The official rotation thread

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owlegrad said:
When I went to the diabetes camp there were no pharmacists. One of the faculty was listed as my preceptor. I think I met him once in person during the whole rotation period.
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How were you graded? Who was your supervisor?
 
Bbed said:
How were you graded? Who was your supervisor?
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Sorry I should have been more clear. A member of the schools faulty, a professor, was listed as my preceptor. I was supervised by the camp director and graded according to how well I functioned at camp.
 
owlegrad said:
Sorry I should have been more clear. A member of the schools faulty, a professor, was listed as my preceptor. I was supervised by the camp director and graded according to how well I functioned at camp.
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just curious, what did you do at the camp? what is your typical day like?
 
msweph said:
I know few people that had an anesthesia rotation. Their oreceptor was an anesthesiologist. Seems reasonable- as it is a specialty area pharmacists aren't involved in. I think the OR pharmacist was listed as his on paper preceptor
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so what the pharmacy student is doing there ?? and why ??
 
msweph said:
Do you know how many calls I get from the OR? Well worth a month of time.
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lol

but the point is it sounds like those types of "pharmacy" rotation are common and not illegal.

If so, if those newish schools ever run short of rotation sites, they can let some barber to watch over those PharmD students... why not ?? pharmacists never are there before.... and when they come back the whole school can get free hair cuts... 🙂 lol jk
 
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Bbed said:
just curious, what did you do at the camp? what is your typical day like?
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Camp stuff. Make sure the kids are eating, getting their insulin, safe, having a good time, etc. Typical day was a day of camp life. You are never really "off". I really enjoyed it.

Also I described it in more detail in my rotation thread which can be found in my sig.
 
owlegrad said:
Camp stuff. Make sure the kids are eating, getting their insulin, safe, having a good time, etc. Typical day was a day of camp life. You are never really "off". I really enjoyed it.

Also I described it in more detail in my rotation thread which can be found in my sig.
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and I wonder why they have not done " home babysitting" or even "barber" rotations yet... hmm :thinking::thinking:
 
msweph said:
Class of 2018... Don't think you can really judge any rotations utility at this point. Have you even started school?
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pardon my sarcasm... my bad... but I'd really like to learn... seriously, why are those rotations like such above ?? to serve what purposes ??

but obviously, as you can see, there is no explanation and not enough info for a prepharmer like me to understand why. Enlighten me please.
 
^^ seriously, nobody ?? (sigh)
 
I'm starting my P1 year. I actually get my white coat tomorrow and have been reading through this for ideas while on rotations. Thanks for the suggestions. Thankfully my school grades rotations as complete or not complete. They do take evaluations but ultimately either you went or you did not.
 
owlegrad said:
Camp stuff. Make sure the kids are eating, getting their insulin, safe, having a good time, etc. Typical day was a day of camp life. You are never really "off". I really enjoyed it.

Also I described it in more detail in my rotation thread which can be found in my sig.
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do you also get to live at the camp site?! that would be a pretty nice change of environment
 
Any unwritten rules on what not to do/say during a retail pharmacy rotation?
 
Act like a normal respectful person and you'll be alright.
 
oldstock said:
Call the state board of pharmacy and/or ACPE. This does not sound right to me...

And what school is it, if you don't mind sharing ?? :thinking::thinking:
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I checked with a law professor and according to him, it is legal because I am not dispensing any medications. I am there to learn and therefore, i can work under a NP
 
Bbed said:
I checked with a law professor and according to him, it is legal because I am not dispensing any medications. I am there to learn and therefore, i can work under a NP
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Thanks for checking on that info. Then again, how is that rotation relevant and benefiting to the pharmacy education ??

My speculation is that they ran out of rotation sites....
 
oldstock said:
Thanks for checking on that info. Then again, how is that rotation relevant and benefiting to the pharmacy education ??

My speculation is that they ran out of rotation sites....
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I still think it is weird that my preceptor is not a pharmacist. I figure it is different and I get to learn what other healthcare professionals are doing.
 
Bbed said:
I spoke with the rotation coordinator and she said my preceptor doesn't have to be a pharmacist. She said I would be working with medications but I won't be dispensing. It would also give me a good opportunity to learn what other professionals do.
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What category is this rotation though? Are you doing something like med rec?
 
