**The Official Guide to Special Masters Programs**

[NeuroAP86]

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For the most part my interviews imho went decent, not great but not bad. The CCOM interview we talked about my extensive clinical experience and I thought that I would for sure get in. According to averages I don't think that my MCAT is below for osteopathic schools, it is however for allopathic schools. We will see I guess, I'm leaning toward the Tulane ACP as of now and looks like my best shot

 

[jslo85]

If you can get into Tulane ACP that is a great linkage program to be in. If you haven't applied as of yet, then I would say you're quite late in the ball game.

 

[klmnop]

I heard Tulane saves all their apps to look at in June.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9345742&postcount=177
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8218906&postcount=50

 

[pritomd]

Hello

I figured I'd post here since this is the official SMP thread..if "should I do SMP" posts should be redirected, please let me know!

Anyway, here is my story:

Currently a third year, the semester is about to end. Assuming I get the grades I'm expecting, I am estimating my GPA to be 2.8. I am taking summer classes, and I am pretty positive I can get all A's. It will be bio 1 and 2, plus their labs. If I can do this, I can pull it up to 3.0. If I continue this trend, I'll have a 3.1 or so by the time I finish my fall semester of my fourth year. Basically, my first two years were shot to hell and I've had an upward trend, but I don't think I can pull more than a 3.1, maybe 3.2 in best case scenario. Therefore I am thinking an SMP is for me. Is it?

One other huge thing: I have not taken the MCAT yet, nor have I prepared for it at all, nor have I even finished bio yet (I am in biomedical engineering and they claimed our physiology classes could substitute..I wanna take bio just for mcat prep and also cause my friend who applied to ohio state vet said they dont take physiology as a substitute for biology). if i were to take it this year, itd be late in the summer, and thus, hurting my med school chances.

so basically: low gpa of 3.1 if all goes to plan, but second half (including upper division classes) performance much better. mcat timeline very unfavorable since have not taken biology, and would be submitting scores late if i did.

so, is the SMP pretty much what I need to go after? are there any other alternatives?

 

[klmnop]

Hello

I figured I'd post here since this is the official SMP thread..if "should I do SMP" posts should be redirected, please let me know!

Anyway, here is my story:

Currently a third year, the semester is about to end. Assuming I get the grades I'm expecting, I am estimating my GPA to be 2.8. I am taking summer classes, and I am pretty positive I can get all A's. It will be bio 1 and 2, plus their labs. If I can do this, I can pull it up to 3.0. If I continue this trend, I'll have a 3.1 or so by the time I finish my fall semester of my fourth year. Basically, my first two years were shot to hell and I've had an upward trend, but I don't think I can pull more than a 3.1, maybe 3.2 in best case scenario. Therefore I am thinking an SMP is for me. Is it?

One other huge thing: I have not taken the MCAT yet, nor have I prepared for it at all, nor have I even finished bio yet (I am in biomedical engineering and they claimed our physiology classes could substitute..I wanna take bio just for mcat prep and also cause my friend who applied to ohio state vet said they dont take physiology as a substitute for biology). if i were to take it this year, itd be late in the summer, and thus, hurting my med school chances.

so basically: low gpa of 3.1 if all goes to plan, but second half (including upper division classes) performance much better. mcat timeline very unfavorable since have not taken biology, and would be submitting scores late if i did.

so, is the SMP pretty much what I need to go after? are there any other alternatives?

Few things:
1-Physio does not substitute for Gen Bio for AMCAS or SMPs. To be a successful applicant to either you will need all of your pre-reqs completed.
2-If you are able to do what you say, you are still on the low side of GPA for an SMP... and without an MCAT score to add yet we can't really say. If you do well on the MCAT (mid to low 30's) an SMP is no longer out of the question, but for most of them this should be completed upon applying.
3-have you taken the other pre-reqs? chem, org, phys? and if so what is you sciGPA (includes BCMP classes) and what do you 'expect' it to be? if you have not done these you should look into a traditional post-bacc program after graduation which will enroll you in these and even help you with the MCAT.
4- if you have taken all of these and none of the grades are C- or below (and your MCAT is decent) you could look at some less-competitive SMPs...such as the DO ones.
5-if you have taken all of these and some of the grades are D's or failures, you should look to retake these courses and apply to DO schools once you replace them with A's.

A bit more info would make this easier. I'm relatively new to this so hopefully some other people can provide some insight and modify my assessment.

 

[DrMidlife]

...I don't think I can pull more than a 3.1, maybe 3.2 in best case scenario. Therefore I am thinking an SMP is for me. Is it?

Are you wanting to go to med school? If so, then after a few other things, an SMP might be right for you.

One other huge thing: I have not taken the MCAT yet, nor have I prepared for it at all, nor have I even finished bio yet (I am in biomedical engineering and they claimed our physiology classes could substitute..I wanna take bio just for mcat prep and also cause my friend who applied to ohio state vet said they dont take physiology as a substitute for biology). if i were to take it this year, itd be late in the summer, and thus, hurting my med school chances.

You don't have med school chances right now. Your GPA is 2 to 3 standard deviations below the average matriculated med student. You haven't completed prereqs. You haven't taken the MCAT. Your vet student friend has better info than the "they" who claimed your physio could substitute for med school prereqs, but you shouldn't be getting your med school admissions advice from vet students. SDN's good, just make sure to get 2nd and 3rd opinions on this anonymous, unreviewed and largely unmoderated forum.

The prereqs are very standard: one year each, with labs, of bio/genchem/ochem/physics. Most schools also require English and Math. A bunch of schools require additional upper div science, humanities, social science, behavioral science, etc. A few schools have no prereqs at all, just recommendations, and each gets 5000+ applications for about 150 seats. (How on earth do I know this? I've been studying a book called the MSAR, Medical School Admissions Requirements, every year it comes out...because I want to go to med school and I have a low GPA. It's available in the prehealth advising office at your school, and on www.aamc.org. The 2011-2012 edition was released 4 days ago.)

