The secret to a happier, healthier life: Just retire

[BLADEMDA]

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For those that continue to save and plan for an early or even typical retirement this article is very interesting.

When do you plan to retire? Semi retire?


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-secret-to-a-happier-healthier-life-just-retire-2015-07-27

It may seem obvious, but it’s true: Retirement is better than working.

 

[BLADEMDA]

We find that retirement improves both happiness and health. We find that life satisfaction improves immediately upon retirement and these effects are long-lasting. While we don’t find immediate effects on measurable health outcomes, we do find positive health impacts four or more years beyond retirement. This finding is consistent with the idea that health changes slowly over time so that retirement can have long run health benefits. We find no effect of retirement on health care utilization.

What surprised you most about the findings?

We were surprised that the positive impact of retirement on reported well being was long lasting as many life events have been found to have only short-run effects that fade over time. Past studies also haven’t found measurable health impacts of retirement so the fact that there are long-run health benefits is a new finding. We believe that this finding is the result of data that covers a longer time period. Finally, our findings suggest that these health benefits are not the result of increased health care utilization as most measures of utilization are not affected by retirement.

 

[aneftp]

One of biggest advantages of the ACA is the ability of semi affluent people who are in their mid to late 50s even early 60s to retire.

Remember ACA is based on income NOT assets.

My neighbor owns a $800k home in Florida. Retired at age 54. Former bond trader. He's 58 now. Pre ACA he was paying close to $20k a year in health care premiums plus another $15k in health care deductibles. That's $35k out of pocket.

Now with ACA. He "makes" about 40-50k on "paper". Below the 400% poverty income threshold for him and his wife. Because he's "poor". He now pays only like $200-300 a month for his wife with a max out of pocket expense of around $4000-5000. (Can't remember ). But it significantly cheaper than what he was paying before.

So he's literally saving $25-30k a year on health premiums.

Think more and more semi affluent people will be able to retire with the ACA.

And this is exactly NOT the intention of the ACA. And my liberal friends fail to understand how many loopholes there are in the ACA.

 

[BLADEMDA]

More than half the people on SDN voted they plan to retire or semi-retire at age 55 or younger. As someone who is near that age how do they expect to do that exactly? With expected future market returns in the 4% range it will take a substantial portfolio to retire that young.

I guess their plan is to live "simply" in the $60K range or work part-time until age 65 to supplement their portfolio.

 

[pgg]

Simple, with the kids gone and the houses paid off, I don't need the $5 or $10 million portfolio that gets bandied around here as "necessary" to retire.

$2 million plus my government retirement cheese is the target.

Though I'll probably work part time for a while longer. Maybe spend more time doing charity work in a place I can't get sued.

 

[urge]

More than half the people on SDN voted they plan to retire or semi-retire at age 55 or younger. As someone who is near that age how do they expect to do that exactly? With expected future market returns in the 4% range it will take a substantial portfolio to retire that young.

I guess their plan is to live "simply" in the $60K range or work part-time until age 65 to supplement their portfolio.

Locum tenens a few months a year.

 

[BLADEMDA]

So, would anyone care to speculate who exactly will be doing all this "call" in 10-15 years when most on SDN want to semi-retire or will be fully retired? If this trend of working less, a lot less, holds true there should be plenty of job openings at AMCs and hospitals throughout the USA.

 

[urge]

So, would anyone care to speculate who exactly will be doing all this "call" in 10-15 years when most on SDN want to semi-retire or will be fully retired? If this trend of working less, a lot less, holds true there should be plenty of job openings at AMCs and hospitals throughout the USA.

CRNAs?

 

[urge]

For those that continue to save and plan for an early or even typical retirement this article is very interesting.

When do you plan to retire? Semi retire?


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-secret-to-a-happier-healthier-life-just-retire-2015-07-27

It may seem obvious, but it’s true: Retirement is better than working.

I have always thought about it the other way around: work kills.

 

[sevoflurane]

Current part-timer.

Don't plan on retiring any time soon though as I really enjoy the job, my colleagues and the patient centered problem solving.

