to retake 3 classes. I also have 2 C's, both of them general chemistry. I had not planned on doing anything scientific and just needed a degree for a job I had. I changed my mind during the fall semester of 08 and have gotten 3.5's since then. I should get a 4.0 this semester. I just took the GRE and did very well.

I heard about SMP programs and the possibility of helping someone in my position. I have a few specific questions regarding them and later medical school applications. I graduate this spring.

1)If I want to get into an SMP program starting in fall 2010, I need to take the MCAT by January. I am in my first ochem class this semester; however I have all other requirements done. I am a very good test taker and think I can pull off a 30 without a doubt. Does sending in my application this late put me at a significant disadvantage? Would I be better off to wait until next year?
2)I live in California and would like to go to medical school in Cali. Obviously, they are very hard to get into. I volunteered in a classroom twice a week for a whole semester, but other than that I do not have any volunteer work. If this is my set goal, would it be recommended that I take another year to boost my volunteer side as well as increase my MCAT (ie studying all summer and taking it fall 2010).
3)How competitive for SMP's are my numbers? Should I expect to get in the first application process? The specific program I am looking at is Georgetown.

Summary:
-3.1-3.2 GPA with last 2 semesters 3.5, 3.5
-President of a student organization (2009-2010)
~30 hrs volunteer work
-1 year of research
-1390 general GRE (verbal + quantitative) with 800 mathematics portion

Thanks so much for your help.

 

[DrMidlife]

1)If I want to get into an SMP program starting in fall 2010, I need to take the MCAT by January.

Not necessarily - some programs will take the GRE pending an MCAT score.

I am in my first ochem class this semester; however I have all other requirements done. I am a very good test taker and think I can pull off a 30 without a doubt.

Famous last words. Make sure you've read the guidance in the MCAT forum.

Does sending in my application this late put me at a significant disadvantage? Would I be better off to wait until next year?

You don't have to apply late. Apply as soon as the apps are open (as early as October) with your GRE score. You'll get your MCAT score in late February or so, and then you'll send this in as an update (with new great grades on a fresh transcript).

2)I live in California and would like to go to medical school in Cali. Obviously, they are very hard to get into.

The California schools don't support same-year SMP apps. Which means that there's no point in applying until the end of your SMP year. So your big fat goal will be to have all your app assets in stellar shape on June 1 after your SMP.

In your shoes I'd definitely be looking at an admissions consultant. The UCs/USC/Stanford/Scripps are insanely competitive. Try Judy Colwell or MedEdits. Start now so that you have help with SMP apps (which require the same materials as MD apps).

I volunteered in a classroom twice a week for a whole semester, but other than that I do not have any volunteer work. If this is my set goal, would it be recommended that I take another year to boost my volunteer side as well as increase my MCAT (ie studying all summer and taking it fall 2010).

You absolutely have to have clinical experience. Where you smell patients. I strongly recommend that you go, right now, to the web page for the biggest, craziest local hospital and fill out a volunteer application and get yourself a 4 hr/wk gig, and keep doing this gig indefinitely. Take advantage of every opportunity to shadow physicians you meet along the way. You have no credibility as an SMP or med school applicant without clinical exposure. You'll want to have hundreds of hours of clinical volunteering to not stick out in a bad way. Note that the average UC applicant is going to have ridiculous ECs that include published research and working in clinics for the homeless and doing international clinic work.

You'll be fine for applying to an SMP this coming year if you start volunteering now and emphasize that you've prioritized this activity. If you keep volunteering during your SMP (and look for more compelling opportunities during your SMP), I think you'll be alright.

3)How competitive for SMP’s are my numbers? Should I expect to get in the first application process? The specific program I am looking at is Georgetown.

Just like with med school apps, you need to apply to SMPs early and broadly. You're probably fine for Gtown. Educate yourself about the upsides and downsides of the various SMPs: you might not be setting yourself up to succeed in DC in a class of 182, compared with other programs. Be your own best advocate.

Also start working on faculty recommendations now, which you'll need for your SMP apps. The average SMP applicant has an existing (failed) MD application in hand when they apply, so just act like you're applying to med school when you apply to SMPs.

If you haven't seen it, here's a list of more than 80 GPA enhancer programs, including all the known SMPs: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=640302

Best of luck to you.