Have you done any hospital or clinic volunteering? Have you looked at any med schools' admissions web pages, or otherwise educated yourself about this process? Have you nurtured relationships with faculty who can write letters of recommendation for you?

so basically: low gpa of 3.1 if all goes to plan, but second half (including upper division classes) performance much better. mcat timeline very unfavorable since have not taken biology, and would be submitting scores late if i did.

so, is the SMP pretty much what I need to go after? are there any other alternatives?

Very quick next steps:
1. Pick a med school.
2. Read its admissions website.
3. Pick another med school.
4. Compare its admissions requirements to the first med school.
5. Re-asses your situation.

If you still want to go to med school after you understand the requirements, and you need to figure out where/when/how to finish the prereqs and how to recover from a low GPA, then this forum can help you.

Best of luck to you.

 

[pritomd]

Heh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make myself sound like a complete dummy.

I have taken all of the other prereqs, just finishing up orgo 2 + orgo 2 lab. Have take gen chem/physics and labs, plus the English and math reqs.

I have done hospital volunteering during the summer after my first year and my second year. I think I will stop though since it is extremely boring. I have also done volunteering with an organization that fixes houses for low-income families, as well as coach 2nd grade lacrosse since i entered college in fall 2007 during the school year. will be doing shadowing this summer.

i have also done and am currently doing undergrad research. did one lab with a biology professor studying electric fish. was nice an all to get some exposure, but changed because irrelevant to my major/goals. currently in materials science lab doing research on quantum dots. this will be my third semester in that lab. i have strong relationships with these two PI's, as well as a handful of faculty in the MSE department who I frequently talk to and have taken classes with them.

I have done my research before and have searched and browsed SDN so I don't think I'm completely out of the loop.

also, as far as not completing prereqs and mcat and whatnot, I was pretty sure that I cant apply to med schools (atleast this year) due to low GPA and no completion of bio and mcat, not sure why I even included it as a possibility in my post.

from what i've read, most apply to SMP's in their fourth year, so I felt like I still had some time. just wanted some confirmation from other people that with a 3.1, an SMP is pretty much the way to go (granted that I'd still be taking the MCAT too, I just really cant gauge that yet since I'd do it later in the year, after the summer).

 

[klmnop]

Heh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make myself sound like a complete dummy.

I have taken all of the other prereqs, just finishing up orgo 2 + orgo 2 lab. Have take gen chem/physics and labs, plus the English and math reqs.

I have done hospital volunteering during the summer after my first year and my second year. I think I will stop though since it is extremely boring. I have also done volunteering with an organization that fixes houses for low-income families, as well as coach 2nd grade lacrosse since i entered college in fall 2007 during the school year. will be doing shadowing this summer.

i have also done and am currently doing undergrad research. did one lab with a biology professor studying electric fish. was nice an all to get some exposure, but changed because irrelevant to my major/goals. currently in materials science lab doing research on quantum dots. this will be my third semester in that lab. i have strong relationships with these two PI's, as well as a handful of faculty in the MSE department who I frequently talk to and have taken classes with them.

I have done my research before and have searched and browsed SDN so I don't think I'm completely out of the loop.

also, as far as not completing prereqs and mcat and whatnot, I was pretty sure that I cant apply to med schools (atleast this year) due to low GPA and no completion of bio and mcat, not sure why I even included it as a possibility in my post.

from what i've read, most apply to SMP's in their fourth year, so I felt like I still had some time. just wanted some confirmation from other people that with a 3.1, an SMP is pretty much the way to go.

regardless of your major, I don't understand how a lab on quantum dots is more focused with respect to your goals than a bio lab... which we are assuming is med school.
also, you most definitely cannot apply to med schools without bio or the MCAT, and you need both for SMPs (most of them) as i've stated.

also, seeing as your research is not biomedical in nature, I would continue to volunteer at the hospital. 'boring' is not a very good excuse, especially if this is a field you want to get into and you have little extracurricular experience. the kids you will be competing with for med/smp positions will have all volunteered for 4 years, had biomedical research experience, done EMT work, been on premedical societies, shadowed doctors, had payed positions in hospitals, etc. sounds like you need all the medical-oriented direction you can get. not to be mean, but you need to be serious about it because if you don't have significant EC's in the biomedical field you really don't have a shot... regardless of how boring it was.

 

[pritomd]

posting in other thread since i am not sure if my situation specifically calls for an SMP or a post bacc. thanks for help though

 

[Vongrind]

Thanks for your input. I looked into the SMP's on the page by drmidlife. Great resource by the way. I agree that SMP would be the way to go, and retake the mcat of course. I'm really leaning towards the online SMP at USF. Any thoughts on credibility and weight of online coursework? I just don't know how I would be able to handle a traditional SMP financially, piling more debt on top of my current debt. If I could do the online SMP I wouldn't have to worry about making ends meet. (overseas pay is pretty sweet)

Thanks for helping me keep my head in the game. I've come a very long way and I am not turning back. On the positive side, the two schools that I did interview at (1MD/1DO) both put me on the alternate list. So, I figure I must not have been too awful. Bump the numbers up and I'm good to go!

Have you considered USUHS? The military medical school?

 

[tobeatrev]

USUHS likes prior-military but they aren't much more lenient on the numbers than other schools...they equated my prior military experience and leadership to the large amounts of extracurriculars that non-military do in order to become "well rounded."

 

[xFutureMDx]

Any word about how effective one of these SMPs would be perceived by Penn State Hershey?