 

[deleted126335]

So, would anyone care to speculate who exactly will be doing all this "call" in 10-15 years when most on SDN want to semi-retire or will be fully retired? If this trend of working less, a lot less, holds true there should be plenty of job openings at AMCs and hospitals throughout the USA.

Not so many of us will actually choose to go part time. Economy, stock market, real estate market, under employed kids who need help, longer life spans, slaves to the lifestyle, whatever.
Also, take a look at the numbers of graduates of residency programs. It is a major reason the job market is turning south. That is who will be taking more of the call.
Many of them will make the same choices we made- money for time.
Of course the return for them will be less than it was for us, So there probably won't be as many willing to do the super long hours. But there are plenty of people who will be slaves to their loans or to the lifestyle.

 

[aneftp]

So, would anyone care to speculate who exactly will be doing all this "call" in 10-15 years when most on SDN want to semi-retire or will be fully retired? If this trend of working less, a lot less, holds true there should be plenty of job openings at AMCs and hospitals throughout the USA.

Blade. The trend is more and more towards "shift work".

So "calls" will be replaced with "overnight shift weeks".

It's a natural evolution of the "safety" of anesthesia. There are numerous reports especially with older anesthesiologist that they are not as sharp in hours 18-24 as they are in the first 6-8 hours. It's just that simple especially at high acuity medical centers.

So the call system will be replaced with night float system. They do it at residency training programs all the time now. Not like in the past where we took 24 hour days even on weekdays. These days it seems many have night float replacing weekday calls.

 

[Psai]

Blade. The trend is more and more towards "shift work".

So "calls" will be replaced with "overnight shift weeks".

It's a natural evolution of the "safety" of anesthesia. There are numerous reports especially with older anesthesiologist that they are not as sharp in hours 18-24 as they are in the first 6-8 hours. It's just that simple especially at high acuity medical centers.

So the call system will be replaced with night float system. They do it at residency training programs all the time now. Not like in the past where we took 24 hour days even on weekdays. These days it seems many have night float replacing weekday calls.

I think it will go back to the 24 hour day. People who have done both seem to prefer those over night floats.

 

[pgg]

So, would anyone care to speculate who exactly will be doing all this "call" in 10-15 years when most on SDN want to semi-retire or will be fully retired? If this trend of working less, a lot less, holds true there should be plenty of job openings at AMCs and hospitals throughout the USA.

Well, it can't go both ways.

Either we're recklessly overproducing anesthesiologists and CRNAs and the future will have an abundance of "providers" available to work ... or we're not and the future won't. The market will pay enough money to get the shifts covered by someone.

 

[urge]

I think it will go back to the 24 hour day. People who have done both seem to prefer those over night floats.

I believe anything more than 12hrs is negligent.

Cognitive skills decline abruptly after that.

And I used to do 36hrs straight.

 

[deleted162650]

Current part-timer.

I hate you. 😀

Seeing as I have student loan debt, a stay-at-home-mom wife (we both wouldn't have it any other way), and I live in a pricey part of the country, I don't really have any delusions about early retirement. Instead, I hope to go 1/2ish time in my mid-50's and ride that out for however long. I think working/staying productive keeps you young and sharp. As long as I can work a couple weeks a month and use the rest of the time to do whatever I want I'll be happy.

There are 2 ways to be rich: One is make more, and the other is Desire less.

 

[GA8314]

I wish some of our senior guys would read this and hang it up already.

 

[mostwanted]

This is a great thread. I plan to be done by 50 or be part time. There was a great article by a hospice nurse asking ppl about their biggest regret at time of death, most common for men was worked too much.

I think the key is to be debt free, live within your means, and find what truly motivates you minus the materialistic grind.

Six months out, all debt paid off (including student loans) making good progress.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Well, it can't go both ways.

Either we're recklessly overproducing anesthesiologists and CRNAs and the future will have an abundance of "providers" available to work ... or we're not and the future won't. The market will pay enough money to get the shifts covered by someone.

