The Research Myth

[sanchopanza]

I find it interesting that so many schools, particularly the top ones, seem to place such emphasis on research (e.g. Johns Hopkins; see their little blurb at http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/admissions/research.html). Not only is research a virtual prerequisite for admission, but it appears that med school will itself be very research-heavy.

However, when you look at the stats, a large percentage of graduates from these places go on to primary care (according to US News and World Report, Hopkins sends 36%, Harvard 42%). Also, I've heard from students at both these school who've gone through the whole process without setting foot in a research lab.

I don't mean to imply that going into primary care and doing research are on opposite poles of a spectrum, but I'm puzzled by the emphasis on research that these schools project for themselves--to the point that if you're not into research, an advisor might tell you not to apply to Hopkins. Do you think this is misleading? Do you think smart people who have loved their research experiences and who want to do primary care ought to go to places like Hopkins, or would they be better off elsewhere?

-Sancho

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[DrBowtie]

A) According to the MSAR, between 80-90% of incoming students reported participating in undergraduate research. You tell me if they think its unimportant.

B) The primary care stats are misleading since a lot of the IM matches are intent on subspecializing in Cards, GI, Heme/Onc etc.

 

[sanchopanza]

I didn't mean to imply that research isn't extremely important--that's very clear. About your second point, that's interesting, and a little upsetting (assuming that the stats are in fact misleading so)...does that mean that students with an interest in primary care, like I asked before, ought to look elsewhere for med school?

I suppose I'm just seeing a rift in schools' qualifications/reputation. It seems like you have the research-intensive schools on one end and those with an emphasis on primary care on the other. I don't like that rift because of what it means for us who love research but want to go into primary care (which is just as "scientific" a calling as any specialty or sub-specialty).

-Sancho

 

[tdd340]

Top school want to be on the cutting edge of medicine. Research is what puts you on the cutting edge so students who show this inclination are the ones of most interest to these schools. A schools focus on research is not a negative and does not preclude those interested in primary care from attending.

 

[littlealex]

If you love research and want to go into primary care, by all means apply to the top research schools. Dude, being from Hopkins doesn't preclude you from going into Primary care...

Top schools like researchers because they wish to train future Head of Departments and others who may be famous in the future.

 

[notdeadyet]

A) According to the MSAR, between 80-90% of incoming students reported participating in undergraduate research. You tell me if they think its unimportant.

And about 80% of applicants participate in campus science clubs. But is it important?

Research is a nice feather in your cap, but applicants do it because many applicants before them have done it. It's far from a requirement at 90% of the schools out there. If you're interested in academic medicine, it's a must, but if your aspirations are primary care and you taylor your application that way...

Research is akin to an MCAT prep course. Everyone buys into the need of it, but you'd be amazed how many do fine without. To each their own. I have zero research experience and it never came up at any of my interview, including UCSF.

B) The primary care stats are misleading since a lot of the IM matches are intent on subspecializing in Cards, GI, Heme/Onc etc.

Right on. Next time a school tells you about the % of grads going into primary care, ask the percentage that are entering family practice residencies. That's a lot more telling.

 

[sanchopanza]

That's a shame to me, especially considering the shortage of primary care doctors out there today, a shortage that's not getting better anytime soon. I know that there's a strong connection between prestige and research, but what about addressing one of the major problems of health care today?

 

[premeddick]

That's a shame to me, especially considering the shortage of primary care doctors out there today, a shortage that's not getting better anytime soon. I know that there's a strong connection between prestige and research, but what about addressing one of the major problems of health care today?

Its not only that prestige is associated with research but money, income and pay is associated with specializing.

 

[Decicco]

Also, good residencies like to see research when you are applying

 

[Law2Doc]

I find it interesting that so many schools, particularly the top ones, seem to place such emphasis on research (e.g. Johns Hopkins; see their little blurb at http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/admissions/research.html). Not only is research a virtual prerequisite for admission, but it appears that med school will itself be very research-heavy.

However, when you look at the stats, a large percentage of graduates from these places go on to primary care (according to US News and World Report, Hopkins sends 36%, Harvard 42%). Also, I've heard from students at both these school who've gone through the whole process without setting foot in a research lab.

I don't mean to imply that going into primary care and doing research are on opposite poles of a spectrum, but I'm puzzled by the emphasis on research that these schools project for themselves--to the point that if you're not into research, an advisor might tell you not to apply to Hopkins. Do you think this is misleading? Do you think smart people who have loved their research experiences and who want to do primary care ought to go to places like Hopkins, or would they be better off elsewhere?

-Sancho

I think you have some terminology confusion (likely based on the USNews lists). Research and primary care are not definitional opposites -- there is actually a ton of research going on in primary care fields (IM, peds, OB-- check out the names of journals in any med school and there is no shortage of publications in any of these). Primary care is really definitionally on the other end of the spectrum from "competitive specialties".

All schools, including the Hopkinses and Harvards of the world, will send a sizeable chunk (and most schools a majority) into primary care, because that is what most physicians work in. People go into fields based on liking them, not based on what they can get. Once you get past the competitive mindset of premeds jockying for high ranked schools, usually during rotations, you will be start to realize that you need to find something you can stand doing 60+ hours per week every week for the rest of your useful life. Believe it or not, it is not uncommon for the smartest person in a med school to choose a less competitive specialty because they like it -- they want to work with patients, they want to work with kids, or whatever. Just because you think you can "get" the most competitive residency doesn't mean you will enjoy it, and if you don't enjoy it, you lose, game over, thanks for playing.

 

[MossPoh]

I was under the assumption money was the only thing that makes one happy...damn

 

[premeddick]

I was under the assumption money was the only thing that makes one happy...damn

no... its chicks money power and chicks....