 

[jslo85]

Only way to know would be to call the admissions office and ask an adviser or ask to speak to the director. One thing to add if you do speak to them is mention the programs that you are interested in (SMP programs), even if they have heard of them, they might not recognize the one that you wish to attend.

A non-official rule of thumb is the medical schools who themselves have an SMP/post-bacc type program are receptive to the idea of SMPs but know that a large number to probably a majority of medical schools out there aren't drinking the SMP koolaid, at least not yet as of now.

 

[Mcs0503]

Hi everyone,

Here are my stats:

Undergrad: 2.78
BCPM: 2.78

Graduate GPA(Cell and Molecular Bio) 3.27

1.5 years of research project.
Teaches Anatomy and Physiology at a community college.
TA at Grad school.
970 GRE (recent, but low will retake)



As I read these boards more and more i find that an MS in a biomed science is not weighed as much as the Undergrad GPA.

With that said would I need an SMP program? I understand that my Grad GPA is low. I want some advice on what my next steps should be on getting into medical school.

Also how does one support themselves finacially during SMPs?

Thanks!!!😀👍

 

[klmnop]

As I read these boards more and more i find that an MS in a biomed science is not weighed as much as the Undergrad GPA.

With that said would I need an SMP program? I understand that my Grad GPA is low. I want some advice on what my next steps should be on getting into medical school.

Also how does one support themselves finacially during SMPs?

Thanks!!!😀👍

IMO you are not competitive for a true-SMP right now. Situations like these (in which the pre-reqs are complete but low) are difficult to asses because there are several options, and we really just give you one or two. regardless, i will try and give my opinion.

With a 2.78 BCMP i'm going to assume your pre-req GPA is also very low (correct me if i'm wrong). in this case i would consider doing a formal post-bacc program (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8329886&postcount=1 category 3) with a high linkage to med school or with great success rates. your poor ugrad gpa and decent grad gpa should both help you get in, because it indicates you need to retake some classes, yet you are not completely incompetent. i honestly have not researched these individual programs thoroughly because they didn't fit to my needs, but there are several threads about each of these, and the websites are very, very helpful.

the other good thing about these programs is that they prepare you for the mcat so you don't need one to enroll. this is good because by the looks of it, it may be a waste to do this now (seeing as most SMPs require this or GRE, and yours is still a bit low). excellent grades in a reputable program (ex: Harvard & Penn according to SDN) will land you in a medical school in short time. One thing to note, though, is that your ugrad gpa will be averaged with the post-bacc grades by the AMCAS. so there is a high possibility it will still not be competitive. but the AACOMAS (osteopathic) allows you to replace these grades with better ones. so a high 3pt GPA will be the only thing they see on your application... giving you a great chance provided a decent MCAT.

also, get those ec's up. especially for DO programs. try to get in some clinical work. teaching, TA-ing, and research is very good, but they want to know you are able to interact with patients in a clinical setting.

 

[jslo85]

Hi everyone,

Here are my stats:

Undergrad: 2.78
BCPM: 2.78

Graduate GPA(Cell and Molecular Bio) 3.27

1.5 years of research project.
Teaches Anatomy and Physiology at a community college.
TA at Grad school.
970 GRE (recent, but low will retake)



As I read these boards more and more i find that an MS in a biomed science is not weighed as much as the Undergrad GPA.

With that said would I need an SMP program? I understand that my Grad GPA is low. I want some advice on what my next steps should be on getting into medical school.

Also how does one support themselves finacially during SMPs?

Thanks!!!😀👍

IMO you are not competitive for a true-SMP right now. Situations like these (in which the pre-reqs are complete but low) are difficult to asses because there are several options, and we really just give you one or two. regardless, i will try and give my opinion.

With a 2.78 BCMP i'm going to assume your pre-req GPA is also very low (correct me if i'm wrong). in this case i would consider doing a formal post-bacc program (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8329886&postcount=1 category 3) with a high linkage to med school or with great success rates. your poor ugrad gpa and decent grad gpa should both help you get in, because it indicates you need to retake some classes, yet you are not completely incompetent. i honestly have not researched these individual programs thoroughly because they didn't fit to my needs, but there are several threads about each of these, and the websites are very, very helpful.

the other good thing about these programs is that they prepare you for the mcat so you don't need one to enroll. this is good because by the looks of it, it may be a waste to do this now (seeing as most SMPs require this or GRE, and yours is still a bit low). excellent grades in a reputable program (ex: Harvard & Penn according to SDN) will land you in a medical school in short time. One thing to note, though, is that your ugrad gpa will be averaged with the post-bacc grades by the AMCAS. so there is a high possibility it will still not be competitive. but the AACOMAS (osteopathic) allows you to replace these grades with better ones. so a high 3pt GPA will be the only thing they see on your application... giving you a great chance provided a decent MCAT.

also, get those ec's up. especially for DO programs. try to get in some clinical work. teaching, TA-ing, and research is very good, but they want to know you are able to interact with patients in a clinical setting.

Klmnop brings up a valid option and he is right in that you're not competitive for true-SMP programs with your current stats.

You should make up your mind which path you wish to follow, osteopathic or allopathic medicine because the path that you would take from here would be different depending on which you choose.

If you wish to go with allopathic medicine, you can a) try Klmnop's path of trying to get into a formal post-bacc program with reputation and somewhat of a linkage to their/other medical schools. UT Dallas and UVA are two programs that come to mind that fit your situation but UVA is probably more selective than you can realistically enter and UT Dallas should be easier to get into.