 

[3 point 14]

That was an awesome reply. Thank you very much. One question:

"The California schools don't support same-year SMP apps. Which means that there's no point in applying until the end of your SMP year. So your big fat goal will be to have all your app assets in stellar shape on June 1 after your SMP."

So If I get into 2010-2011 SMP, finishing in June 2011, the earliest I would be able to start a Cali med school is Fall 2012, correct? Alternatively, I could do a same year app for schools that accept them and possibly start med school Fall 2011?

Thanks again, Ill get on the application help and volunteer work.

 

[DrMidlife]

So If I get into 2010-2011 SMP, finishing in June 2011, the earliest I would be able to start a Cali med school is Fall 2012, correct?

Correct, and given the intense competition against your comback app, you'd be smart to plan on needing 2 app cycles to get in to a UC.

Alternatively, I could do a same year app for schools that accept them and possibly start med school Fall 2011?

Correct, and this is the hair-raising end-game that I'm in with all the other current SMP students. A same-year SMP app means that you're late with competitive credentials, and any interviews you get are late, which means planning to find out VERY late what school (if any) you're going to.

The rough timeline for same-year apps:
- have all your app assets tidy except for the SMP
- - killer MCAT score before you start the SMP
- - killer ECs & LORs in hand before you start the SMP
- apply early and broadly (June 1, 25+ schools is reasonable)
- - apply to state schools (if you're not in CA)
- - apply to all the schools that host SMPs (Gtown, Cinn, EVMS, Loyola etc.)
- - apply to any school that is likely to be interested in you (regional, rural etc.)
- finish secondary apps before you start the SMP
- - make sure to talk about how you're enrolled in an SMP
- as soon as you matriculate in the SMP get a letter from the program director & send it to all your schools (even if they've already rejected you)
- as soon as you have 1st semester grades, get & send out:
- - transcript
- - another letter from the dean/director
- - an LOR from SMP faculty
- now it's January and you might start getting interview invites
- interview late, maybe as late as April
- beseech schools that rejected you to reconsider now that your SMP performance has proven something
- sit on waiting list
- send out final SMP transcripts and anything new & fun you can
- find out (maybe the week before school starts) that you got off a waitlist

Look for stories in this forum (such as the Gtown thread) from folks who did well in this process (like JD).

 

[Looking Glass]

Dr. Midlife is right on the money. Apply to medical school the same year you're doing an SMP only if all the conditions that she listed have been met. Otherwise, it's a waste of time and money to be spending $2000 on applications and all that time to work on secondaries when you should be fully plowing through your courseworks.

 

[tierras]

d

 

[3 point 14]

Thanks again DrMidlife! 😀

 

[bel15]

I'd do a postbac or SMP of some sort. You might stand a shot cuz your GPA. you would be screened out of some schools but still looked at fine by others. It depends on the school.

i'm pretty sure you count as an under-represented minority, so that may help in addition to the good mcat score

 

[yoyoyoyoyoyo12]

so my gpa when i graduate this year will be at highest 3.3 and sGPA at 3.0/3.1. im taking my mcats in january, if i can get into an SMP would i still have a shot at MD? or are my chances only to apply to DO schools? my transcript doesn't look too great...i have a c-, a c, and an f from previous semesters.

 

[Perrotfish]

so my gpa when i graduate this year will be at highest 3.3 and sGPA at 3.0/3.1. im taking my mcats in january, if i can get into an SMP would i still have a shot at MD? or are my chances only to apply to DO schools? my transcript doesn't look too great...i have a c-, a c, and an f from previous semesters.

1) If you went to an SMP, and then did very well in that SMP, yes you would have a real shot at an MD school

2) If you improved your GPA a bit, you would have a shot at getting into medical school without the SMP.

 

[pollyannaish]

Hello everyone,

Although I have been a member on this site for a few months now, this is my first ever post. I realize that many of us struggle with the fear of getting shorthanded by Medical schools owing to our low UG GPA's, but I have additional hurdles to overcome than just my low GPA.