I once had a rotation underneath a pulmonologist and tagged along his other medical students. I learned alot of about vent settings that I never retained, but it was an amazing rotation. I was asked my opinion on drug therapy and answered any questions the patient had about their drug therapy.
 
Bbed said:
I spoke with the rotation coordinator and she said my preceptor doesn't have to be a pharmacist. She said I would be working with medications but I won't be dispensing. It would also give me a good opportunity to learn what other professionals do.
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I had at least one rotation where I worked as the drug resource for a NP. I had multiple rotations as a resident where I had physicians as preceptors because we didn't have pharmacists in that specialty in that area.

I had a student earlier this year have a rotation primarily with NPs in a community health clinic, and she reported very positively about the rotation.
 
Also, I don't give mostly As on my rotation. I give mostly Bs with a handful of As and the occasional C.

I give the lower grades for lack of improvement during the rotation. If you get the same questions wrong in week 6 as week 1 I will want to fail you and see you as a waste of my time. I'm big on explaining and discussing things - it's not like I said "wrong! look it up!" on week 1.

Students start at different baselines and improve with different degrees. I get that. I've implemented a pre and post test to help gauge how much they learned, but it's not perfect. My worst (and laziest) student admitted that when rotations do that he just spends the entire rotation trying to recall the pretest so that he can get those right on the post test. So it's not perfect, but at least it's a concrete measure I can use on evaluations.
 
Since I am working under an NP, can I includes those hours as my required internship hours?
 
Update: working under a NP has been going well. I follow her around as she makes diagnosis. I put together the patient's med profile and make therapy recommendations.
 
Bbed said:
Update: working under a NP has been going well. I follow her around as she makes diagnosis. I put together the patient's med profile and make therapy recommendations.
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if you could, would you please describe your typical day there ?? I'm curious to know what and how it is like... thanks.
 
oldstock said:
if you could, would you please describe your typical day there ?? I'm curious to know what and how it is like... thanks.
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It is an outpatient/inpatient rotation. In the morning, I would round with the team which consists of med students, an NP and sometimes an MD. We speak with the patients and go over their charts to see if we need to do anything. In the afternoon, we see patients in our outpatient clinic. I would watch them diagnose and help them write the progress notes. I would then make therapy recommendation. I also write the prescription for them and the NP would sign it. It is really different and I am glad I have an opportunity to have this experience. It gives you a good prospective of what the "other side" is doing.
 
I round with a couple of med students and I feel like one of them is just using me to do his work like write his drug recommendations. I wonder if this is common?
 
Bbed said:
I really feel 6 week rotation is really unnecessary. By the 4th week, either you know it or you don't.
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Not all the time. I felt like my community rotation should have been 2 weeks max, don't need a month there. Amb care could have been cut to 3 weeks from 4 weeks. But I thought internal med should have been longer, at least 6 weeks and rotating thru different departments. Should have been able to experience working with an ID team, cardiology team, NICU, peds, etc.
 
Has anyone ever had to work on a weekend? My preceptor wants me to start to come in every Sat. Is this common? I don't particularly mind but I have an internship on Sat.
 
Bbed said:
Has anyone ever had to work on a weekend? My preceptor wants me to start to come in every Sat. Is this common? I don't particularly mind but I have an internship on Sat.
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I don't think weekend is common. Usually schools would schedule your rotations/internships on week days.

If you are not scheduled by the school to come in on weekend, ask your preceptor why you should go in on weekend now and/or talk to the school for advice and guidance.
 
Not generally.

But for my community rotation I think I worked 2 weekends because thats when my preceptor was there. But I had a heads up it would be happening and the week before Thanksgiving she told me she was off that week and so I was off so I spent the holiday week nursing my sick 5 month old. I worked my ass off for her after that.
 
Is it normal to feel like you're learning squat in a community rotation? Reason why I ask is that all I do is pull the stock bottles for the pharmacist to count and call patients to let them know their meds are ready or the meds can be refilled. I'm not even allowed to count non-controlled medications yet, and it's already the halfway point for my internship.
 