Another option you might have is to do an informal post-bacc at a local university to boost that GPA. You can do your own calculations on how long/how many units/what kind of grades you will need before you break a 3.0 to begin consider SMP programs. You will be taking upper division sciences and even if you don't hit a 3.0, if you can get reasonably close with a high upward trend and a high MCAT score, you might get a few looks from reputable SMP programs.

If you wanted to go osteopathic, I would advise you to enroll at a local university to retake all the classes you did poorly in and then apply into the SMP/MBS program that the DO school you're interested in has to offer and take full advantage of the opportunity to link.

As for everything else, refer to Klmnop's post for clinical/other parts of your application.

As for how to pay for all of this? Loans loans loans. If you come up with something better, post it here as I'm sure everyone here will want to know. It's an expensive option but the blame falls upon you (me as well since I've dug myself a hole to climb out of as well) that you need to rely on said programs/routes to get into medical school.

 

[DrMidlife]

The following is not intended to discourage med school candidacy or SDN support of GPA comebacks, but to encourage fact-based guidance.

Undergrad: 2.78
BCPM: 2.78

A med school app is judged, first and foremost, by the candidate's undergrad cumulative GPAs and MCAT score. The average matriculant's undergrad GPA is about 3.6 for MD, and about 3.5 for DO.

Graduate GPA(Cell and Molecular Bio) 3.27

This does not help your story. A very strong grad GPA (such as a 3.8+) does not make up for a low undergrad GPA; an average grad GPA cements the impression made by a low undergrad GPA.

As I read these boards more and more i find that an MS in a biomed science is not weighed as much as the Undergrad GPA.

Depends on the MS. If it's a traditional grad program, then it's effectively viewed as an extra-curricular activity. If you have average stats (such as a cumulative undergrad GPA of 3.6 and an MCAT of 32+ for MD) then grad work can put you ahead.

If the MSBS is a Special Masters Program, or a med masters, then it's viewed as an audition for med school, in which you do the first year of med school to prove you can succeed in med school. And med schools that know about SMPs (and, preferably, have already accepted SMP grads who have done well in med school) will give that audition performance some consideration against sub-competitive stats.

With that said would I need an SMP program? I understand that my Grad GPA is low. I want some advice on what my next steps should be on getting into medical school.

You'll need to do more undergrad to get into an SMP. Get your cumulative undergrad GPAs up above 3.0, or spend at least 2 more years in undergrad at a 3.7+, if you want to be taken seriously. I recommend this whether you want to go MD or DO.

Also how does one support themselves finacially during SMPs?

Federal Stafford & GradPlus loans. Think of an SMP as doing med school on the 5 year plan.

With a 2.78 BCMP i'm going to assume your pre-req GPA is also very low (correct me if i'm wrong). in this case i would consider doing a formal post-bacc program (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8329886&postcount=1 category 3) with a high linkage to med school or with great success rates.

The GPA enhancement thread lists a LOT of programs, but not one of them is going to offer linkage or great success rates for a sub-3.0 candidate who doesn't have an MCAT score.

your poor ugrad gpa and decent grad gpa should both help you get in, because it indicates you need to retake some classes, yet you are not completely incompetent.

First, 3.27 is not decent, it's low. Traditional grad work tends to be inflated; even a 4.0 in traditional grad work doesn't carry weight because the curriculum is not standardized, nor is there a national proctored exam that substantiates the GPA.

Second, I'm baffled how you figure that a low undergrad GPA is going to help Mcs in any way.

the other good thing about these programs is that they prepare you for the mcat so you don't need one to enroll. this is good because by the looks of it, it may be a waste to do this now (seeing as most SMPs require this or GRE, and yours is still a bit low). excellent grades in a reputable program (ex: Harvard & Penn according to SDN) will land you in a medical school in short time. One thing to note, though, is that your ugrad gpa will be averaged with the post-bacc grades by the AMCAS. so there is a high possibility it will still not be competitive. but the AACOMAS (osteopathic) allows you to replace these grades with better ones. so a high 3pt GPA will be the only thing they see on your application... giving you a great chance provided a decent MCAT.

Only a minority of postbacs include MCAT prep, and I see no data that suggests doing MCAT prep as part of a postbac gets you a better score than doing MCAT prep separately. Most of the time when MCAT prep is offered, they bring Kaplan or TPR on campus. With the exception of the URM postbacs, where there's additional tutoring, there's only marginal, if any, value add with having MCAT prep included in your postbac.

Against a 2.78, excellent grades in a reputable program will NOT get you into med school in a short time. Against a 2.78, you're looking at 2, more likely 3 years before you're getting into med school, MD or DO.

Mcs's undergrad GPA will not be competitive until about 6 more years of undergrad, at a 4.0, get it up over 3.5. It's not highly possible that Mcs's undergrad GPA won't be competitive, it's a given.

AACOMAS will forgive an old grade for repeated coursework in the cumulative GPA calcs. But AACOMAS will list every grade ever earned on any college transcript. There for all to see.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Mcs0503]

The following is not intended to discourage med school candidacy or SDN support of GPA comebacks, but to encourage fact-based guidance.

A med school app is judged, first and foremost, by the candidate's undergrad cumulative GPAs and MCAT score. The average matriculant's undergrad GPA is about 3.6 for MD, and about 3.5 for DO.

This does not help your story. A very strong grad GPA (such as a 3.8+) does not make up for a low undergrad GPA; an average grad GPA cements the impression made by a low undergrad GPA.

Depends on the MS. If it's a traditional grad program, then it's effectively viewed as an extra-curricular activity. If you have average stats (such as a cumulative undergrad GPA of 3.6 and an MCAT of 32+ for MD) then grad work can put you ahead.

If the MSBS is a Special Masters Program, or a med masters, then it's viewed as an audition for med school, in which you do the first year of med school to prove you can succeed in med school. And med schools that know about SMPs (and, preferably, have already accepted SMP grads who have done well in med school) will give that audition performance some consideration against sub-competitive stats.