I am an international student who came down to the US to pursue a Bachelor of Fine Arts (BFA)majoring in Graphic Design. Shortly after my graduation, with an overall GPA of 3.18 (no sGPA since I did not need to take any of the Science required courses) I became interested in combining design with human psychology (I believe human behavior plays a huge role in any user centric design). Unable to find a job for the longest time given my visa restrictions I decided to volunteer my time at a company designing educational applications for children with learning and mental disorders. The opportunity also lead to a Research Assistant position working with children struggling in school. It was an intensely gratifying process, I would be lying if I said it was only the act of boosting the confidence of these children that touched me, it was a combination of that and a sense of personal satisfaction, a selfish side effect. This growing new-found euphoria augmented my interest in understanding the human mind, so I took classes in Psychology at the Harvard Summer School. Following these courses I was convinced of my passion for both human service and going to medical school. In my case, I never really had a childhood dream of becoming a doctor but rather a path filled with both personal and professional experiences that have lead me to my current decision.

Today, I am 30 years old and work full-time, recently undertook classes in English, Pre Calc and Calculus (B+ average). I am looking at post baccalaureate programs that will help me improve my UG GPA and fulfill the Science prerequisites required for Medical school applications. Although, my research has revealed that as an international student I would require excellent credentials to get admissions into an US medical school, which I clearly lack as of now. Adding insult to injury, some med schools don't even entertain international students. Although I am determined to go to a school here in the US, hence I would really appreciate any advice or suggestions you guys might have with respect to how I can go about making myself appear as a suitable candidate for med school.

- Is a post bacc program enough or should I also consider an SMP program to boost my GPA further?
- I have cntacted a few professors for RA positions, will this help?
- What other areas should I highlight to make my UG GPA appear less important?
- I love the Bryn Mawr Post bacc program but realistically speaking what are my chances of getting into Pre Med program there with a 3.18 GPA? What can I do to strengthen my application?

I know I have a rather long and dragging post, but honestly I couldn't help myself! 🙂 Hope to hear back from others in a similar situation or otherwise.

 

[tmntdonjuan]

I keep hearing that almost every allopathic school will automatically screen for below 3.0 cGPA. So if someone has a sub 3.0 undergrad GPA (2.85), a good SMP GPA (3.8), good MCAT (mid 30's), and applies very broadly (30+ schools, all lower tier), the odds of them getting in to allopathic medical school are still unlikely? How would schools even screen? Not bothering to give you a secondary or dumping you after they take your money?

 

[DrMidlife]

I keep hearing that almost every allopathic school will automatically screen for below 3.0 cGPA. So if someone has a sub 3.0 undergrad GPA (2.85), a good SMP GPA (3.8), good MCAT (mid 30's), and applies very broadly (30+ schools, all lower tier), the odds of them getting in to allopathic medical school are still unlikely? How would schools even screen? Not bothering to give you a secondary or dumping you after they take your money?

When you do an SMP the host school typically does two things to help during MD app season:
1. the host school helps get you into the host school (or at least interviewed)
2. the host school helps you figure out what other schools to apply to (the ones who have heard of the host school's SMP)

Also, your state school(s) is/are always your best bet, unless you're in CA or maybe NY. If your GPA is below their cut, they'll likely give you a second look anyway to ensure fairness (and prevent "my property taxes pay for this school" kinds of lawsuits from your parents).

All this said, I'd avoid having a sub-3.0 undergrad GPA (overall or science) if at all possible, before starting an SMP. If it's fixable, for the love of all that's holy, fix it.

Best of luck to you.

 

[tmntdonjuan]

When you do an SMP the host school typically does two things to help during MD app season:
1. the host school helps get you into the host school (or at least interviewed)
2. the host school helps you figure out what other schools to apply to (the ones who have heard of the host school's SMP)

Also, your state school(s) is/are always your best bet, unless you're in CA or maybe NY. If your GPA is below their cut, they'll likely give you a second look anyway to ensure fairness (and prevent "my property taxes pay for this school" kinds of lawsuits from your parents).

All this said, I'd avoid having a sub-3.0 undergrad GPA (overall or science) if at all possible, before starting an SMP. If it's fixable, for the love of all that's holy, fix it.

Best of luck to you.

Well that sucks for me because I'm from CA. My question is if a school were to screen me for my sub-3.0 undergrad gpa, would it be before or after sending me a secondary?

 

[DrMidlife]

Well that sucks for me because I'm from CA. My question is if a school were to screen me for my sub-3.0 undergrad gpa, would it be before or after sending me a secondary?

Varies by school. Varies a lot. Plenty of schools send you a secondary before they've ever seen your app (Gtown, Boston, Cincinnati come to mind: all SMP schools). A couple of DO schools, in '07, seemed to "discover" my GPA during my interview.

