The Official DDS/PhD or DMD/PhD Thread

[a2ndragoon89]

Here is an update to PhD programs related to dentistry. Enjoy.

Updated list of schools with dedicated funding mechanisms for DDS/PhD students:
http://www.aadronline.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3556#.V9aWbpMrLdQ

School that offer DDS/PhD:

University of Michigan - http://www.dent.umich.edu/phd/home/prospectives/admission/dual
University of California, San Francisco - http://dentistry.ucsf.edu/admissions/dental-scientist-training-program-dds/phd
University of California, Los Angeles - https://www.dentistry.ucla.edu/learning/ddsphd-degree
University of Minnesota - http://www.dentistry.umn.edu/programs-admissions/advanced-programs/oral-biology/curriculum/dds-phd/index.htm
Indiana University - https://www.dentistry.iu.edu/index.php?cID=524
University of Texas Health Science Center, San Antonio - http://costar.uthscsa.edu/DDS_PhD.php
Stony Brook - http://dentistry.stonybrookmedicine.edu/dentalresearch/students/graduate/dds
University of Washington - http://dental.washington.edu/prospective-students/ddsphd/
The Ohio State University - https://dentistry.osu.edu/prospective-students/dual-degree-ddsphd
University of Maryland - https://www.dental.umaryland.edu/research/graduate-programs/combined-dds-phd-program/
Baylor Dental College TexasA&M - http://bcd.tamhsc.edu/academic/degreeprograms.html
University of Connecticut - http://sdm.uchc.edu/programs/advanced/t90/dmd_phd.html
University of Illinois, Chicago - https://dentistry.uic.edu/programs/phd-oral-sciences
University of Florida - http://admissions.dental.ufl.edu/d-m-d/combined-programs/d-m-d-ph-d/
Medical University of South Carolina - http://academicdepartments.musc.edu/tcohr/dstp/index.htm
University of Alabama at Birmingham - http://catalog.uab.edu/graduate/schoolofdentistry/
University of Louisville - http://louisville.edu/dentistry/degrees/oralbiology/dmd-phd
University of Rochester-University of Puerto Rico collaboration - https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/urmc...ucation/documents/mufinalrevised6-18-2010.pdf
An article on dual degree education - http://www.jdentaled.org/content/70/9/909.abstract
Newer article on dual degree education - http://jdr.sagepub.com/content/92/12/1053.full.pdf+html

Dental related PhD programs
These programs mentioned above also have PhD track or MS/PhD tracks. Some schools only offer PhD in Oral Biology/Oral Health/ Oral Sciences. Geared towards Dentist-scientist training or those with an inherent interest in oral biology
Harvard - http://hsdm.harvard.edu/phd-biological-sciences-dental-medicine
Boston University - http://www.bu.edu/academics/sdm/programs/oral-biology/phd/
University of Pittsburgh - http://www.dental.pitt.edu/phd-program-oral-biology
University of Rochester - http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/center-oral-biology/graduate-education/
University of Missouri-Kansas City - http://dentistry.umkc.edu/oralbio/InterdisciplinaryPhD.shtml
University of Medicine and Dentistry at New Jersey - http://njms.umdnj.edu/gsbs/academic_programs/phd/oral_biology/index.htm
Georgia Regents University - http://www.gru.edu/dentalmedicine/oralbio/
University of North Carolina - http://www.dentistry.unc.edu/academic/ade/obio/admissionsinformation.cfm
University of Buffalo - http://dental.buffalo.edu/Education/AdvancedEducation/OralBiologyPhDEDIT.aspx
University of Southern California - http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/graduate/

 

[Cello]

I'm very interested in Michigan's DDS/PhD program, but I haven't had much time to research it with midterms and I only just learned about it recently. Some questions for you though.

-Are the GPA / DAT requirements more stringent than for the DDS program alone?
-How do they manage to squeeze in all of the PhD coursework / rotations / research / benchwork / etc. in only 2 years beyond the DDS?
-Is it true that the program is tuition free, or is there a catch (i.e. large fees, or a service commitment of some kind within the state of Michigan)?

Thanks!