Sugoi Travis said:
Is it normal to feel like you're learning squat in a community rotation? Reason why I ask is that all I do is pull the stock bottles for the pharmacist to count and call patients to let them know their meds are ready or the meds can be refilled. I'm not even allowed to count non-controlled medications yet, and it's already the halfway point for my internship.
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Sounds like you're at a place where interns = free labor. Don't be a coward loser and give your preceptor 5/5 stars and raving reviews during the evaluation. Seriously, that pisses me off when students do that. As someone that wants to teach the future pharmacist, that would piss me off for a student to tell me I'm doing a great job when in reality I'm terrible.

By the way, remember when your preceptor asked you "what do you want to do when you graduate"? That wasn't curiosity. When a student tells me "I don't want to do hospital, I'm gung ho retail", I really don't invest much in the student. I give them a basic experience and send them on their way. Why should I go out of my way to teach someone who doesn't want to learn? Not fair for either party involved.
 
BenJammin said:
Sounds like you're at a place where interns = free labor. Don't be a coward loser and give your preceptor 5/5 stars and raving reviews during the evaluation. Seriously, that pisses me off when students do that. As someone that wants to teach the future pharmacist, that would piss me off for a student to tell me I'm doing a great job when in reality I'm terrible.
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agreed. But in reality, this is easily said than done. It would be easy esp if you are already the pharmacist... 😉


By the way, remember when your preceptor asked you "what do you want to do when you graduate"? That wasn't curiosity. When a student tells me "I don't want to do hospital, I'm gung ho retail", I really don't invest much in the student. I give them a basic experience and send them on their way. Why should I go out of my way to teach someone who doesn't want to learn? Not fair for either party involved.
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so there is not much to learn in retail I guess ?? so what would you think about those community pharmacy residencies ?? and what is wrong with genuinely wanting to do retail//community pharmacy ??

and if the student said "yes I wanna do a residency and hospital pharmacy", how would you teach them all about you wanna teach in a retail pharmacy ?? I guess you can only say that when you and the student are working in a hospital....

then I could see that most students would tailor their answers for your questions depending where they do their rotations... most prob do not want to offend their receptors... after all, how well you know them or they know you ?? esp you have their "lives" in your hands... it only takes one "wrong" answer to ruin their lives... (sorry I must read too much from SDN 🙂 )

but then again, if it would be easy to find a job in hospital pharmacy these days... most available jobs are still in retail...

and I hate the new SDN interface... it is so "white".... lol
 
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oldstock said:
so there is not much to learn in retail I guess ?? so what would you think about those community pharmacy residencies ?? and what is wrong with genuinely wanting to do retail//community pharmacy ??

and if the student said "yes I wanna do a residency and hospital pharmacy", how would you teach them all about you wanna teach in a retail pharmacy ?? I guess you can only say that when you and the student are working in a hospital....

then I could see that most students would tailor their answers for your questions depending where they do their rotations... most prob do not want to offend their receptors... after all, how well you know them or they know you ?? esp you have their "lives" in your hands... it only takes one "wrong" answer to ruin their lives... (sorry I must read too much from SDN 🙂 )

but then again, if it would be easy to find a job in hospital pharmacy these days... most available jobs are still in retail...

and I hate the new SDN interface... it is so "white".... lol
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You're missing the point. I'm a hospital pharmacist. If a student wants to do hospital pharmacy then I will be gung-ho with them! I'm not a full time retail pharmacist so I can't tell them how to practice on a daily basis. The easiest answer to "what do you want to do when you graduate" is "I really don't know but I'm keeping my mind open in case [current rotation] is something I really want to do".
 
BenJammin said:
Sounds like you're at a place where interns = free labor. Don't be a coward loser and give your preceptor 5/5 stars and raving reviews during the evaluation. Seriously, that pisses me off when students do that. As someone that wants to teach the future pharmacist, that would piss me off for a student to tell me I'm doing a great job when in reality I'm terrible.