You can assume that you'll have a very low return on time and money invested, school by school. I'm not trying to be an ass; I've been through it. Ideally you'd focus on getting an acceptance and not sweat what it takes to get it. 30+ apps sounds about right.

Personally I wouldn't be trying to get into a UC at all with a sub-3.0, unless you've got some insane ECs, and maybe a tribal affiliation, to go with that 3.8 in an SMP. Also you can't do same-year-as-SMP apps with the UCs.

If you want better odds, gotta do more undergrad. And even then there are no guarantees.

Best of luck to you.

 

[dapmp91]

Are DO SMP's a bit more lenient on a subpar GPA (both cumulative and science) say about 3.0 GPA right on?

 

[Koukla18]

I see everyone is commenting on their post bacc gpas, but are they from structured programs? or is everyone just taking these classes at a local college or university?

I attended two colleges, the first one I didn't do very well in OA= around 2.3, and the second I graduated with a 2.9. I know it will be cheaper, but does it look any better/worse to take the remaining classes at a local school or a formal program?

Thanks for any advice!

 

[DrMidlife]

I see everyone is commenting on their post bacc gpas, but are they from structured programs? or is everyone just taking these classes at a local college or university?

I attended two colleges, the first one I didn't do very well in OA= around 2.3, and the second I graduated with a 2.9. I know it will be cheaper, but does it look any better/worse to take the remaining classes at a local school or a formal program?

Thanks for any advice!

Doesn't matter. Pick a school where you will be successful, and then go get straight A's no matter what.

Generally with a GPA comeback, just avoid community colleges, online coursework, or schools on accreditation probation.

 

[violence]

2.8 BCPM and 2.8 overall. Staying an extra year (this school year) to take more classes before I graduate. Am currently applying to post-bacs/SMPs. Just found out that some post bac apps are already open, which is really frustrating since I thought I had rock solid knowledge that they only become available in December at the earliest, which would mean a completed January app would enable me to include my 1st quarter grades (2 of which are retakes for past C's). Just got my MCAT score, 24 🙁. I need to apply to post bacs though because i've been in school since 2003 now (no breaks) and I really need to move ahead in life. Am trying to be very specific, want to do post bac/SMP then go to Western (DO) for med school (ultimate goal I guess).

Lookin for any advice... 🙁

 

[crx7]

Little known Post Bacc program:
UT San Antonio(UTHSCSA) has a 2 year Master's in Anatomy program. One of my MS1 classmates used the program and get gets to skip Anatomy and Histology this year. Really good people to work with in the Anatomy Department and lots of MS1 interaction.

 

[SoccerChica]

I'm (22y.o. going on 23y.o.) in my last year of undergrad - def. not traditional route: started at UCSD, transferred to community college and got Associate's, then to GMU for Bachelor's. I am right now finishing my BS Biology (concentration in Microbiology) as well as a Chemistry minor (10 credits this semester and 11 next semester) at GMU. Two years at UCSD were terrible for a variety of reasons and seriously killed my GPA.

Currently (with 21 credit hours left):
cGPA: 2.7
sGPA: 2.5
MCAT: 10BS; 11VR; 8PS (29R)*
(Planning to retake my MCAT's in 2010)
*Had Mono when I took it; I was averaging 35/36 on practice tests prior to getting sick. I didn't void score & retake since I was out of the country afterwards.

I have excellent LORs (one of which is from a member of GTown's Med School Faculty); 5+ years significant work experience in doctor's office, 5+ years of volunteering in major hospital (2+ in ER), various clubs, etc. Also, writing is a big strength and my pre-med advisor/professors have said my personal statement is one of the best they've ever read. My 10+11 credits remaining are all Science except for Intro to Psych and Intro to Sociology.

I'm trying to figure out where I should be going from here. My parents are paying for everything - problem is they are absolutely set on me going into Internal Med. Therefore, they think Caribbean schools are the best bet for me. I, on the other hand, with my experiences in the ER and at work (Nephrology) am much more interested in Gen. Surgery (at least right now). From the research I've done, (provided I get in) it seems like Caribbean schools will pretty much lock me into IM since they seriously limit my choices for residencies. If I can give them a realistic plan for getting into a US school within 2-3 years...they are willing to pay for everything.