You'll need to do more undergrad to get into an SMP. Get your cumulative undergrad GPAs up above 3.0, or spend at least 2 more years in undergrad at a 3.7+, if you want to be taken seriously. I recommend this whether you want to go MD or DO.

Federal Stafford & GradPlus loans. Think of an SMP as doing med school on the 5 year plan.

The GPA enhancement thread lists a LOT of programs, but not one of them is going to offer linkage or great success rates for a sub-3.0 candidate who doesn't have an MCAT score.

First, 3.27 is not decent, it's low. Traditional grad work tends to be inflated; even a 4.0 in traditional grad work doesn't carry weight because the curriculum is not standardized, nor is there a national proctored exam that substantiates the GPA.

Second, I'm baffled how you figure that a low undergrad GPA is going to help Mcs in any way.

Only a minority of postbacs include MCAT prep, and I see no data that suggests doing MCAT prep as part of a postbac gets you a better score than doing MCAT prep separately. Most of the time when MCAT prep is offered, they bring Kaplan or TPR on campus. With the exception of the URM postbacs, where there's additional tutoring, there's only marginal, if any, value add with having MCAT prep included in your postbac.

Against a 2.78, excellent grades in a reputable program will NOT get you into med school in a short time. Against a 2.78, you're looking at 2, more likely 3 years before you're getting into med school, MD or DO.

Mcs's undergrad GPA will not be competitive until about 6 more years of undergrad, at a 4.0, get it up over 3.5. It's not highly possible that Mcs's undergrad GPA won't be competitive, it's a given.

AACOMAS will forgive an old grade for repeated coursework in the cumulative GPA calcs. But AACOMAS will list every grade ever earned on any college transcript. There for all to see.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks so much Dr. Midlife. I considered PMing you this topic instead of posting. I knew you would give outstanding information.

Also I made a mistake typing my GPA it's not a 2.78 but a 2.87 but I'm sure that the difference is nill.

I have been essentially on an information hunting campaign. So in terms of low GPA's aren't there stories of people with stats the same as mine that 'made it' ???

And when you say 6 years do you mean just post-bacc? Or post + SMP?

 

[jslo85]

I would probably read a bit more in this forum next time since this link has 260,000+ views and 2000+ posts.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=125347

You can interpret this post as being snarky if you wish. I'll allow it.

 

[DrMidlife]

And when you say 6 years do you mean just post-bacc? Or post + SMP?

When I say 6 years I mean that it's theoretically possible to get your undergrad GPA up over 3.5. Hopefully you'll scavenge this forum for a less ridiculous way to get into med school.

 

[klmnop]

first and foremost, thanks dr. midlife for clearing up a few things.. I don't mean to give incorrect information, it seems I am a bit confused about the information I have seen.

The GPA enhancement thread lists a LOT of programs, but not one of them is going to offer linkage or great success rates for a sub-3.0 candidate who doesn't have an MCAT score.

Would post-baccs factor in his masters work, because if so he qualifies for several that allow redos, a handful of which have linkages if you perform above a certain level (and have a certain MCAT) such as CUNY Hunter and UConn program B, and many of them boast high successes (again with good MCAT results which can be taken during the program)

First, 3.27 is not decent, it's low. Traditional grad work tends to be inflated; even a 4.0 in traditional grad work doesn't carry weight because the curriculum is not standardized, nor is there a national proctored exam that substantiates the GPA.

i meant decent as compared to a 2.78. I know that anything below a B in trad masters is failing because of inflation.

Second, I'm baffled how you figure that a low undergrad GPA is going to help Mcs in any way.

'help' was also meant as a relative term. if Mcs had done better in their pre-reqs or ugrad, this option to retake them would be pointless and even hurtful.

Only a minority of postbacs include MCAT prep,

maybe, but i have come across quite a few, more than the avg. person would probably apply to.

and I see no data that suggests doing MCAT prep as part of a postbac gets you a better score than doing MCAT prep separately

not implying it would, but if you just recently did well in a bunch of pre-reqs you would probably do better than having done poorly in them some 4 or 5 years ago.

Against a 2.78, excellent grades in a reputable program will NOT get you into med school in a short time. Against a 2.78, you're looking at 2, more likely 3 years before you're getting into med school, MD or DO.

true, it seems i was overambitious for Mcs. what i should have said was do a post-bacc to retake your pre-reqs, and then add some more ugrad coursework (1 or 3 years) to boost your gpa for an smp (after you have taken the mcat as well)

AACOMAS will forgive an old grade for repeated coursework in the cumulative GPA calcs. But AACOMAS will list every grade ever earned on any college transcript. There for all to see.

i'm aware of this, i contemplated the wording when i wrote it. everyone must submit all of their collegiate coursework to everyone. i only meant to exemplify the differences in aacomas and amcas.

Best of luck to you.

agreed

 

[Mcs0503]

When I say 6 years I mean that it's theoretically possible to get your undergrad GPA up over 3.5. Hopefully you'll scavenge this forum for a less ridiculous way to get into med school.

LOL well I will ask you first if you know of any since you know so much.👍

If i say get a 'perfect' MCAT score will it help or not? (Theoretically of course)

 

[mm23]

Hi everyone,

I am currently a sophomore with a 2.0 cumulative GPA. Here's a breakdown of my grades:

Freshman yr:
Gen Chem C+
First-Yr Russian A-
Humanities B
Humanities B+

Gen Chem II B
First-Yr Russian A
Humanities D
Humanities F

Sophomore yr:
Orgo I B-
Intro to Bio (Molecules & Genes portion) C-
Humanities D
Humanities F

Orgo II C
Introductory Physics I C
Humanities B
Humanities D

I have been distracted from my academics mostly by my humanities courses. This is due to a very complicated reason that I don't think is relevant to the topic here. My questions are: What do I have to do in the next few years to come back from such a low GPA? Do I even have a chance? Several posts on this thread have claimed that a good SMP or postbacc GPA won't help a low undergrad GPA too much. The Sponsorship page of HES also says that even with a sponsorship the chance of getting into med school with a 3.0 undergrad GPA is low.