By the way, remember when your preceptor asked you "what do you want to do when you graduate"? That wasn't curiosity. When a student tells me "I don't want to do hospital, I'm gung ho retail", I really don't invest much in the student. I give them a basic experience and send them on their way. Why should I go out of my way to teach someone who doesn't want to learn? Not fair for either party involved.
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The funny thing is when my preceptor asked me that same exact question on my first day of rotations, I told her that I wanted to go into retail. Weeks later, I'm still doing the same things: pulling stock bottles from the shelves, calling patients to let them know about their refills, and counting non-controlled meds (when my preceptor is not on shift). I honestly don't have a such a huge issue with this; if pulling bottles and calling people gets me to pass the rotation, then I'll do it. At least my bases are covered and my job is providing me with the retail experience I need.
 
oldstock said:
I don't think weekend is common. Usually schools would schedule your rotations/internships on week days.

If you are not scheduled by the school to come in on weekend, ask your preceptor why you should go in on weekend now and/or talk to the school for advice and guidance.
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I spoke with my preceptor about it and she's not happy. This is supposed to be a learning experience for but I think they want someone there on Sat so they don't have to have a tech come in.
 
Bbed said:
I spoke with my preceptor about it and she's not happy. This is supposed to be a learning experience for but I think they want someone there on Sat so they don't have to have a tech come in.
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You should definitely let the school know this situation to cover your base. Many schools even prohibit students to do their rotations that are not in school's assigned/scheduled time unless there is an emergency and there is a need for one-time make up.

Sounds like you are being taken advantage of...
 
what gift to buy for my IPPE site before leaving?
I was there for a year, pretty close to 3 pharmacists and 1 tech.

need your advice!
 
a student said:
what gift to buy for my IPPE site before leaving?
I was there for a year, pretty close to 3 pharmacists and 1 tech.

need your advice!
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I always bring treats like cookies or a cake for everyone to eat so I don't seem to be selective at who get things from me. This way everyone is happy. Writing a nice thank you card is also a nice gesture.
 
oldstock said:
You should definitely let the school know this situation to cover your base. Many schools even prohibit students to do their rotations that are not in school's assigned/scheduled time unless there is an emergency and there is a need for one-time make up.

Sounds like you are being taken advantage of...
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yeah you are probably right but i just want to do my thing and leave.
 
So my rotation ended. Don't know if any other students experienced something similar to me, but on my evals my preceptor asked me if I knew about X aspect of retail pharmacy (formularies, MTM, etc etc). I wasn't taught by the preceptor about any of those things and it's pretty much a kick in the nuts that the eval is graded. Basically, I got graded on things when I wasn't taught at all. Any of you guys able to relate?
 
Sugoi Travis said:
So my rotation ended. Don't know if any other students experienced something similar to me, but on my evals my preceptor asked me if I knew about X aspect of retail pharmacy (formularies, MTM, etc etc). I wasn't taught by the preceptor about any of those things and it's pretty much a kick in the nuts that the eval is graded. Basically, I got graded on things when I wasn't taught at all. Any of you guys able to relate?
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was your preceptor quizzing you? how did she grade you?
 
Bbed said:
was your preceptor quizzing you? how did she grade you?
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She wasn't quizzing me. She literally didn't tell me anything outside of pulling drugs from the shelf and calling patients to let them know that their meds will be returned to stock. The eval was graded based on a 0-4 scale set by my pharmacy school where 0 = 0%, 1=25%, 2=50% and so on.
 
Has anyone ever failed a rotation? did your school let you make up for it?
 
Sugoi Travis said:
So my rotation ended. Don't know if any other students experienced something similar to me, but on my evals my preceptor asked me if I knew about X aspect of retail pharmacy (formularies, MTM, etc etc). I wasn't taught by the preceptor about any of those things and it's pretty much a kick in the nuts that the eval is graded. Basically, I got graded on things when I wasn't taught at all. Any of you guys able to relate?
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My LTC preceptor did the same thing to me. Gave me like a 2 out of 5 for knowing regulatory stuff for LTC when she hatdly even taught me any of that. How was I supposed to know about it. They don't teach that stuff in class and she didn't even quiz me to assess my knowledge anyways. She was my worst preceptor.
 
GoldfishPharmD said:
My LTC preceptor did the same thing to me. Gave me like a 2 out of 5 for knowing regulatory stuff for LTC when she hatdly even taught me any of that. How was I supposed to know about it. They don't teach that stuff in class and she didn't even quiz me to assess my knowledge anyways. She was my worst preceptor.
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Did you tell your school about that ?? And what did they do ??
 
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