 

[a2ndragoon89]

Michigan:

1) A lot of your candidates have really high GPAs. 3.7 - 4.0 and 21AA DAT. All have a strong desire to do research, and have several years of meaningful research experience. For both the PhD and the DDS/PhD. We have lots of international candidates that apply, whom already have their DDS.
2) To be honest, we're like guinea pigs for our curriculum. We're expected to be in lab full-time, taking 2-3 grad courses a semester, along with 1-2 DDS classes a term as well. Our rotations can be however long you need them to be, but span typically 4-5 months each. We do prelims after the first year and a half, and are required to submit an F30 application afterwards.
3) Tuition is 100% free. We have a variety of funding mechanisms that cover our DDS/PhD students. However, if you're going to do this for the "free ride", you'd have a hard time being happy in our program. You really have to have an inherent interest to do research, whether you will go into academia or industry. There is no catch or service commitment. After the program you're free to pursue your career in anything you wish.

 

[Cello]

I'm extremely interested in research, cancer research specifically as that's what I'm involved with currently. The problem for me is that I had a low undergrad GPA (~3.3) which I am attempting to remedy with the d-school pre-reqs. I had no intention of doing ANY kind of grad school when I was an undergrad, which is a shame, but I suppose it's a cross I must now bare for being such a myopic youngster.

I hope to have a ~3.5 cGPA, ~3.7 sGPA, and ~3.75 BCP by the time I finish here, would that be enough to get a foot in the door for these types of programs (Michigan specifically)? Haven't taken the DAT yet, but like anyone I hope to do well!

 

[a2ndragoon89]

If you can do that, I'm sure my program would be forgiving of your previous grades. Make sure it's done and do extremely well on the DAT. For experience, if you have meaningful research experience, you should be a solid candidate fore DDS/PhD programs. Many of the professors from the dental school have a strong focus in oral-related and bone related cancers.

http://www.dent.umich.edu/phd/home/current/documents

 

[r2thekesh]

A2ndragoon89,

Did you apply/interview at any other programs? Can you comment on those?

 

[a2ndragoon89]

Yes,

I applied to UCSF, UCLA, and Michigan specifically for the DDS/PhD program. I was rejected from UCSF, heard no news from UCLA, and accepted at Michigan. It was basically down to Michigan's DDS/PhD program and UPenn's DDS program. After my acceptances to both.

For pure DDS programs, I received interviews from UPenn (Accepted, declined), UNLV (interviewed and withdrew), ASDOH (interviewed and withdrew), MWU-AZ (interview invite and withdrew), Western U (interview invite and withdrew), Tufts (interview invite and withdrew), Temple (rejected), NYU (no word back), UOP (rejected), Boston University (rejected).

DDS interviews are odd and I can't say why I received interviews at some schools and not others, etc.

In hindsight, I probably should have applied to more DDS/PhD programs, but I'm very happy where I am at now. Currently on my third lab rotation looking at induced pluripotent stem cells and how we can maintain their "stemness" in tissue culture and what molecular signals are required for this process of self-renewal.

 

[r2thekesh]

Thanks! As a research nerd, I totally am wishing I am where you are now. Hopefully soon. If you had a year off between undergrad and your program, what would you recommend doing? I'm between teaching Kaplan/working for a DNA sequencing company, taking more classes, or working for a pharmaceutical company.

 

[a2ndragoon89]

I did take a year off before I entered my program. I was a research specialist at NeuroMab at UC Davis. My project was to make recombinant monoclonal antibodies from bacterial plasmids versus hybridoma clones which are really, really expensive to maintain because liquid nitrogen is so expensive. If you have a chance to do a meaningful research project, it would help your chances at DDS/PhD programs around the nation. GPA and DAT is certainly important, but the biggest factor is your research experience, what you've accomplished, and your drive to be a scientist, whether in academia or industry.

 

[UCLAzy]

wow that article you linked is egregiously out of date!

 

[a2ndragoon89]

i wish i could have found a more up-to-date one, but that was as good as it was going to get for me haha. that's why I ended up going online to find the "active" websites.

 

[Jbrowndds]

That program would be nice but in Texas it's a seven year program.