I used to think that the residency programs were over-producing graduates. But, this thread has me reevaluating that premise since so many on here want to work fewer hours at a much earlier age than previous generations. Perhaps, when you factor in that part-time mentality the programs have it correct in their numbers.

 

[Wiscoblue]

I'm 55 and in 5 years I plan to hire an old fart like myself from SDN to split my job. 2 weeks on, 2 off. Work till 65 maybe.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I'm 55 and in 5 years I plan to hire an old fart like myself from SDN to split my job. 2 weeks on, 2 off. Work till 65 maybe.

Sounds good but I like the Southeast and the warmer weather.😉

 

[BLADEMDA]

Here are the top five regrets of the dying, as witnessed by Ware:

1. I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me.

"This was the most common regret of all. When people realise that their life is almost over and look back clearly on it, it is easy to see how many dreams have gone unfulfilled. Most people had not honoured even a half of their dreams and had to die knowing that it was due to choices they had made, or not made. Health brings a freedom very few realise, until they no longer have it."

2. I wish I hadn't worked so hard.

"This came from every male patient that I nursed. They missed their children's youth and their partner's companionship. Women also spoke of this regret, but as most were from an older generation, many of the female patients had not been breadwinners. All of the men I nursed deeply regretted spending so much of their lives on the treadmill of a work existence."

3. I wish I'd had the courage to express my feelings.

"Many people suppressed their feelings in order to keep peace with others. As a result, they settled for a mediocre existence and never became who they were truly capable of becoming. Many developed illnesses relating to the bitterness and resentment they carried as a result."

4. I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends.

"Often they would not truly realise the full benefits of old friends until their dying weeks and it was not always possible to track them down. Many had become so caught up in their own lives that they had let golden friendships slip by over the years. There were many deep regrets about not giving friendships the time and effort that they deserved. Everyone misses their friends when they are dying."

5. I wish that I had let myself be happier.

"This is a surprisingly common one. Many did not realise until the end that happiness is a choice. They had stayed stuck in old patterns and habits. The so-called 'comfort' of familiarity overflowed into their emotions, as well as their physical lives. Fear of change had them pretending to others, and to their selves, that they were content, when deep within, they longed to laugh properly and have silliness in their life again."


http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-five-regrets-of-the-dying

 

[sevoflurane]

Six months out, all debt paid off (including student loans) making good progress.

Well done. 👍

Exactly what I did. Paid everything off while maximizing my retirement portfolio. I caught a lot of grief for paying off my house, student loan debt, cars, etc... early on.
To me, that was a guaranteed return on investment vs. hoping you would get 5-8% in the market.

I hate you. 😀

Hey, hey now Salty... Let's not forget my stint in purgatory... AKA----> BFE anesthesia.

I'm making up for lost times bro!

This 7 foot dump we've had in the Sierras this past week has certainly helped make ends meet.

I don't think you necessarily need to retire early in order to lead a healthier, happier life.
At the same time, you shouldn't be killing it every second you get. At some point in everybody's life the body starts to break down.
For some that have been in the grind, it may be physically impossible to do the things they've always wanted to do at retirement age.

Moderation along the way in order to enjoy life here and now is always key.

 

[Psai]

I used to think that the residency programs were over-producing graduates. But, this thread has me reevaluating that premise since so many on here want to work fewer hours at a much earlier age than previous generations. Perhaps, when you factor in that part-time mentality the programs have it correct in their numbers.

Long hours just aren't worth it. Why make even more money if you don't have time to enjoy it? Life is short

 

[GA8314]

Well done. 👍

Exactly what I did. Paid everything off while maximizing my retirement portfolio. I caught a lot of grief for paying off my house, student loan debt, cars, etc... early on.
To me, that was a guaranteed return on investment vs. hoping you would get 5-8% in the market.



Hey, hey now Salty... Let's not forget my stint in purgatory... AKA----> BFE anesthesia.

I'm making up for lost times bro!

This 7 foot dump we've had in the Sierras this past week has certainly helped make ends meet.

I don't think you necessarily need to retire early in order to lead a healthier, happier life.
At the same time, you shouldn't be killing it every second you get. At some point in everybody's life the body starts to break down.
For some that have been in the grind, it may be physically impossible to do the things they've always wanted to do at retirement age.