 

[mm23]

Against a 2.78, excellent grades in a reputable program will NOT get you into med school in a short time. Against a 2.78, you're looking at 2, more likely 3 years before you're getting into med school, MD or DO.

true, it seems i was overambitious for Mcs. what i should have said was do a post-bacc to retake your pre-reqs, and then add some more ugrad coursework (1 or 3 years) to boost your gpa for an smp (after you have taken the mcat as well)

AACOMAS will forgive an old grade for repeated coursework in the cumulative GPA calcs. But AACOMAS will list every grade ever earned on any college transcript. There for all to see.

i'm aware of this, i contemplated the wording when i wrote it. everyone must submit all of their collegiate coursework to everyone. i only meant to exemplify the differences in aacomas and amcas.

Does the answer quoted above apply to me as well? Is the following route the only way I can get into med school:

1. Post-bacc to retake prereqs
2. Take some more undergrad classes after post-bacc
3. Enroll in a SMP
Finally: Apply to med school

 

[mm23]

One final question: How do summer classes that do not count towards my college degree count towards my undergrad GPA?

That is, if I were to get all As in 12 upper div science classes (all taken during regular school year) and 8 humanities classes (4 taken during regular school years, 4 taken during summers) so that my final GPA is 3.0-3.2, do I stand a chance, and what more should I do after graduation to enhance my record?

 

[Big Moishe]

I'm looking for ppl who either have completed either of the programs or know about these 2 postbacc programs and could offer feedback as to which one might better? There were old threads but I'm looking for updated info! I'm deciding between the 2. Also, I'm a Cali resident so the locations don't matter to me so much.

I have great extra-curriculars, and LOR 3.55 oGPA, 3.5 sGPA, 27Q (9,9,9) on MCAT.

Thanks

 

[jslo85]

I'm looking for ppl who either have completed either of the programs or know about these 2 postbacc programs and could offer feedback as to which one might better? There were old threads but I'm looking for updated info! I'm deciding between the 2. Also, I'm a Cali resident so the locations don't matter to me so much.

I have great extra-curriculars, and LOR 3.55 oGPA, 3.5 sGPA, 27Q (9,9,9) on MCAT.

Thanks

To be honest with the stats you're giving me, I would retake your MCAT and boost your E.Cs. (research publication, OR experience, something unique) and apply very early and broadly instead of spending money on one of those SMP style programs. With a score of a 32+ and your stats, I'm willing to bet that you're able to get a few interviews.

An SMP with a 3.5 cGPA and sGPA is not worth it in my opinion for both the risk and the additional cost and would not substantially help your application.

 

[jslo85]

To mm23:

I don't have too much time right now which is why I won't go into too much detail but if you want a better response, PM me.

The fact that your problem is the poor grades in the humanities reflects on your cGPA which is one of the two considerations for GPA requirements. Most SMPs require a minimum cutoff grade to even review your application which would for general purposes be a 3.0 in either one. Your science grades are really not too hot either which is a huge problem.

If you are willing to consider osteopathic school, it would go a long way to helping expedite the lengthy process of getting your application up to "reviewable" standards for an SMP.

You are also only a sophomore so at least your unit count is still relatively low. You must do well from your Junior year on out and expect to have at least a glide year to repeat/boost your GPA at the very very least. Schools look hard on an upward trend in your latter 2 years.

Good luck

 

[bluv1212]

Hi everyone. I applied pretty late to this current cycle and received one interview. I knew applying late was detrimental but life happend - I also realize now that my GPA, specifically my science GPA is really subpar.

While officially graduated with ~3.4 cGPA with Honors from the University of Connecticut, I neglected the fact that the MCAST does not accommodate repeat classes - that all classes stand alone. On the MCAST my cGPA is ~3.0, BCPM is~2.8, and my AO is ~3.6.

My MCAT is 30R (10ps,10v,10bs)

All these factors, in addition to my lack of success this cycle, have led me to believe that I desperately need to take part in an SMP.

I do have decent extracurriculars

2 years of research, couple years of volunteering ( hopsital, community-based), college organizations, etc.

I have some questions, though:

1) the official thread says you apply to med before the start of your SMP and send updates often. While I see how this might aid in getting you interviews, I am concerned that I would be languishing at the bottom of the applicant pool at most schools despite my best efforts in the SMP. Does anyone get accepted into medical school before completion of their SMP, or will i have to wait another year? How effective is Bostons U's SMP program in getting students into their own medical school, and or, others? Can you suggest any others in the NY-New England area that will allow me to complete in 1 year - I am pretty afraid that my only option is BU and it seems difficult to get into and I feel like i am late.

2)How does financial aid work? do i just fill out my fafsa, send it to the SMP before I apply to get aid for the fall?

3)How do students enlisted in an SMP attend interviews despite a challenging curriculum? Is it difficult to manage?


Thank you for any insight. I need to get on this soon to ensure my spot in the program, so quick responses are much appreciated.

 

[deleted248403]

I responded to your thread - please don't double post, it confuses people as two separate convos on the same topic go on. Please keep it in your thread seen as you started it

 

[bluv1212]

I responded to your thread - please don't double post, it confuses people as two separate convos on the same topic go on. Please keep it in your thread seen as you started it

I'm sorry. It just seemed like no one was gonna post. I felt like this was more appropriate. maybe I'll delete the other thread.