Sent from my LG-LS970 using SDN Mobile

 

[a2ndragoon89]

That program would be nice but in Texas it's a seven year program.

Sent from my LG-LS970 using SDN Mobile

Nor sure if you're referring to Michigan, but most of the dual-degree programs advertise 7 years.

 

[a2ndragoon89]

For those that are interested in Dental Research, we are hosting an Oral Health Sciences Summer Conference June 20, 2013.

http://www.dent.umich.edu/phd/OHS-summer-conference

Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner will be provided. There is an application that you'll need to fill out to guarantee a spot here. It's a competitive process for those that are interested. If you're looking to apply to our program for 2014 this will be an excellent way to find out. If you want to know the nature of dental research (cancer, stem cell, tissue engineering, developmental biology, bone biology, clinical research, genetics) we have a broad group of researchers that will be presenting posters, keynote speakers that have graduated from our program, and their perspective in our field.

I hope to see some SDNers there! Feel free to contact me if you wish to know more.

 

[clubwestpua]

oh gosh. I cannot believe I missed this thread.. I am interested in DDS PHD program and am currently a postbacc research fellow at NIH. I am also currently talking to NIDCR folks and they are going to write me a letter of recommendation.. My GPA is 3.72 and I have 24TS and 23AA DAT. I am almost done with my ps but am having trouble finishing it cause I am trying to appeal to broader audience in case I dont get into dual degree program. and squeezing every reason why I want to be a dentist including parents, patient care, volunteer, leadership exp and then highlighting my research at NIH and shadowing NIDCR ppl in 4500 characters is ridiculously challenging..

I would first like to know which schools offer the same financial advantage as Michigan. My family isn't well-off and I cannot disregard debt while pursuing my academic dream.

 

[a2ndragoon89]

Sorry I didn't get to respond to this. I've been busy with school and my research. If you apply to our program, no amount of money would convince you to stay in it if you didn't genuinely have a passion for the science. It's a rigorous path, and you have to be confident that you're making the right choice for yourself. I'm not sure if you've already applied to our program or not, but I wish you the best. I'll be sure to keep adding updates...

As for Michigan...

We're currently in the process of interviewing several candidates before the end of the month. These students come from all over the country and only 2 positions will be secured by the DDS/PhD program and 1 position for the PhD program. We have a great group of students, from all walks of life currently going through our program. We are a close-knit family that celebrates all of the holidays of the year, go out for happy hours, talk about science, about life, everything! With the stresses of life and science, we come to each other about our problems, our successes, and our dreams. Don't think that we're a recluse group of students that are doing science "for no good reason". I love my dental school class. I'm officially/unofficially part of the 2016 and 2017 class here at Michigan and I enjoy my classmates companies at the bar, parties, events, etc.

For me personally, I probably will continue my passion for entrepreneurship and build my company during school. I've chosen my dissertation lab and am currently in the process of speaking with licensing specialists, tech transfer officers, potential collaborators for therapeutic delivery systems, and much more. Don't think that your only road is an academic one if you join us. We are open to students that have a passion for science, for innovation, and for care.

And yes, people constantly contact me about our program and I'm always willing to talk to prospective students about what I do and what they need to do to be competitive in our program. Feel free to write me at [email protected]!

 

[tcyerfdog]

If anyone needs info on schools I have interviewed for the DDS/DMD PhD programs at:
San Antonio
Ohio State
Minnesota (UMN)
UCONN
UAB

All of these schools have training grants and have positions open depending on the year.

 

[stag123]

How was your experience at San Antonio? I'm a Texas resident and very interested in the dual program.

 

[molarbear123]

I am invited to UCSF's DDS/PhD interview. Did they reimburse you for the interview travel cost? @a2ndragoon89

 

[a2ndragoon89]

For those applying to U of M this cycle and have received interviews, please feel free to contact me. I can talk to you about how to interview successfully at U of M. Sorry for the lack of responses.

 

[a2ndragoon89]

Refresher for those interested in DDS/PhD. U of Michigan is always looking for great people to join us! Also, please let me know if any links aren't working or if new schools are offering dual programs!

 

[danchoi03]

Refresher for those interested in DDS/PhD. U of Michigan is always looking for great people to join us! Also, please let me know if any links aren't working or if new schools are offering dual programs!