Moderation along the way in order to enjoy life here and now is always key.

Good advice and perspective my man.

 

[deleted162650]

Well done. 👍

Exactly what I did. Paid everything off while maximizing my retirement portfolio. I caught a lot of grief for paying off my house, student loan debt, cars, etc... early on.
To me, that was a guaranteed return on investment vs. hoping you would get 5-8% in the market.



Hey, hey now Salty... Let's not forget my stint in purgatory... AKA----> BFE anesthesia.

I'm making up for lost times bro!

This 7 foot dump we've had in the Sierras this past week has certainly helped make ends meet.

I don't think you necessarily need to retire early in order to lead a healthier, happier life.
At the same time, you shouldn't be killing it every second you get. At some point in everybody's life the body starts to break down.
For some that have been in the grind, it may be physically impossible to do the things they've always wanted to do at retirement age.

Moderation along the way in order to enjoy life here and now is always key.

Awesome pics but man does it suck digging yourself out of waist deep + pow in the flats. Is the 2nd pic backcountry or at one of the resorts?

And I completely agree with what you said above. It's a lot easier to sit in an OR with shot knees and a sore back than it is to surf/snowboard/MX/etc. Don't be stupid with your finances, but don't squander your youth and health toiling away inside a box either. You can't ever get back those years like you can make up for lost income down the road.

I hate to quote a beer commercial, but "You get 1 life, Don't blow it"

 

[GA8314]

I used to think that the residency programs were over-producing graduates. But, this thread has me reevaluating that premise since so many on here want to work fewer hours at a much earlier age than previous generations. Perhaps, when you factor in that part-time mentality the programs have it correct in their numbers.

I'm a worker Blade..... I take a LOT of extra call for extra $$ I'm not alone either.

 

[primadonna22274]

Haha as a nearly 42-year-young resident, probably never. Or not before 70 lol. Good thing I love my work.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[Wiscoblue]

It's interesting that many people 'plan to work till age 70'. My brother is a professor (engineering) and he too plans to work for ever. The only thing that lots of people do not realize is that your health might not allow you to work till 70. So it makes sense to save as much as possible early in your career and be 'retirement ready' by 55. Then if your health permits, keep working for ever.

I just got a stent in my 90% LAD last month and I'm financially ready but I need a reason to get up in the morning so I will work till I'm 60. I'm glad I worked hard in my younger days and squirreled away as much as I could by living simply.

 

[sevoflurane]

Awesome pics but man does it suck digging yourself out of waist deep + pow in the flats. Is the 2nd pic backcountry or at one of the resorts?

Ha, Ha! Nope. That was a pic from one of our local resorts. Ended up getting another 2-3 feet after that pic.
The second one I did take. Top of local resort looking into the backcountry at 8:45 am. Powda puff!

I just got a stent in my 90% LAD last month and I'm financially ready but I need a reason to get up in the morning so I will work till I'm 60. I'm glad I worked hard in my younger days and squirreled away as much as I could by living simply.

Yup. I agree. Retiring entirely is not an option for me either.
1/2 time by 50 is a good goal I think.

 

[epidural man]

It may seem obvious, but it’s true: Retirement is better than working.

I've said it before. I like, maybe love - my job. I can't imagine doing anything else in medicine. However, there isn't a single minute at work I think - "I am so glad I am doing this instead of playing basketball with my son, or flying the RC plane with my other son (that he got for Christmas), or playing tennis with my wife, or playing craps at the casino, or recording a song on Logic Pro X, or having a golf lesson (I suck), or reading a book, or sitting in bed with my wife watching "Scott Pilgrim vs The World", or 100 other things I wish I had time to do."

 

[epidural man]

With expected future market returns in the 4% range it will take a substantial portfolio to retire that young.

1% on S&P this year. I did maybe 15%. I feel confident I can do that almost every year. I'm still learning though.....

Maybe I'll write a book on how....then I COULD retire early.