It seems like SMP is the best bet...but I'm wondering if I could even get into any of those - especially Georgetown (which has always been my dream school)? Or are there other/better options for me besides SMP? Should I be bringing up my undergrad GPA with some sort of post-bacc program?
Any and all suggestions/advice would be appreciated!

 

[santiajj]

Never mind.http://www.hsc.unt.edu/Education/gsbs/medicalsciences.cfm

 

[noorlight]

Hello Everyone,

I am sure most of our situations are similar on this thread, and I am hoping for some advice as to what I should be doing or what route should I take.

I am 23y/o and I graduated about a year ago from a local University. I was a premed student, however I was what most may say a Dumb@**, I did not have great study skills, and I ended up with real poor grades by the time I graduated. I really have no legitimate excuse as to why I did so poorly during my UG.

Degree: Sociology, Minor Chem
Science GPA: 2.3
Overall GPA: 2.65

I have taken the MCAT 2 years ago and I scored a 32Q, however I applied to very few schools due to my poor grades I knew for a fact I would not get in anywhere.

I have amazing EC's, (Don't want to bore you all with details), I have been jumping back in forth from Pharmacy, Law school, and now back to medicine. My real passion is medicine, and I love everything about it. I have been backing away from it due to my situation with poor grades, however I don't think my grades should turn me away from my dream of becoming a doctor.

Now should I do a Post-bacc at a local university here, and retake all of my premeds, and than perhaps apply for an SMP after or medschool afterwards?

I have thought about DO and Carribean, but I wanted to give the U.S. Allopathic schools a couple more tries, I believe I am still young and I really don't care if I end up getting into medschool by the time I am 26 or so. I am confused as to what I should be doing right now, to prepare for next years or 2011 application cycle.

I would appreciate any advice, on what you guys think would be best for anyone in my position to take and pursue.

I apologize for the lengthy message,

Thanks.

 

[SpaceDoc18]

Off topic, but I'd put money that the students who struggle (meeting med school stat requirements), along with having a very thorough education (GPA aside, such as double degrees, vast community service/shadowing hrs,...etc) turn out to be VERY GOOD DOCTORS.

 

[noorlight]

Do a postbac for abotu 40-60 credits and do real well i.e. mostly As.

So, since I have completed all of my pre-reqs, and have done some upper division science courses, is it still necessary for me to retake all of my pre-reqs again.

Or should I just take some upper division science courses? The problem i am seeing with my Transcript, is that I have taken over 165 creadit hours, and I know it will take me at minimum at least 60 credit hours to get my science GPA to barely a 3.0 range.

Also, earlier on this thread I have read posts where people have been saying getting another UG degree is a better option rather than a masters, is this really true?

 

[Krab]

Hey guys, gonna throw my stats down and see what you guys think. I would like to do an SMP and eventually go back to my home state of Illinois for allopathic medical school.

I am currently a senior at Boston University

Sci GPA: 2.50
Non-Sci GPA: 3.15
Cumulative 2.7
MCAT 28Q: 10WR, 9PS, 9BS, Q

I was sick for most of undergrad, especially sophomore year through junior year. I had kidney failure and was in and out of the hospital weekly. During one calendar year, I was at the hospital over fifty times. I became very depressed due to the health issues, but now that my health issues have been resolved I am completely fine.

2nd semester of junior year GPA: 3.7 (The first semester that everything was resolved)

I think I am capable of getting a 4.0 for all of senior year, which would put my cumulative GPA at a little bit over 3.0 for my undergrad years. My last four exams scores: 100 (avg=65), 100 (avg=74), 92 (avg=79), 98.2 (avg=75). I am taking all upper level biology courses right now.

I will have excellent LOR, already have two professors and a few doctors that want to write them for me.

ECs
180+ hours volunteering at local hospital
100+ hours of shadowing a orthopaedic surgeon
Three months of research at a Northwestern lab
President of a public health club for two years (worked out of hospital)
Published twice
Travelled to South America four times (for ten days each time) for medical mission work

Please help me out, I'd ideally like to apply right to an SMP this year to start in 2010.

Thank you,
Krab

 

[DrMidlife]

So, since I have completed all of my pre-reqs, and have done some upper division science courses, is it still necessary for me to retake all of my pre-reqs again.

You only need to retake prereqs if you got less than a C. You might want to retake them if you're not solid enough on the material to succeed on the MCAT.