Hey Azndragoon:

I wish I have seen this thread earlier. I think it may have been too late to sign up for Michigan DDS/PhD program, but I still want to know what is my chance:

I have 2.87 oGPA and sGPA, but have 3.9 in Rugters MBS (it is a masters program, but non-thesis route). My DAT is 23AA and 23TS. I did some research for my MBS degree but it wasn't research intensive. My research was on Ikaros proteins roles in lymphoma diseases. I really want to do DDS/PhD but I am afraid that I am not competitive enough.

 

[a2ndragoon89]

Get in touch with my director ASAP, Jan Hu. Are you currently applying to dschools this cycle? DDS/PhD application is still ongoing until Dec. 1 I think. Also, you may contact me.

[email protected] - Dr. Jan Hu (Director of the OHS PhD program and Interim Chair of Orthodontics and Pediatric Dentistry)
http://www.dent.umich.edu/research/ohs-phd/ohs-ddsphd-program

 

[CaliK]

Hello,
I am currently a pre-dental student and am half way through my 2nd year of undergrad. I attend Rollins College which is a small liberal arts school. I wanted to go somewhere where I would have small classes and get to know my professors. I will be doing summer research on campus this summer as well. I would like to do a DDS/PhD program and am particularly interested in Michigan's program because I am from Michigan. I would appreciate any advice about what to do in the coming years.
Thanks!

 

[a2ndragoon89]

Updated information on all schools and a table featuring Dental Schools with funding mechanisms to support DDS/PhD training.

Email me for further information at [email protected]

Joe Nguyen

 

[MathGRL]

Besides free tuition, what are the benefits of getting a dual degree?

 

[DentistScientist]

Besides free tuition, what are the benefits of getting a dual degree?

Opportunity to be a faculty member doing bench research, teaching students, and practicing in a faculty practice.
Opportunity to be a principal investigator bringing innovations and pioneering in various research topics in oral disease, materials, and etc and working in prestigious research institutes like NIDCR, Forsyth, Jackson, and Salk.
Opportunity to continue build one's career and eventually becoming the dean or a leader in dental medicine
Opportunity to have a job until your breath stops with less pressure to retire as your hands, eyes, and backbone weaken. Some professors and principal investigators die while working in labs and offices

Here is the unofficial ranking of DDS/Ph.D programs. You need to exclude those without dds phd programs
https://www.nidcr.nih.gov/grantsand...talSchools/GrantstoDentalInstitutions2015.htm

 

[MathGRL]

Opportunity to be a faculty member doing bench research, teaching students, and practicing in a faculty practice.
Opportunity to be a principal investigator in prestigious research institutes like NIDCR, Forsyth, Jackson, and Salk.
Opportunity to continue build one's career and eventually becoming the dean

Are you considering this path? Do you think the extra grueling 3 years is worth it? It seems that most programs start with the PhD portion, what do you think of this? Which dual program is better Indiana University or University of Minnesota?

 

[DentistScientist]

Are you considering this path? Do you think the extra grueling 3 years is worth it? It seems that most programs start with the PhD portion, what do you think of this? Which dual program is better Indiana University or University of Minnesota?

If you want these opportunities I listed, of course it's worth it. NIH will not likely give one research funding with only DMD or DDS degree. I would say Minnesota because of greater amount of NIDCR funding overall but it depends more on one's research interest.

 

[shwayne]

Don't apply to dual programs unless you are 100% committed to academia.. There also isn't a "ranking" of dual programs.. Just because the school receives more funding doesn't mean you will be more successful there. It's all in the PI and your commitment to your projects.

Straight DMD/DDS's pursue more clinically-related research, whereas those who also have a PhD study more basic science.

 

[shwayne]

Are you considering this path? Do you think the extra grueling 3 years is worth it? It seems that most programs start with the PhD portion, what do you think of this? Which dual program is better Indiana University or University of Minnesota?