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[GA8314]

1% on S&P this year. I did maybe 15%. I feel confident I can do that almost every year. I'm still learning though.....

Maybe I'll write a book on how....then I COULD retire early.

Dude, check yourself. Good to hear, but if you think you're gonna be winning while trading, then it's just a matter of time.

I'm planning for 4-6% returns. Any better and I'll consider myself lucky.

 

[QofQuimica]

More than half the people on SDN voted they plan to retire or semi-retire at age 55 or younger. As someone who is near that age how do they expect to do that exactly? With expected future market returns in the 4% range it will take a substantial portfolio to retire that young.

I guess their plan is to live "simply" in the $60K range or work part-time until age 65 to supplement their portfolio.

There are 2 ways to be rich: One is make more, and the other is Desire less.

This. I chose the second method, which I would argue is significantly faster and easier than the first.

I will be done saving for retirement this year at the age of 41. The reason I'll be able to "retire" next year is because I spend far less than $60,000 per year. I'm budgeting $30,000/year for retirement, which is more than I actually need. Even once I reach FI, I will not stop working altogether, since I think age 42 is a bit too young to be put out to pasture playing shuffleboard all day. My initial semi-retirement plans are to go abroad for a couple of months (spring 2017), do a fellowship because of personal interest (starting summer 2017), and afterward work when and where I'm inclined to. Not sure what I'll be doing in five years yet. Will figure it out when the time gets closer. 🙂

 

[criticalelement]

This. I chose the second method, which I would argue is significantly faster and easier than the first.

I will be done saving for retirement this year at the age of 41. The reason I'll be able to "retire" next year is because I spend far less than $60,000 per year. I'm budgeting $30,000/year for retirement, which is more than I actually need. Even once I reach FI, I will not stop working altogether, since I think age 42 is a bit too young to be put out to pasture playing shuffleboard all day. My initial semi-retirement plans are to go abroad for a couple of months (spring 2017), do a fellowship because of personal interest (starting summer 2017), and afterward work when and where I'm inclined to. Not sure what I'll be doing in five years yet. Will figure it out when the time gets closer. 🙂

How much have you saved?

 

[QofQuimica]

How much have you saved?

Following the 4% withdrawal rule, you need ~25x your yearly expenses in order to be FI. In my case, that translates into a requirement for $750,000 in savings - not a negligible amount, but nowhere near the astronomical nest eggs that sometimes get bandied about here, either.

 

[GA8314]

Well done. 👍

Exactly what I did. Paid everything off while maximizing my retirement portfolio. I caught a lot of grief for paying off my house, student loan debt, cars, etc... early on.
To me, that was a guaranteed return on investment vs. hoping you would get 5-8% in the market.



Hey, hey now Salty... Let's not forget my stint in purgatory... AKA----> BFE anesthesia.

I'm making up for lost times bro!

This 7 foot dump we've had in the Sierras this past week has certainly helped make ends meet.

I don't think you necessarily need to retire early in order to lead a healthier, happier life.
At the same time, you shouldn't be killing it every second you get. At some point in everybody's life the body starts to break down.
For some that have been in the grind, it may be physically impossible to do the things they've always wanted to do at retirement age.

Moderation along the way in order to enjoy life here and now is always key.

I love the bold. Exactly what I am doing. I do lease a vehicle, however. It's like my one luxury and it's not even that fancy (but it is nice).

In 3 years I'll be debt free, and I'm already maximizing (as of like this month......lol) my savings. Loans will be ancient history in 3 years tops, and the only thing slowing that down is some cool opportunities to put income into some accounts (cash balance program and 401k) pretax.

I'm doing this sh.t now so I don't HAVE to later. I like my job a lot and plan on working in some capacity through age 65. Full bore until 60 at least. But, we'll see, as priorities change.

I like to say that I am, and will continue to "live like an engineering manager at a medium sized company". I live comfortably, and one of the things that make that so is knowing I'm putting cash away and taking care of my loans. Living like an engineering manager (with some nice vacations each year) makes me feel good about things going forward. What happens beyond our control happens. Oh well. I'm not going to squander this opportunity which we've all worked so hard for. I appreciate it, love it, but will not squander the opportunity that making what we make can do for you......