Or should I just take some upper division science courses? The problem i am seeing with my Transcript, is that I have taken over 165 creadit hours, and I know it will take me at minimum at least 60 credit hours to get my science GPA to barely a 3.0 range.

Take classes that are going to have the most impact on your GPA. Which probably means science. Note that if you go take a bunch of nursing school prereqs, it will raise eyebrows, not in a good way, so think upper div science like immunology, microbiology etc. If you can work up to a full time load of upper div science, and get straight A's, that would be the "upward trend" that some med schools look for.

Also, earlier on this thread I have read posts where people have been saying getting another UG degree is a better option rather than a masters, is this really true?

Traditional graduate work does nothing to help a low undergrad GPA. Grad work isn't standardized and it doesn't make up for low undergrad numbers.

A special masters program, where you do med school to prove you can do med school, is a way to address low undergrad GPA. SMPs are expensive and risky. See the bazillion posts in this forum for more info.

Getting a 2nd bachelors has benefits that have nothing to do with improving your med school app. The benefits are things like access to federal financial aid, registration priority, access to clubs, etc. If you sign up to do a 2nd bachelors, you have to complete it - med school acceptance letters specifically state that you have to finish whatever you're doing. (You can petition for an exception.) The downside is that you have to do whatever your major department requires, whether it helps you get into med school or not. Such as botany or the study of archaea.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Hey guys, gonna throw my stats down and see what you guys think.

If you can 4.0 your senior year and get your cumulative over 3.0, that's pretty much fine for SMPs, but your MCAT and science GPAs are still low for good SMPs. So I'd vote for you to retake the MCAT, but not at the expense of your senior year 4.0. For fall 2010 SMPs you'd want your new MCAT score in hand by April at the latest. Too soon. Furthermore, your GPA won't be good enough for SMPs until June - too late.

Which means you might want to slow down. Maybe add a 5th year to your degree program. You should be taking almost all upper div science from here out, regardless.

My premise is that you should start an SMP with all your assets tidy (except for your GPA). Or you'll just need a gap year on the other side, to tidy your assets.

Start working on your personal statement now. You'll want lots of feedback on how you present your story. Play the kidney card, but play it right.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Hey Dr. Midlife,
I've looked into a lot of SMP's and for most of the ones that require the MCAT, their minimum is pretty low (can't remember specifics off the top of my head). Shouldn't a 28 be good enough?
Just as an example, the EVMS Medical Master's Program requires a 26 minimum score. Are we talking minimums here or what just makes you competitive (particularly, for a good SMP)?

You'll find that people don't have both a low MCAT and a low GPA going into the SMPs that have high med school acceptance rates. You'll also find that the competition for SMPs is intense, and increasing. Take a look at the EVMS, Gtown, Cincinnati threads here to see folks getting waitlisted with better stats than yours (or mine).

Furthermore, if you'll be trying to get into a med school other than the SMP host school, you'll need everything you can get. You can't do much about your GPA, but your MCAT score is something you can change.

Keep in mind that a GPA of 3.0 is about .6 or .7 under the accepted average, and that an MCAT of 28 is 3-4 points under the average, nationwide. Regardless of your SMP performance, these numbers are the topline, first-seen items on your med school app and you'll be expected to answer for them. See my other posts about how it feels (like having a dumptruck full of dog poo backed onto you) to go to an interview and find yourself sitting in front of an administrator who expects you to talk about every grade under a B you've ever received. Oy.

Best of luck to you.

 

[ciruelo]

Hi guys, so my GPA isn't horrible, but it's gone a little bit down as I progressed through college to the point where I'm a little worried. I went to Columbia for undergrad. Here are my stats:

3.49 gpa
3.30 science gpa
haven't taken my mcat yet...last practice test I got a 29
average ECs and research, I guess
I'm doing a health education program working at a high school for the next two years

Do I need to boost my gpa somehow? Thanks for any responses

 

[docjeff7]

Wow, glad there's others like me.

I'm 22. at Texas A&M. I have about a 2.7 right now. And a friend I've been competitive with my whole life got a 35 mCAT, so i assume I could get b/twn a 34-36. I will graduate in August, then stick around for a year finishing physics and maybe retaking some lower level biology's or something to boost my science gpa. I plan on either praying and getting into school by 25, and if not weighing options and trying the Caribbean. What you guys think?