 

[deleted248403]

You can't delete threads unless you are a mod...

Plus you waited a grand total of about 25 minutes between making your thread and posting in here. I think a little more patience might be in order, this place isnt as hopping as some of the other forums.

 

[bluv1212]

You can't delete threads unless you are a mod...

Okay, noted. Thanks for responding. I'm not trying to disrupt the order, I'm just feeling really desperate at the moment and at a loss for what to do.

 

[klmnop]

wait i'm confused, i could have sworn i saw this question in another thread.... whats going on?

 

[bluv1212]

Yea sorry, I had an hour window of complete desperation in which I posted 3 times, 2 of which are separate threads in different forums, in an effort to maximize timely responses. Please excuse me.

 

[klmnop]

haha, no i know, i was screwing around. it happens far too frequently. the apology is appreciated however.

 

[bluv1212]

Haha. You can never tell on here. The levity is much appreciated though. lol I think my words read like a dork's when i'm worried and frustrated.

Any advice man?

Can you relate to what I'm going through?

 

[klmnop]

Any advice man?

not sure what mcast is. i do know that the amcas averages retakes though. is your 3.4 w/only the retakes counted or the avg. of old classes + retakes as calculated by amcas.

 

[bluv1212]

not sure what mcast is. i do know that the amcas averages retakes though. is your 3.4 w/only the retakes counted or the avg. of old classes + retakes as calculated by amcas.

3.4 is a what it says on my official transcript since UCONN replaces for a repeat. i guess the average would be the lower numbers. MCAST is a term i picked up from my friends who are in medschool referencing the application - i don't know where it comes from but it seems to avoid confusion when i speak to them; maybe they made it up, but yea i mean the AMCAs, sorry.

 

[klmnop]

3.4 is a what it says on my official transcript since UCONN replaces for a repeat. i guess the average would be the lower numbers. MCAST is a term i picked up from my friends who are in medschool referencing the application - i don't know where it comes from but it seems to avoid confusion when i speak to them; maybe they made it up, but yea i mean the AMCAs, sorry.

does your transcript show the original course as well, or just the last one

 

[jslo85]

Hi everyone. I applied pretty late to this current cycle and received one interview. I knew applying late was detrimental but life happend - I also realize now that my GPA, specifically my science GPA is really subpar.

While officially graduated with ~3.4 cGPA with Honors from the University of Connecticut, I neglected the fact that the MCAST does not accommodate repeat classes - that all classes stand alone. On the MCAST my cGPA is ~3.0, BCPM is~2.8, and my AO is ~3.6.

My MCAT is 30R (10ps,10v,10bs)

All these factors, in addition to my lack of success this cycle, have led me to believe that I desperately need to take part in an SMP.

I do have decent extracurriculars

2 years of research, couple years of volunteering ( hopsital, community-based), college organizations, etc.

I have some questions, though:

1) the official thread says you apply to med before the start of your SMP and send updates often. While I see how this might aid in getting you interviews, I am concerned that I would be languishing at the bottom of the applicant pool at most schools despite my best efforts in the SMP. Does anyone get accepted into medical school before completion of their SMP, or will i have to wait another year? How effective is Bostons U's SMP program in getting students into their own medical school, and or, others? Can you suggest any others in the NY-New England area that will allow me to complete in 1 year - I am pretty afraid that my only option is BU and it seems difficult to get into and I feel like i am late.

2)How does financial aid work? do i just fill out my fafsa, send it to the SMP before I apply to get aid for the fall?

3)How do students enlisted in an SMP attend interviews despite a challenging curriculum? Is it difficult to manage?

So Rob answered most of your questions on the other thread and the advice is sound.

I'll post down my own thoughts since you seem to be looking for them as well as some additional information about the numbered questions in your post.

You're right in your assessment. Your cGPA is low for allopathic standards and your sGPA is really below par. Your MCAT is not a problem to get into an SMP but for allopathic schools, a retake for a higher score 33+ would leave you in a far better position. Your E.C.s are not a problem but I personally feel they could use quite a bit of improvement when applying for medical school. Again, people may disagree with me, but I believe 2 years of research is insignificant if you have nothing to show for it, ie. publications, abstracts, presentations or at the very least a strong LOR from your PI. I don't know about your LOR but I'll assume they're solid. Some more clinical experience can't hurt either.

Now for your questions.

There are many instances of students getting accepted their first year of their SMP. You need to submit your AMCAS/AACOMAS application at the beginning of the cycle and put down the program and predicted coursework under graduate GPA and update the school regularly when semester grades are released. This is generally not recommended but it can be done if you feel your application would be worthy of being considered for acceptance after just one semester of grades.

BU MAMS is a solid reputable program that is well regarded if you are looking at SMPs. I don't think that they are known for getting their students into their own medical school but they have good percentages in getting their MAMS students into medical school in general. UMDNJ and Tufts are two programs that are also in the general area that you speak of.

Financial aid is something I'm not overly familiar with. Stafford loans and private loans are available. Whatever program you enter should send you a matriculation package including most of the information and papers you are asking about.

You attend interviews by simply making time. For the SMP that I am in, you can fill out an excused absence form to request an excused absence and I think this policy varies from program to program. Simply put, you just need to somehow make time.

I will say that you are quite late in the cycle for most SMPs but I have read enough past posts that have instances of students being accepted into the program on or very near the deadline.

Good luck and try not to be over-zealous in creating new threads ^^

 

[CanadianMaple]

Hi all,

As a Canadian student, I realize that it will be an uphill battle for me in the U.S. Nevertheless, I'm willing to give it a shot.