 

[PhysicianOnFIRE]

Another vote in the Under 50 category, although not ASAP. I think those should be mutually exclusive.

Early in my career I figured I would work until 60 or so, building up a portfolio approaching or exceeding the 8-figure barrier.

Last year (9th year post-residency), I became a bit disillusioned studying for a MOCA exam that seemed to have very little relevancy to my day-to-day practice. After months of study, sacricing personal / family time, and a passing grade on the exam, I was informed I didn't actually need to take it, but thanks anyway, now sign up for MOCA 2.0 (another forum topic, I know).

About that same time, I discovered Mr. Money Mustache, the White Coat Investor, and Bogleheads. I got my finances better organized and started to wonder if I really had to work another 20 years. Long story short, once I finally let go of a one-time dream home last fall (we moved away years ago when the hospital went bankrupt), I became financially independent.

I still enjoy my job most days but I like my days / weeks off quite a bit more. I'm anticipating retiring in my mid-to-late forties with at least 50x expenses for my family of 4. We spend a bit more than $60k per year, but much less than most physicians.

 

[urge]

Last year (9th year post-residency), I became a bit disillusioned studying for a MOCA exam that seemed to have very little relevancy to my day-to-day practice. After months of study, sacricing personal / family time, and a passing grade on the exam, I was informed I didn't actually need to take it, but thanks anyway, now sign up for MOCA 2.0 (another forum topic, I know).

You actually studied for that test?

 

[pgg]

You actually studied for that test?

I would too. Some of us can't help it ...

 

[PhysicianOnFIRE]

I would too. Some of us can't help it ...

Why wouldn't I study? I like to do well on exams. And pay just once. Would I have passed with little to no study? Probably, but this is one area where I am risk averse.

Studying was tedious though, and the knowledge required to get the right answers was pretty irrelevant to my practice.

 

[sevoflurane]

Following the 4% withdrawal rule, you need ~25x your yearly expenses in order to be FI. In my case, that translates into a requirement for $750,000 in savings - not a negligible amount, but nowhere near the astronomical nest eggs that sometimes get bandied about here, either.

750K is not even close to what I feel I need for retirement in my 40's. What happens when the market crashes? 😉

 

[BLADEMDA]

750K is not even close to what I feel I need for retirement in my 40's. What happens when the market crashes? 😉

750K x 10

 

[deltamed]

Following the 4% withdrawal rule, you need ~25x your yearly expenses in order to be FI. In my case, that translates into a requirement for $750,000 in savings - not a negligible amount, but nowhere near the astronomical nest eggs that sometimes get bandied about here, either.

So no college/school expenses for kids I assume. No vacations after you retire. If the market has a big correction you are hosed. You'll be living on about 35k a year if you are lucky. Hopefully in a low cost of living area and hopefully you will die before 75.

Its how a lot of americans live but not many physicians. If thats ok with you great. I'm aiming more for like 10 million so that
- i can take more not less vacation (since I will have more time)
- i can send my kids to college and possibly grad school (dont expect any aid if you have a nest egg)
- i can pay for unexpected medical costs and possibly more taxes since its moving towards a redistributionist society
- i can maybe leave something for my kids

 

[pgg]

What happens when the market crashes? 😉

If the market has a big correction you are hosed.

Well, not really. Presumably, regardless of age, if one is retiring and following a 4% sustainable withdrawal rate, the money isn't heavily invested in equity. A conservative, diversified portfolio (perhaps with some portion of it annuitized) has a high probability of being good forever at a 3-4% SWR. That's the whole point of the SWR being so low - the rate accounts for the possibility of market crashes, and it assumes a diversified portfolio that can be rebalanced.

The real problem with planning to retire on a bare subsistence income like that is that one can't perfectly predict future expenses. Comfortable subsistence today might be poverty in 30 years if healthcare costs explode, if your retirement home's neighborhood becomes unlivable and you need to move, if the tax code drastically changes, etc.