Think about it this way.. you can take 3 years (typically 4, minimum) to get your PhD, whereas in a more traditional program, it would take one typically 5-7 years to do the same amount of work.. Consider balancing your commitment to lab with your requirement to study clinical dentistry.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

Opportunity to be a faculty member doing bench research, teaching students, and practicing in a faculty practice.
Opportunity to be a principal investigator bringing innovations and pioneering in various research topics in oral disease, materials, and etc and working in prestigious research institutes like NIDCR, Forsyth, Jackson, and Salk.
Opportunity to continue build one's career and eventually becoming the dean or a leader in dental medicine
Opportunity to have a job until your breath stops with less pressure to retire as your hands, eyes, and backbone weaken. Some professors and principal investigators die while working in labs and offices

Here is the unofficial ranking of DDS/Ph.D programs. You need to exclude those without dds phd programs
https://www.nidcr.nih.gov/grantsand...talSchools/GrantstoDentalInstitutions2015.htm

I should point out that somebody should only really do this if they feel passionate about it because most of what you listed there doesn't pay as well as just being a regular dentist.

 

[shwayne]

You work more, you get paid less.. that's science.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

You work more, you get paid less.. that's science.

Yep.

 

[MathGRL]

I have just been admitted to a dual degree program. Although I have been doing research for 4 years, the rigors of this program are making me pause for a moment. I must say, the full ride and the stipend is very intriguing. Can any current dual PhD/DMD students give some advice to the newly accepted. Will the dual open more doors? What if I want to specialize after? does this program make you a more desirable candidate?

 

[DentistScientist]

I have just been admitted to a dual degree program. Although I have been doing research for 4 years, the rigors of this program are making me pause for a moment. I must say, the full ride and the stipend is very intriguing. Can any current dual PhD/DMD students give some advice to the newly accepted. Will the dual open more doors? What if I want to specialize after? does this program make you a more desirable candidate?

Same here. I have been just admitted to the dual degree program too. My program guarantees any specialties after finishing the dual degree program and meeting clinical requirements. However, I don't think I am exempt from taking ADAT or CBSE.

I do not think this "advantage" exists only in my school. I am sure this applies to all dual degree students and my school just advertises it. And adding Ph.D degree in just 3~4 years and then doing either postdoc or dental residencies aren't bad to me. In terms of length, this is no different or even shorter than attending medical school, doing residency, and then doing fellowship. And Ph.D is hard but it's not as intense as medical residency programs that are not cush ones like preliminary ones or anesthesiology. You get more sleep everyday, weekends, and holidays and do not have to "reside" in the hospital. And you get much broader career options and geographic freedom too after you finish.

 

[queenki]

Same here. I have been just admitted to the dual degree program too. My program guarantees any specialties after finishing the dual degree program and meeting clinical requirements. However, I don't think I am exempt from taking ADAT or CBSE.

I do not think this "advantage" exists only in my school. I am sure this applies to all dual degree students and my school just advertises it. And adding Ph.D degree in just 3~4 years and then doing either postdoc or dental residencies aren't bad to me. In terms of length, this is no different or even shorter than attending medical school, doing residency, and then doing fellowship. And Ph.D is hard but it's not as intense as medical residency programs that are not cush ones like preliminary ones or anesthesiology. You get more sleep everyday, weekends, and holidays and do not have to "reside" in the hospital. And you get much broader career options and geographic freedom too after you finish.

Could you share which program you are in?

 

[DentistScientist]

Could you share which program you are in?

I don't think the speciality advantage that my program advertises is not necessarily true. So please be careful before making your decision.
You do DDS PhD to be an academic dentist, work 60 hours per week doing research, teaching, and dentistry, and get paid as much as or less than freshly graduated general dentists in corporate jobs. You do it for the love of science and academia.

 

[ItisanMCE]

Hey Azndragoon:

I wish I have seen this thread earlier. I think it may have been too late to sign up for Michigan DDS/PhD program, but I still want to know what is my chance:

I have 2.87 oGPA and sGPA, but have 3.9 in Rugters MBS (it is a masters program, but non-thesis route). My DAT is 23AA and 23TS. I did some research for my MBS degree but it wasn't research intensive. My research was on Ikaros proteins roles in lymphoma diseases. I really want to do DDS/PhD but I am afraid that I am not competitive enough.

Dr. Tsiagbe's lab? I think I know you!