I'm applying to SMP programs and have applied to the BMS program at RFU thus far. Now, besides looking at program quality, % acceptances to med school and costs, I also need to take into consideration how internationally-, specifically Canadian-friendly, the school is. RFU is one of the more 'Canadian-friendly' schools out there and is thus why I chose to apply. In addition to this, since the risks of doing an SMP as a Canadian are higher, I would really like to look into programs that have 'linkages' to their host med school like RFU. Although such linkages are not explicitly stated or advertised, some schools do favour their students moreso than others. So besides RFU, I'm wondering what other schools would be recommended with such 'linkages' and that are internationally-friendly (I feel like I'm asking for too much, urghh!). I have looked through the stickies and it seems EVMS is a good one but unfortunately I've missed their SMP deadline. While Georgetown and BU are well-reputed programs, I will have to take the risk of applying broadly to med programs as an international student, which doesn't look too good for me even with the SMP.

Anyways, klmnop has been very helpful in providing info and it'd be great if anyone else has any input, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

 

[acetabulum7]

My friend has a 2.8 overall and 2.7 science with MCAT 21K. Is there a 1-year SMP that would take her and enable her to get into a D.O. school as long as she got all As and Bs? Or is it a must for her to retake the MCAT?

 

[klmnop]

My friend has a 2.8 overall and 2.7 science with MCAT 21K. Is there a 1-year SMP that would take her and enable her to get into a D.O. school as long as she got all As and Bs? Or is it a must for her to retake the MCAT?

retake... with the intent of getting at least 26/27 at minimum

 

[DrMidlife]

My friend has a 2.8 overall and 2.7 science with MCAT 21K. Is there a 1-year SMP that would take her and enable her to get into a D.O. school as long as she got all As and Bs? Or is it a must for her to retake the MCAT?

It's a must if she doesn't want to fail out of DO school after accumulating over $100k debt after the SMP. Seriously, those grades and scores are very handy information about the capacity to thrive or not in med school. So you get in, then what?

retake... with the intent of getting at least 26/27 at minimum

👍

 

[jslo85]

My friend has a 2.8 overall and 2.7 science with MCAT 21K. Is there a 1-year SMP that would take her and enable her to get into a D.O. school as long as she got all As and Bs? Or is it a must for her to retake the MCAT?

You would be hard pressed to find any SMP, allopathic or osteopathic, that would accept her based off of that low of an MCAT and that GPA.

The only osteopathic SMPs that I know of that will more or less "guarantee" an acceptance upon completion of their program would be LECOM (1 year), Nova (2), maybe VCOM (too early to tell) (1), maybe Touro NV M.H.S. (too early to tell), Touro NY Masters, and KCOM (2). If you're looking at strictly 1 year programs, theres obviously LECOM, AZCOM MA, PCOM certificate, WC-COM biomed, and possibly LMU-DCOM but they will require you to have a lag year after their 1 year program.

I'm going to LECOM's SMP for the fall and I will say that the deadline for the program is technically not up so your friend can try to apply. Her MCAT is below the minimum required for the program, much less the medical school and her GPA is also well below the average accepted biomedical student but it can't hurt to try. For all essential purposes, retake the MCAT, even if she gets into an SMP, she won't get into the medical school or qualify for the guaranteed interview.

Good luck

 

[jslo85]

Yeah I apologize about that. Guess I wasn't too clear in outlining that out but the MCAT is the more troubling section for SMPs because as a general rule of thumb, any good SMP won't accept your application if they don't feel you have a chance of getting into medical school after completion.

I don't know the breakdown of your friend's score but most if not all medical schools have a minimum of a 7 in each of the three sections and even then, a 21 on the MCAT isn't going to get you any favors anywhere you look. If she's willing to take the MCAT during the program or take a glide year, then like Guju said, a GRE may be a short term solution to get into an SMP.

 

[acetabulum7]

Thanks for all the quick responses, everyone. Yah, I think retaking the MCAT for a better score would be essential to prepare yourself for med school anyway.

However, I called up WCU-COM and they said they may accept her in their SMP program and subsequently accept her to their own Osteopathic program if she did well without having to retake the MCAT. Western U said the same thing, though their MCAT minimum for their SMP is a 23. In other words, a high MCAT score is only necessary if you plan to apply to other Osteopathic programs outside of the one linked with your SMP school.

Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[DrMidlife]

Thanks for all the quick responses, everyone. Yah, I think retaking the MCAT for a better score would be essential to prepare yourself for med school anyway.

If this friend of yours was a friend of mine, I'd sit them down and explain how expensive, embarrassing and generally horrible it will be to get into med school without having proven to him/herself that he/she can handle it. For the love of all that's holy figure out how to get killer grades and how to do really well on standardized tests BEFORE you start med school.

However, I called up WCU-COM and they said they may accept her in their SMP program and subsequently accept her to their own Osteopathic program if she did well without having to retake the MCAT. Western U said the same thing, though their MCAT minimum for their SMP is a 23. In other words, a high MCAT score is only necessary if you plan to apply to other Osteopathic programs outside of the one linked with your SMP school.

Right, aim for the bottom. So, is your friend thinking there are no more standardized tests after the MCAT? Does your friend expect to pay off $300k in student loans on a $90k FP salary?

The people who run an SMP are not the same people who run admissions. You're taking a leap of faith if you depend on a biomed program director to do the right thing by you, against profoundly inadequate numbers.

Regardless of what any one DO school will do for you, what do you need to do for yourself?!?!? You need to be good at taking standardized hours-long exams.

Retake the freaking MCAT.

 

[acetabulum7]

Retake the freaking MCAT.

I think that would sum it up in a nutshell. 👍