 

[QofQuimica]

750K is not even close to what I feel I need for retirement in my 40's. What happens when the market crashes? 😉

You mean kind of like now? 😉

I will work part time, cut back my discretionary spending, or both, and wait it out.

So no college/school expenses for kids I assume. No vacations after you retire. If the market has a big correction you are hosed. You'll be living on about 35k a year if you are lucky. Hopefully in a low cost of living area and hopefully you will die before 75.

Its how a lot of americans live but not many physicians. If thats ok with you great. I'm aiming more for like 10 million so that
- i can take more not less vacation (since I will have more time)
- i can send my kids to college and possibly grad school (dont expect any aid if you have a nest egg)
- i can pay for unexpected medical costs and possibly more taxes since its moving towards a redistributionist society
- i can maybe leave something for my kids

I don't have my own kids. I am funding my niece's and nephew's college tuitions through our state prepaid program, as well as subsidizing their other expenses by funding a 529 for each of them. They will have the same choice that I had when I was a teenager: go to one of our state schools here in FL and work PT while in school to make up any remaining cost difference, which should be relatively negligible. Or, cash out the prepaid/529 balances and take out loans for the rest if they decide they want to splurge on a fancy OOS private school. I'm making it possible for them each to get a basically free college education, but of course the ultimate decision to do so is theirs. If they choose to go to graduate school, I would certainly help them, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to have some significant skin in the game, too.

Travel does not have to be expensive inherently. I am definitely planning on multiple vacations, albeit not the type that most upper middle class Americans would choose. I like to slow travel. Meaning, I would prefer to go to another place, stay there for a month or more, and basically live there for a bit. Sometimes I work when I do this. I spent a subsidized month in Hawaii that way, for example. My next trip will be two months in Israel, staying on a kibbutz. That will cost me about $5000, but it includes extras like traveling around the country and daily Hebrew lessons.

As I said to the prior poster, if the market is down, I will either work PT to avoid having to draw down my accounts, cut back my discretionary spending, or both.

Paying for medical expenses is certainly a concern as one gets older. Since I'm relatively young, I decided to self-insure for long term care. Meaning, I actually am saving some extra money for this purpose beyond what I need to fund my retirement.

I do not intend to leave any money to members of my family when I die. Besides the fact that I will be helping them while I'm still alive as mentioned above, that is not in keeping with my values. I expect to donate the rest of my portfolio to charity.

Well, not really. Presumably, regardless of age, if one is retiring and following a 4% sustainable withdrawal rate, the money isn't heavily invested in equity. A conservative, diversified portfolio (perhaps with some portion of it annuitized) has a high probability of being good forever at a 3-4% SWR. That's the whole point of the SWR being so low - the rate accounts for the possibility of market crashes, and it assumes a diversified portfolio that can be rebalanced.

The real problem with planning to retire on a bare subsistence income like that is that one can't perfectly predict future expenses. Comfortable subsistence today might be poverty in 30 years if healthcare costs explode, if your retirement home's neighborhood becomes unlivable and you need to move, if the tax code drastically changes, etc.

Agree completely. Part of the reason I decided not to buy a house is because I did not want to be locked into a specific location for these and other reasons. I would definitely consider moving, including moving abroad, in the right circumstances. In fact, I am considering moving abroad for a while regardless, just for the fun of it. But it doesn't hurt that COL in many other countries is significantly cheaper than it is here.

 

[deltamed]

You mean kind of like now? 😉

I will work part time, cut back my discretionary spending, or both, and wait it out.


I don't have my own kids. I am funding my niece's and nephew's college tuitions through our state prepaid program, as well as subsidizing their other expenses by funding a 529 for each of them. They will have the same choice that I had when I was a teenager: go to one of our state schools here in FL and work PT while in school to make up any remaining cost difference, which should be relatively negligible. Or, cash out the prepaid/529 balances and take out loans for the rest if they decide they want to splurge on a fancy OOS private school. I'm making it possible for them each to get a basically free college education, but of course the ultimate decision to do so is theirs. If they choose to go to graduate school, I would certainly help them, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to have some significant skin in the game, too.

Travel does not have to be expensive inherently. I am definitely planning on multiple vacations, albeit not the type that most upper middle class Americans would choose. I like to slow travel. Meaning, I would prefer to go to another place, stay there for a month or more, and basically live there for a bit. Sometimes I work when I do this. I spent a subsidized month in Hawaii that way, for example. My next trip will be two months in Israel, staying on a kibbutz. That will cost me about $5000, but it includes extras like traveling around the country and daily Hebrew lessons.

As I said to the prior poster, if the market is down, I will either work PT to avoid having to draw down my accounts, cut back my discretionary spending, or both.

Paying for medical expenses is certainly a concern as one gets older. Since I'm relatively young, I decided to self-insure for long term care. Meaning, I actually am saving some extra money for this purpose beyond what I need to fund my retirement.

I do not intend to leave any money to members of my family when I die. Besides the fact that I will be helping them while I'm still alive as mentioned above, that is not in keeping with my values. I expect to donate the rest of my portfolio to charity.


Agree completely. Part of the reason I decided not to buy a house is because I did not want to be locked into a specific location for these and other reasons. I would definitely consider moving, including moving abroad, in the right circumstances. In fact, I am considering moving abroad for a while regardless, just for the fun of it. But it doesn't hurt that COL in many other countries is significantly cheaper than it is here.

Thats fine- if you dont have kids,do not intend to leave any money to family or fully fund private education and do not own property (and rent very cheaply) its possible.

That being said even paying for health insurance, rent, food, a couple "cheap" vacations, transportation will be tough on this portfolio. And you are even admitting taking locums to "subsidize" these vacations so thats not truly retired.

My question is if you are truly now living on that level of expenses (35-40k a year) how do you not build up a huge portfolio? Im only 6 years out and have significantly more than 750k (and my expenses are way higher plus paid off debt). Thats a lot you are going to give to charity.

 

[QofQuimica]

Thats fine- if you dont have kids,do not intend to leave any money to family or fully fund private education and do not own property (and rent very cheaply) its possible.

That being said even paying for health insurance, rent, food, a couple "cheap" vacations, transportation will be tough on this portfolio. And you are even admitting taking locums to "subsidize" these vacations so thats not truly retired.

My question is if you are truly now living on that level of expenses (35-40k a year) how do you not build up a huge portfolio? Im only 6 years out and have significantly more than 750k (and my expenses are way higher plus paid off debt). Thats a lot you are going to give to charity.

I'm only 1.5 years out and quitting at 2.5 years out. 🙂

The argument you make about not being "truly retired" is the same one people make to Mr. Money Mustache, who retired from his engineering McJob at the age of 30, and now does carpentry "locums" when and because he feels like it. IMO, the problem with this argument is twofold: one, people's idea of what it means to be "retired" is relatively and unnecessarily narrow. Why, particularly for very young retirees, is the only alternative to FT work doing no work at all? Why not do sporadic PT work you enjoy even if it's not particularly remunerative, just because you enjoy doing it? Second, and along the same lines, even if I conceded that doing no work at all is the ultimate retirement scenario, I feel that age 42 is a bit young to be put out to pasture playing shuffleboard all day. In other words, I don't want to spend the next 50-60 years doing absolutely nothing productive. I just don't want to HAVE to work, and especially not under someone else's terms. I think we can all agree that there's a big difference between working because you want to and working because you have to.

Many early retirees prefer not to say they are "retired" just because of this very disconnect in meaning where people equate "retirement" with "doing no productive work for the rest of your life." Call it FI then, if you prefer. Because the problem is that most docs and other driven Type As are not going to be happy spending decades of their prime doing nothing productive....

 

[Mman]

Personally I am aiming for having the financial ability to retire at age 50 with $5-7M in retirement assets (excluding property). Does that mean I will? Probably not. I like what I do and I will probably try to dial it back down to half time or so at that point depending on how things go. I could see enjoying part time work for another 10 or 15 years at that point to continue to allow my savings to compound while not drawing them down, but also having plenty of time for travel and leisure.